Ep. 1345 Barbara Fitzgerald Interviews Claudia Cigliuti | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

By now, you've all heard of Italian wine Unplugged two point o. The latest book published by Mamma jumbo shrimp. It's more than just another wine book. Fully updated second edition was inspired by students of the Vin Italy International Academy and painstakingly reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professor Atilio Shenza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. The benchmark producers feature is a particularly important aspect of this revised edition. The selection makes it easier for our readers to get their hands on a bottle of wine that truly represents a particular grape or region to pick up a copy, just head to Amazon dot com, or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversate on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to rod and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay. Welcome everybody to Club House, Ambassador's Warner. My name is Joy Livingston, and I am standing in for Stevicam. She is currently traveling, in New York. And, we wish her all the best out there. This is a, fantastic show. We do every Thursday. Actually, some other days as well. I shouldn't say every Thursday, usually at around six PM. And this is where, our ambassadors from the, Minitally International Academy. They can come on here and interview their favorite producers. And tonight, we have Claudia Chile. I hope I said that correctly, being interviewed by Barbara fits Gerald. So this is our eighty six. Yes. Eighty six clubhouse, which is a lot of club houses, out later. And, we'll have another next Thursday, so stick for the announcement at the end. I'll probably like it to do that for me at the end to tell us who else is coming on next. But for today, I'm gonna introduce you Barbara just quickly. Barbara Fitzgerald, via IWA twenty twenty three from Barona. In Verona, rather. And Barbara is an Italian American whose family is among the California wine industry pioneers. Her great grandfather, an immigrant from Tuscany, obtained the fourth wine growers license in the state so Italian wine and culture is a part of her DNA armed with passion and a lifetime of living in the industry. Barbara decided to build a career outside of her family's legacy. And over the past decade, she's been a powerhouse in direct to consumer marketing and strategy, helping wine brands find exponential increases in revenue, brand awareness, and customer base. She's also deeply committed to increasing sustainability in agriculture and equity, diversity and inclusion through the industry. Barbara currently lives most of the time in Sonoma County, spending a few months of the year in Puriya. So Barbara, that was, gosh. Okay. So you were in Verona this year. So you just got back then. Yes. Yes. How would how's the trip back? Oh, it was so easy. It's always bitter, sweet. I, you know, I love every moment that I get to be in Italy, and I'm always a little sad when we come back. But then I get here, and I'm reminded Sonoma County is incredible. So Well, I I guess my before I let you go, I'm gonna ask you a couple of geeky questions. Yes. So how do you discover the wines of agenda, Agricola? Chile would be? So I discovered Chibid the eleven years ago. My husband and I, were on our honeymoon in, Italy, and we, asked one of our my husband and I also make wine. And so we asked one of our reps, if he could suggest the best wineries to go to. And so it happened that Claudia and I were on the same distributors book, with Indigenous, which doesn't even exist anymore. But he said Chile Dean and and Claudia was the top of his list. So Awesome. And and in terms of of the audience, what do you what do you want people to take away from the interview? What do you what what are the learning objectives that we should expect? I would love for people to really learn, about the dedication it takes to farm grapes for quality and true expression of sight. What it means to run a multi generational wine business, especially in an area as prestigious as Piamonte, and, the challenges and maybe even triumphs of, of female wine grower, winemaker, business owner. But overall, I think Claudia just has so much passion and and gusto, and she's just a joy to listen to listen to. So Okay. Fantastic. Well, I guess, without further ado, I I should say before I I hand over is that this will be replayed on the Italian wine podcast in the coming weeks. And, yeah, at the end, I'll come back if there there are any questions. Usually, there isn't. There are sometimes, but people are shy. That's fine. But, I'll talk to you guys in the end. Go ahead. Take it away. Wonderful. Well, I'll just tell you very briefly why, I picked Claudia as my favorite producer. It's pretty difficult to wrap into a a compact package because there are so many reasons. But like I said, I met her, eleven years ago when I visited her winery. And she was a little late for our tasting, because she was doing some green harvest in the vineyard and lost track of time. So she came running into the driveway so apologetic, of course, but the vineyard couldn't wait, and I completely understood that having a family and wine growing as well. But I was just taken with her in an instant. Some things that I have always remembered about her was as she took us around her very historic vineyards. She continued to green harvest as she was explaining everything to us. Anything that didn't look exactly right on the vine. She she fixed it there in that moment. She wore a little, fanny pack that had kind of vine zippers in it so that she could tend to these things in any given moment. And she even when she took us into her winery to taste the wine removed her shoes before entering because her shoes had been too dirty from working in the vineyard all morning. And I just the level of respect for this place and this craft was really moving. So her wines can be difficult to find in California, but I never read a wine list or visit a wine shop without without looking for it. So, anyway, without further ado, I'd love to introduce you to Claudia. Hi, Claudia. Are you there? Hello. I'm there. Good. First of all, I apologize for my last name, which is so complicated to pronounce. So it's a chill duty. So I apologize about that. Oh, no apologies. I'll I'll just give a brief bio about, Claudia, and then we can I'll ask you some questions. So Claudia is born in nineteen seventy four. She studied actually tourism at a school in Alba. And growing up, she helped her parents a lot in the vineyard, but in that period, she didn't really dream of pursuing a career in the wine industry. But when she was about twenty years old, she started working full time for her family, agenda, Agri Cola Fratelli Chiviutin. And then her younger sister, Sylvia followed after her five years, studying analogy and also came to work with the family. So they are the fifth generation, and Claudia and Sylvia run the company with their parents, Surinato and Dina. And they spend most of their time in the vineyard. So Claudia manages most of the administrative aspects of the business including marketing and exports and her sister works, mostly in winemaking. But again, as a whole family, they're all in the vineyard together. So they're just a small team of six people. The family, and then they have two additional employees. Did I get that all right? Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Everything is good. Okay. So I'm gonna ask you some questions. Yes, please. So what was it like growing up in Barbara? Is it kind of like, you know, an industry town where everything revolves around winemaking and Viticulture? Yes. I I grew up in neither. Nave is one of the three villages where barbaresco is produced. And, when I was a a child, my family was poor. So the countryside, when I was born, I was still a kind of a poor area. And I remember that my, for example, my cousins that, as my uncle, made a different job were much luckier than me. So I live there in a in a all the period of of growth of this area. So from the poor countryside to the richness, from local sales to export, from no tourism to UNESCO heritage, where we are now from low quality wines to great quality wines. In fact, we have had been in, in the eighty six, a biggest scandal, of Metamal scandal, that, torture the the the people to drink a little bit less, but spending a little bit more money choosing for quality. So this was the big movement from, quantity, wine, to quality wine. And, a lot of things changed in, forty years of my life. I'm almost fifty, but I keep still being in the forties. And, so I was, at that time, I what I noticed, the relation relationship, between producer was very close. And the producer, met, very often. The the few producer making quality back in the in the sixties, seventies, my father's friends met quite often to taste the day wines together to, when a good wine app and they say, oh, wow. A good wine. How did you do? So It was a lot of, exchange ideas about, winemaking and, etcetera. And, I was, very lucky to to grow in the middle of the vineyard and the hazelnuts. We also have hazelnuts in the valley where it's not a good, area for for Venus production. And, but, of course, when I was a teenager, And in summertime, I was helping my parents, work in the vineyards. I I was asked to help, of course, because, all day school are are quite long. In Italy, three months, and the summertime, in the countryside is the busiest time. And so I was helping the vineyard saying, of course, I didn't dream to to continue with this, with this business. Actually, when I was a teenager, being a farmer's daughter was sometimes embarrassing. So, to talk, with my my friends. And, of course, I was dreaming, something different. This is why I choose the school for tourism because my dream was to travel, etcetera. But, when I was twenty years old, I totally understood that my future couldn't be in a different place than this yard. So I still I'm still living in the same yard where I grew up where my father, my grandfather, were born, and I feel very lucky for that. Oh, yeah. What an incredible yard that is. Not many of us have UNESCO world heritage yards. Yeah. Very busy. Yes. Sometimes. Wintertime is a little bit, quieter, but the summertime, become a little bit busy and the noisy. We can say And with the vines that are on your on your vineyard now, when were those planted and who were they planted by? Yeah. So we have a vineyard, so they they are implanted back from my grandfather. Of course, my my father was born just before the second world war. So my father was born in nineteen thirty eight. And, when he was born, I was young, and was helping his father and his uncle, my father just attended the primary school. So it was a period after the second world war when the young guy left the poor countryside to go finding a better fortune in the in the cities. And, the time the agriculture was a mixed agriculture. So they used to have some vineyards, some hazelnuts, some corn, some wheat, the two animals in the stable. But, when my father took the reins of the winer in the sixties, he actually focused more in, in the vineyards who implanted more vineyards and, and, of course, in the in the quality. So they go back to the to the sixties. Some of my father's, oldest vineyards. Wonderful. So your father was one of the original winemakers of Chulud, and what what did you learn from him that you've taken with you? So my farm my father, as I was telling just after ending the primary school and he always have been a great farmer. So from him, I really, learned how to take care of the good care of the vines, respecting the and environments, and, and, of course, having a lot of respect of the vines because they have to leave so many years. And so when you you face, you are in front of a vineyard, the Evine. You don't just work for having that harvest, but you work in a way that, sometimes you have you prefer to lose a little bit of that harvest to to save the future of of the vine. So it's a it's a long it's like having a son, having a child that you grow step by step and you have to keep it for eighty years, you know, even more sometimes. If I remember right, your father was one of the early adopters of green harvests of dropping fruit. Is that is that right? Yeah. That's true. That's true. In fact, in the sixties, the the climate was totally different from nowadays. And the so the the summer, the end of the summer, and that the ultimate was more humid. And the temperature, actually, cooler than now. So it was very important to, to bring harvest. But, of course, for the people who suffered the fame during the second world war, It was very hard to accept that the younger boy was wasting the fruit down. So when they asked my dad, why you do that? Why what's happened? What's wrong with you that you waste the fruit? And my father said I I can't have both quantity and quality. I have to choose and I choose for quality. And, so this is why I started to to bring our rest. Yeah. Italian wine podcast. Brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Is there did he do anything with those dropped grapes? Nothing. No. No. Generally, they generally, we we still, made a green harvest, but we cut them when they are still green, and they, just go on the floor and they dry in a few days because generally we do in summertime, in, in end of July and, beginning of August. So they just dry on the soil. I yes. I witnessed you green harvesting. So what are maybe some things that you had to learn for yourself that, you know, weren't handed down to you? And maybe what are some changes that you've implemented in wine making or wine growing? So first of all, what I I actually, what my father was not able to teach me was out to deal with importers and tastings. So, the public relationship. My father always been a a very shy person working the vineyards. So I remember my first time, I I I had to go at to a tasting, and it was a it happened to be in Switzerland, and I told my dad that why we don't go together so we can, you can teach me And my father said, I'm the worst person to teach you how to deal with the, a public. You will go by yourself. You will observe the other producer, and you will will learn by yourself. And in fact, this is, how I did. So I started to to visit a few customers, and I was a little bit embarrassed, the shy. And I didn't talk too much because I was a little bit, yes, I didn't know if, something was wrong to say in public or not. And, finally, I learned by myself, so now I feel a little bit more, I feel a little bit more easy. Confident. Thank you. Confiden. Yes. And, in actually, the in the wine growing and the wine making, we don't have a lot to we didn't have to change it. A lot from my dad because in the vineyards, he already taught what we are doing now. So I have some friends, my age, they had to fight with the parents because the parents were making quantity. They wanted to make quality because in the nineties, the the market was asking for quality wines. I didn't have, to to face with this problem because already my dad was open in the sixties and started to bring harvest. And, in the winemaking, my father always been, a traditional style winemaker by using the, as La Vonian Oak cask. So also in the cellar, we didn't have to change a lot because, my father always believed that, the Nebula is, is a variety that, doesn't need too much new work, because he's very pure, and so he needs to just reflect the characteristic of the terroir where it's from. So, no, not too many, change, ma'am, we can say. And I can vow that your lines a hundred percent, exhibit that. So So you guys grow Nebula and Barbara. Can you speak to the differences between farming the two and the differences in production methods? Yes. Barbara is a very adaptable variety. In fact, you can implant a barbera in different parts of the world and it actually give good result. While Nebula is a variety that need a special soil, a special exposure, special, climate is a is a very nebula is a longer cycle because it's the first to bat and the last to get ripe. And the barbera, it's, it's generally very generous. In fact, we have to green our rest a little bit stronger. The the barbera than the the biola. And, the barber the actually, the echo, the biola, The problem of of Nebula is that, he only produced on the on the first about the. So this is why in this period, we just finished a few days ago, but in spring, when they start to to bother, there is a, unfortunately, a cutter pillar that, come out only during the night, and we have to go out, in the vineyards to collect this caterpillar because they eat the the the the bother when it is very tender, when it is very small. And so, before it start to to break and the leaves come out. So now we just have the the leaves out and they don't eat anymore. It it can give an another bad because it's early. So another bad can give another stem, but the problem is that Nebula will only produce on the first stem and not on the second. And the while Barbara is generally and can only also produce on the second part. In fact, in two thousand seventeen, we have had a very bad hail storm in in April. And, we had to to prune all the vines another stem came out. So it was nice to have a good stem for the pruning of the next winter. But, we lost, minus eighty percent of the production. So It was just a few grapes, small grapes, one year and another there. So it was very sad. The Sonipiola is, is kind of, complicated sometimes. Yes. Barbara is very, very easy going. We can say. Yeah. And is that the worst hail damage that you've ever seen? We had another one in ninety two. So ninety two when the two thousand seventeen was, far, and so we could have a survivor, but lastly, we don't have this, very bad, okay. We don't know the future, but, so far, we we didn't have, so often. So it it was fine. It was fine. Yeah. Good. And so you talked a little bit already how you make your Nebiolo, but what about production for Barbera? Is it similar? Do you do something different to make the Barbera once it comes into winery? Yeah. Into the winery, we make a little bit longer fermentation for Nebula. And a little bit shorter for for Barbara, which is about eight to ten days for Barbara and twenty for Nebula. And then, Barbara is a wine with, of course, a good concentration of the fruit. But a quite high acidity and doesn't have tannies. So, we noticed that, aging, Barbara in, in Oak, for example, also using French oak is good because make this acidity a little bit rounder. Which is good. While for Nebioolo, we we mostly use the the the biggest Lavonian Oca cask because we want, is a more elegant variety and, very terrain character. So we prefer to use the Zavonian old cask with the agent to just, leave, the characteristic of the wine experience at his best. So transfer the characteristic of the of the vineyards from the vineyards to the bottle, without the oak influence. And on your vineyards, you have Naviolo planted at the at the peaks of the vineyards, and is the barbera then planted in the mid slopes? We can say that, we, implant that we most we have the nebbiolo implanted in the southwest exposure where the soil is chalky. While we have mostly our barbera in the southeast, exposure where the soil is clay. So we are located on the Saraboo E la cru. And we are on the top of the hill, and we have two different exposure. So we, mostly have the de Navolo in in one side and the barbera to the other side, mostly we can say. So then they're both kind of on hillsides, top to bottom. Exactly. But, the bottom of the southwest exposure, actually, we have also Barbera. So we are the the we have done a violo on the the top part of the southwest and the barbera at the bottom, and then mostly barbera on the southeast exposure where the soil is clay. And we have a a few, small, vineyard or maybe also in the southeast facing. Which is now very good because a give, as the climate change a lot, we have a little bit more freshness from those, those vineyards. So And do you notice big differences since you're growing some of some of them in different soils. Do you notice big differences between the grapes grown in the different soils? Not so much from the soil, but mostly from the freshness, from the shadow that, you get, in a warmer summer. So our barbaresco's, generally, in the in the weaker vintages always gave his best because our exposure in Sarabuella is is very good. And Sarabuella is a very, good exposure also because the, the valley is quite wide. So we don't have other hills that make a shadow on it. But, of course, now with this climate changing, we sometimes have a warmer, vintages. So it's good to have, these two vineyard, two parcels. In the southeast, facing that give a little bit more, cooler climate to the to the warmer exposure. So it's it's fine. It's a good it's good to have them to blend together. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of subsidies for your farming and for your production? And do you believe that subsidies can help to level the playing field for large producers and boutique producers in PMonte? So, unfortunately, Italy, there is no distinction between, a small producer who make, for example, thirty thousand bottles and a bigger producer who make one million bottles. So, we have the same treatment from the government, which is not actually, our best, wish because, for smaller wineries like Casa, everybody do everything. We are very busy working the vineyards. So we don't have enough, a resource to have a secretary to have somebody involved in the and the bureaucracy nowadays is becoming becoming really, really, crazy. We would love to spend more time. I would love because the bureaucracy is just on on my person. Unfortunately. But, I would love to to be able to spend more time in the in the vineyards because our job is not to be an accountable, but to be a farmer. So, unfortunately, the Italian government doesn't understand tend this. They should make our life much easier, and it is not like that, unfortunately. So the subsidies just kind of they're not specific. It's not like you get, you know, a specific subsidy for farming and then a specific subsidy for, like, bottling or something like that. You just get one kind of some from them and you can send direct it however you want. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So That's a lit yeah. Like, that's a little different than I think my my romantic view. I come from California where there are no subsidies. So I always thought this romantic view that, oh, you get so much help. It must be so nice, but Yeah. It's not actually Yeah. I like that. Yes. No. We we don't get many, many subsidies. We we would love, only just to to be able to make our our job a little quieter and more relaxed in the vineyards without having too much control. This is just what we ask for. Yes. Yes. That's true. Well, that's a good lead into my next question. So, you know, again, I'm here in California where we don't have any governing body that regulates Viticulture and production. So, you know, we can grow anything anywhere and vinify it kind of however we want. But obviously in Italy, you have the DOP system. So do you think that this benefits both large and small growers and producers and that are there any specific pros or cons to that that you wanna discuss? Yes. Yes. For sure. This is important. It's very important to have, okay. We have the the OC, the OCG. And, we have, a limited area for, for Barbara, Barbara is produced only in three villages, but all only in eleven villages. So they are very strict in, in growing, implanting more, vineyards. And and this is good. This is good because if we listen to some, big producer. We would just open the, the borders and implant the Barri, Barrasco, everywhere. Allow to make Barrasco everywhere, and this is not correct. So I think the the the law we have about the baroque and bar baroque is quite very important. And, and it's good that the the consultant sometimes, of course, look on the how the the the market, for those wines, go. So if there is, a lot of demand and the small quantity available, increase, it can increase about the six actors a year. So every producer can apply, to, to have a a little bit more piece of Barbarisco or Barolo. With some limits with, of course, also the limit of the exposure, etcetera. So it's it's nice that, that we are controlled and, we we we have a system that, that is working. Yeah. Yeah. And then there is the longer denomination where you can experiment. So if, somebody want to implant different varieties, want to implant, outside of the area. So we also have the the the the the the the the denomination to to play with a little bit more often, but, it's good to keep the barolo and bar barreco a little bit strict. Yeah. What are some of the more interesting varieties outside of, you know, the the the others from the long gauge denomination that you've seen planted or the wines that you've tried? In a in our area. Yeah. Yes. Well, we actually okay. Barbera and Nebula is fine. We we I think that the the the this area, most of the producer are staying on the local varieties, indigenous varieties, which is good. In I think in the past, they were experimenting a little bit more. But now they they mostly stay on this indigenous varieties. Probably they are, in, experimenting a little bit more on the whites in Altaanga, which is, of course, higher elevation. And in the bubbles. So we we have an, movement, which is growing, a lot, but is a little bit higher elevation. It's not far from where we are, but higher elevation or where you have, of course, a little bit cooler, climates. Yep. Yeah. That's great. Well, I always appreciate Italian bubbles, so I'm happy about that. Are there any specific challenges you're facing in regards to climate change? And if so, how have you altered your farming to address these? Yeah. This is a question that there is This year, is a terrifying hazard because, we have, a lot of, drought. We really need rain. We were expecting some rain for today, but, not a ride yet. Thankfully, we have had a cold winter. So last year was a kind of, dry, summer, and then it turned to be, kind of good harvest. So the reserve were still, enough. We had a little bit of snow this winter. We we had very little, rain showers, but we really need, more rains to to be able to to harvest this two thousand twenty three. And, generally, with the climate change, which means just a little bit warmer summertime because the the the winter is still cold, which is good for the vegetation for the vineyards. And, we generally leave a little bit more vegetation that make a shadow in the best exposure. So the best exposure, we we don't remove all the all the starters, but we we we keep the summer in the later, June, like that. So they they make a little bit of shadow. And of course, we are reducing a little bit of green harvest. And so if, back in the eighties, seventies and the nineties, we we were making very strong green harvest or also even in fourteen, in two thousand two. So vintages, they were a little bit more humid in summer with more rains in summer. So we reduced a little bit stronger. The green harvest. When it is warm, we reduced a little bit to the the green harvest. So Every I guess everyone is, dealing with similar things. We same in California. We didn't have rain for basically five years. So Yeah. And then you had a lot of snow and the Now this year, this year has been very different. So maybe you're following behind us, maybe next year, be your year. Yeah. Exactly. Hopefully. Are there any specific challenges that you faced or are facing as as a female in in winemaking and wine growing? And has this changed over time? Yes. So in the past, when I was younger, when, of course, was a little bit more difficult because the people in the wine industry didn't care a lot about what a lady was telling, describing about the the wine, the the the farming and the the winemaking because they believe the lady were just staying in the office and taking care of the of the paperworks. But, now it's, it's totally different because there are more, ladies working the, in the wineries. So It's, it's it's totally changed. And, of course, being a a lady sometimes in the in the vineyards can be a little bit hard work because There are still some works that require, men and muscles, but, for most of the works, ladies, I would say that, working in the vineyards are even better than, than male because they have more attention, more careful. And, mostly, the summertime works are made, better by by ladies, I would say. But just because it's it's more, work that requires more attention to detail? Or Exactly. Exactly. For details, patience, having more pay be more patient Yes. This is something for ladies. Yeah. Because when, for example, we green harvest. The green harvest is, so when we green harvest, the grapes are very, are very delicate. When the the grapes are green, are very delicate. So you have to okay. The grapes you cut. Now you decided to cut on the floor, you can treat how you want is not something that you have to be careful. But you need to be careful not touch the grapes you want to leave on the plant on the vine. And generally ladies are more dedicated. It is a part of, of job so they don't touch all the grapes, but they just touch the ones they want to cut. And so this, I think, is something that is much, better for for ladies. Yep. And maybe they have kind of smaller hands too. So Exactly. Exactly. This is also helpful. Who are some of the other Italian female wine growers or winemakers that inspire you? When I started, in the nine in the nineties, helping my, my father. Actually, I I have been, one of the yes. First, the daughters, they they decided to continue with this business. Actually Karabowski, sir, from Barolo was, started already in the eighties, but at that time, I didn't know her. Now I know her very well. And, we are a very good friend. And, and nowadays, there is, Scavino, sisters, Martha. And carlo Terinald. So there are there are many, many, many, ladies in the wine business and, in the wine, pro production. And, I remember my father for my dad was, being a farmer without the sun was something very unlucky. You know, it was very big, to to have to be a farmer, without the sun. But, Luckily, also some other farmers in the area in Piedmont, didn't have a boys, just the daughters, and, they are all working with them in the, in the winery. So I I'm very happy that, we are a little bit stronger stronger, women, in this job and with business. Yes. A female revolution. Yeah. The female revolution in people. Yeah. And that's true. That's fantastic. So we'll shift a little bit now, to more of your the sales piece, but what are your top three export markets at the moment? And are they different than they were five years ago? Oh, USA is always been our first market because, of course, is is a bigger country. And, my father started to export in nineteen seventy four. So it It's very long time ago. Second market is a Sweden. I would say, and the third is a Switzerland. Also, Switzerland was one of the first market my father opened. In, the end of the seventies. And we actually still have the same importer there. So I think that in the last five years, they these are the three markets that are always the the biggest. In the nineties, I remember that, one of the biggest market was Germany. And now, honestly, German, Germany is is our smallest market. At. So it's, it's strange, but this is how we it, it works. And then we we also exported it to be in Canada. It to be in Australia. A little bit in Singapore, a little bit in Hong Kong, in Belgium, all underfunding and the rest of the Scandinavia. So a little bit, everywhere. We can say. That's wonderful. I'm just working on getting more of it to California. I think it stops, you know, in the mid I think it stops in Colorado in the United States. It's hard to find here. So I will work on that as soon. So how much if at all do you rely on tourism to to your winery or to the area? And would you like to see an increase in direct to consumer business? We have a lot of tourism, right now. So we are very happy be, and sometimes, I I apologize, but I can't, receive all the required that I have. The problem is that, if I if I just receive visitors, I have no time to work in my dinners. So, I in some mostly in, in May, June, and also during the harvest there are some period during the year that, I would love to receive everybody that write me. But, I apologize if sometimes I answer that, I can't receive them. Because there are some periods you really need to be in the vineyards. It's it's very important to be in the vineyards. So I think we already have, enough, enough of trees and the quality of the tourism in our area is also very, very good. So we are very lucky. Very lucky. That's wonderful. So I would say in California, some of our greatest post pandemic challenges that we're facing in production, you know, in the industry is labor shortage and rising production costs and supply chain issues. And is that the same for you in Pimonte? And if not, what are your greatest post pandemic challenges? Yeah. The problem, post the pandemic, yes, is that the employment is is a big problem. So you don't find, any people that wants to work in the vineyards. Even the foreigners, we used to we used to have a lot of we still have a lot of foreigners, but the new generation are looking for a different job. And, we don't have, a new people who wants to work with the vineyards. And, of course, I for some reason, I can understand, but, I I noticed that even in the restaurant business, it's hard to find, so many years. It's hard to find the people who wants to to work in the restaurant. On business and, a little bit everywhere talking with other, people in different, subject, everybody complain about the employment. Yeah. So we don't have, employ enough employees. And, after pandemic, we we can say that, except from that, we we are almost we almost for for galta to have had the pandemic because everything starts to be like normal. And, so everything came back. Yeah. That's great. That's great. Yes, ma'am, yeah, what a what a theory of the of the, it looks something really unreal unreal to live. Yeah. Yeah. How did it affect, you know, b is I know Italy's lockdown was pretty strict. And how did that affect, you know, your vintage in twenty twenty, especially? Yeah. So living in the countryside for us was a big luck. Because we were allowed to go out and work in our vineyards. The nature don't never stop. So you can close everybody at home and stop everything, but the nature keep going on. And so we we always keep kept working our vineyards. And, and that we okay. If we didn't have a TV, if we didn't watch the news on TV, honestly, we even didn't notice because we keep we kept working the vineyards and going out in our vineyards. And this kept us very, well-being, in certain situation. Nothing, not nothing special for for us, actually. But, of course, and we also have a a lot of black to have our kids in the country in the countryside, a plane in the yard. The that it's it seems like a stupid things, but, at the time, it was really a lot, really a lot. Absolutely. I feel the same living here in the country of Sonoma County, and I've always I have had such empathy for people in really urban areas how difficult that must have been. Oh, yeah. That's living in apartment in the city was very hard. We we were very lucky. I always tell that. I always tell. Yeah. Yeah. So what are your, what are would you say are the three greatest vintages that you've been a part of? Okay. Alona, I love, the ninety nine. Maybe the ninety nine was, one of my favorite in the past. Then I would say o one And, I would say the third the nineteen. I love the nineteen, which is, just released the last year, but the nineteen. So I I generally prefer the cooler, beanstages. Which are not the easiest to understand when we release, of course, because they are, shy. They don't want to show it the best, when we release, classic style, freshness. But, of course, these vintages are the one that, you can, appreciate by keeping them in the cellar for, for a few years or many years, actually. So, I would say that ninety nine zero one and nineteen are my favorite. Good. I wrote that down because that's what I'm gonna go look forward now. So you mentioned you have kids. So what is is there a next generation for Chulietti? Yes. So now we are two sisters and, we have three boys. Coming, but they are still too young. So, we still have to work many years, me and my sister before they they will be introduced to one hundred percent in the in the in the winery. I I hope. I hope. Now, of course, when you are a kid, you want to help, you want to harvest, you want to bottle, you want to package, you want you want to be everywhere. And, and I hope they will keep, be interested in this business. What I I can tell is that my parents never forced me and my sister to continue with this business. And I'm very thankful for that because, maybe if they were forcing us, we choose the we turn to choose other business. They they left us a very, very, very free. To decide, and, we are both working together. So I learned from them that I have to repeat the same, think. I I would never, force them to continue with this business. I will let them be free. Yeah. Well, it's great because then you develop your own passion for it. And Exactly. Exactly. I totally agree. And how, how do you and your sister? I mean, so you do most of the you mentioned marketing export? Your or does a lot of the winemaking? Are there any other responsibilities that you have to divide or give any suggestions that you can offer people to work well with your family? Yes. It's mostly this, we share these, yes, these, things between us. We have a very good relationship. And, so because, so when we have to to do some restoration or a new building, I let her decide because she's better than me. And she let me decide in in in in, in the subject where, she believe I'm better than her. So there is a lot of respect. We know where we are better. And so we leave us decide where we in in the sorry. I, maybe I'm not explaining well, but No. I I completely understand what you're saying. Oh, okay. So in this way, And and then we both work in the vineyards. So most of our time is spent in the vineyards because, all the works are made by hand. We live in, in, hills, on the hills, And so we can't use, the machine to do the works in, and in the rows. And, we we really spend a lot of time and mostly starting from, end of April when we start with the green pruning until the end of the harvest. We will spend most of our time in, in the vineyards. And, I will do some bureaucracy in the evening and on Sundays. And, and then I will dedicate most of our time in the in the vineyards. And there is the place where we relax. Both of us, we relax from our kids and our work. It's a great a great escape. Yeah. It it's a great escape, but yeah. Okay. I can't let you go because I'm also Italian. I life is all about food too. So I can't let you go with talk without talking a little bit about food. So what are your, favorite regional dishes to pair with Nipiola and Barbera? Okay. So I would say that, I would, combine the the Barbera. With, some rich food. So some, salami. Our area is, is also famous for, for making salami. And, I would say that the barbera with the high acidity is is great with the salami, but also with a a good risotto. I would say a ragu risotto. So ragu, we can say, and I will combine a a Barbaresco or or Barolo, with the, of course, with the red meat. If you have a game or or also lamb, and, a piece of, age that cheese is great. Of course, if you have a truffle, even better. For example, in, in November, October, November, I would prefer to to combine with the truffle. We also combine with the fish sometimes. So, we also like to combine, which is not a, actually, a regional, specific dish, but the, the, for example, can be our original dish as it was, the only way to to preserve the the fish being undersold, from the past. So it has always been our, local Piamonte's edition as well. And so it's also so very good with bakala. And how do you prepare the bakala? Inomido? Or Inomido? See, I prepare, a lot. There is a two way that I like, or is it inomido with, parsley? Parsley, a little bit of onion, a piece of garlic, a lot of parsley, and, olive oil, and a little bit of tomato, but very little. And then you go with the the bakala. Otherwise, I like, to to to fry the the the and the separately make, another, potatoes, peppers, and, onions all fried together, and then you combine these two dishes together, and it's, it's great. And, this is also good with Barbea, I would say, as you deep fried, also the barbera can be a good combination with this dish. It sounds fantastic. You know, it's only ten o'clock in the morning here, but I could eat all of that right now. Yeah. Some recipes. I like cooking, and, I make my own bread. I have my own mother's yeast. So I, yeah, I like, I like a cooking. I have more time in the wintertime than in the summertime, but, yes, it is something good. Yeah. Have you had a good year in Piamonte for truffles? Unfortunately, not. It was very dry last summer, so we didn't have a good, a good year. In fact, I almost even didn't taste the last year, the truffles. So hopefully, we will have, a wet summer this year so we can, have summer truffles, for next autumn. Yes. Yeah. Because the mini tourists are coming for the truffle. It's a pity when you can't make them happy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've got some other delicious food to offer them. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. That's true. That's true. That's true. Is there anything else that you want to talk about that you feel you didn't get to? I think we talk about a little bit of everything. See. Well, it looks like actually we just had a question pop up in the chat. Someone is curious to know if you or your sister have ever tried making a white wine. Oh, wow. So we actually started to experiment, ten years ago with a with a white wine. And, it's a chardonnay, and we just released this year, the two thousand nineteen, is in Sarabuella. It's a very small production. We make six hundred bottles a year. So a very small production. And, yes, that's true. We wanted to to start to periment a little bit on the on the white. So we we tried to make, a burgundy style of a chardonnay, but the production is small and we are not going to to grow. We the idea is not to inflame to more chardonnay, but, we are very happy to to to to have decided to make it. Yeah. We really like. Well, hopefully, I'll get to try it. Soon. I love shortening because it's so expressive of where it comes from. So it's Exactly. Interesting to see what's going on where. Well, okay. Those were all my question So I'm gonna pass it back over to Joy, but truly, Claudia, I just wanna thank you so much for your time because you've really been a a north star for me since I met you all those years ago. So Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Happy, sir, everybody. As well to you guys. I I that was a lovely conversation. And I I yeah. Wow. You guys could keep going. I just I think that, if there were questions, I'm gonna have to forward them to you on your emails because we are out of time. Just before we go though, like, what is our next, clubhouse? Hi. So the next one is on Thursday on April thirteen. Charlotte Ho. She's going to be actually in Milan together with Sonia's Padaro Malone. So they're going to do a clubhouse together. So that's gonna be Thursday next week. Super. Okay. Well, Barbara. Cloudia, thank you so very, very, very much for taking the time to be on this show. And again, it'll be on the Italian wine podcast. I'll let you guys know when comes out and send you link. And I wish everybody a fantastic Easter weekend. And, yeah, that's that's that's it. You guys have a great night. Thank you. You too. Bye, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. 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