Ep. 1112 Joan Harnish Interviews Charrère Sisters | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. Tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com, any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs, and remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Welcome everybody, to Ambassador's Corner. It's five PM on Thursday. And, today's, Ambassador's Corner will be with Elena and Elianora from being interviewed by Joan Harnish. And, actually, I'm supposed to be Stevy, but since Stevy just left Piamonte, she does a apologize because she was intending on being here, but there was a lot of traffic. She has been attending the women in food summit. She was doing something there, for a magazine and filming and So, we're going to get started. It is, five PM, and welcome. Hello there. Well, thank you for coming on. And, I just wanna give you a quick introduction and then ask you a couple questions about your choice in, producers. So, you are originally from San Francisco go Bay Area in California, and now you live in Spain, just south of Barcelona near the Priorat area, and you have three kiddos, and, your husband is from Barcelona. And you did a dual master's MBA and MIM Masters in business administration and masters in international management and specialize in marketing and corporate events management, and you are a certified Sommelier, w Set four holder, diploma, graduate, and, Vine Academyka. She's a member of the Via community, of course, and a climate change activist. Did I miss anything, Joan? I think you've out covered it. Awesome. Okay. Okay. So super, I am going to ask you, what, you know, why why you selected lecret as your favorite producer? Well, I find the the Cheraire family's history and liaison with both the French and Italian culture and winemaking to be a fascinating story behind their wine. They're located in Valdosta, which we know is the smallest region in Italy, bartering to the west of France to the North Switzerland and to the southeast to the Pierre Monte. And, most importantly, as a heroic Viticulture producer, in a crate being in the heart of the Alps, between Mont Blanc matterhorn, Monteros, and Grand Paradiso, which are all huge alcid exceed over four thousand plus meters above sea level. It's It's an amazing area to grow wine and very difficult. And this region is known for its small vineyards and limited production of wine, and the heroic feet of the vines clinging to the steep hillsides at high altitudes has come from ages of traditions from the monasteries and castles that dot this lovely landscape. It's actually beautiful. And this, along with the Alpine climate and slopes, a white stone, We have a number of native varieties that they're all attending to, as well as international varieties. We have, for example, like the Prio Blanc, Cornelline, Fuman, Parti Tarouche, Torrete, Rameta, on and on. And as well as the picotendro, which is better known as a nebbiolo. And then on the international side, we're looking at chardonnay, pinot blanc, pinot gris, pinot noir, so it's it's all there, and the producers are high top notch quality, and I just I find it very fascinating for our a audience to learn about them. Okay. Yeah. So that was actually just touched on my next question, which was what what sort of objectives? What sort of, what what is the audience gonna take away from it? But I suppose that that's, you know, you you just touched on that. Sure. Yeah. Basically, so the audience better understands Italy, it'll it'll it's, Northwestern's, northwestern mountain wineries, their niche production, and to understand the crate history, tradition, and innovation, and also to learn about the crate's wine tourism, their experiences, and their target market. I think those are the three important objectives. Perfect. And and when did you first taste or discover Like, what did you first try their wines? Oh, this was, early last summer. We were hiking in Valdosta, and, our actually, our hotel had mentioned, this winery got a definite visit And, soon we were coming down from one of the hiking trips, we, you know, went there and fortunately bumped into Elonora who gave us a wonderful wine tasting and, just had some amazing stories and explanations about the wines. And we walked out of there apart from it, in fact, it's a beautiful winery, and the the, location is amazing. It's it's very historical and with deep history in the family, we just walked out of there, like, wow. That was the an amazing visit. So that's why that's when we discovered it. Awesome. Okay. Well, that sounds that sounds really cool. And I'm looking forward to the conversation Before I hand you over, I just wanna make sure we've got, Elena, you're there, and Elena is there as well. Or Here we are. Hello. Wonderful. Alright, Joan. I'm gonna hand you over, and I'll be back at the end. And There might be some time for questions over to you. Okay. Thank you so much for your introduction. I'll introduce the, these two wonderful sisters together as, I will start with Selena, her her bio, and then we'll go right into the questions. Is co founder of La Prade winery with her family? She runs the commercial marketing and communication department since two thousand seven. And after receiving her law degree, she realized that law was not equal for everyone so she changed her professional direction and worked for the regional chamber of commerce. And it was this work experience that led her full circle back to her family winery where she became manager. Alana loves creativity, new ideas, photography, cats, and her home. She is fascinated by the spirituality of people and things, and she enjoys eating, and is a happy woman with homemade food and nice wine. So welcome, Elena. Welcome. I have, as you said, I I have known all the masters You won't ask, but I'm happy anyway. Okay. So, let me introduce as well, your sister, Eleanor. And Yeah. Elanora is also cofounder of Lecrate Family, Renwinery in Elsa Valley. She's a graduate of agronomy and Esmalier working as an agronomist and production manager at Lacreit winery since two thousand five. Between the vineyard and the cellar, Elianora has always loved the magic of wine since she was a little girl. She lives step by step through the evolution of the winery with her father and her sister. She is an enchanted she is enchanted by the cycle of nature and its harmony. And in her free time, she enjoys cooking cakes with her two children. Welcome, Elonora. Hello. Okay. Nice to hear your voice. Yeah. John, we are, here. We are, and leaving a crazy period because of the harvest. I thank you for coming. I know harvest is huge time, so thank you for your time in the interview. Okay. So, Ela Nora, this question is for you. Please tell us about the landscape of Vasosa. The geography and terroir where your grapes are grown. Yeah. I like to describe stavale like a crib among the Alps. This is interesting. To let you understand how we feel, because we are strictly connected to our, and that, we feel protection for the arts. The arts is, a place where our, vine grow. And, it's a chance for us to make wine in this special area of the world. Our our soil is, from Morenic, granite. So the Mon Blanc granite is present in all, the Aosta valley. We we have the chance, all, along the ballet floor, to, to find frequently, aluminum fans, especially at the mount of the streams in in the main valley. And thanks to these, alluvial fans. People in Valdosta started to cultivate the land to to start the activity of, the farming. Because, that special areas are rich in, micro nutrients, micro nutrients, for, for the, and the growing of, the plants, which is really interesting in our, terrace, is that, Valdau's is one of the driest region in Italy, which is a little stranger. But, we are a compare, for example, to basilicata, which is in the south or in the south of Italy. Concerning the water rain during all the year. So we have, a low level of, rain, which is good for, and cultivation of the, the divine. And, but, we have a sandy soils. And so we have often to use water for emergency during summer. We are really lucky because we have a good reserve of water, because because of the mountains, of course. And, so the the the vines can produce a good quality, grape, during the fall period. Usually our soil is poor in, in loam, in clay. So, water cannot be preserved. That's why we need the irrigation emergency. In, another interesting thing about our landscape, is that we have a vineyard, in a steep slope. And we have also micro parcels. The the average of the parcel for, a vineyard is one thousand square meter, which is very, a low, amount of, surface for the cultivation of the land. So we have to make, like, a puzzle to have one one actor of India, which is, one, of the, which is one of the minimum surfaces, good for the growing of the grades. I'm sorry for my English because I'm really Italian, but I hope you understand. And what can I say about our terroir? Well, yeah, it's very important to to explain you that, the the work in the vineer is done by hand for the seventy percent. So we we we make the winter pruning, the green pruning, the sucker cut off, the tang of the shoot, the thinning of cluster, the leaf removing, and the harvest, everything by hand. And anything, that is very important because in this way, we have the direct control of the production during all, the period, of the vegetation of the grape. And then our our farm, Lecret, own thirty hectares, which are spread into nine different villages. Which is a lot for us. It means to move from one place to another. And, that, for us is important, because we spent a lot of time to do that. But our reality is, really complex. And, from this, thirty hectares, we produce two thousand two hundred fifty five bottles which is eighteen seven hundred cases. And, we we work with both indigenous and the international varieties, as you said before during the presentations. It's important also for for us the altitude. Our linear are between six hundred and nine hundred meters above the level of the sea. Which is, for, in fifty is one thousand nine hundred seventy two, two thousand nine hundred fifty two. We have to we are we are able to translate to to better understand. And, we are also a high density, of, one character. We have and the average is seven thousand to eight thousand nine thousand vine tractors. So, I guess, in this way, you have, a picture of, what, our stability, Viticulture is. Wow. This is the first, year, the first winter where we have had some difficulties. But we we are lucky because we have a, a team of nine women, working with us in in in field. And, every year, they reconfirm the presence for us. So, that is a good, warranty for us to have people wear well informed that you are about to work in the vineyard. Okay. Okay. Super. Next question is for Elena. At what point in history did your winery make a change to innovate yet still remain its tradition? So I have to to make a premise. That is, regarding the story of my family in Astavale, my family has one story. You know, my family in the mid of seventeen hundreds, moved from France to Astavale. And, they started out as farmers, farmers, and millers, and, built an on-site, and, a water powered meal in our property, which is, still existing. And, we are rebuilding, we are going to rebuild this year. And, in, eighteen ten, they planted the the first two actors of grape. And, one actor is like is like two, two and a half acres among. And, in nineteen hundreds, my grand grandfather called antoine began to pro produce wines for sale, out of local, indigenous grapes. In nineteen eighty nine, my father, Constantino, and nurture the the original state building the Crest winery. Well, that is run now by my family. So we are the sixth generation working with with wine. And, you know, my father, I don't know if if I can say that in English, in Italian, we we say so. My father made a dirty job creating the grads. So, It was by himself. He created everything, the brand, the winery. He run run the offices, the the technical side, for the winery. And, it was our freedom to real realize everything. And you asked about innovation and tradition, enteringocrats, there was nothing to do but to to do something to to try to improve, the productivity we talk in in in many fields, like in the seller, in the vineyard, or in the market, in the sense working the sales network and the commercial. That's why, my sister and I with my husband, who who run the who's running the winery with us. Today. We decided to work, on the vineyard and in the cellar in the micro verification, So what we do now, we which differentiates our, intervention from one of my fathers, from my father's in the, I mean, decisions. Is to to work on, the individual fields, individual state composing, the winery. So, or what the, I mean, the the French people call call through. So we, we try to pick the grapes, at the right level of motivation, And, we do that in the in every individual field to, have, equality, not not only equality control, but also as I was saying, the right level of m maturations, because, micro modifications are very, very important, when we are talking about the quality because it's not us to to reach, a very high quality, wines. Okay. The concerns are the winery. What we we try to do to differentiate and to improve the productivity is to work, on the agronomic management, that that, I guess, it can be powerful qualitative tool. So, I guess we have to pay a lot of attention to that side, talking about, the climate changes, and, I mean, we have to adapt the ourselves, to the climate change we are living, which is not easy or not at all. And, that that's true. We have, in fact, ateruara, and that that allows us, that give us very good condition, to the cultivation of the wine. Because, as was, saying my sister, Eleanor Nora, the climate is dry and windy. And this is good, is a good start for us for the agronomic management. Environmental impact, thanks to our climate. I I I wanted to add, the the I mean, what we we did to improve the, the productivity, the productivity, sorry, about the commercial, matter. And is, is, to to realize that, we we are, a very small winery in a very small region, you know, the smallest region. And, small quantities, require, a very high attention to the marketing, positioning, and strategy this to guarantee, supplies and to be present in one list. And this is, this is a side that has to be very, very careful to decide We have, we are lucky, because we are a boutique winery, and we we we have a low production. But, the choice to be present in the market, ask to be done, focusing, on specific areas, that are important to us. Like, regionally, talking about Dusta Valley, We think we have to be strong where we have roots nationally with the attention to Italian capitals and, internationally internationally to the nation, that that can, that can be important to us in terms of, guarantee of products. So, you know, we we have a problem which is not, given by the to, by the position if, eye quantities, but is the opposite problem, which has to be any way to take any into consideration. Exactly. And the next question, is for which is, what are your what are your best sellers locally nationally and internationally? And can you please tell us what those profiles are like? Yeah. I'd like to start, by, the few men, the description of a few men, which is a a Doctor. News great. The brother of the the indigenous variety you mentioned before. For us, if you may represent the roots, our roots, is the connection with our past and our and it has a name. That reminds the smoke because in italian form means smoke, because of, it's skin, which is, like, a deep purple and and a gray, and, a deep violet and gray. Is, a masculine and sensual wine with a great, character. And He has a, deep, color, really intense. In the past, it was, it was used to give, body and, structure to lines. And and Tima was, on a an extension, way. Can I say? It was disappearing in And, our father, Constantino decided to plant one vineyard only made, with a few men. And, he decided to make a significant one hundred percent few men. And which gave us a really interesting results. That's why we decided to continue in this, road or the valorization of this talk to news. And, is a wine, at the nose, reach in a fruit and spices with also some note notes of later. In the mouth is a Jewish with soft tannins, with note of, uniperos and, with a find us like, licorice. So that's a description of the wine. The national, our best seller, is the Petita Arvina. Patita Arvina, for us, represent the future. Potato is, a feminine wine with a peculiar personality. Is, a nose floral citrus, with a note of passion fruit. And, on the palate is a sappid with minor nuances, a really high acidity, so really fresh with a long finish talking of Tetermine, I talk about the future because Petermine is representing for us and the grape, for the our micro unification We are trying to, to let Peter lean age in concrete eggs. We are using seven hundred liters, eggs in concrete. And and we are adding good results in the in the past in the next five year, maybe. We will make a special edition of a Peter VIN agent in this way. We are verifying also a crew with Thervin, which is called Flur, and we are also making, sparkling wine, a classic method, which is called Revan, a thirty six mount, aged in Lee, Champagne. And, we are really having good and satisfying results. In, then, for, concerning the Chernale, best seller. We we have to talk to our Shardon Nextiva, of course. Chardon, for us is like, the late motif, in here we say, and, is the wine conceived by, our father, Constantino, after an encounter in French in the bourgogne team with the, Vina Grover. We which is, called, Daniel de La Grange. My father discovered, the technique, to, aging, and romantic, chardonnay, in a a French in, Barriq. Pardon? For us, is, how can I say? Is an international grade which is the expression of our peculiar terroir. And my father when started here at Clercret, he started with a tree, Barriq, and now for us is a production of eight thousand bottles. So, it's a wine for us that represented the growth of the seller in in the during the years. And it was also a change for all the buying growing in Valdosta because, before that, no one talk about the Valdosta wine production. And, now, everyone knows. Thanks to Sharpen Neck, you about the Valdosta is concerning wines. Testing. Of course, after, twelve month in a three hundred liters, barrel, you can feel the influence of the oak. But is a really delicate outcome. There is a good balance since between the fruits. You find, exotic, fruit. You find has enough butter vanilla, delicate toasty aroma. And in demand, you file, minerality, acidity, also food body. So it's a really complex, wine, which I represent what our Terrace can, do in, in wine. Yes. Thank you. Elena. Did you we know that you have a law degree. Did you also study the in the field of wine? Actually, not as soon. I mean, I'm very stubborn, and I know it, and I knew that I would have taken advantage of the situation of of being in in, a family, in family, and and to comfort to from comfortable maybe, in my winery shoes. That's why. I don't know if I can say that, but thank you. And, so I I I thought that was better, having an experience after my law degree outside of the family business. That's why I decided to, I mean, to work in, in the PA in the public administration. And, so I entered the the chamber of commerce. I entered the chamber of commerce, of my region. That experience, allowed me, to know, the the political context of my region, of course, but, made me also realize that, I wasn't born to follow orders. I am I'm not I'm not one for that. And, otherwise, maybe I'm better. I'm bored to do something for myself, and all the experiences are out of the winery. Let me write toocrats winery. And so I, I mean, I guess that I try to escape, but I couldn't, I couldn't do it, and that was maybe by destiny to be to be here at the winery. And, that that make me grow this experience at the winery. I I with my father, I I have a conflicting relationship because we are very similar in many ways. And, often, we we come out to add very often. But, over the years, we learn how to find a connection, and we did it. Then, he fell sick, like, four years ago. And, he had a stroke. He cannot speak anymore, but, but we have a connection in any way. And, all what we we want to do is to, I mean, is to thank him for all he has done for us and the winery. He is a part of the reward inside the of the job here. Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. Thank you. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Okay. Elena, I was asking you, what advice would you give other women working their way up in the Italian industry? Oh, I will suggest them to believe in their passion and daring every time to reach, to achieve their goals. I guess this is important in life. And, we were talking before about the rewarding part of the job, of, of my job, in particular, I guess, ideation in any form it it can concern a wine, a label, an experience to offer to customers. I guess that ideation, accompanied by the creation, realization, of a project of of quality. It's all, I called, ask from this job. Okay. And this is really satisfying for me. Is also satisfying the satisfaction of the final consumer. And, and another side, very rewarding of this job for me is, the respect, the respect that, that we can show with our work to the nature. That's what we try to do. Very interesting. Okay. Thank you. Let me move on to Eleonora. I wanted to ask you concerning this this year's harvest that I know you're still doing, and you have to get back at it very soon. What what do you find to be the hardest part of this year's harvest and the best part and the easiest best part? Yeah. During this harvest, the very hard part is, the drope and the lack of water. We we experiment. We we experience it during this summer, which, influenced the ripening of the grapes in the different parcel. Since our soil, are cannot retain water because of the absence of a of clay of loan. We we need the irrigation for emergency during the amount of July usually. And, so, the old vineyard, which are without irrigation, they were in a little supran because of the lack of water. But for fortunately, the new, Vigner with the the irrigation, they hadn't, any problem. But the difficult now for us at, at the moment of the harvest is to establish the right moment to pick the grape in the grape in the different parcel. For example, for our our charter necklace, we have seven different parcels in seven different areas. For doing seven micro verification or separated. And, that is really crazy. We we did it. Shargonquin one now is, fermenting in, other seller. But, it was very stressful to find the right time for for the right person. Mhmm. And, so talking about our best part, is, luckily there is there is also a good part of lacking here. It's the quality it's the quality of the grape. Because, we We had, perfectly, healthy, grapes. And, the fungal diseases, hadn't any chance to develop because of the dry weather. So o idiom and, down a medium, this year, were not present in, any, vineyard. That was yeah. Yeah. That was very good. And it it was really good good for us also concerning the intervention in a field, for with the treatment. So, this year, really a minimum number of treatment we we did. With obtaining good, good quality, grape. Oh, that sounds like a wonderful achievement. That's that's really nice to hear. Thank you for that. And, Elena, I wanted to ask you now How does luxury winery stand out in terms of wine tourism? Tell them tell us about the the wine tourism, please, and maybe a little bit about the repurio Delvino. Oh, perfect. So the refrigerator is, is a case in Rome, born in two thousand sixteen. And, close to the, the historic winery is and and it is structory structurally connected to the winery. And, we we thought that, to open the doors of our cellar to open our soul and, to one lovers, and to everyone who wanted to discover our world. And, we, we decided to call it a refrigerator that in English means wine hat. Because for us, it it doesn't meaning, wine hat because, the refrigerator delvino arises, among the Alps. He's working, a typical architecture of white eyes. And, also, because, the the the one heart concerns, a structure, typical from, mountain architecture, and, was built with the meaning to protect the wine as a food and, has a heritage of, the mountain terraces. And, we we choose that because, we think that's, we we are making in the mountain, wines, and with their very clear characteristics. And, we we make, an heroic, ventriculture. As the owner said before. Mhmm. And, so we choose to I mean, we gave to the refuja a profile that rema reminds the mountain chains to become the symbol of our winery. Okay. And to the to define better, identify better, our brand. Exactly. And Okay. And you you you saw it. So Yes. You you can say me. It it is architecturally stunning. And you do feel like you're going into the peaked mountains. And then once you walk in and those huge, you know, the the windows that look out over the vineyards, etcetera. It is absolutely amazing. And, it really attracts any eye to, bringing the outside into the rifugio. It's beautiful. And That that was the goal. So Yeah. It it was very, very, got it. Yeah. It it's beautiful. And I I would definitely recommend anyone who is in Valdo, so to go and visit and see this. It's it is our architecturally amazing. So We are going to wait for. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That sounds beautiful. Well, okay. Let me move on with another question for Ella Nora. Oh, yep. This is, now a question moving on to climate change. I'd like to know how climate change is impacting Lecrate approach. And if you find that the wineries approach is proactive or is it reactive? I guess, we are having, a complex approach. Our, in the past, we have always had an empirical approach. Basing also is experienced, in, in the past. There there is a kind of knowledge, especially when you leave in particular areas. There is a like an access ancestral, knowledge, that, every man knows. But I guess that now it is no more enough to own, Vigna. Times are changing, weather and climate is changing. And so what we are doing is, to build a new knowledge, to re rebuild a new knowledge for for us. That's that's why, for example, example, we we have now a weather station for the environment that are relief in our vineyards. So we can have the relief of the temperature, the humidity of the soil, the humidity of the air. To to to study, what's happening now in our, specific area. Okay. And that's one point. Then we are also intensifying the monitoring on field, the direct monitoring on field of divine plant. So we are more freak frequently in the vineyard to see especially during a summer. Especially this summer, because of this this drug, we frequently were there to see what was happening. Right. And then what we are doing generally to to prevent to to prevent the climate change, is working as possible with the green energy. That's why we are now working with the the electricity from solar and from hydro exclusively. Which is important right now. We guess it is important to do something, for for the environment. And we are also working at the seller with with the the palette to to heat all the the building. Okay. And it sounds like you're you're very, you know, proactive in terms of working a lot of different angles, not all only out in, you know, out in your vineyards, but inside the cellar as well. How about, with your bottling and all that kind of stuff? Do you have you decreased the weight in your bottles or any anything like that in terms of shipping, etcetera? At the seller, we are using, a light bottle. We don't use any more heavy butter, for, also top wines. So we decided to use, for all the production, the same bottle, we which is a medium or low, heavy heavy butter, to, yeah, to to, yeah, to reduce the the the pollution, the, yeah, the CO2. And, at the seller, what we do also is, working with, really low chemical. We we respect the, the the vine. And so we really work only with the sulfur and copper. And, pardon with at the cellar with sulfites and in the field with the sulfur and copper. So Got you. Okay. And, do you believe that with, you know, some of the top ten or scrapes and the native grape varieties coming that are so, popular now in Italy and they're real making a comeback. Are these gonna be our our our big heroes in climate change coming forward? Do you think that? Concerning, oh, Octonos grape. I guess, that, grape, that vine has a high capacity of, adapting, itself to the, differences of, whether we are, see, we are leaving. So, right now, I guess that also, Octonos grape, can survivor, also with these changeings. But I I think also that, it's important to make a research. And why not, maybe, in the future, to try to work with the, resistant, the varietals, specific clones more resistant to the drop. It it should be away. Yeah. But, I'm scared about that because I don't want to lose what is my, tresor, for me, the tresor is also the the the octopus variety for us are very important because there's a preservation of our identity. And so I'm care about losing them. Yeah. That's that is something to be, you know, concerned about. And I understand that you're you're going to the essence essence of your varietals that you've you know, made your winery upon. So that's very important to maintain that research on your, you know, within your own, your own field there. But, sounds really interesting. It's a tough, thing that we're looking against is climate change. And, It's interesting to see how people, you know, how they react to it or what approach they take. But, it sounds like you're doing a lot there with in your winery. And, I I'm finished with my questions. I don't know if we open up questions now to, our our public. But Hi there. We have one from Andre Batkilling, and, okay, it's about potential. And he's asking, could they describe how, how it's changing, the flavor profile is changing through time. And, if it's not clear, I can actually bring him up so that he can ask for himself. Yeah. Yeah. I I I tried to ask, but it's, you know, speaking. We are observing is that, in the past, there was more the research of, a wine complex with, I I I present of, especially thinking about our quiverua. And, now the evolution is to look for more, fruit, more freshness in, in wines. Now people want to to to appreciate the expression of the fruit. And, so, that's why it is very important to use, in the right way, the the oak during the vinification. Great. Awesome. Thank you. I, I just, I wanted to, just see if there's any more questions before I I start talking again. Anybody else If there are more questions and, or you think about a question later, you can always, email me at, info at Italian wine podcast dot com, and I will, of course, forward anything to Elianora or Elena, or Joan, in fact. Because we're reaching, the end of our time at on clubhouse, and I just wanted to quickly, thank everyone for it was a wonderful conversation. And I actually just wanted to say I I I checked the the the architecture that you were just talking about on, on the website the the, the wine tourism. And I thought that the buildings, they look so beautiful. So I just want to to say that. That's really wonderful. But, yeah, no, I wanna say a great conversation. Thanks. Thank you so much for participating in your time. I know you're in a hurry, but you were wonderful. Thank you. Thanks for choosing Legrads. Thanks. It was a pleasure for us. Of course. I'm gonna spend some time next week. We have Pablo Fernandez interviewing Angelo Variane, next week, next Thursday. So, you guys come back, stick around, tune in, And, of course, thank you again. I have a wonderful evening and, bye to Lika, who is having some connection problems. So Thanks. Bye bye. Bye. Thank you. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. 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