Ep. 247 Leonardo Raspini (Tenuta Argentiera) on Bolgheri wines and agronomy

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. This podcast is brought to you by Native Grape Odyssey. Native Grape Odyssey is an educational project financed by the European Union to promote European wine in Canada, Japan, and Russia. And joy. It's from Europe. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Montewooden. My guest today is Leona Doraspini from Tenuta Arrentierra. Hello, Charles Washington. She's in the Bullgreed Region on the Tuscan Coast. Welcome. Thank you very much. So, Leonardo, tell me a little bit about the Adzienda Argentina. First of all, the name Jantian. Yeah. Agantara means silver mine. This is a place where the people, the ancient people found that some, minerals, very important for their life. This means in particular, their chuscant. Is that is that why call it the colony, metallica. Corilina, metallica is very not far from here. Just just in, in, not in, by road, but, just to by her, there there are only twenty kilometers. So this means that these are can I have the influences in terms of, minerals, in terms of, soils due to the these kind of rocks? And and also metal. Yeah. Metro silver. I think. It's not a copper. Copper. Iron. I was, one of the places where etrascan people find these minerals. And this is why Argentina take this name twenty years ago when, started. Okay. Because we're in a place where there were abundance of these minerals in the past, of course. Okay. So when did you join? I joined Argentina just six months ago. So I'm very, very new in Argentina, but I work the year in the area. For a lot of time twenty years ago. So I'm Tuscane, and I'm very You're Tuscane? Yeah. I'm Tuscane. I'm Tuscane, not Tuscane, of course. Where were you born? Where were you born in in in the floors close to Flores. Oh, so you're born in the north? In the south of Florence close to Chis of Darno is the name of this little village. So in the on the road for Aritzo from from Florence. So that's sort of the high key empty area. Now you're closer to the coast. We're actually on right on the coast. We've got a fantastic view here Yeah. Off the coast. And so what's your what are you the winemaker, the a Viticulturist. What did you train for? I'm a agronomist. And I started when I started I started with the the eco physiological part, and I started the the response of the plants to the climate not change it, but to the climate condition. So So this was not we're not talking about today. We're talking about this is twenty years ago. Twenty years ago. Yes. Twenty years ago, I started with, this, I'm an agronomist. So I I'm talking the order of everything about, the the the agricultural status of the So you were studying. It it could have been, wheat or vines, or was it just vines you were you were studying? Oh, I studied, though, and I may everything. So you're what you were studying there was their response to changes in in the weather. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what their hormones and things like that? Yes. The the the roots, and the capacity of the plants to adapt their behavior to their environment. When I I started, the the business, the business of the Vichy culture in Tuscany, who was so important. So I, very quickly, I went to to study the the vines and the the Bayavio device. Did you come from a farming family? Yes. Yes. So your parents had a farm, or they worked in agriculture? Yes. They my my my grandpa my grandfather was, involved in, in agriculture and farmer management of little, little farts but, he was very proud to be a farmer. Was it, was he doing, like, cereal crops or cows or pigs or everything? Or? Yes, more pigs than cows, but, because in Tuscane, if we, settlement was, for for little animals and more than the big one. So big one. So, so in this moment, he will he was, perfect management also rabbit. So he or, yeah, the a lot. So I I'm very that's always was my my feeling in a agriculture. Let me to to study agriculture. Do you like, just to change it? Do you like for an actually the San Giovanni, the famous white wine from Sanjay, but they always say that when you say, what do you drink it with? They always say rabbit. They're always at the rabbit. They said it's the that's the yeah. Cornillo. Yeah. Cornillo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that that's that's you you your childhood in the north of Tuscany, a farming background, studied agronomy. See? Obviously did very well. You're very good student. Okay. In Marieto. Yeah. And then what was your next step? The next step was, the time to to begin with, with the vines with the the particular to the vineyard management and the choice of a rootstock for example, the right through Stalker, I variety, and, I learned a lot from nursery management. And, after that, I began twenty years ago. Southern twenty five areas ago to work with the estates from, Cantic Class ago to in particular in Chanticle, inumbria. I work inumbria with the Longerothi family. And after Longerothi, I come back in Inetoscan, in Montalcino, and after in, in two thousand one, I arrived in Bulgaria in, in, within Malayah, and, and now I'm here after other fifteen years. So I'm very lucky because Tuscany is my my center, my activities, and, working with Sanjovese with, of course, but with Verneacher. And I work with a lot of varieties, and I I felt, and I tried to felt the sensation of each bite. Your background is very interesting because when people think, oh, you know, this guy, he's got a job at all in a lie with lungo Ortiz. That's some of the most famous names. Yeah. In Italy, you're not there by accident. You're there because of your background. You've got hands on experience as a as a young person on a family farm. You studied and you know about the DNA almost of of vines and rootstocks. And it's so important when vineyards are being planted that you get the right rootstock because that is the foundation of the plant. And the right clone or sign, you want to call it whatever is Sanjay, whichever clone of Sanjay, for and you're the kind of person that would save people a lot of money by making by avoiding making easy mistakes. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, to avoid, I I have always tried to avoid mistakes for people that pay me or for myself, of course, in terms of satisfaction, in terms of knowledge acknowledgement. It's not a easy way. And in this, in this year, I've learned that, they are real, things for the plants are the fruits, of course. I have, I have learned a lot about this. And for me, the the rootstock, is part of the the the interaction between, soils, environment, and the, and the quality of the wines. It's where it's where terroir begins. Exactly. It's what means, terroirs when the ILMs that was what there was means in the in the past. If we have to add another, another things to the concept. There is the time because sometimes we forget that the the everything is changing. So you have not to, understand the relationship between, soils, men's, and variety, but we have to microclimate or or micro or, microclimate. Exactly. But we have to to understand something more. We have to try to understand something more about the timing that's pass and pass for all the three things. For the soil because it's not, of course, it becomes another things after twenty, twenty five years, forty in, in France after fifty, sixty years. So it's an another environment where, the plants are to find find the right balance to produce something that, is so important for us because we produce grapes for wines, for wines. So Do you get really excited when you're working for an estate? And you know you've made say three or four or five vintages then, and you just know it's a really it was a badly planted vineyard. It had the wrong root stock, the wrong clone. And when you take that vineyard out, when you go to sleep and do you think, okay, I can finally turn that piece of land around and put the proper great variety on the the proper rootstock planted in the proper way with the proper soft preparation, and I know that for the next twenty years, unless I do something stupid in the vineyard set pruning, that vineyard is gonna give me good wine. You must, like, have a big smile on your face. Yes. Yes. This is, something that you can find in on your job or on the job of, some others because, in terms of quality of the vineyards, when you work, the we we are involved in this business, you have to not only to find your capacity in total you have done, but in what the others have done before you. So the the incredible things it's arrived in a place to try to understand what was in the mind of the people that have had the occasion to plant a vineyard in this caucasian or to plant atrials. A tree for me is not the same, but have the same significant. You find in the v in Evinias planted four years ago, I was not involved there, but I can feel, in the Venus, a very old Venus sensation that, I have to interpret it, to give to the to the to the seller, to give to the commercial party, to give to the communication skills, to give it something that can give words to that place. What do you think? Are you saying like for an older vineyard? And you see got an older vineyard and a newer vineyard? Yeah. Are you saying that in the in the older vineyard, maybe you'd prune it a little bit more gently than a younger vineyard. You can be a little bit more robust with a younger vineyard set pruning. You're looking at this older vineyard and think, okay. It was well planted, and I really wanna make sure that this vineyard lives as long as possible. So the workers must be very careful when they prune. Is one of the more important parts. And, the old vineyard when arriving there, after twenty five thirty, if what means, the age for the vineyard I I have just, to I know that here in Bulgaria, in Argentina, the older vineyards, have thirty years, have is, are thirty years old. So he's not, young. But you have to take care the your capacity to prune, to to interpret the vigor of the plant, to give more deepness in the the in the life. And then we have a lot of caution to to make mistake because, the plants have to be just the manager, interpret it, the vigor, the the advancement. We are just, close to here, a few meters from here. You can see from these windows, for example, you can you cannot see from the the the the the the the the the form, but, there is a beautiful vena there where the plants, just express themselves, in a natural way. In a very free way. Yeah. How is soil management changing with climate change. Obviously, Tuscany's a very hot Yeah. Luminous. Yeah. Not too much, but it's a hot it's a luminous place with plenty of sunlight, plenty of warmth, and also sometimes plenty of rain. How is your work between the vine rows with the Soveshi cover crops. And so how is that changed? More and more Soveshi? We are Now, Soveshi is a cover crop. Yes. Cover crop is a to to to make side succeed and to give to the to the plants, something a friend. So it's an indirect food. You feed the soil and the soil and feed the fire. Exactly. It's something we have learned a lot, in the last twenty five years when I was young and one of my first job, I I started just the direction between, three volume, soup terrarium. Is that subterranean clover? Sub terrarium clover, exactly, to to give the come to the the roots, more organic material. And today, we we manager more and more because every year, we add to the soil again, organic material to understand that the soil is the first step to understand the the value of the plant. So we, in Argentina, manage the the roles with, cover crops made by with, So what do you sow? With, for example, and, or it's a Sativa or So this is, barley. Exactly. Barli is great because it gives you organic matter. Organic material to give, Chilulosa, to give a carbonium, to the soil, to to replenish the soil. Yeah. Exactly. And, part of trifolium, glovers. Much chlamydia is another kind of, legumin or legumes. Another nitrogen batch, another nitrogen fixer, fixer? Yes. So depending on the on the different side, we use more serals or more, so, depending. So depending on to the, to defend the soil from erosion or depending to the Temperature? Temperatures? No. Not relative to the quick that the roots have to develop to to arrive to the right, volume in the in the right the right yield? Right yield? Exactly. In the in the right moment for the plant because May is, may is the month where the plants have to adjust the vigor between the vine and, in the weeds. So it's not easy, but more it's easier than you can imagine because, every every year, we have to change something. Bali is great because, provides a lot of organic matter. Yeah. And it's not too expensive and the seeds are big and they're easy to sow if it's a bit windy, clover, three folio, three folio, three leaves. Three leaves, clover. They're expensive. Mhmm. The seeds are very small. Yes. And if it's windy, and you're serving, it can be difficult, very, very similar. But the barely, here in this area, for example, was a perfect, meal for the birds, of course. Yeah. Take it free food. You have to always, you have manage the the two to two. So there is between the wind, between the the range that, take with, so we have in this moment, we have the technical capacity to go inside the vineyards and, have the, to, to, to see it. The effect. The effect, because, you have the right machines to do it. Yeah. You need to be at the right side. You have a good result always. That would be very, very a man, Ben Adrizzato. Okay. So let's do a quick tour of, Tuscany, and then we'll talk about Argentineier with all of the wines that you make here. Okay? Mhmm. So did you, have you ever worked in, like, Canti Glassico? Yes. I worked in the in the last four years and, before before the in the 90s for another another winery. So Okay. So tell me a little bit about what makes Castelina special? It's quite a large commune. It's quite a large commune. Yeah. It's one of the the two large communities, but it has two different sites. It's a have a beautiful parasites just in the Happer, close to Castelina in the in the east of Castelina with a lot of, a lot of rocks, so a lot of, sandstones and, Arinaria. Arinaria and the Galestro, not too much, but Arinaria is more opponent. Mhmm. And, in the passage between Castelina and the west of Castelina, so well posted to the to the sun of the west of to the to the sunset. And closer to the sea as well? It closer to the sea, but particularly, it becomes a a mix between these rocks and the clays. So there is, an area zone, where the these, overlaidgers between rocks and, place became so interesting in terms of, development of, the the Sanja basic, of course. So the higher the altitude, the level of ripening of, is depending of of this. And don't forget that, Argentina, Bolgari always is, situated on the evolution of the soil, a younger soil than the inside Tuscany. So, because, here, we are positioning on the, on the what, the erosion made in this, in the in the mountains of Tuscany fifty millions years ago. Here, this is a more younger results. And so we have more bigger plants, are very well sweated, but of course, this is the reason because, Sanjorie is, is well developed inside touscany, and here is well developed the cabinet, Soviet, the cabinet, Frank, and the Melo. Have you ever worked in Motachino? Just a few. Worked in Montecino for, Angelini, treatment Angelini. And so, Sanjoriez, I worked in San Montecino, I mean, it's same experiment. And the name of their estate in Montecino? Other. I worked here for Faldisuga, for three years, not only for Faldisuga, but for San Yonin and Canticlasses or as a group, then the one. And And then with the Lungorothi? With Logorothi, no, Logorothi, my, in Tuchalo. Okay. So, long ago, in umbria. And I worked with, in Kaldorcha, but not for this, for the state. They called Dortcha, but for the University of Flores that, in nineties, started something about the the rootstock and the rest. So I worked there for so Motochina is another beautiful place where I I I I will lucky because I found a difference situation. And it's so different from here because, in bulgari, we have just, our hard zone is, just one for each producers, the sea. Did you talk about, called Orchard, because I I had to do a presentation on Sanjay recently, and I emailed them about clones of SanjayVising. Exactly. They sent me an email that was about four hundred and fifty pages long with all the different clones. Yeah. But I'm sure you paid a part in in helping develop. Yeah. With obviously with different code numbers and different and phonological russian, the photos, if the leaves are bigger or smaller or whatever. So and you've realized how slow wine can be sometimes the years of work that goes into Yeah. And then the years of work that matching it with the right rootstock and then the right ten wire and, etcetera. And people sometimes think wine is easy and you see this thing, no. It isn't. No. No. He's absolutely easy to to to to to give. Okay. Now. Laura. Eighty actors here in in bulky. So how close are we to the sea? Oh, the the the Venus's closer is just the one kilometers, one kilometers in health. As you're closest in the out of the sea? Yes. We are the closest. Not the closest, but the one of the closest. Absolutely. And the the average of our altitude is the higher in Boulder because, we have we have forty hectares, where we produced our Flexch wine in Argentina that, was, are situated between, two hundred meters and one hundred and fifty. So in this, in this in these forty hectares, we select the cabinet, sovignan, Governor Frank, and my dog to produce Argentina. So you've got one of the highest vineyards in the Yes. Yes. Yes. In the final relation. Yeah. Yeah. Is it the highest turn off? It's not more of the high gas because there is another little parcel of the high than this one. But, the different six states. Yes. For a bigger state, we we can manage, more than half of our, surface, in boring, an average, attitude of, one hundred and fifty. Okay. Let's talk about the the wines from Argentina. Argentina, represent the another aspect of Cabernet sauvignon. We have we have Cabernet sauvignon style. So we the fifty, sixty percent of our blend is covering the souvenir. So that's for the main that's for that's for which wine, what's it called? It's called Denut. That's for the flagship wine. Which is Argentina. So can you just call it? Use Argentinaera as flagship wines or as happens. The second one is, Vila Donoratico, and, we produce Vila from, it's not exactly a second wine, in, the bordeaux sector. But, Villanoratico arrived from, in an area of, twenty hectares close to the, in the northern part of our state. And, we produce Aronor Artico with more Merblo and the touch of Petiverdo in different respects to the Argentina blend. Argentina is a cabernetiano cabernet franc and Mirolo Veronor Artico has a percentage of, Petiverto to complete the the blend. Next wine? Pottage in April or in the future? Yeah. No. No. No. No. No. The ones that you made. It's a Podge in April. So that's that's what you make, under the Poggioide Genepi. That's under the that's the Juniper Hill. That's the Juniper Juniper Hill. Exactly. And you make, Abianco, a white wine? Yes. Rosato. Rosato? Anarosa. So, yeah. So these are the entry level wines. Yeah. The the poggio, a geneapri level is red, a White and, Rosier. And, for, Vila and Argentina, of course, we use the the best, opportunities. Best grapes. Yeah. But the best grapes in particular, in particular, from, from the Argentina, areas. So do you still make a villa Donoratico? Yes. Okay. So what is, why the name Donoratico? What is Donoratico? Do not use a little village that is very close to to Argentina. So it's the place where is, close to the sea, and, it's the very, the place in the area because we are in the, in the area of Casañita Carduce. So burglary represent is represented by one hundred percent in the Casainto Carduce area. And, Akasem Carducci is the village in the high in the in the hills, and Donoratica is the village to close closer to to the sea. So where the a lot of inhabitants live. So the the people here lives in Donorati So, basically, bulgari is what's called a Frazione fraction of Exactly. Of Castin. Castinito Cartucci. And donoratigo is the other fraction. Frazione. It's the other plate, fratunas like a place name, Hammet. Okay. Exactly. Okay. And Burgrief is the historical place where the the history was as the the the the the place of the family, the ancient families here, Delagira Disca. Mhmm. It was the police of, yes. Was the look at well, I just made a lookout sign. That's the lookout. It was the lookout station because this area of the coast was subject to, you know, could be subject to attack by the Spanish, for example. Exactly. So you also have, who who is Ophelia failure, Maria, that's another one of your wine. Oh, was he funny? History or it's not funny, but when, Jentia was owned by Fatini Family, so the first, owner of Jentia was this family I've it was in floor and sand in Prato. So when were they the owner then? They sold the, Argentina in two thousand sixteen. I said they were the original owners, were they? Now, he's, sonny's last two hour. Argentina. He's only by Stani Slaus took now. He's, business man, but he law doesn't love, to be called business man. But, he is, of course, chief of a very important company in Austria. He was, so so loved with this, this part of Tuscany. And that he decided, three years ago to to move this family from, Vienna to Florence, and after from Florence to Borghe. He left it very close to Borghe. And he moved to this state, in twenty sixteen, but, like, to develop the best of this, property because it's beautiful and he needs to take care. It's hard to fine tune. To fine tune. Exactly. Yep. So did were you working before he bought the estate? Were you working here before then, or did he did he hire you? Yes. I I no. I worked the I arrived with the with the with the with the son-in-law. But in particular, the CEO of Argentina is a good friend of of mine because he started together in, University of Florence. Federico Zilay del Verde is the president of the DC Borgen, and he's the owner of another beautiful state Decatur De Borgen. It's the the the the the the the more representative man in Bulgaria because he lived there just in the castle of Bulgaria. And, when one year ago, more less than one year, just in the beginning of the year, he know that I wasn't changing my like looking for a new experience, he said, I need help. So he remains the CEO here, and I became a general manager. So now you have to go ahead in the development of Argentina. So you're the beginning of your experience here. Yes. Yes. So is this your first harvest two thousand nineteen? Two thousand nineteen is my first harvest in Argentina. Yes. Okay. Well, we wish you luck with that because you the harvest is going on. Yes. Going on, we are just in the house of the harvest. They have, so beautiful cabin in the front this morning, and tomorrow, the same, Kevin and Frank, and, it's a a beautiful, beautiful, vintage. So from your perspective, which are the easiest grapes to grow in this particular terawao very close to the sea and which are the slightly more difficult ones. Okay. The the more the the the the capitalists ofignon is, something that, arrived from, the the the mind of, Nicholas and Marinciasal as a cabernet sauvignon and cabernet francer. To the Vienesukaya effect. Yes. Yes. But of course, the the you are more closer than Sasekei avenues to the Sea. So for us, cabernet sauvignon is more important than the cabernet franc. Cabernet franc, you have to find the, really, the fine tuning the relationship between and the ratio between the quantity and the quality. The quality is, the company is more easy in these terms. More robust and. The quality, you can obtain beautiful quality for company, so if you have the right place and the right soil, of course. But in this condition, it could be very interesting. Merlo, you have, in a, vulgar, it is more difficult because, you have to to find the the ripening, and sometimes very quick, the ripening. And on this year, but, sometimes, could happen. The more difficult, the more difficult, variety, graphic variety in Bulgaria probably is San Jose. But, of course, my good friend, science, and it's Michael Esata. He's on, Jagomo, others, producers, fine, San Giovanni, that can express the Oh, wow. Or the capacity for the man to interpret its Sangiovese here. But in general, in general terms in burglary, SanJovese could have more, too much quick ripening in particular, respect to the Farfetch sangiovese inside Toskoy. Canticlassico Higer being years, Montalcino, and, everywhere. And, so in a, bulky, we are lucky because each variety can, have good production, but, to produce important wine to between everywhere in the world, you have to produce the best interpretation of the soil. Yeah. I know. And we'll go back to where we started. And to get the best, you need to have a vineyard that's been well planted in the in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's otherwise it's we call it a stone in your shoe on Sasunilla, a stone in your shoe, you're always having to retrofit and make up for a badly plant of vignola. It looks like you've inherited some very, very good vineyards. Yeah. Yeah. And, we wish you, Leonardo Espini, every success. Thank you very much. New career. At Tenut Argentina. Really stunning. Very beautiful. And these days, beautiful days to harvest and to, just a sun that's shining. If you if you want to get a absolutely fantastic view of the Tuscan coast, we can really see where the hills descend, and then there's forest, and then there's the strip of coastline, and then the the blue sea, the taurinean sea beyond, you have to come to Tanuta Jintira. You stand on the widery roof. They've got a green roof like a grass, like a football pitch. It's You went underneath this at the winery. You stand on that roof. It's very safe. It's flat, and you have an absolutely spectacular view. Very similar. Yeah. I'm gonna be your tourist consultant now. Good. That's it. When they fire me from the podcast, that's how I'm gonna knock on. You're gonna get an email from me. Okay. I do remember the guy that did I need a job. Okay. Thank you very much. Really nice to see you. Okay. That's it. That's awesome. You've spoken with great passion and knowledge about what you do. Thank you. Thank you. This podcast has been brought to you by Native Grape Odyssey, discovering the true essence of high quality wine from Europe. Find out more on native grape Odyssey dot e u. And joy. It's from Europe. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.