Ep. 1363 Andrea Eby Interviews Diletta Tonello | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

By now, you've all heard of Italian wine Unplugged two point o. The latest book published by Mamma jumbo shrimp. It's more than just another wine book. The fully updated second edition was inspired by students of the Vin Italy International Academy and painstakingly reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professor Atilio Shenza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. The benchmark producers feature is a particularly important aspect of this revised edition. The selection makes it easier for our readers to get their hands on a bottle of wine that truly represents a particular grape or region to pick up a copy, just head to Amazon dot com, or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. We've been doing this religiously, rigorously, thanks to Leica's hard work because it is not so easy to coordinate everybody's agenda. We've been doing this for a year and a half. Without missing a beat, meaning weeks. And we have come to eighty six in terms of number of episodes. And believe it or not, these are the one of the more popular, episodes because I guess our audience is quite Kiki because, you know, listening to an hour of this deep dive into, conversation about wine and wine making and wine people. I didn't think it would work at first, but I think, I'm very pleased with it. I hope you are too. And I suppose let's get on to this show today. And today are mod. Her name is Andrea Ebbie. We all know and love her. I just saw Andrea. Chow Andrea. How are you in Andrea? I'm well. Thank you. Where are you now? I'm in London right now. So, yeah, what is going on? You're between London and Canada? In London and Canada. I mean, mostly because right now, I'm doing a lot of studying for my master's degree in exam. So I'm here in London. In the next couple weeks judging at, international wine, challenge and at Decanter. So getting lots of tasting, experience So how are the how are the, what is the main difference between Decanta and international wine challenge? And and you judge also at five stars recently. What are the differences? Oh, I would say, like, international wine challenge, it's a very sort of, like, kind of casual atmosphere and the fact that they don't give you chairs. What? Yeah. Yeah. You have to it's like an it's an active judging nervous because you stand for the entire day. Holy shit. I didn't know that. Yeah. And how many, like, how many grueling hours do you have to stand? Yeah. You do, like, three hours in the morning and then have lunch and then another three or four hours in the afternoon. So, yeah. All standing? Yeah. I don't. Oh my god. I didn't know that. I need a TikTok of that. That's pretty funny. Alright. I'll try and take some, video for you. But, yeah, no, it's, it's great because you kind of work with each day, you're kind of put with a new sort of team of people. And so it's great for kind of, you know, keeping up with connections and meeting new people. You get lots of chance to chat with one another, and it's kind of very collaborative judging process. Right. And it's also like, you know, you can go from, like, You know, I remember last year had like a flight of eight Argentinian Malbecs followed by eight Swedish Saleras. Right? So it's like Oh my goodness. Swedish Saleras. I only I think I've tasted once, in Paris, like, a couple of months ago. Yeah. So it's really kinda neat that way because you never know where you're gonna end up. Well, you're not going to there's no, chance in how you'll get Salera for your MW. I mean, I'm pretty sure about that. Probably not. But, it does keep your mind open about the possibilities. Right. Could this be? And then, decanter, yeah, it's a little more sort of like, sort of regimented in the sense that you're assigned to particular areas. So generally, I spent quite a bit of time in Italy there. So this week, I've got, yeah, Valpolicella one day. And Yeah. Because it's a large, large, competition. Yeah. So you really have a lot of wines in each of these kind of categories. And so and then I also have, I think, on the Friday, one day, judging Canada, which is nice too. So, yeah, it's, there and there you're doing have you each each have your own computer and you're kind of doing your own notes for or you have a discussion. And, yeah, it's just a, you know, different systems, but I think they each have their, you know, their, their benefits. And none of them have the, an ologist perspective, like, five star does. So that's something Yeah. That's interesting perspective. It's definitely some color to the some conversations for sure. So yeah. And and how many wines are you tasting a day? And this is all like in intel that I need to bring home? Say, we're it's usually flights of, like, ten or so. I'm just trying to think back to to counter. And you're probably yeah. It's probably, like, ninety ninety wines a day. Yeah. So you're doing, yeah, you're doing some serious, heavy lifting then. Yeah. Yeah. My my teeth by Friday are definitely telling me that's enough. Yeah. You've had enough. Alright. Getting back to the show, that would I just I was just very curious. Of course, you know, for those of you who are unfamiliar, Andrea Ebbie is the Italian programs director at the wine scholar Guild. And initially, I was always making fun of her saying, oh, you are our you went to our competition. But in reality, we have tons of tons of via candidates coming through, the Wine Scholar Gail program. And I think it is a very good preparation, a stepping stone to, in Italy International Academy. What what is your thought on that? Yeah. No. I I definitely think, you know, talking to students that have gone through, the scholar program, they've, you know, said to me just how much of a, benefit it was to, to have that kind of foundation before they went into the via courses. So I think, they're quite complementary to one another. We kind of approach things from different angles, you know, in terms of, Italian wine, and I think, you know, it's always good to kind of learn in that sort of three sixty perspective. So any way that you can kind of, you know, get at the knowledge from a different angle, like it's always, a benefit. So, yeah, I, I like to think that, we're helping each other out married. Okay. So Andrea, when is your exam with the BMW? Is it in June or something? Yes. It's like the sixth to the ninth of June. Listen. So you're only going for the you've take you've passed the theory? I passed theory last year. Yeah. So you're only going for the practical. So Miracomando, Andrea. Okay. And when you're done with the damn MW, you have to come back and become an expert at least. Okay. Focus on something else. Yeah. Great. Alright. And Andrea, so listen, let's go, onto the show now. Today, you are interviewing. Well, so many reasons, but, you know, I think one of the foremost is that, you know, she's such an it's not only women in our profession, in our industry. He calls into, like, a younger generation in, in the industry because she has you know, gone, through the sort of educational system of winemaking and that sort of thing, and then had some great experiences in Italy and abroad and has gone back to her family's winery and her taken over the reins there and done some fabulous things, at the winery, but then also, you know, thought, hey, that's become the president of the consortio as well. And so, you know, she's really inspired operational in her kind of vision for, the LaVini area and, you know, the potential of, the Durala grape. And so, you know, from that professional perspective, I think she has a lot to offer. And I have to confess. We've been friends for about, ten or eleven years now, I guess, is we both, we both worked for the Talaney family for a short time, when she was doing a staj there. I can't Costco. So we've known each other for quite a while, and I've just come to really respect everything that, that she stands for. Oh, great. How old is she? How old are you? How old are you Dileta? Twenty two plus ten. Oh, okay. I was like twenty two. Shit. You're really little. You I could be your mother. Two or thirty two. Okay. Alright. Yeah. Happy birthday. I'm really excited to, listen on, to your conversation because Torello is a very, very different, difficult line to push. It's it's so, so high in acidity. I think it's the most acidic, Bolicine. That's for sure. So listen, getting back to Andrea for one nanosecond, what are the learning objectives we should expect from your call today with Delletta? Yeah. So I I hope that by the time we're we're done chatting that everybody maybe has a little bit to have a better understanding, of maybe the versatility of the Dorella grape and kind of the range of wine styles that it's capable of making. I would like people to maybe understand some of the challenges that, producers like Gillette to face when we're making traditional method lines from, sort of varieties outside of those classics like chardonnay and pinot niro know, not just in terms of, like, kind of, consumer, awareness for these different kinds of sparkling wines, but also, you know, is Dorello quite difficult to work with in the winery, that sort of thing. And then also to learn a little bit more about the Terwater of the Laissini area and just kind of understand that part of the country a little bit more. Okay. Great. By the way, side note. Slavvek Kominski writes on the chat hello. I'm the one of the example Vinital international academy through a scholar program with Andrea. So there you go. Testimonial live. Okay. Listen, Andrea, I going to leave you now, which, you know, ends shut up, which as you know, it never happens. So I'm skimming the mic over to you, and then I'll come back to see if there are any questions if we have any time. Okay? Sure. Okay. So I'm just gonna start by just introducing Deleta. A little tell you a little bit about her, and then we'll start chatting a little bit. So, Deleta graduated as an agricultural efforts at the Twin, Agricultural Institute in Longino. And then went on to university, which led her to become the doctor of Vitacultural and on electrical, sciences and technologies at the University of Padawa. And after a series of experiences in Italy and abroad, she officially joined, her family company, Vignetonello in two thousand fourteen. In two thousand twenty two, she took over the role of president to the consort Cio Trotella Vini LaSini Dorello, and her mission is to communicate to the world the importance of the region's binds and territory, as well as to promote all the efforts of LaSini Dorello's companies and sellers. So, lots of accomplishments, oh, sorry, meet pardon me, accomplishments already. And, as you heard, only turning to, thirty two tomorrow. So I'm really excited to see, what, you know, the future holds for the LaSini area under the leadership of, Deleta. So, welcome Deleta. Hi. Here's your So, is there anything else that you wanted to tell our listeners about yourself or kind of what you're Yep. First of all, thank you guys. Thank you, Andrea, for, you know, choosing me, and It's an honor also because we are a good friend, and, since Toraini experienced a lot of those things are changed. But, I think the value are the same, especially like that. I just want to say that I probably, I am a really, a volcanic woman as my as my wife. So, people call me a welcome woman because I have a lot of energy, and I want to use that energy for talk about this, this area, which is very important for me. Okay. Excellent. So what what made you decide to kind of follow in your parents footsteps and go the roots of becoming a a Viticultureist and winemaker. Oh, just, first of all, because it was that February. And, yeah, since I was a child, it always took me everywhere. And I think it was inevitable for me to follow in his footsteps, but with my style. Okay. So, you know, you know, when they ask you when you as a try, when you ask, what do you do? You know, what do you do in the future, what do you will be your jobs. And I always answer, I want to do all the jobs in the world. So so taking care of the family business has been an opportunity for me, cause to experiment, learn, express myself, and do the most complete job in the war, the white maker. So I think that is the reason why I, you know, follow my desk. Okay. And what what have been sort of some of the biggest sort of changes you've implemented in the family business since you started to kind of take things over? Like, well, what is changed? Yeah. What what have you changed, say, in the vineyards or in the winery that, is maybe a bit of a departure from what your, your father was doing? Mhmm. We actually starting to change a lot, actually, since the vineyards because, we start in our gang, Viticulture, and it takes a lot for my dad not because he don't trust in it. But he, he didn't expect that he can made it. He can do it, you know, in the right way. So I give to him, three, four years to try without the bureaucracy. You know what I mean? And after that, since, three years ago, something like that, we start the bureaucracy. So, we are actually now organic quanary since, in April. So, yeah, since this year. And I I I changed a lot of stuff also in seller because, I lastly, I did a few experience outside, the family business. So I learned how to organize the winery, how to organize the work, out to organized people and also to, to experiments. So I changed a lot of stuff in the winemaking, and I changed the labels and the marketing and stuff like that. So Yeah. I mixed this boundary. I think a little bit much more con complete, but it's not just by me, probably I'm a I'm a lucky person. I know a lot of person, so a lot of people start. And, a lot of friend of mine helped me to do this changing, you know, during this year. So I think, this is also, like, thankful to my to my friends, to winemaker, my winemaker friends. Okay. And why why would you like or what would you like people that are listening to Tae to kind of learn about Dorella as a great variety? Why do you believe so much in Dorella? Oh, that's a good question. Because it's a new unique variety. It's actually a indigenous variety. So and a variety that they, was always grow in this area. We are between Vechenza and Verona provinces. So it's mostly a eel area. These areas come from a volcanic eruption fifteen years ago. So it's a aged volcanic soil. Very interesting actually. But this variety is really unique. Because it's a variety that is looking to the future. These are the activity that is the the characteristic of this variety makes wine that are good in the years. And, with the this climate change, the the graves are much more mature, but the acid is still very high. And, one thing that I always said that this variety in the years is getting younger and not older, you know, the wide is you feel the wine much more younger than you know, in the years of aging than older, you know, if you expect it older. So I think it's really particular variety. Amazing for making spasming wines, So, is our, Italian variety for made a good Champin' Us Mehta, for example? What is the kind of, like, typical say, like, pH or safety levels when you harvest it. In a normal year, like twenty twenty one, like you got good temperature and good rain, we had one of the best for my opinion, of course, vintages ever for Sparkling wines. And we have ten or twelve, eighteen. That's and the pH is always around two point ninety. Two point eighty five. Okay. Sometimes three point zero two, but never, never much more. So usually, you don't have the monolactic downgrade. Right. You know, if the producer have the style that prefer to do a partial malateic or the complete malateic of a of the base wine is a style of the winemaker. But usually, we don't have malateic done in our base wine. Last year with the that crazy, crazy, crazy vintage that we have. We have no rain, no rain during the, winter and the autumn. So We have that problem because it's normal, then during the summer, you don't have too much rain. Very hot, hot, hot summer. So we had, a city around eight and nine. The PX was good as well, a little bit high, but not too much in some some places that are, east exposition, you know, of the hill. We got much more, activity, but not too much. Not not not more than ten. So what was weird. And another weird thing is that we pick it up the base wine at the start of September. We usually pick up the grape from the the middle of September to the middle of October for the base wine for the sparkling wine. So that is a yeah. Change. Yeah. And what is, what is the weather looked like for you this year in terms of the winter? It's been quite dry again, hasn't it? Oh, yeah. It's crazy because you you can't understand the vintage. Before you pick up the grapes, you know, you start the year. Oh, this year will be a bad year. And after that, and you pick up the grapes, you go, wow. Very nice. Blah blah blah. So, it's weird. We had a very great, ocean and and winter, which is crazy, and we are was really, really, scary about it. We had the the guard leak with a level that's I don't know when was the last time that we saw, level. So, you know, the level of the of the of the of the lake or or the level of the sea in in Venice was crazy. Like, no water at all. So it was crazy really. But, we have a very weird spring. It start very, very hot, very warm, mostly. But now it's a little bit much more cool and, wet because, We have rain. We will have rain tomorrow also in a few weeks of rain. So hopefully, we we we will have a little bit of a rain back, and I hope so, actually. Good. Good. What, what are some of the challenges of growing Durala? Is it different than other grape varieties in terms of, like, bitter cultural or the things you need to do differently with Durala? Or Yeah. Yeah. It's a very generous variety. Okay. Very vigorous. The seventy I can say, point three eighty, seventy eighty percent of the vehicle. So in the way to grow up the guys is, as a which is the, they didn't need to grow the vineyards very hard, far from the soil, from far from the humidity, of course. But also because these varieties really generous as I said. So it makes a lot of leaps. It makes a lot of production. So, with this kind of, with the with the with the paragola, it's very good for the expression of the variety. But you have to be careful because you don't have to produce too much. And and and also you don't have to make a liter production. So it's very important to balance the plant that is a very strong variety. Dorella names is come from Dura Acena, which means, grapes with a hard skin. Oh, you're cutting out a little bit, Delessa. Are you there? Yes. Sorry. Can you hear me? Yes. I can hear you. Okay. Sorry. Probably the connection is a little bit weird. Okay. Sorry. You so you were saying it means, like, hearts break with a hard skin? Yeah. The name of Dorella comes from Duralasuna. Which means, grapes with hard skin, achino kombucha Dura. And also for, you know, for the hard wine, hard acid, you know, very high acidity wine that it's come from this grape. So domains talk a lot about this, variety. The the the plant is very strong also, between the diseases. So, is that is actually mostly easy to growing up. But you have to be careful about the humidity because the grapes is very compact. You have to be careful to don't do not burn the grapes as a, you know, grape for base wine for sparkling wines. So, yeah, you you you have you we mostly have to do the work, of making grapes for baseline. So, like, the chardonnay or the pinos for the, for the sparkling wines mostly. Okay. And do you, do you grow the Dorella that you use for your stow wines? Is it coming from the pergola as well? And you're picking it a little bit later, or how do you make that distinction? Oh, yeah. They are come the grapes are come from Apargo as well, but it's a different because very that's, yeah, is a little bit older than the others and makes less quantity of grapes. Also because the, clone of the Dorella that I used for the steel, so for the white wine, is actually, is actually a clone that makes a small grapes, don't made too much production also because we're pruning very short. Okay. And, yeah, we we do different stuff for that vignettes to, to the, the vigna that we use for starter wines. Okay. I'm sure there'll be questions about that later because, yeah, most of our listeners love to hear about clones and that sort of thing. So if any of you have questions about that, just jot those down and we can try to get some of those questions later. Yeah. So Why have you decided and I'm I'm just looking at this from kind of an outside perspective. I did, start importing Gillette's wines into Manitoba who probably about how long ago Gillette's seven years ago or so. Oh, please. So if you like that. Yeah. And, you know, I I recognized that, you know, there was a really great quality in the, in the sparkling wines that you were making, but there was also really great quality in the still wines that you're making from, Dorella and from Garganaga. Yep. So what is the kind of split to the winery in terms of the still wines and the sparkling wines? You mean? Sorry. I lost the question. Sorry. What is the percentage? Like, how much of your production is going into sparkling wines? How much is going into still wines? We actually are now making in mostly the seventy percent of the production as a sparkling wine. Champin was method mostly. Or I I can say sparkling wine with the second fermentation in the bottle. So we have a little part that we make called Fongo or Antistraro or pendant Right. Small parts. A big part of Champpin was metered, and the thirty percent of the production is white wines. Okay. A tiny, tiny production of red wines within international rights that but we sell it here close to the winery to directly to the consumers. But, yeah. Okay. And why do you think that sorry. There's an ambulance going by here. Why do you think that, Dorella is so well suited to those traditional method winds? Oh, just the acidity and the and its ability to kind of well, I see I always say that. If you don't do the traditional metal with this variety, is like you own a Ferrari and you drive it slowly, you know. You gotta you gotta have an entire indigenous variety that is federal to make excellent traditional matter for the acidity PH level, late harvest. And one of the important things for us, and I say not only for me and my wiring, but the all the producer is that we actually pick up the grapes close to the maturation. Okay? Okay. It goes to the complete maturation. Sorry. So we get a CDT, but also the maturation. So, ma'am, most of the mature grades, which means having, sparkling wine, much more mature with with good bodies. And and, actually, at the end, are much more interested because you you feel something more, I think. Okay. And what, can you tell the listeners just a little bit about, like, the different, traditional method winds that you make, because you you do have several kind of different winds in your portfolio that are eight. Yep. Yeah. About the traditional model, I made three kuwigs. The third one is, going out last year, but, the the first two we always made it. My my dad started in two thousand to make the Champpinos method. But in the past, he used to make only the the three a wine that stay three year with the lease. No more. E, the gorging all the bottles. It never ever keep apart the same bottles, you know. It was crazy about it because that's how we can, you know, learn if you don't taste something old. But, you know, it was different. Different ways to think about it. And when I arrived in two thousand fourteen, we start to make the result wine as a five year with the lease. So we mostly have a wine that the younger one is minimum three year with the lease. And it's thirty. And the oldest one is Ara, which is sixteen months. So five years with the lease. And the middle one, but, the new one is the ulysses. Which is a obvious release. But the difference between these three sparkling one is the cuvette because I am act I'm actually lucky because I have the vineyards located in different places. Different disposition, different meter of the level from the meter from, you know, from this level. I got different, influence of the soil. And so I can do different blends. So Tetti, which is the youngest one, is a blend of divinias that we have in in the valley, so down in the valley, and the vineyard that we have in the hills. Our is only free, free run free run, juice. Yeah. So, comes from the the the heels part. So free different dispositions, so three different venues, but only from the heels. And the Ulysses, it's come from just a vineyards that is up in the hills. The hills are where I grow in my vineyards are around the two hundred, three hundred, not too high. Okay. Does the Ulysses have, see a little time on Oak? Yep. Yep. The difference between the other two is, that Eviso has come from, experiments. That's why it takes that name because for me, Eviso, it's it's means, it's my analogical trick. Where, I changed my mind, so many times. I did the this experiment in two thousand seventeen, and I used the oak. The French oak is, old barrick, then I used so many times. And that year, I used it for ferment and age the base wine. So the the blend is like that. The twenty percent of the, base wine, the the fermentation, the aging in the in this, Barrick, used at Barrick, And the eighty percent is just stainless steel tank, and I blend it, and I do the second fermentation. The wine did four years with the lease. And I, degrogyed it and fill it with the same wine. So it's a so zero duhage. Okay. The wine was crazy because, like, I didn't expect that. Really, the fruit, give up the variety, and an unexpected elegance. Is a no is Durali is not a, aromatic variety. So it's very, you have to be careful to use the food because if you eat too much food or oak, sorry, you have too much the oak smell Right. And also in demand, so you got not, you know, it's not, it's not elegant. But, with this percentage, was amazing. And, and, and it gives, the, the, ah, the, ah, the, ah, the, ah, the, ah, the, ah, the, ah, the, ah, the, ah, the, ah, ah, the, ah, ah, the, ah, ah, the, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, the ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, which is like you didn't expect. So Yeah. Okay. I would make it again. Oh, and we must say we must mention Ulysses because he is your, associate's small cat. Oh, ulysses is her cat too. Yeah. Yeah. On, Instagram, you will always see pictures of you as easy as never far from her side. So It's much more famous than me. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Everybody knows him. Yeah. And speaking of your labels and Ulysses label, so can you tell us a little bit about why you decided to rebrand and maybe a little bit about your labels? Because I do think they're they're beautiful labels, and they really do tell a story. And I know we can't see the labels right now, but I think even if you just share a little bit about your kind of thinking behind them, it would be interesting for people. Yeah. Yeah. But on the only website, you can see the label so far, because we are talking now about it, and I want to see that that to show, you know, to people if they want to, on the vinitironello dot com website, you can see all the picture of the labels as to understand why I did and and I used that names. But, of course, of all, when I take care of the family business in thousand fourteen, my dad produced so many different kinds of wines, mostly comes from the local varieties. But there was a confusion. You know? People don't know what actually Tonelo was famous for. You know, well, tornado one, what do you do? Like, you know, what do you make it was a really bit of a confusion about it. So the first three or four years, I am I don't know how for you to find new partners, new customers and stuff like that. So it was just me that did that trip. My dad is looking for Divenia, so he don't care about, travel and, and do this fair or speed tasting, wine tasting, stuff like that. So in two thousand eighteen of, actually, seventeen. I just had from two thousand seventeen. I decide to, give my style because at the end, we see that the wannary, take my face, you know, I became the brand ambassador, something like that, and my dad, love to leave me everything. That's what I always say. Okay. Do whatever. Okay. Do whatever. And, we start to, think about what we want to represent. And I I'm a little bit boring. I was worried about the traditional, labels. I love art a lot, and I always remember something. Like, not only the label, but if I like the, I don't know. The the I remember, you know, I remember the imagine is in my mind, it's full of imagine. If I can say that. So, I love labels that are weird. And, and people probably don't like it, but they remember it because they're weird. And if they like the wine in it, they remember it. So that was a thought. So at the end, I we want to we we have, four, main wines that are that was the they was the our main production. So there was our, two sparkly wines and two white wines come from the Durala and the and the Gargana two already made from local varieties. So we decide to trust an hundred percent, of our marketing phase. You know what I mean? To be local varieties. So We we made this four. We start with these four, lines, four as the four elements of the nature. So Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. Water, wind, soil, and sun, and, when we, thought about all. What name we, we will do, we will give up this one because, you know, people remember much or more than wise, we when they have, the names. And I and I do our search. I researched it in Greek mythology. The that is a or another one of my patients. And we find this name from, the name of the names of type the need of the water out of the wind. Chloe was the need of the storm, and he was was the need of the sun. And Chris, because I love the name. I've clearly and I am a woman and I am a woman. Because I I might I was still hungry about two daughters that was the white meat. So I want just this rebate because people want to know Yep. Sorry. It's just kind of cutting out a little bit there again. So I'll just give it a second to kind of maybe settle down. You had to stop me because when it started, you know, to Yeah. No. It's just, maybe it's a little windy or something, and the reception was just a little broken up there. So, well, hopefully, it improved. No. I think it's okay. We understood that you you named them after the nymphs and the the four different names. And, I, yeah, encourage everybody to to check them out on the website because they I think they also incorporate a lot of your personality into the actual art that is is used on them as well. Maybe we can talk, for a few minutes, before we get to questions. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about how you kind of came to become the president of the consow up steel and what your experience has been, in that position? Oh, it was it was weird because it was the first time for our consortium, but a lot of consortium had this I can say problem for, as a one of one of the smallest winery in the denomination to, you know, represent the consortium. And it's crazy how much, collects. So wineries will have this year. And, I think this shows how much this denomination is made from people who believe in, this variety and in this area. And the we are different producers are a valued group. So it doesn't matter. I'll be or, for our cooperative is a winery. But, because we are really unique, we we speak the same, language about our varieties, and, we actually love it so much because probably we are all bucanic people. So we we know that if we're together, we can do we can we can do better. So it was weird. I I do have a lot of energy, but I'm not I'm not a politician person. So at the start, they say, okay, guys. I can do it, but I'm young. And I don't know everything about politics stuff. So you have you you have to teach me and I will learn. So what I say, okay, I'm a young. I have the energy of a young person, but, I don't have the experience. So I took the experience from all the old guys that we have in our group or, all the, you know, of my mentors and stuff like that. So I'm I'm starting to learn about it a little bit, and I hope it's it's worked for the denomination because to show that there is, a young ideas about that wines and the way that we communicate this variety, this wine. I think it will be good for being much more famous and also much more no if if I can say that. Right. What are the what are the challenges? What what do you find are the challenges for that are low, wines in the market? Oh, for my opinion, the biggest challenges is that, growing the production numbers. To have the possibility to of being able to reach many markets, you know. But I I'm not talking about a lot, but, you know, a few million more because now we're made, actually, a million bottle of the of sparkling wine as a denomination. And I think a few million more will be much more helpful for be much more nose. But, for me, even more important is that's being recognized, as a sparkling wines, Italian sparkling wines, you know, when you think about the spa Italian sparkling wines, the one that's the wine lovers think about our denomination. That's it's my challenge. Okay. And and what's what are people's sort of reaction to, the sparkling wine when they try it for the first time? Like, when you're traveling in your role as winemaker or as president, and you introduce people to those barking ones for the first time, what comments do people have? They actually say Oh my god. It's still young or it tastes different because you when you think about mostly traditional method or champagne was method, you think about tasting wines comes from mostly chardonnay or pinot noir. And, and when you taste Dorella, it's a different taste because it's a different variety. So it's it's not supposed to taste like the chardonnay and the pinot noir. It's a different taste. Very intricate for my opinion and very interesting, and I think people feel this difference. And they love, how the wine is, it tastes young in the years of aging. When it when it does age, like, what kind of flavors does it develop? Does it get any of those kind of, like, smoky, flinty kind of riesling like notes, or how does it develop as a in terms of aromas and flavors. Aromas? Oh, yeah. It's yeah. It's looking it's really close to the riesling smell because during the aging, I think the, soil aromas, if I can say that's come out. Okay. Because the when you work in a volcanic soil, you have wine that are not ready the first two years okay, after the vintage. You must wait. But, it's a soil that's it's a very good for longevity. And in the years also for the white wines, Also, for white variety, it's very good for have the eyedroch or buoy smell of the brychanic soil for my opinion. And, for the duality, I can say that it's much more balanced the acidity, it be it it's becoming a cream in the mouth. So for the aromas, I can say that go goes out to the volcanic soil aromas. For the mouse, I can say that the acidity of the variety it's much more creamy, and, I can say comfortable because at the start, it's really hard and really hard to drink also. Okay. It's really strong. So, I know probably Stevy will come on in a few minutes just wondering if there's any questions, but I did want to ask you, you know, what's kind of next for for you in terms of the the consortium and also in terms of you at Tonelo. Is there, you know, what's new and exciting for both of those those things? Oh, yeah. I think the, the targets is the same. Like, I want to compare the world. I want to build good collaboration with importers crazy like me that who believe if me and the in my wines. And it's the same for the consortium because I want to find the ambassadors around Italy and around the world. The trust in this variety, the trust in this producer, and the that start to talking about it because they are, they feel the the difference. They feel the soul of this variety and this in this kind of, of a area, one area. So I think is, my rule at the end is to communicate this variety. This to communicate is this, this denomination. So I want to, let people know much more, and we start. Actually, we w set a few weeks ago, but because we did in Soave, a few lessons about LaSandrollo, during the w set, lessons. If I can say that. Yeah. Okay. So starting like that, you know, with the incoming and, and with, a war trip, with our wines and taking our volcanic rocks with us, and, you know, let the the people smell it and smell the hydrocaric smell of the rocks and feel it and smell it also in the wines, I think, is very important. Well, you definitely, in the audience, you have some great wine educators. I can see from, you know, many places around the world. So I encourage any of them to reach out to you. And, you know, if they are interested in, you know, giving their students some more information about Lucini and about Cerraro, I know that you're definitely there as a resource for them. So, we'll make sure that we help them out if they're trying to get in touch with you for sure. Okay. I am an hundred percent available for questions and materials and stuff like that. We got Okay. Well, I'm going to I'm gonna stop talking now, which is hard for me to but, thank you so much for for chatting with me. I'm gonna turn things back over to Stevie so she can moderate some questions. Really? I'm happy that you, you know, come, like, if you ask me any questions and, you know, I'm happy that we are friends, actually. No. Me too. Me too. I see. So there is a question for Jamie here. Yes. Jamie from Paris. Love Jamie. He's got a great question. He says does climate change look like it's an advantage for your Appalachian. So You know, we don't, we don't like to talk about climate change being an advantage, I think, but, you know, there are certain areas that probably will find it much easier to kind of cope with those changes. So Yeah. Do you want to respond to to Jamie's question there? Yeah. Actually, it's a great question, and thank you, Jamie, because, yeah, this climate change is actually advantage our variety, because like, our, you know, my grandfather remember, an acidity higher and higher than now. Like, mostly around fifteen, fourteen, and not mature grapes because in the past, they have a very different, different, summers. And because it's a late variety, He was he wasn't, mature a lot. So it was very unmetuh variety and very acid and and drinkable, really. But, in this years, the climate change is helping us to having, as I said, much more mature grades close to the, good, a good maturation. And but, for this characteristic of the variety, and we still have a good acidity. You know, I I prefer to have in ten and twelve, like, two thousand twenty one. You know, I I I hate last year, really much. But, yeah. We we we can sleep well with the climate change. Okay. Good. Alright. Stevie did you have Yeah. You know, I always have questions. So, yeah. So, Deleta, I want to ask you some questions regarding your role, at the consortium. Okay. So first of all, can you tell us, let our audience understand the size, and the volume of the consortium as a general? So how many producers do you represent? And how many bottles do you produce? And how many producers do both methodo classico, or just Sherman? Like, can you give us just a very brief overview. Of course. Of course. As I said, we are between the returns of Verona Provis, and we are in four valet, valle, which is in Verona province and three valet in Avichem. In total, we got four hundred hectares of Duella. Mhmm. That can be doc, but, actually, the denomination. So under the doc, the producer made a million, mostly a little bit more than a million, but not too much, a million bottle of sparkling wine. And the seventy percent for now in the last years. This this third date, the, you know, that was about last years. Seventy percent of the production is a Charmat's method. That thirty percent of the production is traditional methods, or Champpin House methods, but are we so that in the last four four years, the, in the production of the traditional myself is increase very fast, faster than the the ten years ago. So I think the, winemaker are investing a lot with the Champpinos method because it costs a lot because you have to keep a lot of bottle for many years. And, and the denomination is mostly characterised by, Vineerons or wine makers that they have not too much money to invest in the Champpe Basemento. That's why it takes a lot for my opinion. And what are what are you personally producing mostly? Are you producing mostly, traditional method? Yeah. I I'm I actually produce, thirty thousand bottles per year as a small wine area. So, yeah, it's not too much. So how do you reconcile the the challenges. Because on the one hand, you're how many producers are there? We have thirty five. Yeah. Thirty five producers, making producing fairly small amount of wines. And where are they distributed mostly? Mostly locally, right, in the territory? Like Yeah. They started a little bit, much more in Italy. Mhmm. A few wineries, distributed by a very good team a big distributor in Italy. And, a few of that are experts. The Resideo sparkling wine also, because the there are a lot of producers. I also meet soave or Valpolicella. So they have customers that are already works good with the much more famous brand, much more famous denominations. Mhmm. They also buy some some some starting from Lucindailo. But, I think for increase the number. We we need, like, that's, not only the producer of this area trust in this variety, but also the producer of verona and each the trust in this area. And, you know, the famous denomination probably can help us to work together. I cannot give you an example. In the last two years, we collaborate a lot with the Vipodicello Consartu, during the Oferaprima Avenue presented the Armarone. During the, dinner gala, we offer our sparkling wines on aperitivo for starting, you know, the night. And this collaboration is very helpful. Because they invite a lot of, white speakers, white importers, journalists, and, and people like that. So, for us, it's very important to be close to the Balpolicella folks, or to show up as well. So I think this will be helpful for, it creates the number. But it takes time. Yeah. So it's kind of, you know, a twenty, It it's kind of a catch twenty two, right? Because on the one hand, you have small number of bottles. You want to go more international, if you will. But because you have such small number of bottles, it's you can't really create the demand Yeah. And create the market. Right? Yeah. That's why I want the the production is increased. As a two or three million more. Mhmm. Time, if you think about this, the traditional nature, of course, the the Sharma is much more easy, but not too much because all the producers that made the Charmat, they do minimum three, six, or twelve months. Of the second fermentation in the in the in the tent. So it's not too, you know, easy also for a sharmat because it takes a little bit of time also for the sharmat, not only for the sharmatose metal. But I think, that's why you say that it's a variety the future. Like, because I think in the future, a lot of, small or particular importers are starting to looking for the Dorella and, starting to, sell it in a good restaurant good level restaurants, not only in Italy, but also in the, much much much more famous cities for ITC. So when, let's say not an Italian wine expert necessarily, but if a wine lover. Italian wine lover asks you. They ask you. What is the difference between Torello? Yeah. Francacorta. Trento dog and prosecco. How would you where does Dorello belong? Is it more to prosecco or is it more to Francacorta? Or is it the cousin of Trento dog? Like, how would you position Dorello? Amongst the sparkling wines of Northern Italy. No houses. I think this variety is really, unique probably is close to the Trento, but just because trying to have the freshness of the mountains. Mhmm. There are in an area that is under the dolomites mountain. So, we have the freshness in our area. But we do have a lot of, good characteristics for for being really unique, because the glare is, I I can say completely different variety, just the color of the grapes are probably the same. For French Corta is completely different area. We have, mostly eels, or valley that are really, full of water, good wind, that's coming through and, and, and for the volcanic soil, is a really particular And so we do have, freshness and, and longevity. So these are our these are our our characteristics. Okay. I think we do have one more question. Yeah. They began with us usually age their sparkling wines a long time on the on the leaves. But I think Delessa finally answered that that most of the production is still Charmat. But it's slowly growing in terms of the people that are aging Yes. The bottle. Yeah. People are starting to aging the bottles, as a traditional method. And usually, and I can say the ninety percent of the wineries that made it the traditional methods, I have the youngest one that is three years with the list. But a few wineries are made in two years with the lease of San Feleta, twenty four months because they are not using the, melesium. So they blend with the, older vintages, and, you know, as a champagne's time. He can if I can say that. And, so the the the the wine results much more mature after two years. But, yeah, are, three or two years minimum, no less than two years, as a traditional method. For this young man, it's very interesting because a lot of producers do six or twelve months of the second fermentation in the tank, which is really interesting and is not Oh, that's unusual. Really unusual. Yeah. Listen, Gillette. One last question before we go, then we'll close-up the room. What about the price points? How do the prices compare to prosecco and Francacorta in Printo doc? For example. Do you ask me about the wine shop you need? Yeah. Wine shops. Yeah. Wine shops in Italy. Okay. As a Charmas, you find it around eight to twelve euros. Mhmm. From the classic meta, so traditional meta, sorry. Because we mostly start from three years with the lease. Three years with the lease are mostly around twenty twenty four years, euros. But, the sixty months are mostly around, twenty seven, thirty, thirty five. And much more year with the lease are around forty, fifty euros, as a wine. For the white wines, which are very less production, are around twelve or fifteen euros. So, I mean, one one one more one more. I promise this is my last one. So why would a wine lover choose Dorello over Francacorta Otrinto doc? What is the reason that you would give them? Because the price points are very similar. I think. Yeah. Yeah. But, I think you, you are never be bored about the wines. If you drink it, it's really salty at the end, and you never be bored about it, and have this power to clean your mounds at the end. So you can eat a lot of stuff and have a three months. So you are never gabor about the wine. And if you actually forgotten your, in your cellar because I don't know, you got so many bottles, it's not a problem because it's good after the digagements as well. So I think that's why it's very interesting and, is a good wine for, you know, for do a, a wine trip with a with a sparkling with their bubbles. I can say that I I always say that there is, not not only a good pairing with this wine. But if you do a dinner with the full of barolo, after that, drink a glass of a Laissimirollo sparkling wine, and you will have a three month for go to sleep. Okay. That sounds good. Alright. On that note, we're going to close. I'm going to thank you very much both Andrea Ebi and Gilletta Tonello. Leica, can you please come back up and tell us what's up next? So the next is going to be this Thursday. So we have Fannie. She Fannie. Fannie. Fannie. That's French lady. We know her very well. Yeah. Yes. So she will be back, and then she was She's going to interview Elena Panda Leoni of Laptop winery. Oh, excellent. Looking forward to that. Very good. Mhmm. Okay. Alright, people. That's it. I'm signing off. You can all go home and enjoy your evening. Here we go. Swirl sniff, sip sniff. While you drink, don't forget these testing tips. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. 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