Ep. 1427 Michele Longari Interviews Giulia Pedrini | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay. Hello, everybody. How is everybody? My name's Stevie Kim. I am here with Leica today. Chalika. Chasti Vee. How are you? She's just sitting right next to me because, we're we'll be doing a tag team today. I have a I have a meeting. I will always double books, but I will start this, clubhouse. Tauv's TV. How are you? How are you? Oh, Ben. I'm here in the southwest of England. Actually, I'm doing this, Labaus, from Cornwall, which is quite, yeah. Yeah. I just, just got here for, you know, a couple of days of, staycation as they call them nowadays and, just relaxing. And, we have, a lovely weather as you know, I've been in the UK for ten years now. And, as you know, since, you know, very well, Mark Miller. Yeah. Here people are quite fanatic about weather and, weather forecast. So I think I'm becoming like dumb, Steven. Oh, great. Listen. How how has, the weather been the in, it by you, like in England and Oh, what? For me, since I come from, you know, Italy. Mhmm. It has been amazing because, sunny, twenty five degrees. But, you know, many of my friends, British friends, I've already started to complain that he's getting too hot and too dry. So That's pretty funny. You know, it's a different point of view, I guess. Okay. So for those folks out there today, this is called the Ambassador Kona, and it's more like a fire chat, fireside chat style. Where we have one of our ambassadors, at large. Today, for example, it's Nikkele Longari, and he is a Via Italian wine Ambassador. He got acclimated actually in the London edition. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. I think about less than a year ago. Right? It was July, I recall. Yeah. July twenty twenty two. Yes. Yeah. So Mikaela actually participated because sometimes we also do a, let's say, let's call it a satellite edition abroad, and we did it in London last year, and and Mikile, participated, and he was happy acclimated as the Financial International Academy Italian wine Ambassador status. So, Mikaela, tell us a little bit about what you do right now in terms of the wine business, what your role is. Yeah. So, as I mentioned, I've been living in the UK for, almost ten years now. And for the past eight years, I've been working for, a small independent, one importer called, HeyWise. And, basically, within the company, my main role is, purchasing director. So, basically, I am, directly managing all our direct imports from, Italy, France, and Spain. But I also, let's say, take care of, our portfolio, make sure that is consistent also for all, the main trends going on in the market, and also for all the other parts of, of the world. And, yeah, as you mentioned, less than a year ago, I did the, via a agile addition in, in London, and it was, like, an amazing experience. And, I met a lot of, very nice people there. That are still, I would say my friends now a day. And, yeah, so I think the the UK wide market is a is a vibrant, like, wide market because, you know, you have wine literally coming from all around the world. And I guess as, an Italian guy doing this job, in the UK, I also had the opportunity to find different ways to promote and communicate Italian wine, because obviously, the diversity that we have with Italian wines is something that, is very unlikely to see, anywhere else in the world. So the hay wines, is it exclusively Italian wines or is it Is it No. No. Of all wines. Yeah. Wines, from, all around the world, but, I would say that we take, a lot of pride in our, Italian wine portfolio because, obviously, I've been taking care of the Italian wine portfolio for eight years now. And, we have, you know, little gems from, the Italian peninsula that is very unlikely and difficult to find in the UK. So wise from all around the world, but, obviously, let's say that, I have always pushed a lot onto, expanding the Italian wine portfolio. Yeah. Excellent. Mikila, where where are you from originally? I can't remember. Modena or parma? No. Parma. Parma. Parma. Yeah. Parma. And, has your family been afflicted with the rain at all? Or No. Luckily, not because, the floods are affecting much more eastern part of, immediate, Romania. And, in Parma, you know, they had heavy rainfall, but actually, they didn't have, any issues at all. So we, in parliament, we have been, very lucky. And, unfortunately, we cannot say the same for all, the people from Romania, and, I have a lot of friends down there, and it goes, very, very, very, very sad. Yeah. Let's hope for the best. It's been kind of pouring everywhere. I was in Sard, and it was I mean, it was crazy rain for three straight days. So it's been, raining all over Italy and elsewhere, I I I think. So going back to the show, what is today's program? You will be, you will be interviewing Julia Padrini. Yep. And Julia Padrini, why did you select her as your interview y today? Yeah. So, Julia Padrini is, a part of the family running Cantina Pravis in, in Tarantino. And the Cantina Pravis is, I would say currently the work of two generations. That are, learning from each other, and also, let's say, complimenting each other. So this is very interesting. And this is very clear when you start discovering the different ways in their for you because, you can see at the same time, wise that are deeply connected, to the, let's say, agriculture or tradition of Tarantino. But they also perfectly coexist with wise that, let's say you have a more international style. In addition, the reason why I wanted to interview Julia from Cantina Travis is because pro Travis, not many people know that Travis have been leading the, let's say, Italian Avangarda of, producer experimenting and now believing in the so called, resistant, varieties that, as we know, as, you know, professor Shane always, tell us, they represent, actually, to some extent, the future of, Viticulture. So I actually told that, interviewing Julia would be very, very interesting because, at the same time, we can have a chat about obviously, Trentina wise, but I also would like to have a special focus on, resistant varieties because, privacy, they are, a specialist in resistant varieties. Well, Nikila, how did you discover Cantina Travis in the first place? Well, it's, it's a funny story because basically when I moved here to the UK, it was because, I wanted to do a master program in, wine business management. And when I was at UNi, I met a guy, team, and, which with, a very good friend of, Julia. And, basically, team kept, saying a lot of very good things about, Cantina Travis and Julia. And, basically, after a while, I managed to, meet Julia, actually in Verona at Vin Italy last year. And, since then, obviously, I had the opportunity, I I I actually didn't know that, they were so specialist in the resistant variety. So when, I met them the first time, as I mentioned last year in Italy, it was, you know, a bit of a shock for me to discover a wine producer that has, the same times, the typical wines of Tarantino, but then it has, a special range of wise from resistant varieties. So since then, I always wanted to, do an interview with Julia. And, I met again, Julia this year at Vin Italy, and we basically arranged to do this and then I sent the message to and here we are. Okay. Here you are. So tell us as you know, we need to outline in advance the learning objectives. So what should we expect from this, call today? From you, Julia. As I mentioned, I think that, with this talk, we could get a better understanding of, the most relevant wise and, great varieties of Tarantinos and, their historical value. Also, I would like to get, a clear view on, the most crucial challenges that the wine producer from this region are facing right now, which I think is a very hot topic. And, as I mentioned, obviously, getting insights and more detail about resistant varieties and, understand why producers like, pro Travis have been, basically investing a lot of time and money, on this kind of, grape varieties for the past twenty years. So I think it would be very interesting to hear from, an actual wine producer, why they decided to go down this path, which is obviously was very risky twenty years ago. Okay. Excellent. So I will now give the mic over to you, Mikaela, and then like us going to take over. Okay? So we will come back to you towards the end of the show, and then you can, to see if there are any questions. Okay? Okay. Tell me, Kelly. So, I just want to give a brief introduction about, yourself, to the, other listeners. So, we can say that Julia basically was literally b born to do, this job because, basically, the the the story of Julia in the in the wine industry starts very, very, very early when she was basically a baby and a girl when she was playing in the with her dolls in the in the wine cellar while her father was actually making wine. And, I always found, very interesting that, Julia told me that basically she never even considered doing anything else with her life rather than working with wine. And, in order to do that, she went, you know, She had a deep focus in her studies because, she basically graduate took a degree in, as a, you know, technical from, the, Institute Takri of San Mikale. And then she went, off to London, to do the WSTT diploma. And, once she had done that and she got back to Italy, she basically understood immediately that if she wanted to make a change and have a clear impact in her family business. She had to fill some gaps of knowledge in, marketing and, management. So she went back to Uni, and she also took, a degree in, business management. Currently Julia is mainly dealing with the commercial side of the business, but, obviously, she since this is, a family business, in particular, during BCP, it is in in particular during harvest. She is always helping in, also the production side of the business. So, actually, it's very good. I think to have a chat with Julia because, we can have, a very clear view, of the wine business, all around because, in this, in this way, I think, it would be even more, meaningful. To the to the listener. So, Julia, did I, describe, your, let's say, all in the business correctly? Perfectly. Yes. Yeah. Correct. Okay. So I would say, actually, we'll immediately start with our, chat because, there are many, many different things that we like to cover with you. So, let's start from the beginning with a brief introduction of, probably. So as I mentioned before with Stevy, privacy is currently seeing two different generations, working together. Can you tell us a bit more about, your state its story. And, basically, how is it managed nowadays? Sure. But first of all, thank you very much for inviting me here. It's a it's really a pleasure for me. And then, yes, Travis winery is my family business winery and is located in the Valadee LA in Trenton region. It was founded in, nineteen seventy four by my father and two friends. In fact, after completing they're studying, in a technology. The the dream was to promote our territory with a private winery. It started, really as a game with a stainless steel tank and two barrels in my ground father's garage, so really a super game. The the company gradually expanded. And today, we we produce around two hundred thousand bottles on the thirty six sectors of, of Vineyard here in the ballet. And today, the winery is managed by us. There's a continuation. So me and my sister, we take care of the winemaking and the marketing, while silvio and Alacio, children of one of the other founding partners handle the the beauty culture aspect. Our parents, I have to say he'd have done a really great job of empowering us of instilling a lot of for wine in us since we were super young. I remember when it was something like, I don't know, four or five, and we were tasting always tasting wines at home. And my father used to tell me put your finger in and tell me what you can feel. So since the beginning, I've been drinking since I was very young. Let's say that. But, but they really continue to, to offer their silent support, to the company, giving us confidence, and encouraging us always to do better and better. Thank you very much, Julia. And actually, I must say that, the way a lot of people, actually start, this job is, thanks to this kind of, experiences in their family because, obviously, if you start at a very early age. It's much, I think, easier to get, passionate like, like we are, I would say. So, you mentioned that, obviously, privacy is, position in the validate, laggy. Can you tell us something more about, your area specifically? And what makes it, so special when, it comes to wine? Yeah. Valle Valle. Is a valley located in southwestern Trentino. Known, actually, for a strong multicultural location due to its, unique pedoclimatic characteristics. In fact, the the influence of the Gard Lake, which is super close is like less than twenty kilometers away from us. And the other seven lakes that we have here in the area create a kind of a Mediterranean climate. In fact, we are the last European we are in the last European parallel to give you an idea where olive trees are cultivated. And in our forest, we have all milk, which, honestly, have really a little to do with the dolomitic climate. The, the soil that we have here is divided between the dolomite soil, which is actually carbonate of calcium and magnesium soil, super rich minerals, and perfect for white, white production. Or red wine production, such as the pinot noir, for example. And on the other part of the valley, we have a luminous field, and the in the in the Sark, in the Sarta Valley, which is the valley that goes to to the to the Carta Lake. The most important thing in, in our valley, I have to say which is crucial is the or the guard. The or the guard is the wind that blows daily from the lake through our valley, ensuring exceptional grape earth and really, again, a unique kind of climate. Yeah. I think that, actually, validilag is very, very interesting because as as you said, basically, it's, is a pocket of land with a very specific, and it would say very different, condition. And, I think this makes it, so interesting. So, I think this introduction was necessary to give, obviously, our listener, a better understanding of, the foundation of your work at, Travis. But now let's, start talking, a bit more about, why need start? So, first of all, can you tell us what are, the main grape varieties, grown by Pravis? And, how would you describe, generally speaking the styles of, your wise? Yeah. I think, and I like to say that, our production is mainly divided into three periods into three moments, in the past, with all the Tarantino grape varieties, such as, Nazzola, Negra, Franconia, which represent our roots and our history. In the present, when the international groups bulgated to our region, like the pinot noir, the Subignon blanc, the Vurtraminer, and in the future, we actually embrace the use of, resistant varieties, known as PIVi, which symbolize our growth and, our adaptation, to the Viticulture team. Our winemaking style, primarily reflects the the territory. First of all, that's the most important thing. And the characteristic of the land, and then, secondly, the grape variety. So what I always try to do when I talk about my area, when I talk about the the my winery, first of all, is the soil, the environment where we are. And in the second hand, the great variety and the way that we have to to enhance their naturally their natural characteristics. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Julia. And, so, obviously, you describe, the actual identity of privacy that, as I was saying at the beginning of, the the our chat, is basically, divided between, the traditional, grape varieties and, wise, of Taranto, and, let's say, more innovative or, let's say, international wise. So, in your opinion, what are the the wise or, the type of wines or the style of wines that do you think would support, the growing popularity of Tarantino, in the coming years? For sure, I think that for sure, trying to dog sparkly one is indeed having a very positive effect on the popularity of thirteenth region. These traditional methods, sparkling wine produced, like, a kind of champagne using sardonnay, pinot noir, pinot blanc, pinot mania grapes has gained recognition both nationally and internationally for its quality and distinctive character. Furthermore, the indigenous grape varieties, which are the heart of our region will certainly have an impact on consumers, varieties such as, as I said before, McGara, but even Teraldego, Martimino, you know, they have a unique kind of flavors and characteristics that reflects the local terroir and one making tradition. Yeah. I think that, yeah, Trento Doc is definitely something that, not only, obviously, the national market in Italy, but, also abroad, is becoming more and more popular because I think that, obviously, twenty now is the perfect condition to make, top quality traditional methods part in wine. And, I agree that they actually could be, something like, creating, a trend towards twenty, you know, and, obviously, all the other wise and the varieties will obviously, benefits from, from this. Julia, I think we had, also, a chance of, discussing about this, in verona when we met up in Italy, this year. We are discussing that basically, is getting basically very clear, that, climate change is bringing every year more and more challenges for, wine producers. I wanted to ask you, how is, climate change, let's say, changing your, approach to Viticulture. And, also, what kind of impact is deciding on, your style of wise? Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Yes. Climate change is indeed a pressing issue. That poses significant challenges to agriculture as a whole. In, for our region, cultivating, the higher altitude can help to to regulate the timing of the harvest season, but for sure it cannot solve the problem of extreme weather events. I believe that, in order to address this change, is very important to prevent it. First of all, by protecting the nature and, what we already have. This includes, limiting the use of machine in the vineyard. For example, like, you know, to actors or reducing the emission of chemical substances. For this reason, our approach is increasing shifting towards to cultivation of the resistant varieties. As we said at the beginning, you know, these varieties have naturally resist natural resistant to specific disease. So we can actually reduce the need of chemical, chemical, products into into the air and, into the in into the soil. And also, we can cut, but when I say cut, I mean, seventy percent, ninety percent cut the use of tractors and the use of machinery into the, into the vineyard. I think that it's very important to to promote a more, sustainable and vermont environmentally friends, friendly approach to Tubiti Cortal. And, this is the the kind of solution that we that we found. Yeah, Julia. I'm glad, you, talk about, resistant, varietals because, actually, I also think that, is very important to prevent as much as possible, all, the factors that are actually, making climate change quicker. Or even worse in some cases. And, as the, when I first, let's say I started to discover resistant varieties, I also found, found them very interesting because, basically, they are even beyond, organic in terms of, soil, consumption, and actually, you know, nowadays, we talk a lot about a minimal intervention and, resistant varieties are definitely, working this, direction. So, basically, are are varieties that are able to protect themselves. So, basically, the human intervention is, captured to a very, very minimal level. So, resistant varieties or pee with varieties, have a very deep root, with the story of, privacy. Currently, this is a very important topic in the world of wine. And, we have, you know, very important, scientists like, professor Shins, for instance, that, they are, pushing a lot into this, direction. And, we cannot say the same for twenty years ago. So, actually, the situation twenty years ago was completely different. Can you tell us why, you decided to plant the first whys of these type of varieties? And, why did you decide to go down the spread that, at the beginning was, like, a very risky, and I think that probably some people, told that you are, crazy doing that. So why you are so from the very beginning, you are so committed to this kind of work? Yeah. We in fact, we we planted our, first P. V. P. V. P. P. P. P. P. V. P. V. P. P. V. P. P. V. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. V. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. Two years ago when it was still completely unknown. Believe me completely even from other wine producers in the area or in Italy completely unknown. Everyone that looked at us, like, I don't know, aliens where we we were trying to explain them, our, our project. However, my, my father immediately recognized the beauty culture and the technological potential of of this kind of grapes. The idea was born, from a simple, territorial reason. We live in Argentina. We live in a region where, room for agriculture is becoming increasingly limited. You know, between mountains, lakes, towns, roads, and by path, the availability plots for lands is is very few. Over the years, there has been growing focus on environmental concerns and human health rightfully prohibiting fetal standard treatments in the rural areas and further reducing cultivation possibilities. From our perspective, PV variety have become the only solution by eliminating or reducing treatments, as I said, really reducing, including copper and sulfur because men, what I realized over these twenty years is that, ninety percent of the people when you try to explain this project, they they at the end, they tell you, oh, your bill. I said, no. We are not Leo. We cultivate P. We are actually more than Bill because we don't use even copper or sulfur. So we are, as our line is called zero impact. So we we actually minimized, as I said before, the use of our recorder and machinery. And, we came back. We we did go back to cultivate in, previously abandoned land. To give you an idea, one of these varieties that, so we agree, for example, is, is cultivated next to a nursery school. I mean, what other variety, what other kind of encounter space can have close to a nursery school? This is, really amazing from my point of view. Yeah. It it really is. And, it's so, unfortunate that, these kind of, varieties are, finding, let's say, some kind of resistance from, the the wine market. And, I think as, it's very clear reading, the last book of, Artilio Shain's buying and prejudice. It's very clear that basically there is a part of, the wine, market that basically is trying to prevent these varieties to, become more, and more important. Maybe, they are scared that, they represent, like, some kind of threat or danger to the white market. It's very, very difficult to, to move forward. And, I think that one of the reason why, resistant varieties are still, an issue is because, a part of the the the the wine industry, including wine producer, are very concerned that, for the fact that, these resistant varieties, physically are hybrid varieties. You, are not able to, arrive at the same quality level of, let's say, the traditional varieties. And, so when I cosmet you, in the middle of twenty twenty two, I was, very shocked to learn that actually, not only you had been experimenting and working a lot with the resistant varieties in the past twenty two years. But also after many, many years of experience, trials and errors, you have been able to develop, a lineup of three different wines, from, resistant varieties. Obviously, I'm talking about the lineup, Naran zero impact. And, it is composed of, two white and one sparkling wine. Can you tell us, so first of all, why did you decide to give, to this range of wise, this specific name, and, how would you describe the three different wise, in the, Naran, range? Specifically in terms of, tile and, characteristics. Yeah. The name, Naran, actually comes from the location where our first, PV grapes were planted. So it's actually a name of allocation. And the wine line, is called, as you said, the impact, because it seemed to us that it was the most appropriate name as it truly is, the impact. You know, we have, planted at the moment over fifteen PV varieties. But currently, as you said, only, three of them are available on the market because with the others, we are still conducing micro unification. We have to do it. I mean, it's really important to do this micro unification and to do research because I think that everybody can tell how potentially a covered in a souvenir could be in ten years, county, narrow the hour. I don't know, a Soviet Blanc. You know, how, you, you know, if this kind of wine is, I'm gonna say, vocation to to aging or if it's not. But nobody knows. Nobody used to know if, Browner would be good in twenty years or, solaris could be durable in the next, seven years or it, if the the the the changing would be would be too strong. So micro education with the others is crucial. As you said, we have three. One sparky one, that, that is made with Unita grape variety, which is a fantastic grape for sparkling wine making because even at full phenolic maturity, it maintains a very high acidity. To give an idea when we harvest it usually at the end of August, the seed is completely black. So fully phenol full phenolic maturity, but it has eleven grams per liter of acidity. So, actually, perfect for the starting wine production. For the other two, they are two steel wines. We have a solaris and, sovignacry. They have distinct, aromatic profiles. So large, for example, it's more citrusy, and it reminds a little bit of riesling, which is part, part of the blog of this this variety, while Sony agree has more tropical notes. But the interesting thing about this white peeling grapes is that, both are characterized by significantly higher polyphenol contact, compared to a regular white wine, regular white, grape varieties, requiring to a very delicate handling during winemaking. This is something that we learn after a few years. You know, we press them so gentle like, like, doing it by hand. So this is the main the main difference. Okay. And, Julia, you, basically said that that you have more than fifteen different, resistant varieties, at the moment in your vineyards. But, obviously, you make, wiserly from three of them. And, basically, with the others, you are still doing, experiment or, let's say, microvignification. Can you describe, to our listeners a bit more, in detail, What do you mean with micro unification? And, why is it important to, to do that before actually releasing this kind of, wise? With the micro unification, I mean, that we do the wine as normal. So we harvested the every year, we we try to change the harvest time to see the difference between one week before before and later. And we we do it. Alone and we bottle it, but we don't sell it. So we wait. We wait years and years. In this way, we can try it. We can try it in the bottle after one year after two years, after five years, after ten years, these in order to be able to, say to the customers how is actually evolving, how is, how is going on, what they have to expect from this kind of of wine and how the harvest did influence the quality of the of the of the final product. So, for example, we just so we agreed to cast ten years to to go out because first, we produce it without skin. Then we tried it to do a a micro verification with skin contact inside this, but I still think, but we realized that the quantity of polyphenolic, inside the, naturally inside the skin was a little bit too high, and the the one who was becoming bigger at the in the mouth. So we prefer to, to take the skin away. So, you know, or little kind of, let's say, mistakes that we learned from them. And that we but they are crucial. I mean, you always had to learn, and you always had to understand how they're becoming and what you're going to sell. Well, I think it's, I mean, this is, amazing because this is a very pragmatic approach, and, I think it's fascinating because, obviously, you are, discovering basically a new world because, as you mentioned, We don't have a chronological history of how this kind of varieties performing two, three, five, seven, ten, twenty years. And, obviously, it's, amazing that you're doing, this kind of work because, obviously, it's clear that, you are not only, doing this, for privacy and your customers, but basically, You are also, helping, the word of resistant varieties to, move forward. Because, I remember, in verona, you also mentioned that, you have a very straight relationship also with the, the the divide that are actually, creating the new, the new varieties and the new clothes. So, basically, it's not that you're just doing, this job to make sure that you have the good wife, to start to your customer. But at the same time, so you are helping the researcher to to move forward. Is that correct? Correct. Exactly. At the beginning, In fact, when we planted the the grapes, we went to to fry book before we planted it, and we asked to them to to the research center to to have these grapes because we were are fascinated by them, and we wanted to plan them and to see because we thought that it was the only solution to to to to give a possibility to the agriculture. So we became a kind of, how can I say experimental center? So they used to send us the grapes. And, we did give back to them, like, a kind of, notes. With all the changes, not just in the wine, but also in the vineyard, in the grapes, how it was going. So, yes, we had that this partnership. We have this partnership with the Fryburg Institute. That really had us a lot, to start and to go on, you know, twenty five years ago was, the only one. Now everybody, even Italians, and producers or vines are are doing them. So now it's a little bit different, you know. But, at the beginning, we will we really started with the with the first one. So with the Fry Book, It's, I think the the work you have been doing in the for the past twenty two years, it's, it's very, very important. And, Julia, obviously, I think that, all, the listeners noticed that, there aren't any red wires in the, Iran, zero impact range yet. When I met you in Verona, you told me that, With the right varieties, you were having a bit more issues, managing them and, basically, making very good quality wise. You also mentioned that you are still doing trials experimenting, and that you are not one hundred percent, happy with the final results. Yes. As of today, what is the situation in terms of, red varieties right, obviously, be with varieties. And, are you actually optimistic about, introducing a red wine in the narrow range anytime soon? Yeah. As you as you said, in our line, there are no red grapes varieties. And, I would say mainly for the reason. Firstly, when, when we started our experimentation, the red grape varieties from frybrook were restricted due to the production of secondary compounds. So we couldn't this is something that we do. We realized years, only years later, but we then actually, produce wine from those grapes used to these, compounds. However, this issue has been effectively resolved with the introduction of new clothes. So now it's absolutely possible to to produce wine from red p b grapes with the no problem. But the main thing is that, red p b varieties tend to still taste a little bit. Allow me allow me the word, wide. So two American notes are inside the wines. They're too they have two foxy taste. So this is something that, are not into the consumer preferences. I think that, there is still work to do, still work to to be done in term of refining the flavor and the characteristics of this right variety. To better sweet the taste of the consumer because at the end, we can produce, the best one. We can produce the best thing. But if nobody likes it, the the it's it's pointless. So, yes, it's still, a little bit to to to American taste today. Let's say that. So we will see. We will see if we will if we are going to add, alright, then Alright. Naran, two hour line. But it's probably going to happen, but in a few years. Okay, Julia. And, obviously, I just want to point out that when you were referring, that, the right wines from, resistant varieties had the, American notes that was due to the fact because not, maybe not all the listener know that, the way the that basically resistant varieties were born. As I mentioned, are hybrid varieties. So, basically, across between the, let's say, the European wines, the traditional ones, and the American. Vice that obviously are the so the VITis Vineifera and the the wide, VITis. Obviously, the American part is the part, and, obviously, Julia, correct me if I'm saying anything wrong because, obviously, you know, much, much more than me. No worries. So the American part is giving the resistance to disease and, and pathogens to to device, but also is also the part that gives, more more wild, and let's say, less elegant and refined note to the final product. While, obviously, the European part of, the resistant varieties is what gives the traditional eleganceiness that, we know is my, basically, description correct? Yeah. Yeah. I just want to add that, actually. Maybe because maybe, it's not super clear. PV varieties are actually interspecific crosses. What it means, this means that they are obtained by crossing American or asean wines, such as Viti Suriparia, Viti Ruparesis, rupestris, or, I don't know, Viti Sanulenses, from Asia, for example, with our Viti Vinchera. What's the point? American wines having, indeed, the developed resistance to fungal diseases like, tornospora, botrytis, so idiom, over the centuries, unlike our VINitha, VINiferadette, Pourwan, was unprepared when those diseases arrived. So, it's not an immediate process to obtain a solaris. For example, there are more than fifty different varieties that, are crossed. So it's really a long work to to obtain the the the resistant. I want to underline the fact because sometimes happen, then people think about PIV and think about OGM, They're not, friends. Okay. Not at all. They're just interspecific crosses between two different species. It's more common to to to know about crosses. So between two beaches, Vineifer, like, I don't know, in the, here in Francino, we have a rainbow. Revo is Merlo cross Teroldago. Okay. So two different kind of, right, varieties, but both from the Vineiferous species. In this case, we have two different species. That's why interspecific process. I don't know if I was clear. Yeah. No. Thank you. Thank you, Julie. I think you, you, actually made this very clear. And, as you mentioned, I think in the word of one, we are very used to the word cross because we have a lot of varieties, even important varieties that are a cross of, two different varieties within the bit is a bit of a species. What makes the resistant variety so special is the fact that they are cross between two different species. And this is what gives a naturally, resistance to the, to the final variety. So, Julia, we are reaching the end of our conversation. I think we could, actually discuss, about, resistant varieties for hours and hours, but I want also to leave a bit of time in the end to, some questions if we have any questions. So I have to, very quickly, to last question that I always like, to ask, to, produce, when I do this kind of, a fireside chats. So the first one is, when communication, obviously, is a very hot topic right now. I think that, to some extent, we are, at, a crossroad, where a wine producer are trying to find, the best and the most effective way to share as much as possible of their values with the final consumers, without over complicating things. At Travis, I think we can say that you have always given very high relevance to international markets and to the export business. And, I just wanted to ask you, Julia, from your, direct experience. What are the three, most important, words, or objectives, to be used when communicating and, promoting Italian wine, abroad. What I think. I think that nowadays, you know, good wine is indeed produced in many countries around the world. So my opinion to stand out we need to emphasize what we are. We are in Italy. We need the to everybody to know our analogical history, the analogical history of our country, the incredible number of indigenous great variety that we have, and nobody else have something like that, and they're remarkable, pedoclimatic diversity that characterized, our land. So definitely, history, number of indigenous varieties, and, a pedoclimatic diversity, I would say. Yeah. Actually, Julia, I totally agree because, I think that, the level of diversity that we have, in Italy, combining, the number of, grape varieties, micro climates, and even solace, because, from Northern Italy to Saudi, we have, many, many, many different types of soil. Combining these three different variables, we reach an incredible number of different wines and styles of wine. So I I I I agree with you. It is, the by far, the most important thing to, underline when, describing Italian why, in my in my experience, personally, I also found that, this is also the most difficult path. So at the same time, it's like a strength and the potentially a weakness because on on on one end, obviously, we have this, great diversity. And on the other end, for some, wine consumers abroad around the world. It might be very difficult to understand Italian wine, especially if they have never been to Italy because, Obviously, we cannot assume that, everyone is very familiar to, let's say, the type of climates we have in Central Italy or, in Italy or in Tarantino because maybe in in the export markets, there are a lot of people that I never visited Italy. So, have you found, in the past? Any issues, trying to describe, let's say, your region. So where Trentino is, and the different varieties. Or have you found, normally, that, why consumers looking for, your, whys are already, have already a level of knowledge that is, quite good. No. For sure. For sure, I found many problems talking about Argentina because, you know, if, in particularly abroad, when I, I don't know, talking about US, for example, average people think about the Italian wise, and they think about Barrolin County. That's it. So when I explain to them, I always need to do a kind of, geographical, introduction. When I say, Trentino, Trentino is in the middle between dolomites and Gardelake, and then they understand. So it's not easy to to promote their their region, the region approved. That's that's for sure. And even the the varieties that, that we have, you know, we have some very, very big wine or in Tarantino, and the problem is that what they do, they do just in international varieties such as pinot grigio and the barlow. So everyone think that, Trentino is famous for pinot grigio, but it's not because Tarantino is actually, beautiful region with many indigenous varieties and many and a and a lot of potential for other varieties. So that's that's the main problems that, I found them myself in abroad. Yeah. I I totally agree. I think that, I would say abroad the the the wide knowledge of, consumers abroad, when it comes to Italian, wine in scotland, mainly on, three to five, white regions, And then, you need to, obviously spend a lot of time, describing, the different, the other regions and, diar characteristics. So, I think we have reached the end of our chat. I have one very last question for you, Julia. So I give you three options. One, web and social media. Two, PR and press, and three, wine tourism and the hospitality. So if you, you know, as a company director, you were giving, enough resources let's say both in terms of time and money. So don't think about money. You are giving enough time and money to do whatever you want. But, you could invest only in one of these three, marketing partners. Where you would, invest your time and resources and why. Okay. Without a doubt, I definitely choose, wine tours, ma'am. Really one hundred percent. I believe that is the best way to educate consumers, to make them perceive and understand what lies behind the bottle on the shelf. So because, you know, wine is not a beverage. Wine is history, is culture, is hard work, is there work, And this concept needs to be known. And I believe that there is no better way to do it, than with wine tourism. You know, visitors can immerse themselves in the beach cultural environment, explore vineyards, observe the work of winemakers, and producer, and even participate in, in guided tasting sometimes. This tangible experience, really enable consumer to to develop a deeper connection with the wine, understanding its production process and appreciating the dedicate work and passion that goes into each bottle wine. Wine tourism, is becoming really a bridge between the producer and the consumer, allowing the transmission of knowledge, experience, and stories that might Otherwise, not be fully understood or appreciate. So it's a thing that is really, an opportunity, that, needs to be considered and, valorized. Yeah, Julie. I think that, basically, I think this is, very linked to what we we we said before about, you know, maybe some issues that that there are currently describing, lesser known regions of, Italy. And I think, yes. The answer is not, you know, taking any shortcut or any easy, path. The only thing is to invest a lot in, making sure that more and more people are coming to different the diff to visit the different, wine regions, and, wine producers. And when they go back into their own country, they will start to basically becoming, small, Italian wine, Ambassador, because they will, want they will demand, the, their national importers to, to get the the wise they, discover when they were abroad. So, I agree. It's a very You know, it's a very long, pattern difficult path to follow, but, I think that, yes, wine tourism and the hospitality is, by far, the most effective way to have, very good result in, in the long term for, Italian wine. So this was, my very last question. Thank you very much, Julia, and, like, over to you, if there are any other question from the audience or, if you have question yourself. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Julia and Mikkele. It was really well prepared. And, you guys really prepared for this clubhouse. So that's really amazing and really appreciated. And I'm sure, it's really words, listen. We recorded it, and it will be up on Italian podcast around June fifteen on Thursday at, in the morning around eight AM. So, yes, thank you so much for your time, and guys, for those who are listening in, do you have any questions for Julia? We still have a minute. So maybe if you have any questions, you can raise your hand. Okay. So, alright. So we don't have any questions at the moment. But if If you have any questions in the future, you can reach out, to Julia, or you can reach out to Italian wine podcast info at italian wine podcast dot com, and then we're going to forward the questions to Julia. Alright. So before I wrap, I wrap up, I wanna say that our next clubhouse is going to be next week. It's going to be, on June fifteen at five thirty PM, Italian time zone. So, Bella Ma, she's our Italian wine Ambassador from Hong Kong. We'll be interviewing Luca Rowanya. So that's going to be next week. Alright. So that's it. Thank you so much, Mikaela and Julia. And, yeah, have a good weekend, guys. Thank you, Lakea. Thank you, Julia. Bye. Thank you very much. Thank you. Again. Here we go. Swirl sniff, sip sniff. While you drink, don't forget these testing tips. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, chi ching.