Ep. 1408 Slawek Kominski Interviews Marco Biscardo | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through an Italianeline podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Welcome everybody to Clubhouse Ambassador Corner. It is Friday here in Verona. And, I am stunning him for Stevie Kim as she is on her travels yet again, probably doing another on the road edition, but I cannot keep track of her schedule because she is constantly traveling. So I have no idea where she is, but she's off doing something on the road edition related. So, yeah, tonight, we have, Slawick Kominski, our Italian wine superstar Italian wine podcast superstar. And, you are going to be interviewing Marco Biscardo. So let me just quickly introduce you, I should probably start off by saying that, Clubhouse is very popular. We always replay these on the Italian wine podcast, and, That's what I'm gonna do. So let's let's start off by, giving Slawek a a welcome. He's the founder and, owner of, of Mindwyne in Poland. Slawamir is a wine lover, especially one of, Italian wine, and he has a strong determination to turn the combination of his passion for wine and business into success. He's a communicator, and an excellent interpersonal skills and enter enter I can't even say that word entrepreneur. He has a he's an interpreter. Anyway, so, basically, yeah, he loves all things to do with wine, especially Italian wine. For the last fifteen years, he's been the founder of the Mine wine, which operates in poll in in the Polish wine retail market, and he's an owner of four specialist wine stores, and two of them have wine bars and tasting rooms, where he he and his team organize lots of wine courses, master classes and tastings, with the producers. And he he's also an Italian wine ambassador a Val Pollicello wine specialist, an official ambassador of Laña Vini. He's the second, this is his second Ambassador's corner. So welcome, Slawick. How you doing? Hello, Joy. Hello, everybody. Thank you so much, Joy, for this, amazing introduction. I'm very proud to be a second time on the, Ambassador's corner. Last time, my guess was the Mikale Chenza, the owner of the, of the Estates, Guadalmello from Bulgaria. Now, I have invited Marco. It was also my supplier and we are sitting together in the wine table at this moment because, Marco is in Posenan in in my city, and we will have a tasting with my, customers this evening and tomorrow evening. So now we've got a great opportunity to sitting on the same table at the same time, not to be online. So it's, I think it will be better for our our discussion and our conversation. Yeah. I think that is nice, actually, because even though it's great that we have you know, all these, these tech things where people can be sitting opposite sides of the planet. It it's always sounds better when you guys are in person. So I'm Yeah. It's exactly. Yeah. I'm all for it. Alright. Well, before I let you guys have your, your interview, I should, I should ask. So how did you how did you discover, Marco Piscardo's wines? Okay. We know each other with Marco, for many years. And, we have cooperated together with, his fossil Corinna wines from Mabruzzo since, two thousand sixteen. But Marco, it's not only the owner of, this winery, but, he's also the boss of an obese company, which is a distributor and, represents wineries, from all over Italy. Not only in Europe, but also in, many other different markets like, the US and Japan. So I think that the possibility to to discover these, two perspectives, wine producer on the one hand and distributor on the other, can give our listeners a great mix of knowledge and vision of the Italian wine, wine market. Okay. Well, let me see here. Is do you have a I know this is not something that you were expecting me to ask, but do you have a a specific wine of his that you particularly like? Oh, of course, of course, you know, I I like all of, all of them because, Marcus wines are really, really great. And we will have ability to taste eighth of these wines this, this evening. But, I I really love the these two wines. One is the pecorino. It's a white wine. We will talk a little bit about it. And the second one, it's the, also, it's a multiple channel, Davruzzo, Corino Terramana, the OCG. It's a very particular project of Marco in in a BRruzzo area with some special winemaking techniques, and we will talk about it. I hope later this evening. Okay. So that's that's fantastic. I'm gonna stop talking now, and I'm gonna hand over the floor. So, Marco, are are you there? Yes. I'm here. Hi, John. Hi. Hi. Okay. So I'm gonna mute myself. I'll come back at the end if there's any questions and, I guess, have a good conversation. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So, Marco, welcome to Italian wine podcast and ambassadors corner. It's a fantastic. I'm, I'm really, really proud that we can, we can discuss together, on, on this, on this show, about Italian wines. And it's a great pleasure to have you here. Thank you very much. It's Lavek. And thank you very much, Joe, for the invitation, and, hi to everybody that listened to now. Okay. So, guys, at the beginning, let me, describe the Marco, Marco Piscardo and, a little, about him. So, Marco and his sister Sabrina are the fourth generations in the wine business. In nineteen thirty, the grandfather founded the Discardo winery in the, Bardorino area close to Verona, of course, in Venezuela region. And, at twenty, they father a good stop began to sell a typical wines of the verona area, like, Marona, Valpolice, and so have it. And at the beginning, in the first, first of all, of in Italy, and then in Germany, and you need to know that at the say at that time, the German market became more and more important. So he spent more time abroad. And in Germany, at the same time, three other wines, not only from, from Venital, had a success. It was a county, Lambrusco, and Montepochano. So they discard the winery decided to, to buy the Montepochiano wine as a bulk wine, bottle and sold them, in Germany, but also in, in other countries. And when, the grandfather, the founder of the winery passed away, the Marcos father decided to leave the discarded winery to his brother and cousin and built his own distribution company, for Germany. And Marco and his sister Sabrina after they graduated, began to work with a father on the distribution of wines from, fourteen Italian wineries from different regions from north to south, of, of Italy. And, in two thousand two, Marco Sabrina and the father made a big investment in both the fossil corner and state in, in the BRutso. Three years later, they father a Busto passed away without seeing the first, harvest. But, Marco and Sabrina decided to continue, division and mission, which is the production of a particular high quality multiple channel. Wines. So, Marco, I need to ask as a first question, the reason why you are, Venetiano, and you, decided to invests you and your family, decided to to invest, a money, but not only money, but also, your commitment and heart in a brute soul. A region quite far from the place where you are live. Why you decided to invest your, you know, your money and your heart in a groups origin? Maeslovic, as you told my sister and, I comes from a very own a verona is a very interesting and, famous, town for the production of of Arpulchella Marona, Bardolino, as you say. So I have as well, Lucana. But, the the funny history is, as my father was a a young sales man and begins to work with his father in her their own winery. He went to, Abritzo as region, Italian region, to sell their wines there, to sell their Valpolicella, their Ramarones, who have a specialty to this region, to their retailer. And, The second contact with this, special and a fantastic region was, when he began to sell in Europe, especially in a in a Germany, but, in Switzerland, and, in Belgium, and, the importers, at that time were Italian importers, and they asked him, not only for the wines by Policella so other that they produced, but they asked them, to my father, multiple channel. And so the family at that time, my grandfather and my father decided to to went to to a a region to buy multiple channel as a by coin. This was the second contact with the this region, one to sell the wines through the region of Brutzo, but, at the same time, to buy from a bruso, the bulk, multiple channel, and to bottle it in their own, winery. But, my father fell in love for this region. For, some, particularly, tape place for the landscape for the year, for the terroir, and the quality of the grapes. He saw a very interesting, grape and an interesting, great wine. And so, after this, he went away from his winer and found it that his own export distribution company, in the two thousand and one, two thousand and two, they decided that my father, my my mother, my sister, and I, to make an important investment in a re in, this region, Abruzzo, to, buy an, hill And this hill is, in a particular place, area, north in Abruzzo. That is called Colina Theramane. That means the hill about, Teramo City. And this area is located between the thermostaty and the, Adriatic sea coast. And this is a fantastic landscape, a fantastic era for producing of great, great red wines. So this is, was the our, the back the beginning of, our, investment there. Okay. That's great. Marco, What do you think, which elements, you make a brutus hand out the most, or more nearly do you see, Golina, Taramane, is unique location as you can, as you said, between the Adriatic coast and the mountain, especially the Grand Paso, massive, or the climate, the soil, the variety of capacity, or maybe a mix of all these elements. Yes. Slavic. This is a there are a mix of, elements as a deterrent war, the climate, the microclimate because you are between high mountains that are above above three thousand meter over the sea level to, the hills that are directing, ending at the Adriatic coast and the soil. The soil, we have especially a percentage of, thirty, thirty three percent of clay, gray clay. And, they that all the mix of this, won't make the difference. It gives us the possibility to a multiple channel variety grape, to make in this special area great wines. As, you can tell, speak about Canticlassico or brunel de Montelino, or particularly, this is a great, great soil and great climate microclimate. Great. Michael, I I need to tell you that after my visit in Abuzo, when we met the first time, and it was in two thousand seventeen, I can say that it's, and I totally agree with you. It's one of the most beautiful, region, in Italy. But at the same time, I got the feeling and I got the impression that this is also one of the most underrated regions in Italy. And, do you agree with me? And I think that you as, as an outsider, I think you have because you live close to Verona. I think you have a good perspective. So, I want to ask you In your opinion, Abruzzo as a region and also wines from Abruzzo, have the specific and characteristic something to offer, which can translate into also the commercial success of this place, the place of, Abruzzo as a region, of course, the wines produce there also. But, Slavic, but first of all, I feel, now as a a brusso, people now. It's a you're, like, a part of the Yes. I'm a part. And, and now I think, as a producer, a brutal producer. First of all, in this era, there are about a seventeen thousand hectare they are planted, it's a lot. It's a very big area, in all of Bruta with multiple channel grape. And, this is it means it's, a very, very big production. As we can see, say, the candy, not candy classic, but the candy area is, quite the same as seventeen thousand hectares. And so as, an area, you it's not possible that, all the producers have, as vision, the premium wines, a organic wine, a cold wine, or top quality. So you find top quality, iconic wine, one, at the same time, easy wine for multiple channels. This is why of the big area. And, the second problem is, I can tell you is the, the old mentality of the people who lives, who lives, but in the past, now I see a big change, with the new young produce a young, for farmers, they understood and understand the the high quality and the the possibility of this great variety. But, I think, and this is why we decided to invest in this area. The Abritzo entered the multiple channel grape variety give you as a producer, it's because, an farmer and a state, the possibility to produce a premium wine, but really premium, iconic wine, a cold wine, top with top qualities. And at the same time, if you want as a producer, you if you wanted to produce a little bit more, you can, produce a simply wine at the same time. So this is the possibility and, great opportunity of, offer, from this variety, top premium, and simply one at the same time. Yeah, Marco. But, Of course, we know that it's, potential is great, but, I want to, to come back to the beginning of my question about the under rated, or, of the abruzzo as a region, and because you've got a great product, but, honestly, I don't know if, are many peoples around the world that they, have a image of the Montecousiano as a high quality grapes and high quality wines. So we will talk it a little bit later, but I I think that, a blue saw, as a region has a lots of things to do to create the image of the region. Yes. Because it's absolutely fantastic place. To spending a time there. In the a blue society region has a lot of things to offer for the tourists. But I'm, from the point of view, of the, of of the person who will live in Poland, I think that it's nobody knows about it, about the abruzzo as a touristic place to visit. Tuscany is very famous. Now the puglia, it's absolutely great. The Sardinia, of course, the sicily, of course. How about the boots? It's so many to offer. Yes. We have a lot to offer because, hey, as tourist, you can spend your time your holiday, not only at the East Coast, and, but you you can, for example, take a bike and, make one hundred to thirty kilometers, on the bike road that's now is one of the nicest there. And long as the bike in Italy that is, quite, at the directly on the coast. And this is something of, nice in particular, but you you can, walk in the mountain, and we have a very nice place in the near, the aquila, and the near the grand sasso that, you can, see particularly places that, I have never seen, in my in my life, such nice places where nobody there is, and, no restaurants, no, no hotels that are, like, and as here or, in the mountain in in in in North Asia. Those are very, very nice, places there. But it's right. What you say? We have, to invest And we all have to invest. I mean, not only we as a producer as a states, but the the politician has to invest in publicity and then advertising for the territory. We have to make an upgrade for our airport. For example, in a Piscano that is a small airport, to then give the poor the possibility to the people to come to abroad. And, the consortium for, for example, has to invite them that the the consortium of Montepulciano make do a great job, but he'll and he inviting journalists, master classes, Silicon master class, not only in a brusso butter broad. They organize tasting in a brusso and abroad. They in the time the they make a invitation for influencer in borders. I tell you, the consorts of multiple channel, in this moment, to do a great job. Yeah. It's nice to hear you, but I think that maybe, the the government of the of the region and the So should invest the money to hire some, some director to create a great movie about the approved. So, like, it wasn't in Tuscany, or maybe they should offer some estate to buy far for a famous singer or something to make a fruitful more, more famous, not only in the wines, but also to, to other people because, A bridge is really fantastic, one fantastic place with the great wines for the fantastic food, with the fantastic landscape, and the great beaches also, the coast of the sea. It's, it's fantastic. And, the the environment there. It's very, very, very good. But we have, sorry. We have another problem in a group, sir, and the problem is that, about fifty percent of the brutal production is bottled outside of the region of Prutal. And, in some region, as Tuscany, for example, there are a lot of bigger bottlinger companies in Tuscany in Lumberdee in Veneto as well that they bought multiple channel. And so, they have no, you know, the the relation with the territory. And, yep, it's a it's a this is a for my opinion, a big problem. Yeah. Because it's also understood. And, they now with the new vintage two thousand twenty three, they decided now, to create ten sub areas in the browser. And if, as a producer, if you are in one of this, sub area, you can choose to produce a normally simply multiple channel or, sub era multiple channel, code, for example, the hills, from, or the, you know, or from Katie or Del Aquila. And so in these cases, you can sell the bulk wine in other region. You have to produce, to ferment it, the wine, to bottle the wine in the territory. And this is, a very important point that the consorts did. Okay. Michael, so let's focus, a little bit about, of the multiple channel as a great variety. We know that it's, it's not an easy, great to grow. Mainly due to its long maturation period. So, what kind of actions and efforts do you need to take, with your vineyards, and with your winemaking team to make a good well balanced multiple channel wine. A lot of first of all, you have, the multiple channel give you this opportunity. So if you wanted to create, to produce, a big, big multiple channel. Do you have to in invest in your vena in vineyards? So that it's, what do we do? And so you can reduce the quantity pro hector and produce of, the same time, a very, great, montepulciano. Montepulciano had the its plus and the advantage or a weakness. The advantage for the example is, the great variety have a lot of tenants, a good acidity, and that helps the producer to produce a really, top and perfect wine that can age more than ten years. The weakness is the problem the problem is that with a hot summer and drought summer as the last three years, the soil gets so hard that it cracks. It splits. And, in this case, we lose the humidity and the water that is in the soil. So you have to work a lot in the vineyards, but not only when you have hot summer and to draw summer, You have to work a lot. If, if, you have, a rainy season. So you have to remove the leaves. You have to remove the the branches with, Meldo, you have to deselect it to the benches. It's a lot of job work, but the only if you believe in the territory in this area in the multiple channel group, and you will in, with the Monteciano. You work in your vineyards. You can obtain a really big wine. Okay. So the, vineyard is the key. Yes. Yes. But it's not only in a protest of all over Italy. And, I I see, the switch in some region, began in the seventies, the beginning of the seventy, the same in the Kente classical, for example, they invested decided to pick producer, quality producer began to invest in their own vineyards or to buy new vineyards. Okay. My call. Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps, our books on Italian wine, including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guide to Italian wine, Sanjay Vazil, and other stories, and much much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. We know that, Abrito, it's, now not only for, famous for the multiple channel wines. Of course, multiple channel is the, is the main grape variety, but also we are serving a trend of, growing popularity, for example, of the Takolina wines, the white wine. I know that Pecorino is, from Barche, but also in Abruzzo, it's growing and growing. And, you make pecorino as well. We personally like very much. Thank you. So what do you think, is why we have the pecorino boom now? It's right. There actually, we have a pecorino boom. It's, especially in the restaurant in the wine shops, not only in Italy, but, in, the other country as well. Perhaps, it, it depends because the consumer now in this moment, is looking for indigenous grape, grape variety. And so one of these is, sure the pecorino is an old variety. In, in, there are two reasons, especially that, plants, this variety, this is Mark, as you told, and, abroad, as well, in abroad, we have about six hundred, six hundred, six hundred fifty hectas. It's not a big, large extension, but it's, interesting for the quality and, for the, opportunity to use this, disparity, not only to produce, fruit and fresh wine, but, gives you the opportunity to, to produce a complex wine. I mean, with a mineral notes. And So so some herbal notes, which I really like it in pecorino. Yes. And, if you obtain this, you can produce, pecorino that can age two, three, four years without problems. And this is the interesting aging potential that Picorino has. It's a small, but, now everybody that produced Picorino we are all, as we see in Italy, in the same boat. And, we try to produce a good quality, and that is, for everybody. Good. Yeah. Picolino is, also I think very food food friendly wine. It's very good to pairing with, some, for example, vegetable dishes like, asparagus that we ate, during the lunch together today. Yeah. So it's, it's very friendly, good, friendly wine. Yeah. Yes. With a fish, variety of fish. It's perfect. Or with, light pasta, you It's, in a in a brutal, for example, Pecorino is, with the people drink it as aperative, as well. Okay. Marco, A BlueJeans, in my opinion, have quite a bit of work to do in terms of the image building. You you told us about a high quality in multiple channel, and, of course, I I really appreciate what you do and your team, what you are doing with the with the multiple channel, and they I really appreciate your results. But on the other on the other hand, the image of the multiple channel for many decades the case, was created by the, powerful production of the Cantina Sochialen, the cooperatives, offering, a rather simple she de Monteciano da Blutsa, not so Trebiano da Blutsa wines. I don't value it. I don't say it's bad. And and, and, of course, I realize the production of the cooperative is, like, the backbone of the Italian winemaking. But what a new opinion should happen, to create the image, of the high quality multiple channel, and, how to create, the, the market for and the space on the market for the, montepulciano with the high quality with long aging potential, compared to this one, which is, very, popular on the mass market. My, it's, quite, difficult. I know. That's my last statement. Yes. But, the cooperative, they produce, about, eighty percent of the whole production of, of multiple channel. But the cooperative, now, in the last year, do a good job with the quality. They increase their quality. It's not easy as a cooperative manager to say, to the grow, where you have to produce less. And, because the mentality in many cases are as a grow where I produce more so I I win more. I have more money. So you have only one way as the cooperative or as a manager of, a big company to say to the grower, I pay you more but you bring me a better quality. And this is what's happened now in Napruzzo. The the mentality of the pen of the people of the manager, is just changing. Is not, not so easy to change, for a so big area. I told you seventeen thousand hector. But it helps that, small producer and, small estate as we are, are, going in another way of the quality and so Also, the cooperative decided in the last year to follow and to to follow to go this way. This is, interesting and, positive for, the region and for the multiple channel, wine, grape variety. In the past, it's right. The multiple channel had image of a simply wine. Yes. It's right. But, at the same time, you have to say that the positive, side of this is, that, some big producer or some, cooperative gives the opportunity to, export a, a great quantity of their wines in, I think all over the world. So, the positive is the knowledge for the consumer about multiple channels. The the next step is to show there is not only simply multiple channels, that, but you can find a great, premium or multiple channel or iconic or cult multiple channel. So this is, not only bad, but there are I see there are opportunity. The opportunity is that the people just know about the multiple channels so that the other have to invest and to show that there is another type, another quality for multiple channel. But I can say that, now, not only big, producer, but, at the same time, the small produce and big producer follow this way of the quality and to show there is another month to bridge. I know. Yeah. You're you're right, Michael. I agree with you that this is the this is the advantage. And, as you, as you said, that, when the consortium put a lots of efforts to create, a image of the, of the better quality of Monteaculiano. It's it's very good. And, and I it's very nice to hear it that they they they are thinking about it. It's very good. It's very good. No. I I assure you that, the consortium is due, I think, a revolution. All the other region in Italy are looking for what the consortium and the region is doing now. Because it's a revolution. We are the first, the first region that has a superior area that begin to speak about ten, ten sub area. One of this, for example, is the Colina tiramani. Of the tenth, sub era, this is the only wine, only one that had the the denomination of DOCG, the top level of quality, Appalachian wine in Italy. And, this is, really a good job of what, we all do now in a browser. That's great, Marco. And my last question about the Abruzzo because in the second part of our conversation, I would like to shift a little bit, to use your, experience and knowledge of the distributor. But my last question about the, the abruzzo and your wines, because you've got very particular project, which is called Oursus. It's a, VOCG coordinator, as you as you mentioned. It's a very particular wine, wines, which I love it. So, could you tell us something more, about this project? Hello. Our estate, is a thirty hectare biggest data. It's not so big. It's, but it's not so small. And, as my father, and the and I, and my sister, of course, decided to invest and to buy this hill that has a a big s form. We divided the hill in four vineyards. But, now I can guarantee you that, the whole hill is divided in seventeen plots. Why? Because of the the we we see that the quality in some plots are completely different as, with with the same, multiple China grape variety. As the other. So we decided to make something of a special, and the special thing is the quality begins in the in the vineyards. Everybody's speaking now about the qualities in the vineyards and It's right. Everything is quite. But, in the the case of, of, for support that we divide it in seventeen plots. The seventeen plots are because the area are different. The the soil are different. The conditions are different. The slope, one is facing south, one is facing south east, the other are west. And so you can talk about something like a MGA, like a MGA, Yes. Yes. It's, for, particularly. And, so we decided, the next step that we did is, we do now, is to produce the single vineyards or the the single the quality of the the the grape of the single plots for one wine or the, the addition of, two single plots for a particular wine. So we have, in this moment, seven types of multiple channel. And this is, something that, I I only listen now in that, for example, in Canti Glassico or in Barolo, yeah, whereas the producer has a single plot, single vineyards, the, the one is different of the other, and that they produce a single vineyard wine. Yeah. That's amazing. I think that, you know, not so many people, heard about it. It's a it's a long way, differentation than, takes, single. And, I mean, the our harvest is in the begins in the end of, August and the answer, the end of October, but two two and a half months of harvest, the Why? Because we decided to to harvest when, of the single plots when the quality is, reached the right moment and the the the the right condition of the grapes. The maturity of the grapes. So Okay, Marco. We've got a few minutes left. So now I would, like to refer a little to your experience also in the distributor distribution market. You have been an active observer and participant in the wine market for many decades. So, please tell me what market trends on the Italian wines you currently identify. My there is, we can speak, perhaps, during the COVID and after the COVID's time. During the COVID time, we saw that, the people spent more more need for, premium wines. They didn't travel. They didn't buy clothes. They didn't go to restaurants. So they had more money to invest to buy premium wine. But, in this time, we saw the change of the taste of the consumer. So after COVID's now the people started, again, to travel, to go to a restaurant, to co to buy clothes. But the the quality of the their taste is still of more quality and lesser of, cheaper wine. So, we see, interesting, people want to to have a higher quality. Yeah. They they they because they treat less. What's to happen in the next years? Yeah. The the people drink less quantity, but better quality. This is, a greater opportunity for all, or a producer. Yeah. Especially like you and your of your size and with your approach to produce the, the high quality wines. Yeah. And, for them, you're the man of, specific appilation or this wire the the the wind, the trained wind, but it's it's not easy to to to say because each nation, its counter has his his, smelled. So in as of, for example, you you sell more sweeter, sweeter wine or, wine with sweeter tenants, with a hiker alcohol. In Europe, for example, the people now ask more for fresh and fruity wine. Less I call in the USA, the wine is, they ask wine with a big structure. So it's, not, you have to to to to choose with which nation and, each nation has his trained line. For example, you you go to Germany and, one of the most, ask the, why biggest It's Uganda. Yes. Because of the people, they come to the Garden Lake, and, this operation in this area is close to to south to the Garden Lake. And so the people, drink in the holiday, Lugana. And when they go back home, they ask for Lugana. And, as you told, is, the Polia is another region, south of the region, where, now it's the Bumba for the primitive. But, tourists now go to Premier to Apulia. They drink primitive there, and so they know about primitive. That is what I saw. We have to do the same in agriculture. We have to to bring the people, the consumer in our country, in our, in our region. When they see the landscape, the territory, the the the land that they fell in love, and that they will buy multiple channels. Absolutely. I fell in love in a Also, thanks to you, Marco, because, I remember when I visited Sabruzzo on the first time we with with with you, you show me the the winery and the vineyards, and etcetera. And at the end of, of the day, you took me to the restaurant, and it was on the border between the Abruzzo and the and the market and the market. And it was, for me, it was, one of, absolutely fish and seafood the best dinner I have ever eaten. It was something absolutely absolutely gorgeous. Thank you. Yeah. And, Michael, but, about the trends, I what in your opinion, which markets, are the most attractive at this moment, for from the perspective of the Italian producer and distributor. It's Asia, it's US. It's Eastern Europe. Mano, it's, I think it's still North America and the Europe for, the quality wines, but, Asia is still increasing. Japan, for example, is Yeah. I know you've got a connections. Yeah. They're still very well in Japan, and, but there there are no, country as a, South Korea, Singapore, Vietnam, that, they a consumer begin to to drink Italian wine. And so the connection is better with Italian, the Italian tastes Italian wine, Italian food. And, for my opinion, these are now the new country, the new, area where, it's open an opportunity for Italian one or for multiple channel one. Okay. Great. And, Mark, Marco, my, last question we mentioned, the post COVID era. And, in some, of the producers I talked to told me that this is the time of the erosion of the idea of the wine first. And the, there's certain form formula has run out. Also, of course, because of the cost cutting reasons. How do you see, in it and what from your perspective as a producer and distributor? Does the Italian wine market need to develop and reach new groups of potential consumers? Yes. Yes. I tell you, yes, because, in the past that you said, the fairs, was more business business meeting points where, the people, the producer, made a real business and sold a lot of wine. Why? Because in the past, there were less fair. The fair were was smaller, and they were less producer. And so for importer, there was an opportunity to see in, in a small, fair. A lot of producer from more more areas of Italy. But now it's changed in the affairs. We we do a lot of affairs, but we see the affairs is not more business. It's more a public relation, moment where you meet your customer, your your clients. And, the problem is, as you told, the fair, cost a lot of money. And now, you know, the fur and also what is around the fur. Yes. It's the the chibbles, the chains, the prices are crazy in a thousand. But, this is, this is, a big a big question because, last week, I was in Switzerland. I spoke with some producers for Austria and, for Germany, and, they told me, for example, Oh, if they would, take place in the the, they provide, for example, in Italy or, the Paris fair. This is a big question because it is, a question of, the coast. And now you have to be, to to pay very attention of, where you invest your time and your money. So is it, for example, there are some fears that they moved, from, the area where they, they, and the first, fair where they are. Do they they meet to the, to to our eyes, yet, to USA or in other states of Europe. So There are another problem is the problem of the importer. And the pro importer have to choose in which fair he will concentrate his time. And, I I don't know. I think it's a hard decision for an importer and for the producer. And you which fair. You have to bet, to to invest there. And it can be good or It's a huge challenge for, all the players on the market, you know, because also, I've got also the same decision problems in the same decision dilemma when to go to Ben Italy or to to other. But on the other hand, I have heard for many people, the buyers, and they purchase, and also the producers Viniti this year was a huge success. Yes. It was a great success, from, importers, of all other. Yeah. Yeah. They were. Yes. Okay. So I think that, we should put a dot at this moment, because we've got a couple of minutes, for our listeners. So, Joy, we have we got some questions from our listeners. Hi there, Slawick. That was a that was a great conversation. I do not see any, questions from the public at the moment. Okay. But I could probably ask one thing that I was thinking about when you were talking about food. Yes. You were talking about Pequodino, and you were talking about asparagus. I love asparagus. I eat it every day. But I was gonna ask, Marco, what is what is your favorite food and, do you drink it with, one of your wines and which one? My favorite foodie is fish. Okay. Okay. You did say. You did say. Yes. There's not fish. I I I've been loving it to the fisseration. The restaurant, the tour is, I love fish, and then I love, not only pecorino. I'm sure I drink pecorino because I'm the producer, and I I taste some other pecorino as well other wine, but I love, and interesting in, other wines, white wine and red wine, of course, of all of the of all over the world. And so I live wine. This is, my, my business and, What to say? It's so No. No. That's that's fine. You like fish. Okay. So so you would probably have, you know, a fish dish with with yeah. Okay. That I I figured you were gonna say that, but I thought I'd ask just in case. Alright. Well, you guys, it is coming up to the end of the hour, and I am going to close the room. This is gonna play on the Italian podcast, so I will notify you when it is gonna come out probably next week, I think. And, if anybody has any questions that they want to ask at any point, even after this goes out on the podcast, then you can always email email us at info at italian wine podcast dot com. And we will send you, guys, the questions to answer. But Sure. Thank you so much. I hope you guys have a good tasting tonight and, you know, lots of good food and, and, good conversation. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you, Joy, and, thanks to everybody for joining us this, this evening. Sorry for the time. I know that's, four thirty on Friday. It's not time to make a club house. No. It's perfect. It's perfect. It's a drive time home, and there is starting the weekend. So maybe it's a good good time to open some, some bottles with Marco. We we will do in a couple minutes in one of my wine bar. So we wish to everybody a great, great weekend, weekend, and, here and see you next time. Oh, awesome. Yeah. You as well. And, actually, I forgot. Leica, are you there? I'm still here. Sorry. I was just wondering. What do we have going on next week? Yeah. So for next week, it's going to be, Angela Sacolo. He will be interviewing Lorenzo Cabino of Azalea. Azalea winery. That's gonna be on Thursday, and we actually change our clubhouse time to five thirty PM. So that's gonna be our new slot. So that's gonna be at five thirty PM, May twenty five, Thursday. Cool. Okay. Well, then, with that, I I I wish everybody a fantastic weekend, and we'll talk to you guys next time. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, MLIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and break the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, Chitching.