Ep. 1027 Cynthia Chaplin Interviews Ilona Thun | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This club session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everybody. Welcome. It is the middle of the day, and this is a special episode of Ambassador's corner because I evidently This is our fiftieth anniversary of fiftieth episodes since we've debuted, on Clubhouse with the Italian wine club, and wine business. So, here we are. And we had started our first episode was with Cynthia with Cynthia, and Chao Cynthia. So, you know, as you guys know, Joyce are producer for Italian wine podcast, and Leica is a our clubhouse manager. All of this Ambassador Corner is happening. Thanks to this woman. Leica, but she's not here because let me just I wrote to, Joy, who's were actually right just next door. And I said, can, like, join us? She can't join us. Is that correct? And she said, yes. She's on a boat. Wait, wait for this somewhere in the Philippines. Anyway, so she will try, but I'm not sure how great her sound will be. So I don't see her, so she's not here as of yet. So I know this is not our usual slot, and nobody's around because every in Italy, everyone's getting ready for lunch, but, we'll see how this goes because as you know, with the the real deal, the real deal is the replay on podcast, by the way. Congratulations to everybody because we paid three million. That's three million listens, folks, and that is thanks to you and everybody who's listening to Italian wine podcast. And if you haven't, please don't forget to subscribe and follow us and send us any comments. Okay. Cynthia, let's get on with the show. So, who is your guest today? So my guest today is Alona Tun. She comes from the very famous Tun family with their famous ceramics. However, the reason she's here today, of course, is because she and her husband, Victoria, created an incredible winery that focuses on the unique wines of Valentinizie, especially the Rosets, which you know, I'm a huge fan of. And the winery they've built from the ground up is an incredible example of wine communication and wine tourism and experiences at their best. So the excellent quality of their wine is sort of mirrored by the amazing quality of their, hospitality. And they are also supporters of the LennyTune on loose foundation, which is something I wanna talk about too. So I think Elona's amazing for what she's accomplishing in terms of hospitality and communicating her region to a broader audience. Okay. So take it away. I know Nona has hasn't got very much time. So Why don't you just take it away? Okay. Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate you taking the time. I know this is your busy season, and you've got a lot going on at the cantina. So thank you so much for coming. Well, thank you for hosting me. Thanks a lot. Huge pleasure. Huge pleasure. Listen, I I I really wanna talk about your winery. It's such a gem in the Val Tennessee re region, and you've really become like, a leading light for all the other winemakers that are there. You and your husband are both from sued to roll. How did you in Victoria find this spot in Voltennessee on the western shore of Lake Garda? What made you choose this place? Well, thank you very much. And, for your enthusiasm and sharing, when you came to visit us, just a few days ago, it was, really a pleasure to here that you also appreciate the place where, we're building up all this, we call it our experience winery. And, we like to host people in this magical place So we really get warm hearted when, we get this kind of feedback. And how we came here, that is a very good question. It took us a long time, actually. We started off in South stroll, so, in, Northern part of Italy and the dolomites. We have a very small wine, piece of land there. Just two hectares. So we began producing their own lena tune wine. That's a pure sauvignon, a hundred percent sauvignon, And we made about six thousand bottles. So that's, of course, a very, very tiny production. And then the desire after a few years that we came into, the production with this wine was to expand our production, of course, to, be able to build up a proper winery with all the requirements and, so we started to travel around Italy. I spent one whole year in, toscan, in Tuscany, because that's the kind of place that maybe on top of mind of many people is that perfect spot of the Italian winery and where you consider the porch and sip a good wine and Yeah. Just have this kind of, combination of hospitality and wine production. So that is, actually the dream of our project to, reunite these two aspects, these two, sectors also because it is a very different way of working and also of setting up your whole business. So for us, producing wine and in the same time hosting, guests in our place, in our winery, means to work seven on seven, which, of course, is quite, yeah, quite intense, but that's what just we love to do. And, that's why we then searched around more in whole Italy, and we, in the end, got to Lake Garna. We love this place because it has many aspects like, great, climate all year long. So there's actually just one month, in January where it's a bit harsh at a climate, but then it's pleasant to stay outdoors all year long, and we work with outdoor experiences like the picnic, like the dinner in the vineyard every month of the year. So that was a very important aspect for us. And also the, all the infrastructure, so how to reach Lake Garden. We have lots of, airports, highways that lead in, easy way to Lake Garden. There's not too much hassle for our guests to come to visit us. And then we are in a complete, natural, and, green surrounded place. So you get off the highway. You drive twenty minutes, and you get to this amazing place where, yeah, you're just surrounded by vineyards and olive groves. Well, it is. It is such a magical place. It's it's really beautiful. The first time that I ever went there was a couple of years ago to to see you after we'd met in Khan at a at a Rosay festival and you were just starting to Right. Yeah. And to to build the new winery, expanding your labels, and grappa, and olive oil. So over COVID, you build this incredible facility that I just visited the other day. Your your main focus is on on Rosay. So why are the Rosay so important involved Tennessee? Has has that always been the case? You know, what grapes are you using and why are those so special to you? Yeah. Well, that's, another very good question. How, famous and how old is the production of Rose in this area? And the answer is actually since ever. This is a very ancient production area for wine in Italy. But it has never grown big. It has never been same as the provence or, France, whom many, many people know, and you just need to say that word provence and you directly connected with, Great Rosay wines. So when you say Baldianese, not even many Italians know, this production area, it has same not same. It has similar climatic, conditions as the provence So that constant, wind, also in terms of soil, we have a quite poor soil. So, the roots of our grapes. They go quite deeply down. That gives the wine lots of minerality. We have this, moreenic gravel ground. So sand mixed with, round stones that come from the glacial areas that caved, lake Garla. And, that gives the, our vineyards the the perfect condition to, produce, especially our native grape, and that is the We have this, special grape, which just, grows in Lake Garden on, the west shore side, so where we are in Bailenese. And it is a very compact grape. So the, single grains. They touch each other, and it's, with a very thin skin. That makes it a very difficult grape to grow, but it is, the perfect grape for making rose, because it has a very light color. And it has a perfect acidity balance to give the rose that kind of hint. You really want in the glass when you taste such a wine. You want a fresh wine. You want something crunchy, You want something very perfumed. So to make such kind of roses that, also are able to last, to last long, in terms of, aging. Not just fresh Rosay that you drink direct in a year after production, but Rosays that can get five, ten years old. That is very special for this kind of wine. And, Yeah. I know you appreciate the Rosay, especially because you got, I think, the the the meaning of the Rosay. A Rosay is produced in our area just with red grapes. So you kind of have the tannins. You have the structure of a, yeah, of a red wine. Not really. It's it's not a red wine, of course. But then you have also the lightness of a white wine. You have that combination. And it is a one that you can when you do your classes, I think you like to combine it to, the different plates or from the entree to the first course, second course, to the dessert. You find Rosets that really combine very well to all of this, isn't it? Absolutely true. And and Contitune is making sparkling and still, and as you said, an ageable Rosier, that I think is really something special. So I highly recommend that everybody take a look at those wines, but I really wanna talk to you about what you've been doing lately. Wine tourism we know is so important to Italy now, especially COVID, getting people back here and into the vineyards and into the cantinas to taste wine in person like we couldn't do. Tastings over zoom. I'm sorry. I just never could really get comfortable with that even though I did many, many of them. So over the past years again, you built a new v a new venue, and you've got plans for doing more. So where do you see the future of wine tourism going? How how did COVID affect everything for you at your winery? Well, it it affected it quite strongly as you mentioned, and, strongly in a positive way, fortunately. We learned to become much more, online on one side. And on the other side, we learned to, yeah, host our guests with more attention and with more experiences. So, giving them a big choice in the different activities. You can do, like, just a simple. We have this. We just sit on the porch in front of the vineyards, and you have tasting all four different wines with a combination of nibbles. Or, like, the, the picnic is one of our best sellers. So we also, we started off with the picnic already before the COVID, but then we, yeah, made it even more likely for, I guess, we got lots of feedbacks. And, it's all this, want and need. We have seen very much in the wine tourism to be outside, to be in the nature, being the nature of having a service. Yeah. I think that's what I love about what you're doing is that you're offering, a lot of different packages. I think so many wineries in Italy could learn from what you're doing. In terms of, offering guests, you know, a really three hundred and sixty degree view. A lot of wineries only do tastings in the cantina. I love the fact that you're outside in the vineyard. I think this is a great way forward. As you said, people wanna be outside. They wanna see sustainability. They wanna learn about where their wine is growing. And I I think that's something that you're leading in. Also, your social media is truly incredible. Why have you decided to put so much focus on the method of marketing and getting your brand out there through Instagram? Is it effective? I mean, are you finding are your guests finding you that way? What what would you advise other wine producers to do? Yeah. Yeah. The social media point is a very important one on as I mentioned before, the COVID gave us, a big kick in this. We, we were in this COVID situation. So as a young winery, we could not go to big, fears. So they need to leave a was off of course, Otter Big, Fearsom, rest of Europe. Of course, weren't taking place either. So, yeah, there was not much choice to talk with, whoever we wanted to get to. And, We remade our whole website, making it, an online shop so that people could reach us easily, also with all the experiences and book them directly on the website. And in terms of, social media, it is actually a big focus, and it, kind of explains the the way we approach, the whole, yeah, strategy of our winery and, we're very easy. We have a kind of touch of elegance and, was, of course, also a a precise strategy, but then we take every day, very easily and like to share it with our audience. So at the moment, we've grown our, social media page, on, sorry, Instagram to, what are we something like a twenty three thousand, followers now. And they're very, very interactive. So they really want to know every day what is on in the winery, which kind of events we have going on. If they cannot reach us, they live maybe two many kilometers from us, and they're happy to see what is happening. And, it's kind of a way to, yeah, be in the nature and get a feeling of, what is going on here. And we see that people like it very, very much. And also are happy to use it in an active way. So it's about sixty to seventy percent of our bookings. So for, all the wine experiences I'm talking of now, They're coming from social media. So people, they write us on, direct mail in, Instagram and book their experiences. They ask if we have a table available for academia in the evening, or if they can come for a wine tour or if they can book a hen's party, many of those, or, or a birthday or something special to, celebrate. So what people mostly like for a winery is that we're open seven on seven. And that is one of the main suggestions I would give to other colleagues in, of wineries, in in Northern Italy, that most of wineries, they close on Saturday afternoon and Sunday. And that's the only moment when guests can come to visit a winery. Yeah. It's it's a problem. That's, you know, I've I've had clients and even family and friends around, and the time that I'm free and they're free is weekend. So, if we can't get to a winery on a Saturday or a Sunday, we're not gonna get there at all. I think you're right. Producers need to be a little bit more open minded, a little less Italian about being shut on Sundays. So that's a great piece of advice. I I know the other thing that you're doing is you're part of the consortio of Tutala Kirito and Bardilino and Rosa Talktono. Can you tell us a little bit about those organizations and and what they're doing, why they're important to your region? Sure. Yeah. So I, just have to say that I'm out of the Bardullino. We have nothing to do with that. That is the other side of Lake Carta. That is the east side. And the consortium, we are a part of, and, I'm on board, is the Vaultenese, so Consorts of Baltimore. That is the local Westside Lake Carta, one aggregation of, or of the producers, and it has been a the past ten years were quite difficult in this consortium because, there was a big hassle about how to call it, and of course, this is very confusing. So in the past ten years, this has been fixed to the one name, volcanozu. And since then there is, much, investment. If you could call like that, in communication, in, events they're doing, Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available from mama jumbo shrimp Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine, including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guide to Italian wine, Sanjay, Lambrusco, and other stories, and much much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. In order to let people know this, wonderful spot on earth, And we're also working lots together with, actually, what I mentioned before, the consortium of, provence. So since, yeah, ages, I would say over ten years now, There is, a strong collaboration. We talk it to Charter every week, especially in terms of, scientific, researchers. So about Rosay, about the best color of the Rosay, about the best taste of Rosay, about the best perfume of Rosay, and their constant, yeah, research is going on that starts from, which kind of grapes to use, how to grow them, which kind of weather conditions they like or they want to be exposed to how to treat the grade during the year. So, if you should, leave many leaves on, the plant in order that it develops in one direction, or if you should maybe get rid of some leaves in order that the grapes get a stronger, get a more, sunny flavor we call it. So, yeah, there are many, many details. I don't wanna now, go into because it would take us too long, that are being researched together with, provence and that gives us a strong standing because they're kind of the big brothers for us. They're, of course, much, much bigger. They produce around to, sorry, about two hundred million Rosay bottles, just to have, confrontation. The Valden is a consortium. We produce two million bottles. So two hundred against two million. That's, of course, very big in terms of numbers. But we work together with them on top of research also, in terms of con communication. So, also, consortium of provence. We have, social media program with, influencers. They tour around from one area to the other one. So to, yeah, make, produce content about, about these regions and, let it grow, let it know to, to big audience. That's so interesting that your sort of working together with the consortium of provence. It's kind of like consorting with the enemy, I would have thought. You know, they're they they're big. Their style is different from yours. And you've turned that into a more positive collaboration rather than a competition, because your style Yeah. Very positive. Quite different. Yeah. That's I think that's I think that's amazing. I mean, are you exporting your wines now outside of Italy? Where where are you selling your wines mostly? Well, we we are a very, very small winery at the moment because we're, in a process to grow. We at the moment produce, fifty thousand bottles, which is quite small for a winery. Meeting wineries produce around five hundred bottles, big wineries over a million bottles. So we, at the moment, are selling mostly in our winery self, so people that come to visit us directly here. We are actually also exporting mostly to, central and Northern Europe. It's, much of the request comes from Germany. We have, little restaurants and little, wine shops that request our wines. And, something also in the UK, Netherlands, Belgium, something around yet, the Northern, European countries. And little little request, and we're sending it. It's, with, customs quite difficult. To the US, but we're, getting there. Oh, I think it's great. You know, the the trend for Rosay globally, as we all know, is growing exponentially. And people don't know that much about Italian Rosay. So the fact that you're getting it out there across Europe and even sort of getting a little toehold in the US, is gonna be important to to Bell Tennessee and also to Italian Rosay in general. If people get interested, they'll they'll be looking for it. So that's really that's important. I I also wanna just talk a little bit about your Lenatune on this foundation. It's a really special project. I know you're winery supporting it, and it was named after your grandmother, but it's a a recreational therapy project that takes ceramics into pediatric cancer departments in a lot of hospitals. Can you tell us about the project and how it came about and how people can get involved? Yeah. Well, thank you for touching this. It's, you wore my heart when you talk about this because it's, it's, yeah, it's a small foundation, but, now it's quite widespread around Italy. We work in thirty two hospitals. And, as you mentioned in, the laboratories, basically give the opportunity to, mostly kids that, have to do long cures in hospitals and, get away from school in this way and all kind of entertainment, of course, because, what they do mostly is laying in their hospital bed. So this recreational therapy, means that we we provide them with all the necessary materials to work with clay. So from the clay itself, of course, and all the materials that you need then to, to the colors and whatever, whatever. And, of course, also the personnel who, guides the kids, and then there is most of the personnel is, volentories. So it's, motors, patterns, and so whoever, and they join the laboratories. We have around ten to fifteen voluntaries for each laboratory. And, one professional, Jose? I just know the word in Italian. Yeah. And, she's there in charge of the the professional person who works the play. Ceramic artist. Yeah. Exactly. Suramic artist. She then is in charge of taking the ceramic pieces that the kids produced to the professional ovens to, yeah, get it ready then. And most of the things that the kids create So we gave them some themes like, the woods, or, once it was their, their dreams, their, so their desires, and they produced, like, half blow. And then the half globes, they were united to one big globe. They were around, like, yeah, thirty cent centimeters wide, and they were all hung up on the main, Christmas tree on Saint Peter's Square. So in Rome and all the kids that could get out of the hospitals, in total, was five hundred kids. They were invited to meet the po in a private ceremony in Rome. So what also this encounter with the pope also, of course, is about. It's, therapy that produces, telecom correct endorphines endorphena? Yeah. Absolutely endorphins. The good feeling Endor feelings from chemicals. Exactly. Yes. And this helps then. It's, scientifically proven. This helps to the medicines to work better. So they're doing the chemotherapies most of the time and, to get them more effective, if they have the endorphines, and, of course, all the rest of your body working better, all this, makes them, yeah, get out of the hospital in the end better and sooner. And mostly it's about the kids, but very often it's also about their families and parents that are living this, horrible time in, in their lives. And they get get kind of this distraction with, the clay, basically. It's, therapy that involves making you create something tridimensional. And this, calls very strongly this end refined. So it's a it's a very effective. Like, there are many therapies like this. There's the, there's the pet therapy, the clown therapy, the remaining. With the clay, it has this very special and strong effect. So the best way to support actually these, laboratories. You can go on the website. It's called phone dot zionne dot o o r g. So phone dot zionne And you can adopt the laboratory. And, yeah, just basically, support it with whatever amount you prefer, or, main aim in searching for supports for these, kids and laboratories is with single kind tiny drops from many people. So we have, bracelets to say thank you. It's a very tiny thin string with, little wooden heart. And, you can find it in all of the two shops around Italy. It's around nine hundred shops in Italy. You can find it. You give one euro and, with this one euro, you support the foundation. And, as a thank you, you get this, bracelet, which we call Filodamore. So Filodamore means, threat of, love. And, yeah, that's what we just want to do with single little drops. So not asking too much. I'm not asking, people to donate huge amounts, but just one euro, two euros, three euros, What we do in the winery here is, we organize, afternoons for, healthy kids. We spread the, what, the voice, in, in schools or kindergartens, and, the families come in the afternoon, and they find, the figures of clay of a tune. So, molded, ceramic figures, and they're not colors, so they find them completely, roll. We give them a kit of colors to, color them and to buy one of these kits, to buy one of these, packages, let's say. It costs around ten to twelve euro. So the the the motto here is that kids are helping kids. The not, ill kids, they're having fun, and they're coloring, and they take home this, thing they just, yeah, had fun with, and, they donate in the meantime or their parents actually donate and, help kids that are not having a great time in the hospital. I I I love how you've tied sort of the science going on in your vineyard and the research you're doing to the science that's going on in the hospitals and inviting kids into your vineyard. I think is another thing, that more Italian wineries could do. You're always happy to have kids in the vineyards and at the cantina at tune. And I think that's that has helped a lot with your tourism as well. So, you know, queued us for that because I know a lot of families struggle to take, you know, children with them if they're gonna go wine tasting, and you make it very easy to do that So I would love for other producers to take a look at that. But I I also know you're planning to do a lot more building on your estate in Bell Tennessee. What's the upcoming projects? What are you what are you doing next? Well, the upcoming is for us a little bit the coronation of the whole project because, it will be the part of the, the rooms. So the courtyard where our winery is, in So it's in the middle of our fifteen hectares. There's this old courtyard of the eighteen hundreds, and, we are refurbishing all this. So that next year, we will open this little one resort with, twenty five rooms and a little wine spa with, three to four saunas, some Sage rooms, and especially the outside part with, a big cold swimming pool and another warm swimming pool. And the main thing is for us that every room, will have its own little garden. So it's own little private space outside in the green. That means that, basically, on the roof of our, wine cellar, we dig the wine cellar under the ground so that on top, now it, could be all green. And, that gives the double, the double aspect that having the winery that oh, sorry, the wine cellar was earth and greenery on top keeps it, of course, cooler. So that's what the wines, want. And the second, positive aspect is that our guests can enjoy a wonderful park and, a garden which is made with Of course, lots of olive trees and, a nice garden where we filled it up with lots of flowers because as Rosay producers, of course, we needed lots of pink flowers. And so that our guests, yeah, can spend most of your time when they visit us in, green outside and, enjoy there exactly where all products come from. So this infinity pool that goes directly into the wine rose, And, yeah, the rest of the garden that is in an olive probe. Well, that's that's great. I think that's endotherism at its best. Now you've got three hundred and sixty degrees. Your guests can come. They can taste wine. They can be in nature, and they can sleep over. So, a great model for other producers, not only in your region, but all across Italy, to attract more visitors, keep them with you for a couple of days, let them really be immersed in your vineyard so thank you so much for sharing all of that. I hope it inspires other producers to do some more interesting things to to get more, tourists into here and into drinking our wines. And I know you are a very busy woman, so I won't ship you any longer. Thank you so much for sharing your time today. It was really great to hear you. Well, thank you very much, Cynthia, for, initiating this and for inviting me. It was a great honor. And, congrats to, the club house and to the podcast for, I just hear before your great numbers. You just breached. So uploads to that. It was really big honor to be part of this today and to share a little bit of our tiny spots here. We're really super, super happy to welcome whomever wants to come by here. Hi, Elena. I'm Stevie. I'm back. Just have you got time for one more question? Sure. Sure. Yeah, Elena. So, you know, just just I want to understand something. So your family is, from the it's the famous Tun ceramics family. Is that correct? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And so then you're coming from this, you know, family business of ceramics. Number one, why did you want to start making wine? And number too. Why didn't you start making wine in, like, which is your home? Yeah. That is, I I'm just curious because Yeah. No. That's very good to ask because Alto Adidra is a very important wine region. And, I am from their native, and I would have liked to stay there also. I must admit. We started to put so my family, we have wine raised since, always, all the past generations of my family that go back to, the year thousand hundred and fifty. So we have a quite long history. Oh, so where where is your family winery? Our family winery is, well, we have, vineyards. So not a winery where we produce wine in Aldoadigene because in Aldoadigene, the, the social wine sellers. Yeah. Continue. They went to a very high level. Yeah. Continue the child. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They they are at a very high, level very different from all the rest of Italy. When I I agree with their their the benchmark in terms of co ops. I was just there actually at I mean, last week. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Got it. That is one of the amazing ones, and we always, gave our grapes to Delano. Okay. And they actually just take grapes from the best vineyards. So for us, our family and our past generation was always an honor. To, give our grapes to, this co ops. As mentioned, so we started in twenty years ago, producing our first wine, which is the Lena Thun. Mhmm. And, we gave him the name of, my grandma, And that was that very tiny production. So when we got on our first steps and, wanted to go on with the production, of course, our idea was to stay in as duality. Mhmm. And we started looking around. I must admit that in terms of prices of, buying a vineyard in Alto Adi. Yeah. Of course. It was impossible for us to start the business Mhmm. To give you, a dimension of the Yeah. Prices. Economically was not sustainable. Mhmm. Exactly. Exactly. They cost around eight hundred to a thousand to one million, one hectare, versus in Valdenity where we are now. So it's one of the five most, costly, areas, and whole Italy. Yeah. Sort after. And, yeah, it's it's it's not really affordable. So either you inherited, more one. Yeah. Mhmm. A whole estate. But to, build up the whole wine cellar. And, we were looking for, a native another area was native grapes. So that's why we were touring around. It's just a native grapes together with, the fact that they, and we we want them to be naturally, how how do you say? The, the cultivation. So an organic cultivation. Sorry. I couldn't get up with the word. So we were looking around for this, and we could not find it with an affordable price in that's why then, we moved to, because there's too few space in our garden. There's so many mountains. Yeah. It's highly softer. But, of course, they make one of the best best wines of Italy. So I'm I'm I'm a fan. So I was it was just curious. It seemed it seemed so odd that you went to, another area. True. Absolutely. Yeah. That's true. Absolutely. Alright. Thank you so much. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. No. I just want us want to mention that we have this one wine that comes from alto adige, and that is a very precious wine for us. So, as you mentioned, that they have a very high level, not because it's our wine, all the wines of alto adige, and They're very, very good. And, yeah. Probably they're they're good and precious because there are so few of them. And what which one is that? The the one we produce is a hundred percent sauvignon. Okay. Alright. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, Elona. Thank you so much for being part of this, fiftieth anniversary episode. And, hope to meet you in person, and maybe perhaps we can pop by your your winery. Sure. Sure. It would be a great pleasure if we could combine with, Chintia, and, whoever you would like to come by, it would be a great pleasure. And, thank you very much again for, the honor for being with you at this fifty's anniversary. Yes. Thank you so much to you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and break the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, teaching. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment production and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. 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