Ep. 645 Nicola Lenci | Biodynamic & Organic

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Hi, everybody. Italian wine podcast celebrates its fourth anniversary this year. And we all love the great content they put out every day. Chinching with Italian wine people has become a big part of our day, and the team in verona needs to feel our love. Producing the show is not easy folks, hurting all those hosts, getting the interviews, dropping the clubhouse recordings, not to mention editing all the material. Let's give them a tangible fan hug with a contribution to all their costs. Head to Italian wine podcast dot com and click donate to show your love. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me, Monte Walden. My guest today is Nicole Lensci from Fattoria Maliano in the Tuskin Marema. Welcome. Thank you, Monty. I'm honored to be here Thank you for the opportunity. Okay. So where about is Victoria de Maliano? Victoria de Maliano, it's a family run a state in the southern part of Tuscany in a corner called Marema Tuscana. So that's actually the portion of Tuscany facing on the Mediterranean seaside area. Mhmm. So you're in the Marima. Yeah? Yeah. Marima, it's a very unique micro region of Tuscany. Because it has a very unique microclimate, especially where we are, we are on hills descending to the coastline of Argentina Peninsula and Island of Julia. So, actually, we are on a heights of two hundred and fifty meters upon the sea level, but descending to the Mediterranean sea. So we enjoy the sea breeze. The latitude is very different from, the other well known part of winemaking area in Tuscany. We are southern and Canty more than one hundred and fifty kilometers. So, actually, the expression of the wines are very different. So a big capability of ripeness of our fruit thanks to the sun but as well the structure of our wines is really driven by the minerality thanks to a very peculiar composition of the soil. Being so close to the coast, it has a medium density. There is a nice percent of clay, but mainly it's made by white rocks from fossil origin in Italian called literally means skeleton. So you can imagine there is a big capability of draining and a great expression of a structure. So the combination of the soil and the combination of the constant sea breeze coming from the Mediterranean, allowed us to express a unique style of tuscan wine. And I like to describe Marima as the Mediterranean corner of Tuscany. So, obviously, we are well known for red wines, but we are also exploring in the last fifteen years, typical indigenous white grapes. From the area. Ansonica, Vermentino. We are doing a very good Rosato. So I like to consider, Marima Toscan as well a modern corner of Tuscany because the potential are really, really important from indigenous red grapes as a sangiovese, which is a more leano Discansano, DOCG. International grapes variety especially the borderless and the Sierra. But as well as I mentioned, white grapes. So I think the potential of the territory are really, really unique. And they can be considered a bridge in between old world and new world because the fruit is so ripe and approachable that makes these wines able to drink by themselves as well or mainly. They are not related only to old world palate. And they also have the beautiful characteristic to be gastronomic and with a high freshness. So that's mainly in simple words, the characteristic of this micro region called. Okay. I'm gonna ask you about your father, but he was the one that founded the estate Is that correct? Yeah. It's correct. Agostino is the founder. He's still the boss, actually, and we are work together. Obviously, just a question then before he became a winemaker. So before he was a wine producer, he was a shoemaker. He was a he has a big manufacturer, factory still in Tuscany about shoes. So that's another very Italian business. He had a very good success in his past life for twenty five years. He joined the the industry, and then he had a good opportunity to sell in a right moment in nineteen ninety six. So that's how we became, I'm not saying reach, but able to waste the fortune in the wine business. And, yeah, you know, in Italian, there is a a a a way of saying you can become a millionaire in the wine business when you start as a billionaire. So that's the only way you can. And, at the time of the shoe business, it was a world traveler. He traveled the world for more than two hundred days per year. So I always say that the best way to be indulgent with your have when you work that hard around the world is to enjoy very good restaurants and very good bottle of wines. So that's how we started to be in touch with the good personality personalities in the wine business. And, when he found that he had the opportunity to rebuild his life, he started to travel Tuscany to found the right place to realize his dream. So just because it's a great French wine lover, which is kind of unique for an Italian. He started to find the region where he could plant diverse grape and express a new way of being tuscan. Any thought you found in, in Marima for all the opportunity and the potential unexpressed of the land. But you're interesting because you've got both, you talk about, your father and his international outlook and the international varieties that he planted, but you have local varieties as well. Can you just go through first of all, the international ones? And then we'll talk about the wines that you make. Absolutely. So, first of all, when my father planted, I mean, selected the the land and he start to plant new vines, he had the very good tips by one of the most iconic, winemaker of the eighties and nineties. It was Jacob Motakis. And Jacob Motakis came here and says to my father, here, you got rocks. You got different temperature between night and day with very warm day. You got the water. So if you don't plant Sierra, you are a silliman. Obviously, we follow the advice because the guy, he know, he knew what he did. So this era found one of the most, unique climate to grow and to express, a Mediterranean style of Sierra. And as well, there are the condition to grow Cabernet Frank, Cabernet Vasvignon and Merlo thanks to the very rocky and grainy, characteristic of the soil. So let's say that we are able to express these international grapes but with a prominent fruit of Marima. So our target is always to grow international grapes. We are able to tell you the characteristic of Marema. Okay. So let's go through some of the Let's do the international varieties first, and then we'll come back because obviously you have some local varieties too. So let's start with, let's start with the red wines. What what about your Marema toscana, you mentioned, the sira is Perenzo. Exactly. Perenzo is a very boutique production from our state. Only eight thousand bottles, but I think it's very identitory of our wine production. But especially well, and the most iconic wines that we produce, and it's also the wines that has been internationally recognized as one of the most important of the coast is, That's a literally a bottle blend from Ma Rema. We blend in almost the same percentage. Kevin But, we like to be inspired by the tradition of the master of these grapes. So we've unified and age all the grapes separately to create the blend every year. So our spot is to follow the same style every year. Obviously, every vintage is different, but it's important to try to build up the same wine every year. So poggio bestiale, it's a wine, which international grapes, but it's made to match typical tuscan dishes as a wild boar, land, gamey foods. So very, very interesting. What about the aging for Poggio Bestiale? Is it in a barique or, in in Tono? Or Let's say that, for all of our, international grapes, we do, temperature control fermentation in steel, and then we use medium toasted French oak from Allia Forest two hundred twenty five liters of capacity. So typical Barrick. The twenty percent are new. The eighty percent are from second and third passage. So we think that our wines then it just some time to breathe and express the complexity, not really to be influenced by the oak taste, especially because we also believe very much in the bottle aging. Thanks to the high acidity of our, of our soil. So the spot of the state with is to have a very important wine with aging capability, but ready to drink now. Hey, guys. This is a brief intermission to give a shout out to our new sponsor, Federal Wine. The largest wine store in Italy since nineteen twenty. We are delighted to have them on board and thank them for their generous support and our new t shirts. Find out more on Italian wine podcast dot com. Now back to the show. So, yeah, it's interesting that you're going easy on the oak because your wines are very drinkable almost from the from the start. And, your your strategy there, I think, is really is is really working. What about white wine? So white wine for us are becoming really strategic. So since the very first vintage in two thousand one, after four years of growing vines. We've been out with the Morelino Discansano San Jose DOCG, the but as well, the, you know, So at the beginning, was pretty weird to have a Vermentino in Tuscany, but we cannot consider Marima as the other part of Tuscany. Because as I mentioned before, We have a very unique climate. So the latest ripe grape are very vocated. And the Vermentino needs time to rip properly and express the fruit but as well it needs to be influenced by the sea breeze to get the volume and salinity. So if you think about Vermont, it's very common in all the region faced into the Iranian sea side area as course, provence, Sardinia, liguria. So why not here in Marima toscana? And since the beginning, Palatura, Vermentino was a success and is it has become one of the most strategic wine for us. So thanks to the success of the Vermentino, and not not talking only about, Fatore de Maliano, Vermentino, but as well, the regional Vermentino. The public started to understood that Marima is not only a place where we produce big red wines. So they've become ready to explore new white grapes from the area. We also started to plant Antonica which is another regional grape of the family of insomnia and is a typical insular grape. We have the insula, the isle of, gio, the peninsula of Argentina, and comparing to the Vermont. It's a very salty, dry, and, and round style of white wine, less aromatic, but very grassy, very salty. Yeah. Gotta just going back to the Vermont. I've got a question. When you planted, you planted at a very high density of six thousand four hundred vines per per hectare. Was the idea there to get smaller yields per grapevine? Yeah. Exactly. So that's the way we are managing the vines here. So there is a maximum production of, on the Vermont one kilos of grapes per plant maximum. So our spot always was to produce quality rather than quantity. So think about we have almost fifty hectares of vines, but we produce two hundred and fifty thousand bottles per year. So being in a in a region with a lack of water and being in a region with rocky soil, you have to think also that we run our state in organic. So we don't want to incentive the production with, not allow the method. So for us, Devonino, it's a quality expression of white wine from Tuscany. So that's why we are incentive, the competition of the vines, to get more structure in the fruit. And getting deeper roots, I guess, because they have to compete. Don't they when they're so close together. Absolutely. I need to go very deeper in the soil to get the water and together with the water, all the mineral nutrients. The verification method, creole maceration. So, cold temperature maceration to try to extract in the best way, in the gentle way, all the aromas, and the typical fruit of the Vermontino from Marima. Then we keep it in contact with finalists since the bottle in time. So almost three months. So that's the way to have a juicy vermantino, with nice fruits, but keeping the crispiness of the Mediterranean touch. Okay, Nicole. What would be a good local dish for that particular wine? What's your favorite food with that wine? So the interesting aspect of Palatura, it says structure of Vermentino, but driven by the fruit. So you can play around a little bit. You can easily match with the typical blue fish of, the Iranian seed that we have in front of our hills, like anchovies, or the typical, orata sea bass white fish to enlarge the freshness. But as well, you can match with the white meat of the region, which is not chicken, but rabbit. What about the Ansonica Brisi? Ansonica Brisi, it's a new project of our estate. I mentioned before that we experimented Brisiah and Sonica. That was our original production of Ansonica. So Brisiah, it's very much in factoria de Maliano's style. So creo maceration and, temperature control, fermentation is still, it's crisp and fresh. It's more related to the historical and traditional vinification of the grape of Ansonica because you gotta know that Ansonica here, it's recognized as a countryside grape. So before ten years ago, nobody was labeling it, but everybody was growing it at home. It's a grape with very thick skin and low acidity. So traditionally as a great structure, not much performance, but very saline. So the maceration, always been a typical process of unification. So we did creo maceration as well, prefermentative, but for one hundred hours. So not anymore twenty four, but one hundred. And then we experimented, a natural fermentation for this wine. So after this till for the creo maceration, we put in cement egg shaped vats where the antonica is starting a spontaneous fermentation without temperature control. And it's produced only in one thousand two hundred bottles. So it's really, really, really, a boutique production. And it's a structure white wine. It has a slightly touch of ten inch. But especially shown a great mineral profile, very Saline, a lot of plum and, white apple. So it's a structure white wine, but with low charcoal, only twelve percent. You can have fun with this wine, especially with a typical toscana antipasti, even the charcuterie called cuts, and especially fresh cheese, pecorino. It's a very gastronomic white wine. Okay. Let's talk about the rosato. So rosato, it's a wine that we produced since two thousand ten. It's called Elario. And with this rosato, we wanna match the two souls of our family, the inspiration of, drinking French wines and the characteristic of Marima terroir. So since we are on beautiful hills descending on the coast, we enjoy the Seabreeze, we thought there were very good condition to produce a provençal style of Rosato, many characteristic in common with that region, especially expressed by the spontaneous plants growing in our surroundings. So we dedicate a single portion of the vineyard of San Jose with the best exposition to the coast for an earliest harvest. So we pick up the grapes twelve, fifteen days in advance to keep the acidity very crisp, very fresh. And then we bring it to the seller and we squeeze it very softly. So maceration time, less than three hours, and we divide in steel. So it looks like, provencal color but it's shown the structure of the sangiovese from Marima, which is not only tannin and freshness, but mainly, juicy ripe fruit. So it's a sangiovese day. It's a rosato that you can match with, again, typical Italian antipasti, prosciutto bruschetta. It's fun. It's fruity, but a very nice touch of salinity as well. Okay. Let's go on to the, the reds. Let's start with the, So, Sierra Perez, so I mentioned before, in our conversation, how we started to produce it. Thanks to the advice of, mister Jacob Motakis. And since the beginning, we've been, amazed by the the results. So that's why we blended the serum, not only for a hundred percent Sierra label called the parents, but as well for our Muralino Discansano DOC. So our Sara, it's very particular. It's not a needle and a syrah. So it's mainly focused on the typical herbal scent of the Mediterranean surrounding. So okay. It has a little bit of pepper, but it's mainly built on the scent of mint, licorice, olives, black olives, at the fruit. It's ripe, but it's never overripe. So it's a kind of syrah that you can easily pop up the bottle and drink it. Still fermented. And, for the international grapes, we use the same unification, technique and, aging process. So eighty percent of used barrels, twenty percent of new oak. And the peninsula, I think it's a very versatile Sierra, which is showing freshness, minerality, and it's a modern style of Sira. And Perenzo, it's a dedication to my grandfather. His name was Enzo, and it was a great Sira lover. He's always pushed my father to produce a Sira hundred percent. And finally, when we released, he didn't have the chance to taste it because he passed away. So we dedicated the the whites to him. And on the label, you can see the tear of the family for the departing of the grandfather. Okay. Nice story. Tell us about the Roso Altisi, which is a cabinet front. What makes that special? Yes. So, I already talked about yeah. I talked about Poggio Bestiale, which is a blend of Savignon of Franco Merlo. And as I as I mentioned, we we do the verification and the aging process separately. So that's allowed us, every vintage to taste the different barrels of hundred percent grape. And every every vintage we've been surprised by the cabinet franc. So we started to plant new vines to create this label. Fifty percent are coming from new vines, fifty percent of the juice from the poggio bestiale vineyard. So we realized that this cabinet Frank was unique because was really telling you the characteristic of Marima Tuscana because the company Frank is able to ripe very properly and finally express a red juicy fruit. Typical of, cherry, cassis, red berries. So that's, in my opinion, made this wine very Marima Tuscana style. And as well, it has a nice balsamic note given by the terroir. So I consider the Altsi, not only a wine for Cabernale lover, but a wine for fine wine drinker. So that's makes special in my opinion for this wine. Okay. Portio bestiale. Portio bestiale. It's our, brand. It's the flagship of our states, especially in terms of review and, international press. It's a blend it's a bordeaux blend from Marima toscana. So, again, you got the structure, you got the spiciness, but the fruit it's always predominant in the character of the wine. And that makes this big blend special because, obviously, it can stay in the bottle in your cellar as long as you want. In between twenty five, thirty years, but now it's ready to drink. So you can really enjoy the balance of this wine. And the is also the name of the crew when it coming from. Which is a a single vineyard with the best best exposition to the coastline and to the sea breeze. So for this wine, not only the ripeness is important. But it's especially the combination in between the mineral structure and the typical spiciness of the carbonates, which is a which are a very aromatic in this in this, wine. So probably literally means the Hill side of the beast because, when my father bought this land, it's in the middle of nowhere surrounding by woods. And in nighttime, infested by wild boar. So it was already called the hillside of the beast by the people of the village. So when we started to plant with those big rocks, very low quantity per hectares, we said this is the hillside of the beast. We need to keep the name. And it's a wine that you can match with barbecue and with beautiful, recipe for tasty tasty meat. I've got a little question about when you're doing the blend, when you've just done the fermentation, do you age the different grape varieties differently or in different ogle. Do you blend soon after winemaking is finished and, and have everything sort of homogeneous? How do you how do you do it? So, as I said before, after the steel fermentation, we select the grape to dedicate in single barrels and to age separately. And, mainly, we are, let's say, very flexible because in this region, in our vines, every vintage has a different results. So one of the ones that need less New Oak. It's probably the Merlo. So Merlo, it's mainly used in, old barrels, in the oldest barrels, and the both cover needs are dedicated to the newest. But that's an approximate steam because we are not so tied to our recipe to realize the wine. You gotta know that, the different parcels and the different are are very tight to the harvest. So they express themselves differently every vintage. So the hard work is always to try to find the same, results at the end of the process. Okay. Tell us about the, which is a hundred percent sangiovese. And it's another one of your concrete egg wines. Yeah. So we work all the San Giovanni. So both scenario and Moreno in a cement for the aging process. So for the scenario, we do still fermentation at control temperature. After the fermentation, we use, in this case, big cement tank for the aging roots. Why? Because with the scenario, we want to enlarge and to point out the unique style of sangiovese from Marima, which is different from the other part of Tuscany. Why? Because here, our sangiovese, it's really easy to approach and fragrant in the fruit. So probably it has a little less tenants and the freshness. It's really driven by the minerality. So it has a slightly it has a slightly touch of a salinity. So that helps us to use the cement because the cement is keeping a little oxidation during the aging process that have to express the fruit in the most fragrant way. So to obtain the structure for scenario, we didn't use any yoke, but we decided to make a selection in a single vineyard. So the sangiovese for scenario, it's coming from the poggio bestiale vineyard where we have less production per hectares and less production per vines. Okay. Nicole, last, the last one is don't know how you pronounce it. It's a Morolino de cansano, and it's called Hiba or Heba, which is mainly sangiovese. Absolutely. So heba, it's even the more important one for us because it's the typical docG expression of sangiovese. So it's the unique style of sangiovese from Marima toscana, and it's the forty percent of our total production. So it's a sangiovese, which is not a wine only for the sangiovese lover. Which is more the the scenario, but it's a wine for wine drinkers as we are. So for people who are drinking wine every day, and it's a wine very versatile. You can match with everything. You can drink by self. There is a ninety five percent of Sanjay, and a five percent of Sira in the blend. So I mentioned before how much the Sira is, unique and located in the area, so much that we decided to blend with the sangiovese DOCG. Because this era, it's very romantic. It's very spicy, but it's not rusting. So it's interacting very well with the freshness of the sangiovese. So hereby, it's the wine that we love to drink every day. Even in the summertime, you can keep it in the fridge and drink as an aperitivo because it's made without oak. And it's very, very aromatic in terms of crunch, red fruits. It's very enjoyable and the name is inspired by our tradition. Because Heba was the name of the village, Maliano where we are sighted during the etruscan era. So the population before Romans They were settled here and the village was called Eva. So that's why on the label, you can find, an etruscan goddess image found in excavation in the surroundings of the village. So I always say that with this label, we are trying to communicate the philosophy of the state to be inspired by the tradition, but shown in a modern way. Yeah. Very well described. I've tried that one. I think, you know, in London, I was actually, you know, friends with in London and, who love that, the real wine lovers. And, I hadn't had many of your wines before, and, it's certainly very rare. So listen, thanks very much. Term, for explaining, in great detail, the wines of Fattoria di Dimalliano, it's an area of the of Tuscany that I think is still a little bit, ignored. And, you're obviously looking to change that. So we wanna say thanks, Michola. And, wish you every success and a and a good harvest this season. Okay? Take care. Thank you, Monty. Thank you for the opportunity, and I'm looking forward to see the wines of Fatore di Paliano all around the world. Thank you for the chance. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianwine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.