Ep. 2267 Jessica Dupuy interviews Ali Schmidt | Barolo Barbaresco World Opening

I'm super excited to talk all things Barolo and Barbara. I've gotten to go twice for really brief trips, and I would say it's definitely the part of Italy that I've fallen most in love with. I love mountain backdrops, fog, indulgently decadent food. So I was destined to love Piedmont. Oh my gosh. Sounds like you're filling out kinda like your profile for, like, a dating app. Like, If you love mountains, fog, and I'm getting structured red wines, structured red wine. Hey, y'all. I'm Jessica Duppuis. Guest hosts for a special series on the Barolo and Barbarresco World Oak twenty twenty five presented by Land Marks. This fourth edition of BBWO will showcase the latest releases of twenty twenty one, Barolo, and twenty twenty two Barbarresco wines from Piedmont, and takes place in Austin, Texas on March twenty fifth. Join me in the heart of Texas as we delve into the experiences and insights about the terroir of the Longue region and its star grape variety, Nebulaiola. We'll talk to Smollier's and retailers from the key markets of Austin, Dallas, Houston, and beyond about the alluring wines of the barolo and barbaresco regions. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you rate your podcasts. Note, this series is funded by the European Union. View and opinions expressed are however those of the podcast participants only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union or of the granting authority. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them. Alright. Well, Ali Schmidt, thank you so much for joining us on the Italian wine podcast. I am thrilled to have you. If for no other reason, then because we're good buddies, and I haven't seen you literally in forever. Too long. Yeah. Too long. So I'm glad we get to catch up in this way. I'm super excited to talk all things, Barolo and Barbara. I've gotten to go twice for really brief trips and I would say it's definitely the part of Italy that I've fallen most in love with. I love mountain backdrops, fog, indulgently decadent food. So I was destined to love Piedmont. Oh my gosh. Sounds like you're filling out kinda like your profile for, like, a dating app. Like, if you love mountains, fog, and I'm kidding Structured red wines. Structured red wine. Well, before we jump into that, Why don't we talk a little bit about you and who you are? Tell us where you're from, how you got into wine, and then we will wind our way to the mountains and fog. Love it. I'm from Austin originally. I left to go to college in Chicago and then kinda mosed my way back afterwards, which is when I decided maybe I should stop pretending to be interested in an office job and just give in to my love of being in restaurants and being around food and hospital fertility. So when I moved back, I kind of landed in Austin at a really great time when Boris just opened. Ochiko had just opened. It was like a very, I think, like, vibrant, exciting time. And I started working at Ochiko, which has just this incredible, like, eight week, one hour a week, wine one zero one course, which is kind of crazy that they, like, invested in that. And going through that, really just kinda sparked this, like, oh my gosh. It's everything I love. It's food, it's travel, it's interesting characters, it's storytelling. So I decided like, okay. Well, if I'm gonna focus on restaurants, which I love, maybe wine could be a fun little area within that that I can specialize in. So started pursuing studying. And fortunately, there were a lot of great, really passionate people at Uchiko at the time, so we had a fun study group where we'd meet up and eat too much cheese and talk about what we read that week. Good times. And then after being there for five years, I went to Jefferies to be a captain, Samugae, and that was just kind of this amazing opening up of the world of wine and tasting crazy wines. I'd only read about and kind of seeing, a really serious wine program, and also all the, like, work and organization and, inventory that goes into maintaining that. So that was a great year. And then I ended up moving over to Imran rye to become the AGM, kind of the classic sawmager, manage the wine program, some on the floor, and also manage the restaurant. And then I've been with him for seven and a half years. So now we have ten restaurants, one, retail kind of a specialty grocer and wine shop, and I'm the wine director for the group. For all of them. It's so fun watching having watched your trajectory in Austin, but also, you know, of those ten, a couple of them are in San Antonio. So you're kind of straddling both cities. Yeah. So almost exactly a fifty fifty split. So we have five in Austin, Imran Rai, the o g, Hestia, which is live fire, fine dining, which has our most kind of in-depth wine program and Psalm team, Conji, Azove, and then the newly reopened Cali Mocho. And then in San Antonio, we are first kind of foreign to San Antonio was I think twenty, maybe late twenty twenty one. We opened Ladino, which was Eastern Mediterranean food with the fun, kind of Greek Lebanese focus list. And then this last year, we had kind of a big push and we opened pullman market, which is essentially like a Texas focused Texas celebrating grocery store that also has four restaurants attached with the goal of kind of all of them working as like an ecosystem to, you know, source really strategically, put our dollars into Texas farms, and then also kind of reduce waste through the utilization of both like grocery and restaurant operations. So those restaurants are Ecedor, which is, Texas fine dining, Nikosi, which is a super cool, like, immersive dessert tasting menu that has, like, a cocktail wine pairing and really, really exciting non alcoholic pairings that I'm pumped about. And then Fife and Faro, which is Italian, and has a, like, ninety eight percent Italian list and Mosquiche, which is Sonoran Mexican that has a really a wine list focused on Mexico, Argentina, Chile, mostly. Okay. So you've been busy and you have to know the world of wine if you're the director for all of these. And I just wanna say something, like, we're gonna be talking a lot about Austin, but I feel like there needs to be a plug for San Antonio in terms of what a vibrant community that town is. And with restaurant concepts like this, I mean, it's just there's so much to experience. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I've been so impressed with the San Antonio's someways that I've gotten to meet so far, and I know that there are more that I haven't met, but it's a really passionate community of focused, talented someways, doing cool things. And What I love is there's also I feel like a lot of it feels in that some ways just like a very inclusive wine scene of there's less, like, stratification of, like, you know, I would say, like, little death is a great example of, like, it's a natural wine focused wine bar, but they also have, like, insanely cool classic wines there too. Like, you could take your grandmother there, you could take your best friend there, and, like, anyone would find something really delicious to drink. And I think kind of across the board, that's the case. So they're really savvy, well rounded, wineless meant to appeal to, like, a broad community. I'll also see people in San Antonio drink a lot of wine. Like, at our Austin restaurants, we we have passionate wine lovers coming in and drinking wine, but I would say as far as, like, the amount of bottles being drunk every night. I think San Antonio is higher. Really? Yeah. Because, like, just kind of the I at least take, like, maybe it's the people at our restaurants to track, but, like, people are coming in and they really view a bottle of wine as, like, part of going out to eat. And that seems to be like more of the average whereas in Austin, it's it's this total mixed bag of you've got some tables exploring zero proof options. You have some tables nerding out on cocktails, others that are passionate about wine. But just kind of the view, I think, of, like, wine as being part of a meal seems to be a little bit higher in San Antonio. More ingrained in that culture there. I think that's really interesting to notice. Well, I'm curious, you know, you let off with the fact that you've been to Piamonte or Piedmont, And I'm just curious kind of, you know, as we're talking a little bit about Barolo and barbaresco specifically, where do those regions kind of sit in your mind in terms of how they resonate as regions that you know and love, or maybe you don't know and love them. I'm kidding. Why are they important? What makes them special? Yeah. I think they're I would say, like, one just insanely high quality across the board. Obviously, the docG process, you know, creates at its core. Hopefully, that's the goal of docG's a really high quality rigorous process for making beautiful wine that people are proud to say is from this area. And I think for the most part that really does come through as a consumer and a some way experience. So super high quality, I think They're also have led the charge on some exciting developments in an Italian one. I would say, like, right now all of the I feel like I'm seeing way more single crew bottlings from Barolo than ever before, and just this really intense focus on terroir and what village and what crew is this coming from. And how does this express differently than our plot a mile down the road? And I think more so than anyone else in Italy, they're kind of leading the charge on, like, micro specific terroir and celebrating that. Okay. Yeah. Well, I like that too. I feel like they're definitely one of the regions in Italy that really kind of drilled in into that. First. I don't wanna start a competition. Yeah. A lot of people are doing amazing things, and this is one thing that Piedmont is doing really well too. And I guess too, it's resonated globally. Right? Like, people are very aware of it. So I think that's a good point. Well, obviously, with those two regions, we're really talking about one grape specifically. So can you kind of tell me just from a, you know, a sommelier perspective, a wine, you know, professional perspective, What is Nebula to you? Like, what does it mean and what does it kind of reflect in terms of your experience? I mean, you're having to work with wines from all over the world. But where does Nebula sit for you? Oh, it's definitely up there in terms of grapes. I'd like to personally outside of work. I love drinking, and I think that comes down mostly to it's like very unique and very, like, piercing aroma. There's really, like, nothing that replicates the, like, combination of, like, floral, fruit, minerality, savory, herbal component, and is as, like, precise in its delivery of those. I think for me, it's that, like, haunting perfume that makes it one of my favorite groups, and then that's combined with a wine that has in a really amazing place on the table as far as, like, really vivid acidity, high tannin structured, but still comes across as, like, the perception of being relatively medium, like, bodied, and living in such a hot climate here where, like, we're in our six weeks maybe of winter where I'm like, oh, should I drink a cab? I don't know. But really, like, the rest of the year, I'm seeking out you know, high acid whites and light to medium bodied reds. And I think what makes Nebula so compelling is that it has overall the impression, even though they can be fourteen five, fourteen percent alcohol, it still has the impression and kind of the weight of, like, a delicate ethereal, like, lifted beverage and to deliver that with, like, lots of complexity structure that can work with, like, fatty or heavier foods is, like, ideal for when you want to do, like, have a wowing impactful red one that doesn't mean, like, weight or heft? Yeah. I mean, I've heard somebody say, like, it's like a hippopotamus and ballerina slippers. You know what I mean? Like, it delivers so much in a this beautiful fragility and delicacy at the same time, and I agree with you. I I would say, you know, that's definitely my, like, a summer re if I'm having steak in the summertime, like, that is what I'll go to is Barillo, Barbara, because it's, like, all of those elements, but I don't feel like I'm gonna in Texas heat, I don't feel like it's gonna be too much. You know what I mean? Totally. Yeah. So I'm curious. We've talked a little bit about San Antonio Austin. I don't know if you wanna you've already talked about the fact that they are a little bit different in the way that they consume wine Can you kind of break down, like, what the appeal is for Italian wine? What's the demand and what are you seeing in terms of interest for Italian wine and then more specifically, Barolo, Barbara? Yeah. I would say in San Antonio, we're seeing a really strong demand I'll start with Fife and Faro because it's a totally Italian focused program. We do see a good amount of just kind of like order fire immediate interest in our Barillo and Barbarresco categories. So there is sort of this inherent it's not driven by us being, like, pitching those wines. The the demand is already there. Right now at five and four, we're doing a just conveniently, doing a Piedmont flight, which includes a longue Nebula Nebula, which then we're also pouring by the glass for like fourteen dollars. It's a crazy value. And I feel like that's been a really great way to kind of bring in people who maybe don't know Barroa and barbaresco already and start with just a familiarity with Nebula. But the demand, particularly from, I would say, like, you know, consumers forty and over. Like, they're familiar. They love it. They're into it. They're already eating Italian. It makes sense. Like, not a hard sell at all. There's kind of the understanding that, like, this is a natural pairing. At Ladino, it's fun because that list is focus a little bit more on, like, Greece and Lebanon, but we do have, you know, Italy touches the Mediterranean, so we lump that in. And the Barillo offerings we have there do really well. And I think it's also fun. From a very nerdy perspective, it's really fun when people are drinking Zenama for her to then have the burillo conversation, have people try those side by side. You know, you've been as a region when other people call their grape. The Borolo of Greece. So the fact that it's used, like, as a comparative standard of great respect is such a great sign. So I love people getting to try those side by side at Latino. And then at Isidore, we have a lot of interest in Brollo. It's, there are a lot of, like, richer steak and pork cuts on that menu, so it's sort of like a no brainer option pairing wise. So, yeah, lots of demand in San Antonio. In Austin, I would say we see the most demand and interest in Berlin, Barbara at Imran rye. I think we're going back to that, like, sort of instinctual eye pair Italian wine with Italian food. The pasta, Emma seems to trigger like a craving for Nebula within people. So a lot of interest there, and I think a cool note is Emmer and I does get a lot of business dinners, partially because it's located near the convention center, but that seems to be a really popular beverage. Kind of wine of choice when you're in charge of ordering for a group of eight to ten people, and maybe you don't know their wine tastes at all. I feel like our guests at MR are more likely to choose barilla than they are to choose Napacab, or Bordeaux as sort of the, like, red wine. I don't know who I'm dining with and what they enjoy, but I know they're gonna love this bottle of gorilla. Oh, and it'll work well with pasta. It'll work well with steak at the end of the meal. So we see a lot of interest in that. At Immmer Conji and Azova a little bit less. So they're a little bit more kind of vibrant, youthful spaces. So in some ways, people can lean a little bit more cocktail forward at those places, and the food can be a little bit more spicy. So I'm not sure if Nebula is, like, as natural of a pairing. And then hestia, I'd love to see us put down more bottles of Barolo and Barbara at hestia I feel like the crowd there kind of leans French and they're interested in burgundy. So I think that crossover being, you know, I feel like I know a lot of collectors who are like, I only do burgundy and Piedmont because they have so much in common as far as like incredibly deep rabbit holes. You can go down and study insanely specific kind of terroir mapping and classification. So there is a lot of crossover there. So that's one of my hopes is that we'll see a little bit more branching out from getting excited about Burgundy Cruise into getting excited about the specific vineyards of Barolla, which I haven't seen a ton of familiarity on the guest side with, like, specific vineyards yet. So I think that's, like, the next evolution of the American consumer and their love of barolo is starting to be like, You know, I love Genestra and, like, recognizing and having preferences between crews. Right. Right. Right. You know, it's like you can see maybe a steak restaurant that divides up their, you know, French bordeauxs by the specific classifications or burgundy by the different crew, things like that. And so I agree. Maybe I don't know. You're the wine director, but I don't know if you're ready yet to organize your Barillo List by MGA, or, you know, is it more just by Not, you know, not yet. Hopefully, we'll get to that volume of selections at hestia. I think I'd probably start by dividing it up between the communes and then having the FDA's under that. But gosh, hopefully someday we'll be in you can get there. It's a deep selection. So that'd be fun. Well, tell me a little bit about just briefly, we don't have to get too much into it, but, you know, hestia in particular, I feel like has kind of this because it's live fire, it does represent this kind of texasness if you will in terms of just, you know, we always we love to grill things and barbecue things and smoke things. And I'm just curious just in terms of pairing how well does that go with things like wines from these two regions? I think really well. Our kitchen definitely doesn't shy away from richness. So kind of throughout the meal, there is a lot of rich decadence to a meal that has to. So I think having kind of the one two punch of acidity and tannin works great. And maybe not the most structured styles, but I will make the case for more delicate Nebula working fairly well with Richard's seafood dishes. I think, like, you see that in the region with Vatello Tonato being, like, the ubiquitous dish everywhere in the longue. So it has to be one of our, like, signature dishes that you have to get is halibut, slow cooked, above the flame, really barely smokey, but it has a super rich kind of dauchy, bramante butter sauce. And I would say like eighty percent of our tables doing the a la carte menu get halibut and a steak cut, and they're like, what do we drink with both? So nebula to me is one of those things that can sort of straddle the line between not overshadowing or clashing with a rich decadent seafood dish and then also cutting through like a dry aged super, you know, marble, delicious rib eye. So, you know, that is a little bit I'd probably lean a little bit towards more delicate light touch if I was doing that comparison. Versus a table that was like all getting smoky grilled meats, but I do think some of the wines really have the versatility to do both and to work with vegetarian dishes. Yeah. I think that's a really good. I love me. I love going straight to surf and turf for that because it is a really good bridge. You know. So moving to the actual Barolo barbaresco world open. I've got that the BBWO coming at the end of March this year at Austin. And I'm just curious, you know, From a trade perspective, when you have different sommeliers going to events like this where you can walk around, taste these wines, meet the different producers, and there are gonna be so many that are in town. What kind of hat do you have on in terms of how you use these opportunities to kind of broaden your offerings, understand more about what's available and how it fits with the programs that you're working with, how how do you kind of go about doing that? Oh, that's a great question. I would say, like, a few fold. One, I do love tasting, like, new producers that I don't have access to yet and getting to know people. And I think when you meet and taste with someone, ideally winemaker, it's so much easier to remember and have this, like, powerful impression of the winemaker because so often winemakers are reflective of their wines, vice versa. So a really gregarious fun winemaker, you'll remember their extra diverted kind of outgoing wines and vice versa. So trying new producers and kind of exploring new things is definitely one. I would say producers that we already work with I really want to taste their crew bottlings. You know, sometimes those are offered on allocation and you might never get to try them before they go on the list. So an opportunity for you and the sommelier's in the restaurants to try them and especially try them side by side. It's just an incredible opportunity to then have those on the list and really be able to confidently speak to the different nuances between vineyards. And then three, I think the other way is, like, kind of getting an overall impression of a vintage or, like, collection of vintages. Like, I imagine most people will be pouring twenty twenty borrelos in March. So this opportunity to try you know, twenty, thirty different burritos in the same vintage side by side and kind of gather this collective understanding of what that vintage is and how it plays across different pockets or both populations. Is, I think, a really cool thing that you don't normally get when you're a tasting burrito isolated, you know, across a couple weeks from each other. That actually is big and side. I hadn't thought about it like that. But I mean, you know, like, I'll go to events like Anteprima for a particular region or things like that where they were kind of, like, releasing the collection for a particular vintage, but not everyone does have that opportunity. And I hadn't thought about it in terms of, you know, for you, not only in being able to explain to customers and consumers about here's what a vintage really does. This is what that vintage really showed. It also is, I imagine pretty great for if you're studying, which I don't know, I don't know where you are in your Sommelier, studies, but I I do know that you are a student in general in terms of, I know you like to get nerdy. So about about the topic. So I hadn't thought about it like that, but that's a really good point. I think also just for your, you know, if you can get members of your staff involved in coming to these events, they can really be really big turning points of like, I get why the world of wine is cool and, like, interesting and worth, you know, devoting your life or career too. I remember the first, like, slow wine event I went to, which was probably like twenty fourteen. I just started studying wine and just being like, wow. Like, I wasn't I was years away from purchasing wine, but kind of seeing, like, producers, their importers, buyers, guests, like, all interacting and sort of starting to understand how the different tiers affect what we have access to in which wineries get to tell their stories in other markets and how those are so told was fascinating. And really, I feel like, you know, sped up my desire to be like a part of wine professionally. So hopefully, you know, a lot of folks that are just starting their wine journey will get to step into this and see what a, like, vibrant world this is to work in and why everyone that gets into wine loves it because you're working and it's, you know, tough. I mean, there's so much to learn. It's always changing, but you're also surrounded by passionate excited people who are sharing, like, often a part of, like, their home with you. And I think Italians in particular do that with such warmth and passion that it's kind of hard not to be swept away by the magic of wine. Yeah. No. Oh, man. I like that you finished like that because it's very true. And especially for someone like yourself who's in the hospitality industry, it certainly does strike a chord when you kind of feel that from the wines that you're representing, you know? Yeah. And I think, like, for, like, I know a a lot of our younger team members, like, if they didn't grow up with parents that drank wine, like, maybe the first time they're interacting with wine is at a wine training at one of our restaurants, and it's hard to encapsulate everything that's so great about wine in a thirty minute training or one hour training, but meeting someone from a different country who has spent their life dedicated to a thing and having them pour that wine for you can be so impactful and such a short exchange. I love that. I think I wanna finish actually build on that question with this last one, which is just whether it's, you know, you're inviting some of your staff to come that may have not as much understanding of wine, but also, Barillo, Barbara, in general. What are some things that you would like for them to be able to take away? What are some things that might surprise them? What are some things that you think are exciting to discover about these wines? Oh, I don't I don't know if this is necessarily something that won't count at BBWO, but I think for people that are a little bit further in their wine journey, whether that be guests or you know, Psalms or captains, experiencing these wines with age and understanding kind of the trajectory they go through and the, like, current release Bureau and Barbara is so good right now. Like, it's so delicious and, like, you know, compared to decades past just, like, delicious and, like, ready to drink almost immediately, like, with a quick decant, like, they're showing so well, but I think it's also, like, part of our duty as sommeliers. Remember that, you know, for so long, these wines did need decades to hit their peak. And just because they're tasting so amazing right now doesn't mean that these wines aren't going to develop and build complexity over time. So I think when you can introduce people to older bottles. That's a really amazing experience. And not even just, like, super old thirty year bottles of Berlin, Barbara, because so few of us have access to those. And yes, they're, wow, and amazing. But even, like, we have twenty seventeen Albino roka, Ronki, Barbara at Isidore, and it's eight years old. So it's not a mature bottle, but it's developing and just seeing over time as those, like, truffly mushroomy notes start to, like, integrate in and build on the florals and, like, the fresh youthful fruit, like, how complex the wines can get. So I think, one interesting people to kind of the magic of these wines with age. And then not technically, borla, Barbara, but I think, longuey Nebula has just really never been better. And particularly, there are a lot of like, I think in, like, Barbara, like, Proctorito, Barbara's longue is just their declassified younger vines of Barbarresco and Elio Grosso, their longue is declassified young vines of borolo. So I think You know, in the wine world, there's kind of like I feel like two paths right now. Like one is this chasing of rare and fine and hard to get high end bottles. That's a big part of the industry, but then the other part is remembering, like, wine is just a daily, like, joy and pleasure and that there's so many joyful well priced wines that should be celebrated. And I think longue Nebbiolo is just drinking great and a really awesome way to start to understand a producer's style. So if you're new to the World Wine and you you know, want to get to know Portoito barbaresco. You've heard about their crew bottlings trying their longest. A great way to kind of start to wrap your head around the producer and get to know them. And then from there, hopefully you get to try the cruise, but if not, you can start to kind of strap laid out from your understanding of their introductory bottles. Right. I like that. That's a really good way to put it. Well, Ali, thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. I always learn so much from you and love always how you describe wines. It's made me thirsty, and we probably should have opened a bottle before we started. But thank you so much. It's good to catch up, and I will see you at BBWO. Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for listening to this special series on the Barolo and BarBaresco World opening twenty twenty five. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and rate us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Special note, This series is funded by the European Union. View and opinions expressed are however those of the podcast participants only, and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union or of the granting authority. Neither the European union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them.