Ep. 1136 Peggy Baudon Interviews Francesca Accornero | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

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And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Welcome to Ambassador's Corner. My name is Joy Livingston, and, I'm stepping in for Stevie Kim. Stevie has jetted off to New York, so she's on a plane right now. So I'm I'm just gonna I'm gonna pretend to be Stevie for a bit. So tonight on Ambassador's corner is, Eggie Bowden. I hope I said that. Okay? Interviewing Franchesca Acornero. And let's see here. Peggy, are you there? Hi, Joy. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Yeah. Great. Yeah. Nice to be here. Nice to talk to you today. I don't know if I've ever talked to you. No. I've heard your voice a lot because you did the, the wine maps. Right? Oh, poor you. Yeah. Oh, No. No. It was fun. Actually, you have a you have a really very, very crisp voice on those recordings. So that that book is actually coming out soon and the links to all of the, the wine maps that are recorded on the podcast are also added there. If anybody's interested, they're really, really cool. Anyway, so, yeah. I I remember your voice clearly. Oh my gosh. That's hilarious. I'd forgotten. Yeah. It's lovely to meet you in your voice. Oh, well, I I do know that you're in Eastern Western Canada. You look you're in Vancouver. Right? Victoria, just west of Vancouver on an island. Thank you for island. Very west coast of Oh, Okay. No. I know it well. I used to live in Vancouver in Coquitlam still for many, many years. Wow. Oh, I Hi, neighbor. Hi, neighbor. Yeah. No. I I went east eventually, but, yeah, Vancouver is really nice. So, yeah, I was, looking at your, your I was gonna introduce you here, and it and, you know, I I see that you you took some time off having two kids, and then you, because you were teaching before. What were you teaching? I was a classroom teacher. I was just a high school, middle school teacher, teaching English, communication skills, things like that. And, but I grew up in the in the food and wine industry, and then anyway, left teaching and well had a baby and, and then had another baby. And then just teaching what the schedule didn't actually work with having a family. So I rejoined the industry and Here I am. Yeah. I know. I said you you were you tried, bartending just to to sort of get the, you know, get the the the work in in the evenings, but then you fell in love with wine. And now you're doing wine. So that's yeah. No. It's it's great. I, I just didn't wanna miss anything. If there's anything I'm missing, on your your intro, I just, before I I ask you your questions, So, Peggy, why did you select Franchesca Acornero as your favorite producer? Yeah. I I'm so excited to talk to Franchesca today. So, Yes. I'm very interested in wine as you mentioned. So I'm obsessed with it really. I study it all the time, and I've always been intrigued by Greeniolino. And, I've been interested because the description of the grape is so different from the history of Greenulino that I've read about. So it's just the grape is described as, you know, high acid, high tannin, very difficult to grow, very difficult to vinify with these extra pips that are in the great, very little juice yield, but off a high yielding vine. Just sounds like a real challenge to get lovely wine from this grape, but you read about the history of Grignolino and having this really celebrated history, way back into the thirteenth century, actually, in Piamonte. And then you know, having, having really been grown quite widely in Pemonte. And then now there's this very little very little area dedicated to Grignolino. And I've tried so being in this tiny market here in Victoria, I have never tried Greenally no, never seen it. And then one bottle came up in our market, and I tried it. And it was, really really kind of challenging wine. It made me think about, you know, this grape and the and the acidity, the the pips, because it was it was, there was an astringency that was really quite challenging to this wine. So I thought that okay. That solves the the puzzle for Greeniolino for me, but then I saw Aquornero's wine come up on our market, and I grabbed it right away, and it was such a revelation. This wine made me realize why this grape has this storied history. And it just it just all came alive to me when when everything you read comes to life in a glass, it's kind of this really geeky epiphany that is so wonderful. And I was so curious about how they managed to achieve this. And, and now I get to ask her. So how exciting is that? No. That's cool. And, actually, you sort of, anticipated the question I was gonna ask was how did you discover the wine? So you you came upon it one day, in a store, but, So I guess my my next question would be what what are the learning objectives? Like, you've already sort of touched on that, but what what would you like the audience to learn from the interview? Yeah. I'm really, interested in two basic objectives. Well, Franchesca, they at Ecore narrow, they make a wide range of wines, but I really am curious about Grignolino today. So I'm hoping she's okay with just talking about that. It just and then touching on the other ones, of course, of course curious about that too. But the two main objectives, involve, firstly, the grade, Greeniolino, the if she can talk about those challenges in the vineyard and in the in the, winery as well and how they managed to overcome those, to make this beautiful wine. And then the second objective really, really involves the marketing of this wine. So I'm wondering about the challenges marking, of marketing a lesser known grape like Renewalino to market like the one I live in, in North America here. So, you know, how how challenging is it to reach people in markets like us? And then also with marketing, how challenging is it to enter a monopoly system? Like the government monopoly that, really controls imports here where I live. So so basically, yeah, just, looking at those two just simple learning objectives. No. That's awesome. No. The perfect. Okay. Yeah. I know. So I guess my my next thing here is Francesca, are you there? Hi, Joy. Nice to meet you. It's a pleasure for me to meet you. Lovely to meet you too. So now that you're both there, I'm going to mute myself and come back after. Yeah. There might be a question or two. And, if we have time, and go ahead, take it away, Peggy. Thanks, Joy. Tell Franchesca. Oh, this is so long. Hi, Peggy. How are you? What great. How are you doing? I'm fine. Thanks. I'm I'm fine. We finished we finally finished the harvest. That was very soon this year. We finished two weeks ago, and now we have a lot of job in in the cellar, but it's okay. We like, a lot. Oh, okay. Our job, our passion. Well, I could tell by your wine, but, I'm so thankful you took the time to talk to us today. And I realized, yeah, this is very busy. Even a message you, I felt guilty every time taking you away from your work. But I'm so happy to introduce you. You represent the sixth generation of winemakers of at Coronero, And your family, your family's wondering is located in the the beautiful commune of in the province of Alexandria between the I'm gonna butcher this Tonaro River or a tanaro. Sorry. I don't know which it is. Thank you. See. And I you're farming over thirty hectares of land I see and produce a range of wines from Malvizia, Decasorso, Frreza, Balpera, and others, which, of course, include Cornelulino. Franchesca and her family, everybody have been very successful with this difficult grape. It's described as an anarchist grape by Luigi Verneli. So actor Nero's work with Grenellino has obviously solved the puzzle of this difficult grape in DeGada describes Acornero's Rico Delbosco Pignolino as a, quote, spectacular wine that showcases the variety's many charms. It is refined, lifted, and perfumed, or in a word, beautiful. It is light on its feet, but penetratingly precise exactly what a green yulino should be about. So I love this description by, De Gada, of your Bico Delbosco. It describes the wine's levity for me. It reminds me of why we should love refined wines and these wines with finesse that we sometimes forget about. And I love this wine and can't wait to talk about this wine and the process with you, the lovely Jessica, Gordonaro. So thank you for for doing this. I'll start with my first question. Can you talk about where you're located then in Monterato about, you know, and the, and the area that you farm and and, where these plots are located. Yeah. Thank you, Peggy, for your beautiful words about, Grenolino and, about TAS. It's a pleasure for me to be part of this, enrollment today. And, yeah, we live, in Vignale Mufferato. That is a beautiful village in Mufferato, hell of granulino. Because, find on our territory, the best condition to produce a very high quality granulino. Vinale is in the area that, in terms of history is the oldest territory where it's documented granulino. In fact, the first written document, in which Grignolino is mentioned, is a date of rent, dated twelve forty nine, transcript by the monks of the Church of Casalamo Ferato. So, Casales area is, the oldest territory of Grignolino. And, we have, as a, as, you say, an historical seller in Vignale, that my family bought in eighteen ninety seven, And, yeah, I represent the sixth generation now. We have, thirty hectares, and we cultivate mainly, Barbara and Drignorino. They're the two most important grapes. But we also cultivate, we also cultivate, and also little productions of in a little productions. But the main grapes are Barbera and Grignolino. Our, Prince of the Monterato. Wow. That's, that's so lovely. I love the description. This the, the description of this being the oldest territory for Greeniolino is so, really clears up a lot of questions for me about the history. This is so interesting. So In your thirty hectares of of, area, of course, some some of it is for green ueno. Can you talk about the percentage of that thirty hectares? That how much of that area is actually dedicated to green ueno? Yeah. We have a thirty hectares of, which, twenty are dedicated to, Barbara and the ten are around ten are dedicated to the other varieties. In particular, five are dedicated to, five actors. Thank you. That's lovely. And so I'm curious about the expression of Green Yulino according to where it's grown. I seem to to it looked like there were separate plots for Green Yulino. And I'm curious if the expression of the grape varies depending on those different plots due to maybe soil or exposure or even altitude. Can you talk about that? Yes. Yeah. We have in, in Mufferato, we are around the, three hundred meters of altitude. And, we have, especially, limestone soils, very particulars. That gives, the characteristic spice in once to granulino. Oh. And, in particular, the the area is also known for having a very particular terroir that is called the that is a very fragile terroir that the winemakers choose only to cultivate the most noble varieties like Renewalino. And, I don't know if you ever ever heard about, the, but it's, our traditional stone, of which the inferno are made. The inferno are, the underground rooms of Mufferato underground sellers were in the past, that were used for the preservation of wines and food. And, that were dug in the early nineteen. And, thanks to the inferno The in the Moferrato area in a two thousand fourteen have included Moferrato in the unesco world heritage. That is something. That is still my exact and and rightly. So So I had not actually heard this word. So the infernardo, that I'd I'd of course, right about that, but can you tell us very slowly, the word for the specific word describing this terroir Pietra and I guess. Is a particular limestone that we have in Moferrato. I love that. Is it the most typical terroir. Wow. That that's lovely to get all this juicy information. Thanks. And I've also read if, if you could talk about this, vignale, Mone Ferato, being regarded as a a ground crew site for Greeniolino. So is this is this linked because, like, can you, just solve this problem? Is is it linked to the terroir and also the history? Is this is this the reason for it being regarded as this grand cruise? It's or is it, is it for some other reason? Yeah. Vignale, at first is the oldest, Vignale area. So the CAS area, as I told you, is the oldest territory for Grignolino. And in specific, Vignale, is a going through area because we are in, Divayna of a child. Is this translation. So in ita in Italian. That is a very unique subsoil, where we have, this particular fossil, Samsung's with, that they have, like, small folds that are precisely chalk crystals. And this soil is very precious because, gives, the death and elegance to granulina. So, it's a very unique geological situation that we have, only in Vignale. So it's, the reason why we have, this, And also, is, in the Casa Lizzy area is, the most, cultivated, vineyard area. We are in, around the fifteen producers in, the area of Vigna, that, is a quite a good number of wineries. Mhmm. For for Guignorino. Wow. And is this do you predict I wonder if you can make a prediction for us do you predict, perhaps more vineyard area dedicated to Greenilino in the future or perhaps just status quo staying the same or or even, not at not as much, land dedicated to Grignolino in the future. What are your predictions for that? Yeah. Grignolino is a very indigenous grape. So, is, has a a lot of connection to the territory, the original territory. So, probably, Grenolino, in my opinion, will improve, in the in the future. I hope, but in a his, original territory. So, Casaleza, and Estigiano, we have these two main, Moferrato areas. The Casaleza, where the capital is and also the Estigiano area where the capital is Porta camaro. These are these the two main areas for Grignolino. Two completely different Grignolino, but, the the most important, areas So probably the Grenarino, I hope that I hope that he will increase in his territory. I hope so too. Yeah. For my selfish reasons. Can you talk about also the growing of Green and Lino? We've, we have information about it being, you know, so challenging because it's susceptible to disease and also the the yields. Could you talk about that for us? Yeah. Is, yes, is a very, very challenging, grape because, is a delicate, and, is a delicate grape that, the producer need to take care more, than the others. In particular, the, Grenolino, as the Nebula, for example, is very sensitive to the powdery mildew. That is a fungal disease. I don't know if you've ever heard about that. In Italian, it's called OIDio that we treat, with, sulfur treatments. And also is, very delicate with the botryte. So we prevent the botryte by airing the bunches very well and making pre harvest selections. So before the harvest, we, we passed every bunches to, only select the best, grapes. Wow. I found out. And to to to air better the the vineyards. That's so interesting. So it's the labor required to grow. Greenilino is sounds extraordinary. I didn't realize the the but try this, that it's susceptible to that. So so the so there's green harvesting, and that the I've read somewhere also that there is possible asynchronous year, ripening where where maybe some grapes on the bunch are fully ripe while others are not quite ripe. Is this a challenge? Or does this seem with the green harvesting? Does this seem to mitigate or to, to help that, the grapes actually ripen evenly because of that work. Yeah. The one, the thing that I want to to tell first is that, Danielino, needs specific, places, places to be cultivated. He needs, well exposed, places. So probably, if you choose not the right place, you can have problems with the maturation of the grapes. We have, a vineyard of Grignolina that is called Brico del Bosco. That is in the southeast disposition. So Southeast is the best to choose because it's a windy and is a windy place. And so, is the best, if you want to plant granulino. So, if, and the the granulino grows in the right areas, so well exposed, has a problem with the the maturation. So as an homogeneous maturation. If, it's not cultivating the right places. So, so, for example, it's the North Hills, so not so sunny or so windy. You can have problems. I see. But, sounds like it is so finicky. This is great. So you happen to have Yeah. It's very difficult. You have two shoes while, the place is very important. We have a unique partner of five actors in Brico del BOSco. That is this very, very well exposed hill. Is a Brico that in the payment dialect means at the top of the hill, So it's a very, a very high altitude. So windy plates, and it's the best for granulino. Usually, the braco, so the highest positions are dedicated for Greenulino, of course, because it's the most noble grape. So the best, the best disposition are dedicated for Greenulino. Oh, so glad. I had no idea. Yeah. It really required this, very, very careful, site selection, and that it's it it is so challenging to grow on other sites. So I'm so glad it it is given this honorary status because I think, oh, I just love being the Elinos that isn't, isn't a parent already. So in the in the winery, you, you you take these precious grapes And, and for vilifying this, this wine, can you talk about, this process? Because that's a whole new set of challenges. There's, you know, temperature for fermentation, and curious about, how you what your choices are with fermentation, the temperature, the vessel, and also the maceration method. I think I'm most curious about this just having read about these extra hips, these extra seeds in the grape and how how you have to be careful to manage that. I'm wondering if you can talk about this, this, this aspect of making making granilina wine. Yes. Sure. So the most important thing is that, the granolino being a a group of, and to say So, but with a good presence of peeps, so of tannins, given by the grape seeds, you must, start the harvest from a completely ripe grapes. It's very important. So, we, don't we before we, make analysis of the maturation, not only the phenolic maturation, but also the, seeds maturation. That is the most important for glenarina. Because we want to have, completely ripe grapes. It's the first, most important thing. Then, for the minification of the classic Breenolino prequoted Bosco, the temperature of fermentation is around twenty six degrees. Then, we make, the last days. And then, usually, we make, short macerations, so of around one week, with the soft pumping over. Because, Grignolino is a very delicate wine. And, so, you don't have you, have to do soft pumping over and not so long macerations and not to extract, too much standing. So to have a balanced wine. That's so interesting. Sorry. Yeah. So this is, for the classic Renewalino Brico del Bosco. We use, steel tanks, for, the verification. And usually, we bottle the wine in the first months of the years. So in the January, February, after the August. That's so, that's so interesting. I wonder if I could ask a follow-up question. How do you test the, maturation? How do you how do you determine when there is that phenolic ripeness especially in the seeds that you mentioned, which is so interesting. Do you do you use laboratory analysis, but do you also use do you also look at the seeds and bite the seeds? Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available from mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine including Italian wine unplugged. The jumbo shrimp guy to Italian wine, sangiovese Lambrusco, and other stories, and much much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. Yes. We collaborate with, an external technologist that has his own, laboratory. And, every day during, and before the harvest, we make exams of the grapes. And we, we are best, only when the grapes are completely ripe. Yeah. And it's very important, especially for granulino, but also for the other for all the grapes. But in particular, for the granulino, also to avoid the the bitterness of the wine, because if you if you harvest, too early. The wine is not so balanced, and you can have a a bitter sensation that is not, so good. So And is a the characteristic that, shows, at too early on our list. Right? Which I may have tasted in the first bottle. I'm wondering about the time of harvest, then you obviously have to be so careful to, pick only only completely ripe grapes. And you were mentioning harvest was finished, two weeks ago. Is this this is different this year than previous years for the harvest of Green Milino. Yeah. This year was particularly strange because, we had a very, very dry season. Summer season was completely dry. We haven't, rain during, the old summer, but we also had, a very dry winter. So, it was a a very, strange, our harvest is a comp for us, a completely new, experience of harvest. We start, at, in the, twenty eighth of August. So very, very soon. Usually, we start, in the middle of September. So around fifteen or twenty days earlier than the normal, because of this very dry season. I don't know in Canada, but in a Italy and general Europe, was a very dry summer and also very hot. So the Of course, harvest goes very fast also the maturation. And we we had to to harvest, very soon this year. Yeah. So in general was a strange harvest. But usually, in a an enormous situation, we harvest in the middle of September. Yes. We do. We do get news of of the drought happening, especially in Northern Italy. And it was very unfortunate photos of of the repercussions of that. And, it's yeah. I'm sorry to hear it's it's so difficult, and I'm I hope for a rain and a wet the water reserve. We hope it's so much for rain as normal. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, we had our first rain submit for months, but we are not in the middle of a three year drought, like, Like, I wonder if you're you're on it's the drought this summer in the previous winter has been compounded by dry years previous to that, which is, just makes that even even more dire. So we'll do the rain dance here for you. And I'm wondering who I we hope so much. Yeah. I hope so. Franchesca, you talked about the answer sign ins, that Greeniolino is, I think you said, poor of anthocyanins. And, for me, I am very curious about this because I love wines with, grace and finesse, like, your Bico Del Vasco. But I'm curious how other winemakers might view this, you know, this absence or this lower, level of anthocyanins or type of anthocyanins that might be more, I don't know, more acceptable, I guess, in in foreign markets. So, is this something that winemakers think about when, vinafine, you know, with the, the, you know, lighter, a much lighter color of the wine that will result, given the the type of anthocyanins in the level, but also given the shorter maceration that you must do in order to preserve this beautiful, you know, wine texture and flavors. Is this something in the back of winemaker's minds that, oh, this is a light colored wine, and this might be a challenge to export. Is this something you think about? No. I think that, the light color is not a problem. If you think, also are not deeply colored wine, but, they are drank all over the world. So in reality, the light color is not, a problem. I think, is one of its best, features because it gives identity to the wine. The color of of Grignolino is unique. It's a ruby color, really unique that you can find only on the Grignolino. And so is, for a for me, it's a plus. It's, one of the best, feature of, of the new line. Oh, I love that. Because he's a unique, he's a unique wine. So Yeah. And we I love so much in his color, and I think that, is not a problem. I a hundred We had, we had never we had never had the problems, when we pre when we showed granulina, we we never had problems with that. Oh, that's And also, if you go, beyond the the color, you feel the elegance of the wine, the spicy, the mineral. So, in reality, the color is Yes. He's a the identity, an, an identity of the wine, but also his, elegant structure. I love I love the way you describe this. I love the way that you're in its corner because I pour wine for a living, and I I find myself night after night having to sometimes, apologize for elegant wines strangely. But I I love. I love the way you say it gives it its identity. I feel like, you're inspiring me to own this in a different way rather than excuse or, tell people, oh, you know, explain, explain the anthocyanins or explain the line. I feel like, your answer is very inspiring to just own it and say this is its identity and just and, you know, be more celebratory of it And I'm so glad, that, that is never a problem. I really wish for more green and lino in our markets. So so perhaps your approach is gonna be helpful with this I'm curious about so you, I so I have tried the the this classic style that you're talking about, the Pico de Bosco. But I have read about the Vigna Vecia, and I'm Probably butchering that name. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And, so I've only read about this wine because we have not we are Our government has not brought that in. So, I've read that this style has recently been resurrected, as a traditional style from two hundred years ago called Greeniolino Storico. And seems tricky. Yeah. So I'm curious about this. If, like, about this history and also if the, the identification of this wine is made in in response to this or in honor of this? Yes. Granulino. Yes. We have, these two, selections of granulino, bricolor boss co, and the Brico de Bosco Vigna Voca. That is our, reserva of Grignolino. And, yeah, the style of, winemaking is inspired by the most traditional method because, in the past, especially in the early twentieth century, Grignolino was a very precious PMount wine, equal to Barrolin Marbellesco. And was the wine that was the most vocation to be an excellent aging wine, especially for his tonic structure. So, our winery wants to, remake this old tradition style. So, in two thousand six, where where we start to produce this, selection we select our oldest parcel of Brico del Bosco that is a vineyard of sixty one. And, from here, we start, to make a master selection of his very old original clone because, the the the clone of this old parcel has, has no more available because he's a very old clone of Grignolino. We, remake this old vineyard to produce our, Brico Vasco Vigna Reserve. Is a production of, around only four thousand five hundred bottles. And we arrest the wine thirty months internal barrels and the twenty four months of aging in bottle. It's very difficult also to find because we have a very, very limited production of this granulino. So, for example, the granulino brickellel Bosco, we make around, twenty thousand bottles. Of this, only four hundred five, four thousand five hundred. So it's more difficult to find also, abroad because we have a very, very, very little production. But, I hope that you will, find also, I'm so I'm so curious about this one. I've read a quote about it saying, so this is from, again, Ian Degeda. He says Akorinero is a producer who manages to Oak Greeniolino splendidly. And their Rico Delvascovina Vecia is a work of art, but not everyone in the denomination is as gifted. So I love when I read things like this, it just I'm ready to drop everything and travel and find this line. It's so interesting also that you not only are you reviving this, this old style in this, the oldest traditional area. I had no idea that you are doing massive selection for the oldest clones as well. So it's it's this beautiful, coming together of tradition in this bottle. I I'm dying to try this one. So I will be doing my research as soon as I finish this and see where to get it in Canada. This is very difficult to, to find wines. I can't the, I hope to ask you about this later on, but anyway, it's very difficult to just, you know, bring wines in. We're we're actually prevented from doing so. So I have to go and get go myself. Which will be okay. Okay. But Yeah. I I know. Yeah. So Franchesca, I have a very important question. Okay. Yes. I saw a great photo of you. You're reporting lines And you have this, red t shirt on, and it said in big letters, Greeniolino girl, right across the front, and I've been needing to ask this question for some time. I think this is the pivotal question everybody in the audience Yeah. I know. I know. I know. I know. The that we need to know where can I get a t shirt like this? I know. I know that it's very nice, but I think that, you can find it in Canada because, we wear this t shirt very nice, Grignolino Girl, for the, women producers and Grignolino Boy for the men producers for, a special event that was, a tasting of, only granulino. We with the most, granulino producers of Mufferato. And so we decided to, to wear this very nice teacher altogether. So it was a very nice event that we made, last summer. Unfortunately, I think that is not, available in Canada, but, So, also, when I show my granulino Oh. Because, la it's my favorite one. And so Oh, well, I I think if, you know, determined it is, I dream about this wine. So I I dream about I think I'm gonna have to resurrect. I'm gonna have to create a Greenian Lino club here and get t shirts modeled after yours. But, but now I have a very nice idea. I have a new travel plan. I think I'm gonna have to, come visit during these, this special tasting of only Greeniolino in Montarato. That sounds amazing as well. So it sounds like you have a tight community that is, that kind of rallies around this grape. Do you feel like, like, I'm just so curious because this other wine that I tried is so different from the wines you produce. And, of course, you you have solved this puzzle of this grape, to make these beautiful wines. Do you do you have a solid community of growers that that rallies around this grape? And is this is this something that is More meaningful than just making a wine exporting or selling the wines. Is does this great represent something deeper for you as producers? Sorry, Peggy. I asked you to repeat, sir. Because I don't understand completely the answer. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't I didn't write this one out for you. Good question. Sorry. I'm curious if the community of growers in Mont Ferato Yeah. Okay. Are if if Greeniolino symbolizes something deeper. If it is if it's important, like, at a different level, then say, other wines that that people make if it if it is something that's more special. Yes. Of course, for, for us, for, the Mufferato growers Mufferato in makers, the Greniolino is our identity because, it represents the identity of our territory. So it's the most noble and, indigenous grape of Mufferato. And, I think that is, the best ambassador of our, of our territory. So, in, first of all, the Greenmarine, I think that is, the best to to to understand our territory. Is a it has all the characteristic that, that shows, our soils, our, beautiful, territory. So in my opinion. Then also, Barbera is very important in our territory. I don't know if you have ever, a taste, some Barbera of Mufferato that is, with the granulino, the most important variety, because of the two that represents a lot, our history, our territory. So, we, we want to to present them at the same level. They are our most important grapes. That's so interesting. Can can you talk about the, so I've read I've read a little bit about Barbara and, Green Elino, doing a little flip in history. And I see it it is so Barbara is so, I feel like it is, it's more well known, I think, in my market here. But I'm curious about this this slip in history that I've read about. I've read that in the thirteenth century, you're you're quoting that document in twelve forty nine, I think you mentioned. During that time, Renewalino was reserved for just the noble people and, Barbara was was only avail was the only wine available for the peasants, which is so interesting. And I, and I'm curious about, I guess, why that flip has it's not really a flip because Greniolino is, of course, the highly coveted wine that represents your identity here. But why how has Barbara come back to, gain equal footing with Greniolino and and many other grapes? In, and become a noble grape in Pimonte. Yeah. It is right because, Barbara in the past was has not the same importance that has now. Barbera was, the daily wine so that, that people drink for every day, very, good, daily wine for, you know, the, for all the people. So was, the most to cultivate, like, also today, because, Barbara, he's, a more, has a more, is a more quantity grade. So in Avignard, of Burberry, you can have a a bigger yields also between two to Grignolino. So it was, the most cultivated grape, and it's not such difficult like, Grenolino. So you can have very high quality, barbera in different, exhibitions, So, for example, you can choose for Barbera, southeast position, but also East disposition. You can choose limestone, but also clay that, in Mufferato is is the second most important terroir. So you can have a more more choice. On Grenorino, you have to follow his laws. So you need to follow specific conditions. If you want to a high quality wine. Barbara is, is a easier to is an easier, is is easier to quantify and also to cultivate. So it's the first, in terms of quantity. In the past as, was the classic daily wine, but, with the the study, with the the, the knowledge also of the new generations of moin makers, the, the more more fairato, but also all over PM on the the producers. They discovered the high potential of Barbara. So Barbara can is not, only a daily wine, but you can also have a very, high quality wines, also very long lasting wines with the very important structures. So, but it's a new, in reality, a new d discover for Barbara. It's a, Barbara in the past was the daily wine. Now, has his very his importance. But is a new discover. That's so I love the description of this of the, of the meaning of these wines is so helpful to people like us, wanting to clarify the history It just helps us under this that your explanation is fantastic. And I'll ask just to I know you said that there's, twenty hectares earlier in the interview. You mentioned twenty hectares. Yes. She voted to Barbara. And I know Stevie would ask this question. She's not here today. So how what is the volume of protection for Barbara from, for you? Yeah. For Barbara, in total, we have five different selections. So, a quite good amount. And, in total, we produce around the half of our production. So, sixty thousand bottles of Alberta. Oh, great. And then so That's so lovely. And I I see that I'm kinda getting a little short of time. Can I talk about the the marketing of, grignonino? And maybe the the talk about Barbara is so helpful because it's a more well known grape and wine here in in North America. I'm curious, I guess, I'll ask first, about the challenges of entering this specific market. So I found your wine, the Brico Del Vasco, the classic, one. Yeah. Here on our government, liquor store shelves. So I live in in Victoria, as I mentioned. It's in the province of British Columbia, and it is a very big area. And it is controlled by our government, a government body, the BCLDB, And they controlled that enter our entire province. So it means that everything I see has been at any wine in a restaurant on a shelf has come through them. So I'm curious, I've heard it's notoriously difficult to enter this market. Can you talk about how this how you magically brought your wines to us, through this process? Yeah. Okay. So, first of all, then, I want to say that, in recent years, the the interest, in native grave, inactive graves like Renewalino has grown a lot. And, in our case, for example, in November twenty twenty, we had the pleasure to welcome, in our winery, the journalist, Mikaela Morris. Of Vancouver. She's, a very, very important international wine writer that collaborate also with the counter. Probably, you know her. And she visit as, in November twenty twenty, because, she was in, PMund, and she write an article in the counter for us. And insert our, on her top fine wines of twenty twenty. So, for us, was, such a, an important, recognition for us. And, after that, we have been contacted by our actual distributor in British Columbia. That is, Janik Trafot. He has the company Crutel wire Wine spirits, And there, and she follows our markets. So, she he will she sorry. He was able to, to enter in the monopoly of British Columbia. So this is, what we made. That's so lovely. So that that, your distributor did a lot of that footwork, but it all stemmed from Mikaela Morris' visit and then the the article. I'd also seen her in, there was a panel discussion that I and it this was through one of the via materials, and gosh, And I I can't remember exactly which one, but I remember, hearing her on the panel, really, really kind of, champion the great. And I actually messaged her and just asking if she knew where this video was located so that I could watch again in preparation for our chat, but she, she couldn't find it if I ever remember where where it was or for what occasion. So that was unfortunate. But I sadly missed this, article. I'm gonna check this out and, Yeah. Yeah. You you probably will, we're still fine. You you will still find the article in, the counter. That's great. So I will also I'm really happy to hear who your distributor is so I could contact them because, sadly, I've I've bought all your own. So there's none left on ourselves. And, it's very challenging to talk to actually a a person about, you know, are these wines gonna be are these wines gonna return for us next year? And and, I'm gonna and now I know the source. I'm gonna I am on it. I'm your, I'm on the ground for this because I don't know what I'm gonna do next year if I can't find your wine. So I'm I'm just so happy to to hear about, hear all about Greeniolino. I wonder if I can ask one more question. Yes. Of course. Okay. When you're drinking Greeniolino, I guess the classic, what are you gonna eat with it? Ah, yes. Yeah, granulino, in my opinion, you can blend with many dishes. But my favorite co favorite combinations are, with the, for example, the tartar of a fastona, Pemonteza. In my opinion, also with fish is very interesting. And also with, roast rabbit, for example, is very nice. So but but you can have a lot of combinations with granulino. Okay. Thanks. So it's a very, versatile wine to to drink with many dishes. I think so too. I, I would often it I would often be amazed when, when there's, foods that are difficult to match with wine, I think, oh, I'm gonna get the green, you know, and every time it is wonderful. I think it's the earthiness, the slight earthiness, and that spice you spoke about, the the limestone perhaps, accentuating that spice, that slight white pepper, which, which I love. It's, the wine is incredible. I hope everybody goes out and tries to find it, but doesn't buy it all, so I don't have any. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I I'm so excited. Thank you very much, begging. I'm so much today. I'm I'm thrilled to have been able to talk to you. Thank you so much for for all your your time and your wonderful knowledge and enthusiasm. I'm so inspired. Thank you, Franchesca. Thank you, Peggy. I hope to see you one day in person. I I would love to meet you. Joy. Thank you so much for, for this opportunity. I'm so excited. No. That's wonderful. That was a great conversation. Actually, we have one question for Franchesca. We're just about out of time because we have two minutes left. So, Franchesca, there's a question from hi. There's a prep question from Paul Bologna, and he says my question relates to the VINification of Grignolino. My first that I ever had was about twenty five years ago, and the wine I tasted had a copper color and lacked fruitiness. But now I enjoy very balanced enjoyable What's the difference between then and now the site? Okay. Yeah. Probably now with the new, technologies, with the new knowledge, we are able to, give the higher qualities in all over the, the ones in particular that is particularly difficult to five. So now we are able to make, soft, pumping over, soft, pressing. So, now I think that, in general, the the quality of the granular lino has improved a lot. Especially for, the new knowledge and new technologies that we use in the cellular. Okay. Okay. Great. So I I I guess that's that's that's a great thank you for very much for that, Paul. I'm gonna I'm gonna close the room in a just a second, Leika. Do you know who we have next time for Clubhouse Ambassador corner? Hi. So for next week, we're going to have two clubhouse sessions So it's going to be, on October twenty seventh, Thursday, Susanna Gold, she's back, and she's going to interview Valeria Redicie Odero. And on October twenty eighth, on Friday, Joanne Harnish is also back, and she will be interviewing Katarina Sartarelli. So that's it for now, and thank you so much for your time, everyone. Thank you to you. It was a pleasure. Thanks. Thank you. Have a wonderful day. Bye bye. Tao. You too. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye, Peggy. Bye. Bye. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.