Ep. 1476 Matt Irwin Interviews Chiara Boschis | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Since twenty seventeen, the Italian One podcast has exploded and expects to hit six million listens by the end of July twenty twenty three. We're celebrating this success by recognizing those who have shared the journey with us and giving them the opportunity to contribute to the on the success of the shows. By buying a paper copy of the Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a donation to help the ongoing running costs, members of the international Italian wine community will be given the chance to nominate future guests and even enter a price draw to have lunch with Stevie Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. To find out more, visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay. Hello, everybody. Oh, there's Kiara. Charles, Stevie. Jock Yada. I'm so so excited to have you guys with us today. This is very exciting. I'm a little bit jealous. I would love to interview Kiana myself, Matt, but this will have to do. So thank you for joining us. This is what we call the ambassadors corner. You both have potty hats which means you're new members to the clubhouse. Believe it or not. I would say about two, three years ago this used to be like the place to be. An incredible platform and where people met and we had great discussions. We started this Italian wine club. I would say two more than two years ago because this is actually our hundredth anniversary episode. So hold on one second. I have some special effects. Did you guys like that? This is like this is my I love it. I am the master jam here. Yeah. Okay. So first of all, I'm going to introduce Matt. The Ambassador Corners works like this. One of our Italian wine ambassadors at lodge, they choose their favorite producer and they get to do a deep dive more like a fireside chat style for about sixty minutes. In the beginning, I thought people would get bored out of their minds. It's very long. But believe it or not this is one of our most popular shows and let me just wait do some wagering here. I will put my money that today's episode will be one of the most popular listens of all time because we they're not many of us here today but we we play this the audio on the Italian wine podcast and that's where we have a huge, huge following. So Let's get on to the show today. Today's mod is Matt Erwin. Chamat. Charles Stevy. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited tonight, especially to have my friend Kiara with us. Oh, you're you may be excited, but how how what time is it? Where where are you? Are you in Bruce Maine? Yeah. And, I'm in Sydney Australia as one thirty in the morning. Shit. And you're still awake. I am. I am. I wouldn't have missed it. Okay. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you for making that supreme sacrifice. So for those who are unfamiliar with Matt, Matt Erwin, where did you grow up? Yeah. I grew up in Brisbane. Yeah. You have that terrible Ozy accent. So I figured as much. That's right. And then, but you kind of you kind of moved around a bit, though. Right? I know you have a, Canadian wife. Are you still married? That's right. Yeah. Absolutely. I lived down. We all lived down in Sydney with two kids. It's it's holding strong. But yes, I met her over in Europe, a long time ago. It will. We don't want to date ourselves, but how, how when did you start with wine? When did you get the wine book? About fifteen years ago. After I left Europe, I moved we moved to Canada, and I lived in Calgary for six years. And, that's where I started, working with Italian wine, with an importer there in Calgary. And from there, I haven't stopped with Italian wine. Okay. And now you're also working with an Italian wine importer. Is that correct? That's right. So I was working with Trend Bath and Taylor. I think Australia's best Italian wine importer. For eleven years, but I recently left. I now work for WSTT, the wine and spirits. Yeah. Because when you came down to Italy, you were telling me you gave me kind of an anti prima of, about this new job here. So you're no longer working with the Italian wine in Florida, but you are now working with w Set. And what is your role in w Set? So I'm business development for Australia and New Zealand. So I get to hang out with, all the educators in Australia. Okay. Excellent. Mhmm. And you are also in the MW program? Yes. Just did my stage one exam couple weeks ago. How do you feel? Yeah. Okay. We'll see. We have a bunch of a few months away. So I put it out evening night. Okay. Great. We have a bunch of, of course, members, from the Via community. Part of the master wine program and some of them are in fact master wines themselves but more importantly you have been anointed as the Italian wine Ambassador in the Vineet International Academy program just just now recently in April. That's right. Yeah, I that was exciting to get that one. I'd wanted that for a few years and COVID had held it up. And finally, I got to, achieve a just a couple of months ago. Okay. Great. So tell us why you have chosen. I mean, you you work for an Italian wine importer. You know thousands of your winemakers, I'm sure. So why did you select Kiara Boskies? To be in the world. Because she's my favorite in both her wines and the person. Oh, my goodness. Is Kiara is beautiful, and her wines are as well. I couldn't I couldn't agree with you more because, I mean, I love I love you, Matt, but I love Kiara more. I have to be quite honest. Mhmm. I agree. Most people would. Most people should. So tell us how you met Keara. So yeah, with working with Trent Barton Taylor, I got to know who wines, but I I went and visited Barolo, in twenty fourteen, and I walked Canoebe Hill with Kiada, and she, we had lunch in the winery together. And, that's when I realized she was a really wonderful, special person making wine in a incredible place as we as we know with Barolo. But then Cara came out to Australia in twenty seventeen to to, to work, with her wines, but, she got to hang out for a few days in Sydney with us. And that's when, we really got to know her. She got to take my kids, and my wife took her to the wrong the zoo to see the kangaroos and koalas. Oh, nice. I went to visit her too in November, and it was pretty pretty amazing what she's doing with the with the Canoebe, cause that. Okay. So as you know, we get a bit geeky around here. What are the learning objectives from What's going on there? Are there kangaroos in the room? I do love a I do love good learning objective working for WSTT. So, we're gonna learn about Kiara's story, from growing up in Barolo and then taking over her own winery. As a young woman, in nineteen eighty one. So how was that and, you know, her experiences? I wanna know about how the region and its wines have changed over the years and what we can look forward to in the future. Change must have a positive as well. Or I'll also talk about her project on Canoebe, to be bringing in the bio project there for organic farming on an entire area, is I also wanna know a lot about. And then her cheese. Castommanuel, cheese. We're gonna learn about cheese from the Alpine Hill as well. Yeah. I didn't know about her, cheese, adventure. Okay. Alright. Listen. So, Matt over to you now. So let's get into this and I will come back. I will actually mute myself which rarely happens. So you have to take full advantage. And I will come back towards the end to see if we have a a little bit time for q and a. Okay? Okay. Alrighty. Beautiful. Thanks, Katie. While I I have the beautiful honor of introducing my friend Kiara Kiarobotskis is a superstar in the Italian wine world. She's a revolutionary who has worked incredibly hard to help grow both her winery and the entire region of Barolo. Growing up in Barolo, the young Kiara studied economics, before her family purchased a winery at Pira Evigli in propelling her into a different role as a winemaker, becoming the only female endologist working in Barolo through her considerable determination and charm and confidence She's risen the profile of the entire region. She was the only woman in the legendary barolo boys, and her philosophy is to craft wines that marry the extraordinary power of barolo and with approach ability. Kara is a friend of mine, and I am so excited that I get to talk with her today about what's going on in her winery. She's had her brother, Georgio, joined her in twenty ten, and they were Moscone, a very important vineyard. And then her Georgia's daughter, Beatrice. He's now joined the winery. Oh, sorry. I have to speak English. Thank you so much for for for choosing to talk to me. And, it's already a great pleasure. Thank you so much. Your words are very nice. So very touching. Thank you. We feel honored to have you come and talk, with us and tell us all about your whining. How how are you and how is the winery today and how are the grapes doing in this harvest? Oh, at this point, we are really, you know, July. It's the hottest bounce here, and we are literally the the heat is exploded. And, but, that's took a great acceleration for the maturation, which really good look great. We will be anticipate for sure the the grape look fantastic. So we had some rain, also, in the during the spring and a little bit, along the way until now. So, I really have to say that, we are going very well, very well. Good. Very good. Well, we wanna hear your story about, you know, everything you've gone through and hear your knowledge. So I'm gonna ask you a few questions. And I want you to tell us about growing up in the family winery because you are from Barolo. Yes. Yes. You know, I come from a family that, own a very old winery in the in the village, but, you know, so that in the past, women were not supposed to take over wineries because the the girls normally were getting married and abandoned the family. And so this is something that, I changed because I grew up in a, when I when I was growing up, I feel really the importance of cheese of the, or, you know, getting a sort of war to to get my space to to try to, to realize my dream and my thing, and my dreams was, was really to, to do the same work that my that my parents were doing because, you know, being, growing up, in a in a winery, like, always, happen. The kids are involved in, in the work, you know, maybe for it with small thing, but so maybe the harvest or something else. But, that was enough, to give me this bucolic idea of the work, and also the fact that my parents had so much passion, about it, really, really drive me into this, this, in the in this path. And of course, growing up, you know, I went through the feminist, phase this moment. So I really wanted to do all what the boys were doing. So I I really fight for for for being for becoming a winemaker and, and the farmer really fight a lot. Yeah. And your determination shows as well, through your wines Did you do go to university for winemaking? Or was it learn did you learn it from a mentor? Yeah. Exactly. You know, in the past, as I was telling you that the girls had to do certain things. You know? So, my parents asked me to, to study like, economics, you know, girls would do the the bookkeeping, all these things Actually, the girls are very good also in doing, I don't know the marketing and everything. But, I really wanted to to be a white maker. So I learned, of course, from my family, and then a lot from my friend. I have to say that I I had to to learn by throwing myself into the work. So it's always It's always like that. At a certain moment, you have to take your life and your things within into your hand and go for it. You will learn on the way. So I'm I'm I'm not the way and I'm not I didn't study analogy. And these always make me, feel like, yeah, you know, I'm missing something, but, I compensate with, a lot of work and a lot of passion. So Mhmm. There must have been some people who, showed you winemaking or or acted as a, a mentor to you. Oh, yes. Of course. You know, that, when I start into the wine world, I was lucky enough that this, sort of revolution was just becoming the Barolla boys, revolution. So I had the the great pleasure and honor to to share the way with some of the, of of some of gray, greatest winemaker of the area. And so we, we had a group of friend who who are working together sharing experience, which was kind of, unique because in the past, everybody were doing just their own business. On the country, we went to together as changing ideas, experimenting a lot. We were, the most exciting thing is that everybody was doing it some experiment and, sharing this, the result with the other. So it was like, making more than one harvest, every year. And so I had, and of course, I had great friend. I, you know, for example, Georgia Rivte, he really teach me literally how to do the the work, you know, in the cell. And when I had something, some problem, I was calling him. I was calling domenico Clari because, you know, all, all my friends were very, very nice to me. They never really treat me like, like if I was not part of the group. That's what's, means a lot to me. You were central to the group. You were the one they all revolved around Tiara. I'm sure. I'm sure. So, you know, you're talking about for for people who may not know the barolo boys, a legendary group of growers, in barolo. Correct me if I'm wrong through the eighties and nineties. And, who worked together to swap ideas, but also went to the USA to promote the wines together as a collective. Is that right? Yes. First, I think that, Well, we were a group of friend. So, and, we did a lot of, discussion, because we wanted to we realized that we still had we we had a lot of potential because the barolo was not, well known back then. And we really, really believed in the potential of this wine, and, we really wanted to present to the world, this one. But we also realized that, in the past, was interpreted, in a two rustical way. So we try to give, more elegance and finesse, to this wine. But con and in the same time, what we wanted to do was, to because we are farmer to get more respect for the work that we, that we were doing. So what we realized is that we wanted to become cool farmer, you know. And so to be like a special artisan, on that create, not only a good product. We wanted to create, something special, something almost artistic, you know. So we work harder on this direction. We realize that because we are farmer, we could put even more effort in working even better in the in the field. So, lowering the crop, for example, a lot. And then, in the cellar, refining very much the way of, of working. So, a clean environment, clean barrel, I think that, our best idea anyway was to focus on the terroir and, and so show the differences from one village to another And at the second moment, what we had, in our hand, this, quality wine where we were, of course, proud of it. We realized that we had to show to share this this wine and this experience with the rest of the world. So the first important trip was really in the in United States because we met Mark de graz. He was, a half Italian African. They're enthusiastic, wine, wine, wine nerd, you know. So he he helped us. To find a way to find, not only customers. We really find support. People that, still today, they'd be really, fighting, like, in a mission to make the well known. You know? That Yeah. Well, it's, and the wines keep getting better and better as well. What you brought into that, the seller management in Barolo has, completely, revolutionized the region. But when you went through the vineyards and started dropping all of that green fruit, what what was the older generation saying to you? It was a great shock for for the the older person because You have to consider that uh-uh the ju simply degeneration on my parents. They've been, going they were, parliamenting the the the starvation of the of the of the war period. You know? So in one generation, from my parents, to me, there is a huge jump, in study, for example, because I I was able to go to the university. My parents did only the elementary school. So they gave us more tools, of course, to learn. And, and that's why we thought about all step by step, which was the direction to increase the the quality of the wine and increase also, our position because before, to be farmer, was really considered very badly, you know. And, so so the people seeing, as a throwing away wasting all these wonderful fruit fruit. They were shocked. Like they were shocked when they saw us changing barrels. They were shocked even seeing us going around the world to present the wine. They were thinking that we were going on holiday. And, or maybe even what we thought was that, because our wines are wines for food. We realized that it was important to make the people appreciated the combination of our local food with our wine. And again, so the people thought, oh, these guys are just party guys. So there were many aspects of what we were doing that was completely different from the past. Because the past was, was different. They had, you know, more more poverty. There were there were no money. They even didn't dare to open a bottle of Barolo, you know, because it was the expensive wine. The Barolo was the wine to sell to make the economy of the family. And, so we started the open bottle because we realized that the people had to try the wine, you know. And, so so the people, the older generation was, a little shocked. Yeah. I'm sure. But in terms of the Viticulture, you've been organic your vineyards since twenty fourteen vintage. Is that right? No. I was always organic because, you know, this is something that I really learned from my father. That, he really loved a lot, the vineyards, and he refused to give, to give, some chemical, you know, especially in the sixties, all of a sudden, it seems that, the, the, the, molecule, synthetic molecule, could solve the problems, all the problems. So people were coming knocking at the door of the farmers, say, oh, you know, there is this medicine that get into the system of the plant and make it So you don't need it to do the treatment, because, you know, but because of that thing, the the fact that the remain those synthetic molecular remain in circulation, that is the negative things as well. Because we cannot get rid of it and it's polluting, you know. And, and you eat and or drink this, this molecule. So it's not good. And so my father never never really liked it. And, he's funny because those, salesperson were, making fun of him, saying that, he was, a a Jurassic sore. So but, I realized that, I always told him. I said, you're not be behind. You are in front because I really, learn how is was important to be, to be clean, to be organic. I never really believe like my father in all those, lies that the the industry, the chemical industry were were saying. You know? And, and in fact, my my father was always, you know, he was asking, for example, to these people, he was says asking How can something that, for example, kill a bug or kill the grass be good for me even if I am a bigger animal? But, you know, and, these people will say, no, but these are selected, poison or things like that. So can you have you ever seen a selected a selected poison? No. No. No. It kills Southern. It kills lots of lots of things. But when you're growing organic, obviously the people around you need to be, you know, growing organic or not using those chemicals as well. So not just your own vineyard being organic. You've been working really hard at getting the entire Canoebe hill. Yes. Organic. Is that right? Yes. So how's that going? I like, I was telling you before in, in two thousand ten, anyway, I decided to ask the certification. Why? I was organic before, but I realized that it was important to start to talk about organic in a very serious way and to show on the label, you know, the symbol, to make the difference. And, so two thousand ten. I asked the certification two thousand fourteen was the first year of, that I could, go out with the label, of organic, and was also difficult to but I managed to go through the vintage very, very well. The the wine was, was great. And, I I really com get convinced that, was really possible for everybody to become organic. And as you pointed out, if you are organic, but your neighbors are not, you have a problem. Right? And, of course, you can you have one solution is to create a sort of buffer zone, a ball of respect. So the great that come from maybe one, two, or three row has to be sacrificed. You don't you cannot use them for your wine because, when, the analogy on the wine is made, that the tolerance, is a zero for chemical. And but there is another possibility which is the possibility to which is the way to convince your your neighbor. And even if it seems, weird because, in this society, there is more habit to suit the the the neighbor instead of making friendship, which is exactly the opposite like it was in the past. In fact, I've always been remembering My father was teaching me always telling me your neighbor has to be your best friend because they are those one that are so near to you when you need the help and they can come and support you. So I always keep that in mind because in the past that the people were really helping each other a lot. They were even there was no TV. So they were even going to each other's table in the evening to play cards to talk, to sing, and, I mean, to spend the evening. And, so there was a good relation. Today, people went and go on court and it's crazy. Like, like, even in it happened. You know? Just a few years ago, people went to court for the name for many reason. And I thought it was, time to change, to have a positive thinking And, that's why I had this idea that, really like a little lamp that comes up in my brain. And, I said, wow, that would be fantastic if I could convince everybody. And I have to say that, the fact that I always behave well with my neighbors and with the people really helped me a lot. And today, the project of the Canopy bill is, it's really at a good point. Good. Good. You must be getting very close and at least having most of the hill working organically and just one person who, or or a couple who maybe, are working on the edges. It's an amazing achievement to have the entire of what I consider to be the greatest wine hill on the planet. I am an Italian wine lover, but I think Kanubie is, one of the greatest hills to grow grapes, anywhere in the anywhere in the world. So instead of you de instead of using, insecticides and pesticides and herbicides, you grow cover cover crops between your rows. Don't you? Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available from mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guy to Italian wine, Sanjay Lambrusco, and other stories, and much much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. Oh, the technique that we are using today are multiple. So like you said correctly, the first thing is to have the environment that is healthy. And that's the contribution, important contribution is, of course, to see that the cover crop. So because, we have, the monoculture, and we have, only vines. We have to create this, var varietal, by feeding different flowers and different herbs. And this is very important because, we can attract, different kind of bugs. For this reason, I also put, in the middle of the vineyard, like, the hotels for for birds or hotels for insects, insect house. So This, help to maintain the diversity. We have more bugs, but more birds who eat, or even the bat, for example, are very, very useful. But not only that. We have, many system that, for example, now we tend to use a lot of living thing that, can support us. For example, we use bacteria. We use yeast. We use, seaweed. We use, extract. We use micro rinse. So there are many, many natural product that are very effective. It's I always make the comparison with the, the health of the person, you know. So what we try today is to work on strengthen the natural defense of the plant. Exactly like the medicine does with us as a human being. So instead of curing, it's much more effect active to strengthen the natural defense. And, for this reason, with the fascination, with, with, I don't know, a healthy life, and things like that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And with the world getting warmer, things must be changing in barolo as well, from when you started growing nebbiolo and Barbaro? Yes. So that is the big problem. And that was also the reason why many have decided to go for the certification organic because I thought it was important to start the the debate that was important to start to, to push the people to reflect on this, on this aspect. It's too important. We are, as a human, not really, militarily destroying the environment and the world that is giving us the support and is the uh-uh the the most crazy thing. No other animals do do like that. No other animals destroyed the environment where they live in. So this is something really crazy, but, but, unfortunately, as a human, we do that. Mhmm. We do that. It's true. Yeah. Unfortunately, Yeah. And then take Okay. Can we have I think we have a I think we have a scoop now. So you've been planting some new grapes. Is that right? Yes. Oh, just the one thing about the the the last question. Of course, from the technical point of view, we put, in action, several, several, several activity. So for example, in parallel, I put all the net, the most dispose the vineyard. I have net, that, can cover, can create a shadow and help, the divine, and also protect from hail. Also the managing of the of the canopy. For example, not at all any cut anymore. The idea is to create a sort of big umbrella, big hat, to protect the vines and so on. Then we work all the work of the cleaning or the vines are done on the backside in order to not to take any leaves on the front. So there are many thing. And ultimate, because last year, we were in a short of, shortage of, of water. We started to think about, how, have eventually in the future, even, a drop system to for survival for survival. Because if he keeps on going like that, we have to start thinking about that, how to spare the water, how to eventually give some water to the plant, whatever. Is we are not yet at this point, but we are, of course, you needed to talk about it. Yeah. So that's sorry for for writing this. No. Not at all. And the last the last couple of years have been very hot in Barolo. Haven't they? Yep. That That came off two wonderful years though, nineteen, and twenty as well. The twenty the twenty nineteen barollos have just arrived in Australia. I'm excited to try them. Yes, great vintage, of course, but it's true. This, I mean, warmer weather up to a certain level is good because, we had in this last year fantastic vintage, of course. And, we don't have the pressure of the media, very much reduced, you know, so there are some positive aspect, but it's also true that keep on going in this direction. We will have a change also an extremization of the weather. So for example, no rain for a few months, like last year, four months, no rain, and then a huge bomb of water or hail. So This is not good as well at all. It's the extremes. Yeah. It's the stream is too too hard. But, yes, two thousand nineteen is the new vintage on the market now. It's gorgeous. And we just finished bottle today, with the moon of July, the the battle of two thousand twenty. And the initiative that you were talking about is something new, something fun because, you know, many customer and friend were always teasing, you know, saying, hey, come on. You never you never think about doing it white or whatever. And I thought, well, Why not? Why not with the global warming. It's nice to have a fresh bottle of the refrigerator. It's local. It's really fun. It's a fun wine. Yeah. Absolutely. So when will this initiative be ready for bottling? Well, this year will be the first year of production. Okay. So we still have some, sometimes. And where where is the vineyard located? Is it in, Barolo Langay? Is it important that, you know, that, Natchetta originally comes from Novelo. But, it's possible to to to plant is, needed, you know. And, in these last years, actually became more popular. It was forgotten for so long. But, And I have a vineyard in Montforte Alba that I was, a piece of land that I was able to purchase from, recently, from, an, an, causing a cousin of mine. And so I thought, well, why not? Before I didn't really had the opportunity, but with a new piece of land, I said, why not? It's a very small quantity. We'll be probably more used for personal drinking and fresh, and, but, we see. I've got Always changing Kiara. So, you you really are have forged a pathway for, female winemakers around the world. Do you think there's some things that women are better at with winemaking? Or growing grapes? You know what? I've been fighting all my my life to have the equal right to be considered the same. So to be honest, I think we are the same. Oh, it's true that we have different between men, especially from the physical point of view. Of course. But, but, no, I I think it's a matter of individual. You know, so some people has some talent. Other people has other talents, but, no. I think, we are we we are equal. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But your your wines show your personality, I believe. They're vibrant. They're, they're they've got power and they've got passion, but they also have elegance as well. Is that a style that you've worked towards, or it's just, come naturally? Maybe when you say what he's I mean, when you say the difference between men and women, I wouldn't say that the women are better at, but I think that I've always had this, sensibility, sensitivity, not I'm I always sends it in. Always been very careful for the elegance because, more than, you know, the the power, the whatever. I like the balance, the finesse, I really like, when everything is in balance, and I like wine that has a strong personality that are long, but, that are kind. So Mhmm. That's always been what and I'm lucky because I had in my hand, the vineyard that has that is the the queen of the elegance, you know, Kanubi has always been fame was because of this finesse and elegance. And I realized, how different can be one, area to another because when back then with the parole of boys, we were, trying the wine of each area I was amazed at how different, there was from one area to another. And now that I have the possibility to to winify, Moscone can be very bold. You know? So for me, the mission was, to really, drive this line, that has a great, you know, body into, into the direction of, of elegance, as well. Yes. And they do they do have their own personality, Canoebe, and Moscone, but they have your star behind them. You also, return to more traditional barolo and have a blend of different vineyards in Vienna over. Is that right? Yes. Yes. You know, when, my brother joined me in two thousand ten, we had the possibility to buy more vineyards. And, now, we have nine different which is a lot. So the idea, you know, I have always been fanatic about the terroir by showing the differences, but, also to have nine super small quantity, of different barolo. It's, it's problematic to manage. And so I thought that, the idea to show the two completely different Ghani would be very intriguing. But the solution, the traditional solution, the classic, concept of those assemblage is fantastic. And I thought it was time with the arrival of my brother to close also a circle, we say in Italian, close the circle when things, goes, goes back home, you know, and to pay a homage to the heritage of my family. So the assemblage is press this, this, incredible and, fantastic tradition. So all three barolo has completely different, personality and, different character. But this come, of course. Like you said, I tried to, to be gentle, to be very kind to this wine, but essentially they express the area where they come from. Yeah. Yeah. And you've you you're able to show that through, some deaf touches with the winemaking as well. You're you don't use as much oak as, as you're used to new oak, I should say. Is that one? Yes. Well, I have to say that the verification of the Trevarado is done on purpose in the same way. Because, you know, to in order to show the difference of the war, you have to do the same thing for all the the the wine. Otherwise, if you change something, for example, if you do all bunch, full bunch, whatever, or I don't know what, you change the character. So the administration is the same. But about the the use of the of the wood, and the aging in wood, I always says that, for me, it's a little bit like, you know, something that has to be tailor made is, like, the the dress that you put on when you go out, with your wife. Now, you know, you wanna look good. So I realized by tasting when I was doing still the same, you know, half big barrel, half Barrick. I realized that, certain vineyards, need more microdegeneration. And so this perfect in smaller barrel, someone else don't. So they go in bigger barrel. And of course, the new wood today, is very, very small quantity. It's true that, in the past, we had to change all the barrel because the barrel in the cellar were super old. And so at the beginning, the impact, of course, we had a lot of, New York before necessity. And the impact was a little bit violent Of course because the wine sometime had this okay tone, but today you don't find it anymore. So now we have, barrels that, are we, you know, that are in the cellar since many, many years. And, we are able also to clean them very well compared to the past, you know, in the past. People didn't had water in the cellar. So they were had difficulties even to wash the bowel. Today, we have technique, technique that we spare. We use very, very little water, and we have and we maximize the effect by, you know, with the pressure. And, so we have barrels that are always, perfectly clean and efficient. And that shows in the wines as well. The precision of fruit and the the the beautiful treatment with the oak framing. There is definitely, it shows the care has happened in the cellar and also in the in the vineyard as well. You've actually got your niece, Yitriece, who's come in to start working with you recently. She's just graduated from an anology degree. Yes. Yes. My brother has, three girls. That are really fantastic. The oldest of Beatrice is already working, in the winery. She, she's anologous. She studied, at the knowledgeable school, and she went to to university. So she has, she's very smart and very passionate. I really can see myself in her and this touch my heart because it's so exciting. For me, it's really it's like She gave me the possibility kind of, take away forty years from my shoulder because she arrived with his energy and, it's really fantastic. I'm so proud, so happy for that. This new generation are amazing. Good. Has she bought some new ideas, into the winery yet, revolutionized some things herself? She still have to learn, of course, but I can see that she's so curious. So we are, trying to gather so many things. Every harvest, we do some experiment. We try, and it's nice. So, It's really exciting. Yes. We we we experiment a lot, really. Every and and this is good because with her energy, it's much easier, you know, because Whatever. Absolutely. So I need to clean all those barrels. Exactly. So all of the idea, now let's try. It's a new idea. Okay. Let's try it. We see. It works. So, you know, it's fantastic. Yeah. Absolutely. Now Nebula always gets all of the limelight over in Barolo, but I think Barbera is one of the world's great grapes as well. Your barbera is, is delicious. Has the warming climate being beneficial to Barbera? It seems to be in a really beautiful spot at the moment, Barbara. Yes. Of course, Barbara is a grape that, is amazing. It's fantastic. I love her, and well. And, of course, the global, the the global war began till now, up to this level are over. I don't know. But, and then now, yes, gave, the possibility to to degrade to express even more. And, too mature perfectly because the Rivera need really a perfect ripening, degree. But Rivera is challenge is very much challenging this period because with this stress given by the weather. Plans are, you know, can become more sensitive to attack, of, of illness and Barbera is in this moment under attack of, a Elium. I can call a Elian Hillness. That is the La Flavisson's Dorre Prabashinsa Dorata. So It's the is yeah. Right. That's the fruit fly? No. No. It's another thing. No. Well, you're talking about the Suzuki. The No. No. No. This is something else. And we have a lot of, unfortunately, with the, yes, the the the world's more open like that, sometime arrives something. So this, Flavicenza Dorata, is feta plasma. So it's a sort of virus, virus bacteria in the middle. Right? But it's more like a virus because there is no cure. And so, it affects the circulation, the vessel of the plant, close the vessel and the and cause the the death of the plant. So it's really the new philosopher. And for this reason, now we are, really very much, challenge on that. We have, a big loss, loss of plans, but I do not give up I keep on replanting as soon as I see the illness, you have to it's very important for us to, to prevent. And so as soon as you see the symptom and this period, where the symptoms are getting clear. I'm going out to check the vineyard, every week. If I see a symptom, you have to take away the plant because if you leave a plant with, that is affected the the carrier bag, bug, there is a one or who who knows more probably, bug that, can get affected while eating from that vine. And can transmit it to another vine. So it's very important not to have a plant that are, hill, you know, because the bag itself, is innocent. He has he don't know. He did what, what he can. Right? And, and for this reason, but it's important for this reason not to to give the the the the opportunity to the bargain to to get, infected. And transmit it. Yeah. So when you remove the vine, do you have to take the roots as well? Is it infected down in the roots or just the trunks? No. No. No. No. No. As soon as you take away the the vegetation is gone. It's done. You don't need it to do it right away. In this moment, we have no time to do that work, but, you have to take away all the leaves. So you don't have to leave any leaves. So that there is no effect that can feed and get in fact it from, from that plant. Yeah. And it's only affecting the barbera? Barbera. No. Many, many, right? For example. Okay. But barbera is particularly sensitive. And probably also because, Barbara is particularly loved by the bug, because it has less tan in, you know, nebbiol, for example, it's maybe it's probably more resistant itself as a plant, but, I'm sure that is also less, loved by the by the bug. And so, we yeah. So but I'll but, yeah, you can have it also in the biolo. The contractor is also insensitive or the chardonnay was a disaster. Right? The people that play the chardonnay. Now, goodbye. Yeah. That's true. But you're not just, in wine. So, you've you have a cheese up in the Alpine Hills, Castel Manuel. Is that right? Oh, yes. This is, a project that is very near my heart. Of course. Well, I love animals in general. You know, I love my bees. I love my chicken, everything. But, I can say that, I I have also Cow. So we have, we are a group friend. Some are part also of the the the barolo boys, wine or he's, but especially us that are agriculture, you know, yeah, to the But a friend, Fabio Fentino. Is that right? He's a part of it. It's more than him. It's the Claudio. That is the cousin that look after the vineyards and Yeah. Lisa, who Yes. Who, has been as a young woman, managing, helping us, managing, the project. She when she got waited, she got waiting, with the teases on this project. She fall in love with it. And so we're involved. They say, okay. Go. Go ahead and manage. But, now we are kind of organized. So at the beginning, we were doing everything ourselves. So, for example, all the cleaning, we were, we're camouflaged, like, okay. Let's do the party of the cutting the grass. Which was, of course, not a party, but was really cutting the grass. And but today, we have a more, we we were really able to start a project that like in our intention would bring, some, hope and, also option of work in the mountains. So we have people employee. Now, that look after the cow, look after the production. So it's, look after the the rooms. We have, some pre very pretty chalet up there. Oh, Beautiful. I'll have to come and visit. Can can you just can you describe the cheese, peep for people who don't know Castemmanuel? Yes. The cheese is one of the most important Italian cheese. We call, like, like, for the barolo for the wine, the Castel manu for the cheese. It's, a a very, it's a cheese of, hard pasta. You know? It's not soft. It's like, for example, the the parmigiana, let's say, you know. Really? But is age in a grotto, in natural grotto with high humidity for at least, one year. And, we sell it to so, one years later, the production, and it stays one year in this grotto. We always clean, turn it up and down, and, let it mature. Inside this, inside the cheese will be created a natural vein of green. So it's not like the gorgonzola that they put inside, you know, the the These are naturally created like that. It's amazing. So it's very tasty. Very good. In fact, it's really, also very much used for for food, for cooking. You probably have, already, have heard about the New York Capital Manos, so they're they are very, very good. And the the there is also a unique way of producing it linked to the cultural, story of the mountain because the man the people wearing the mountain for for years, for, all the years. And in, in in winter, maybe with the cow, in order not to waste the the cheese, they would remix the cheese for of three days. So this very particular unique way of production makes this cheese absolutely unique. And I'm sure it goes perfectly with Barolo, from Canoebe maybe. Yeah. Of course. Of course. Well, Kiara, I just wanna say thank you so much for coming and chatting on the podcast tonight. It's been an absolute honor and pleasure to chat with you. You know, I love you. And, you have been a great friend for a very many years. And, I feel very privileged that you were able to come on and talk about your wines and your story and what's happening in Barolo. And especially on Canoebe Hills. So thank you. Matt, thank you. Thank you, Matt, very much for for this wonderful talks. Thank you, Stev. Thank you, all of you guys that spend, some of your time, to listen to these stories. Good afternoon. Oh my goodness. I did not want this to end. It just it the hour just flew by. Unfortunately, we had to come to a close but maybe we can get you back here sometime because I have about one thousand questions for you. So we will have to do like caught two or something. I'm just going to thank you so much Kiara and Matt for staying up. Now it's like, how past two your time in the morning. Just don't go to sleep. We could have gone on. I'm going to bring back Leica. Hello? Hi, Stevie. Hey. Do you want to tell us what's what's going to happen next? Sure. So next week, July eighteen, it's gonna be on Tuesday. Anna Gallegos. She's also a master appoint candidate. And she will be interviewing Adriana Workhard of the proprietor of Aridio Interabianca. So that's gonna happen next week. Excellent. Thank you so much. This was a special, anniversary edition indeed. Thank you so much Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ISM, and more. Don't get to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. 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