Ep. 1557 Angelo Secolo Interviews Matteo Catania | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

Since two thousand and seventeen, the Italian wine podcast has exploded. Recently hitting six million listens support us by buying a copy of Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a small donation. In return, we'll give you the chance to nominate a guest and even win lunch with Steve Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. Find out more at Italian One podcast dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. So, hi, Leika, for having me again. Hi, everybody. So it's very simple. I chose, to interview Mateo for two reasons. First of all, everybody who is in the wine business should know about the Guldfinaire, double a wines, which not only my opinion, but accordingly to many, well respected wine expert and professionals. So they are the benchmark for this grape. At goofy, they are producing the highest expression of this grape showing that, any varieties in the right hands can express the important notion of terroir. The second reason of me choosing Mateo for this interview is a little bit more of a personal one. You know, every time I drink goldfish, wine, I'm feeling happy and home again. They bring wonderful memories of my youth and my family holidays, festivities, my birthplace, and the many adventure with my friends. So goofy wine, in a way, if only for a moment, feel that void of a me being, far away from Sicily for so many years. I like it. It's a very memorable wine for you then. How was it when you met him for the first time? I met, Mato in, in verona for the very first time, this year. So I was selected. I was in the Italian wine buyer program, organized by the Italian trade agency in April of this year. So I had to schedule some mandatory appointments. And, as soon as I saw the goofy Wine, I requested on the Vinitally portal, a meeting, and Mateo replied to my email confirming the appointment. So after ten years, I tasted the wine, of Mateo was a superlative feelings, one of the greatest lineup because, you know, in Pennsylvania, unfortunately, Matteo's wines are not available as for now. So, hopefully, we can fix this soon, sooner than later. Yeah. For sure. And I am sure your meeting with Matteo is really was really an emotional thing too because that was really, memorable wine you've had. So what are the learning objectives that we should be expecting from this interview? Yeah. For today, I would love the listener to learn sure the beautiful history of one of the greatest winery of Sicily, learn about a different location where Guofy produce wine, some technical aspect or therapeutic culture and winemaking, learning about the four crew of narrow dabbling in the Pacino area. So understanding the difference of soil topography microclimates and eventually the final one produced. Also learn about the production and the marketing strategies of the vineyard And, maybe learning us some future endeavors, you know, what the wire is doing, and adjusting, keep pace with modern trends. Alright. So I know that you've already mentioned some bits and pieces but I wanted to ask you this question again. How did you discover the wines of goofy wines? So as you know, born and raised in Sicily, I've been drinking wine. And when I was younger, with my family and friends, my career, besides most in the in New York City. It's mainly developed in Pennsylvania in the Pennsylvania market. And as I said before, the groups in wine are not available right now. So again, you know, going April, Dubai, Italy, I met Mateo over there. We tasted all, all the wine that it was showcasing, at the exhibition, at the Dimitalee exhibition, and it was leaving a excellent, great experience and feelings. Madeo also as a great gesture gave me a bottle of the narrow mechanic two thousand and two with line nine for my birthday. Okay. Alright. So for now, I am going to meet myself, and I will leave the floor to you and Mateo. Ciao, everyone. See you later. Thank you. Perfect. A little bit about Mateo, born and raised in North Italy in a small town near Milano. One of three brothers. Mateo's father's veto was from Kiara Monte Guufin, Sicily. And his mom is from Laisona near Monza. And Matteo's family from his father's side has been making wine forever. And when he was young, he would, spend summer vacation in all the days in Sicily together with his grandparents and relatives. Artistic high school, and then graduated in business communication at the Catalica de Milano University. He went to work too long on a first in wine retailer, and then as a sales representative for a master of wine that took him under his wing and taught Mateo everything about wine. Back in Italy, in two thousand and nine, started working for goofy. Finally, it become after a few years, the business and communication directors. In two thousand and seventeen, after his father passed away prematurely, Matteo and his two brothers took control of the entire Adienda goofy with the strenuous support of the old goal team. Rafaela, the oldest brothers, is in charge of the Venus Management, and Matteo is in charge of the commercial logistic, marketing portion. Together with Salvofode, technical supervisor, so who has been close to the Catania family since the beginning. They produce excellent wines, and Mateo is passionate of cycling, free diving, mountains, and mushroom peaking. But mostly, and those are his word, especially of drinking wine, and the pursuit for the promotion of Pakino to DOCJ. So but with no further ado, I want to welcome Mateo to this podcast. How are you? I'm very good. Very privileged, to be here. So thanks. Thanks even to Laika. I don't know if they hear me or if it's in the other side of the room. And, everything is perfect. Thanks, Angelo. Perfect. Perfect. So we're gonna start with, with my questions to you. Okay. So the first question, the goofy manifesto says, Ciamo Terra solo tempo and passione, which is translated to, we are land sun, time, and passion. Every time I read it, I truly believe that this is the most, righteous, and most accurate statement for Viticulture and winemaking. And every time, almost give me some, so I get some good bumps. Matel, tell us, who came up with this beautiful statement, and please elaborate a debt with your own words. Take us into the magical land of Sicily. Well, who has made it. We made it. So, as you said, the study communication, but, you know, you can study whatever you want in life. You have to have the feeling. You have to emotionate, get emotionated. So I, I delivered it myself with, with my father, of course, and, and how to translate it with my words. Let me think. Well, it's simple, actually. So If you think, one needs, few things. Right? Aland, a great reward. The best friend of the grips, I believe that everybody knows it. It's the sun. But then, when you put a violin, it's not for you or when it when you make a wine, it's a it does have to be drunk right now. So the one kid goes into the time. You can do something and then drink it after ten years. Or when you put a wine, it's going to be for the son of this on. So the time, and all these second camarillo and the beautiful and complex in everything we do in life, sir, without the passion. So this is for me. It's, this kind of manifested. Simple, but really connected to what with the soul of what we are. So I hope I explain it in a kind of way. Yep. Perfect. Perfect. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. So, my next question, Guzman State was born in Kiara Monte, a small town in the Play Mountains in Raghusa province. So, Mateo, can you tell us a little bit about the Catania family is, or, you know, from the beginning to modern times? Maybe highlights the most important steps and dates of this regeneration devoted to winemaking. Well, first of all, Angelo, let me say that the my family from my father was not born in Karamonte was born in Guamonte Guolphe. Which is the the entire name of the village. So we get the name goofy after the village name. He's like to say Margot and Chateau Margot. And yes. So the story of the family. It's, it's beautiful. It's a story of, of people that, were looking for something, and they had clear ideas. So I tried to be short. After the second world war, my grandfather, Raffaele Catania, brought all the family from, Cara Monte, we are, in the fifty three. So he brought all the family after, the second world war, in Paris as a, immigrant because at that time as many, many knows that there was no food, or everything was difficult, no rewards, and, and a work. So, my grandfather was, so my grandfather, my family, and my grandfather has been in Paris, from my father from five to nineteen years old. So from the beginning of the fifties, to the seventies, beginning of the sevenies, and my grandfather was working, day and night. So during the day, He was working as, man work on the, when you build a house, you put something to make sure the people doesn't fall down. And those one, like, like in the pictures in New York when they were building the discuss scripts, and those people were, just flying without any kind of cigarettes. We understand. Security construction, like, a ropes and everything else, like, you know, to make sure that the the people, were safe. Right? Yes. Yes. When you when you build up a house, and you have to work on the house, and you work on a high level from the road. And, I don't know what to say in English. Anyway, so It was doing this job, like, like, I was saying in the picture of New York when they were seeing these guys, with the legs, in enough. It was a little dangerous, but, was really well paid. And during the night, he was working for building the metropolitan, of Paris. And the all the money were going back to Cara Montegoffi. For, by, more or less around the native house. And my father did all this school, in Paris. So I was speaking to languages, English, and the sicilian. Then my grandfather went back to Sicily and my father stopped in the north when my grandfather that he was doing wine, but he was a farmer three hundred sixty degrees. So he was doing wine, of course, but even tomatoes, onions, everything. When he died in ninety five, then my father didn't know what to do. Of course, he loved the wine. He loved his native place, but he was in the north at the time. Suddenly, he had, an image. And this image was, trying to make the best, wise possible ever, from our native area. So the southeast corner of Sicily. And he met Salbo forty. Salbo forty is, first of all, he is a great man, about the the knowledge of the unsent with the culture in Sicily. And with Salv forty, my dad had division Salbafati had the culture of the answered and the way to look into the terawatts where we were. And in that time, was born in goofy in the modern times, the times that you drank at Van Italy Angelo. Perfect. Perfect. Excellent. You know, everybody knows Salbo Ford, you know, on a on the Aetna scenario. But I guess, his knowledge and expertise goes all over all over Sicily, thanks to Solomon, thanks to you. So, perfect. So moving along on the next question. The Gucci wines have the same label, for each and every one of, the one you produce. Mateo, Can you tell us a little bit about the Greek legend behind this behind this label, and tell us especially unique affection for it, you know, just, you know, choosing it to put it in a each and every one of your bottles, that's probably like, you are in love with this Greek legend. Oh, well, congrats, for the question. So, well, you're right. Almost all the labels, I say, almost because then I'll tell you, they're all the same in terms of layout. So we have the lowest part of the label that is showing an artistic representation of the vineyard, where that wine is made because we can say that we we make almost single vineyard wines with all, the labels. And, and then the highest part, you see in this this log or this image that, is, the representation, a real one, of a mosaic. And this mosaic is inside an, a Roman villa in Sicily. And the name of the villa is, Villa Casale. And it's the biggest surface worldwide of mosaic. So, among these thousands of mosaics that you can find and see. I don't know if you've ever been, there. You find this, this image, and it is representing the mythological story of eros, sick of psyche. I don't know how to say it in English. And, why do you simply, why we use it? Because, we see in ourself like eros, and we love our secret psyche. And from this love, was born a pure pleasure. The goofy wise. So that's, the reason that we put this, image. You know, Sisley, it's a kind of, but you know, it's, uncontenatory of cultures So everybody inquired sisling. Almost everybody, and everybody left something here. And this complexity, it reflects in everything that we do, and we have in sisley. Yes. I agree about everybody conquering us because of our position, and then leaving each and every one of them, a marker that is still today present, a beautiful, beautiful legend. Perfect. So three estates situated in three key areas of sicilies or your land in Victoria, Pacino, and Mount Aetna. So, basically, mateo, you honed land in the best possible sites for sicilian with the cultures. Can you tell us, about these three properties, the outstanding wine you produce in each of them? Of course. So, first of all, thanks for believing that these are, am of the the most important and the beautiful area for, producing, when in Sicily. Well, I I wish to to have free estates, but I have only one state, and it's enough at the moment. But we have vineyards, in three different location. So the winery is in Caramonte Gufi where the family was born. And in Pakino, we have the vineyards of the cruise. And on Aetna, we have a a vineyard where we make anetna also and, an extraterrestrial. How do you say extraterrestrial? An extra terrestrial? Oh, okay. Yeah. Like an alien or something. An an alien. We have an alien. So this alien is a pin on war. And this alien being an alien and not connected with our land, he has a different, label. So I I linked with the previous question for just for seeing that all the wines have the same label apart this wine, this pin on water, and it's made on Aetna along that narrow zone. So three different, wine region, three different altitudes, we can see that the the Aetna Viner is, more or less between seven hundred and fifty, eight hundred and twenty, eight hundred and forty meters above the sea level. And then we have, a volcanic, soil completely volcanic. So it's a black powder. If you speak if I speak too much, stop me, Angelo. On Karamonte goofy, we are, around four hundred and fifty meters above the sea level. And here, the soil is usually different. We have, difficult mix to find, which is a calcaris, fossil and, time, and, yeah, I'm sorry. I do say Argyla Clay, and the time by times, some iron infiltration. And then we go to an average. So, Pakino, to an average of thirty meters above the sea level. And here in this small micro area, really small micro area. You have all the soil of c three, presentee present in Pakino. Why? Because Pakino, it's, the tectonic plaques. So the conjunction between the African content, continent and the European continent, and because of this, the layers melts up like a cake. And that's the reason why probably is the place worldwide with the most higher, different of soil in such a short area. Last but not least, the south is part of Sicily. It's the the native area of, narrow double a grape. Great. You know, so, yes, we understand, you know, the the diversity on soil, seeing a, you know, such a short distance from one, one place to another. So, and now I do have a technical question for you. My tell, can you tell us a little bit about your Viticulture and winemaking philosophy and, maybe, explain some in more details or some techniques that you, that you guys are using in the vineyards and in the cellar? It's a secret. I'm I'm just joking. I I I hear you so serious. So, yeah, of course. So it's simple, You know, it's really simple. We have to try to make the most drinkable and wine, and the wine that you never get the board in drinking it. And, the vision is really simple. But I believe you agree you agree with me that the the most simple things, they are always the most complicated to achieve. So You have to be we are organic, but it doesn't mean anything. You can be organic. You can be biodynamic. You can be traditional. You have to make a good wine. And a good wines, in terms in a balance, result, So what we always try to do is find the balance into the, you know, into the grip, into the wine, and in everything we do. So, I always says that a food with balance goes down easily. So you can eat it easily even if you're full. When people are more balanced, they can fight in a better way the difficulties of life because everybody has troubles in life. And the same as the one, a one with ballast can be drank more easily and with more pleasure. And, on top of that, if the grip is greater, it can age beautifully. So, our our mission is looking and hearing few people now in life, especially with the with the new technologies, are they are not used to watch the nature, listen to the nature and try to understand what to do into the vineyards. Everybody thinks that he's able to pruning a few people for a few producer are very good in pruning. Because our memory is really short. We live only hundred years if we are, if you are lucky, but the the video culture has more than two thousand years of history. So we need knowledge and culture in order to make something unique. Perfect. Yes. I agree with you. I mean, the technology is definitely helping us to understand the more on the genetic part of the grapes and so forth, but I do believe that making wine is should be a complete, experience between the winemaker and the, and the, and measure. And, any, any thoughts on a specific techniques that you guys are using, in the meaners, you know, like, some sort of a pruning, or, vine trainings that you wanna share with us? Yes. Of course, with pleasure. And, well, in terms of, vine. How do you call it Vine, Vine system? We have the two ways. We use, eighth, and we use bush warrants, So it depends on where we are, and depends on what we are doing. So even in this case, Abalas, they are they are different kind of training. But they are both powerful, as long as you know, how to work on them. For example, I can tell you technically that we don't have a single system. So we have Ails, but we don't have, then you can translate it because I don't know how to say English, or or or every every single vine into the vineyard is traded in a single way. So you can have, in the same venue, a three different kind of systems, sir, still making the same kind of label because we don't we don't want to be. We need human bean has to be flexible, I have to listen. So each vine has a different needs pruning pruning is fundamental. Everybody does, short pruning. Okay? But it's technically well, I'm trying to be general. Technically, it's not correct always. Most of the time, it's not correct. Because if you prune it too short, the limpha, how do you say limpha in English, Angelo? I'm I'm not sure. The nutrition, the nutrition of the vine, because when you cut them, there is a a kind a kind of dry, the wood that gets inside. So if you cut too short, this dry wood that gets inside is gonna touch the the the the food that is going, in the trunks. And the slowest, lowy, year after year is gonna die before. So if you cut a little bit higher, then this dry wood is gonna take what you have cut. The ear after you go short. Wine to wine business forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine. Supersize your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point wine dot net. And so the vine can age much more because we make buying for aging, not for mass production, not for twenty year using, using pumping, pumping, pumping, and putting water and making lots of wine, maybe making money for for sure. But this is not our philosophy. So, we go with the time of the natural. Perfect. I like it. It's like, it's the same concept of managing people. You know, a good manager is always the one that, adjust the is a behavior to the people that he has to manage. And you basically are telling us that you're doing the same thing with vines, you know, treating them differently. Accordingly on, on their needs. Right? Yes. I'm gonna use it this kind of example. I like it. Like, with, like, with the people. Yes. Everybody needs a different kind of, way. This is the reason why now in schools, they're trying to think about probably not to make something. Everything, the same for all the the guys that goes to school, but try to understand each single guy because we are so complex and so different and so pure and we need to be preserved. Yep. And now, so I have a follow-up question kind of, you know, to try to understand that you guys doing the same thing in the seller during the fermentation process, at this point, you know, treating a, each plot and each, you know, wine, grapes differently? Well, you can know fermentation. Yes. Of course, we are in the office right now. But, of course, each grape has a different needs, that that's normal. No. So a kind of maturation. But when it it comes in terms of, fermentation, on the kind of a verification. It it might change, you know, if it's gonna be a crew or if it's gonna be an inox, this staying still, but, wine. That's for sure. But more or less, the way we work is the same. For example, the vata where we do the the verification, We made it, in the with the Enox, inox once. And, to let you understand, the high is the same of the, the largest or and you said of the The height, the height, and the wind are the same. Are the same. Why? Because, if you feel think about the skin of the grapes, if it's, taller and shorter, you have a big cap. Okay. In order to move it, you have to stress the wire much more with pumps or with the racket or whatever you want. If the cap is much thinner, you can do something softly. So we believe that even in this way, we have to be gentle with the with the wide. That's very interesting. Yeah. Thanks for sharing this with us, mateo. So, and moving to my next question. And so when I say goofy, I mean, Nero Dabbana, right? Right? I just, I can't stress it enough, the safe, goofy's benchmark for, and the leading producer from this grape. And, you guys have mastered four specific terawatts in the Pacino area, right, for you guys on four single vineyards, the Macari, Barroni, Salorenzo, and, that they are producing, for different wines. Can you, can you tell us a little bit? I know it might be a complex, question about a little bit differences in, in soils, in terawatts, in in micro climates, and eventually my maybe some slight differences in the four wines. Okay. So, first of all, I want that, all the people, this is a huge opportunity for me. Knows that the, I'm gonna use a French, way because French people are really clear on when business. While they are French. Almost nobody, almost I said nobody knows where is the grand cru area of for saying it as the French people. So we can say the of Nero Davala. The or we can use the Italian some Italian region, the barolo area of Nero Davala because this is the most important thing. And and and that's important. So it's pacino. So pacino can be must be known can be must be considered as the grand cru concept area of So first of all, I don't sell I sell then the first of all, you drink barolo, then the, the at the end, it's in all. Cisley. I said it could be, you know, whatever we want. So, but what make the difference, and what probably you are making this interview because of the you're feeling with the wines. It's because you were drinking a pacino wine. And the pacino, as I was saying, it's in the middle of two seas, over being under the tonic plaques So there is lots of stream. We are really low. And what's the big difference between these guys? These four guys, it's simple. It's only the soil because Partin is pretty flat. The distance between, all the four cruisers. So it's more or less a radius of three kilometers. So almost nothing. But if three kilometers, it changed the world. So for example, starting from the most inland and vineyard, baroni. Baroni, it's all about limestone. So I describe it as a teenager because when you're a teenager, you think that you are, the most beautiful, powerful, everything, not the most the most of the most of the most. But at the end, you are really simple to be read by enabled. And baron is like this because the limestone brings out the body the power by so balanced, so easy to be understood and drank and drink it that I described it in this way. If you just, across the road, hundred meters forward, you have a buffalo crew. Buffaloft is a mix of everything. You and and and the vinegar change color into the legs. So it starts white then brown then red then white again. You have volcanic soil in the in in the sample of, of the sauce when we made it. And probably it was an ancient volcano. And I I describe it as of yellow iron because all this complexity of sauce Torsey, you have the feeling that you can almost bite the flesh of the of the wine. But it's so powerful, so elegant, so surrounds, so soft. That's a beautiful left for me, Sofia Lauren. Then if we we go towards the sea, we we found before before, before, in the middle, we have, Macri. Macri, it's more about, blackly aerosol composition and gravel. So for me, it's the most wild, the wild guy because it turns up, even when it age with this kind of, also leather flavors, yes, this kind of distinctive, feeling of the nose of blood. I don't know what to say in English. I would say Italian Ematic or maybe Ematic. I don't know if it doesn't exist in English. So blood, blood the flavors, you know, and it it's this kind of black fluid, is completely different. And then just next to the sea, less than seven hundred meters by the sea on acendi and the red Mediterranean soil composition. We have Salorenzo still completely different. We can say that Salorenzo, for me, is exactly the opposite of, If sal if it's a Sofia Lauren, is a British English gentleman. So it's always well dressed. But not everybody can understand his humor and his way of speaking. It's so complex. It's so elegant. So aristocratic. I would say aristocratic with this kind of seaweed flavor, the saltiness. Yes, I would describe it in this way, Angel, this this cruise. Okay. Great. Perfect. I guess, the only way to to know and eventually buy all four wines and, and drink it next to each other. And, and, put your words, you know, inside the bottle and, taste the taste the wine and enjoy it. Perfect. So my next question, I just would like to understand a little bit of, of the operation of goofy, winery. So, can you tell, mateo, can you tell us how large is, your estate? You know, how many actors you own, overall, your overall production, how many labels, you produce, and, about your top export markets, you know, what is it, maybe, your top export market in Italy and, the one, international. We have, too many actors, And, that's the first first thing because I would say. No. Of course, we have forty hectares planted, the forty dot five planted, a hundred dollar. But they are spread in, in different areas as I was saying. So it's a commitment, what we are doing. My father's, used to used to told me, Mateo, you know, could be much easier by lots of actors next to the winery. So in the Chirasolo, the Victoria, and, and that's it. But, you know, when, when, when he asks, I'll go where I can make the best hundred percent of the double. Salvo told me, Pakino, and Matteo had to go to Pakino. And then, you know, when I was younger, when I was younger, I used to drink, the wines from Benanti. And then, I was passionate about Aetna. And so we went on Aetna. And the first vintage of Aetna is two thousand and four. So, that's when I was seeing patients, some forty actors, but, in in three different area, and they have to move every time in order to to manage everything in the perfect way. So, that's more or less, the passion that moves everything. How many labels to many, Angelo, even in this case, we have twelve labels But, you know, what does it mean? Producing a remember my my experience of my father in in French. He had he had many friends, in burgundy, he had lots of connection with many producers, and the respect and the way of working into the vineyards, came from this culture. So when it started to make the four cruise and the first vintage was two thousand, it was completely mad almost even now, we are still a little bit mad because there was too much forward. And this is beautiful because he had a clear vision. So, still could be simpler making one crew, one single one from Aquino, making a chirazol dvito in the classical one Aetna, and that's the story. But, we want to give something different to the people. We want to offer something unique. We want to bring bring back the complexity, and that's goofy. Great. And, so tell us which one of the twenty regions is the one that buys more wine from you and, which country in the world? One, one, two names. You mean, regions in Italy? Yeah. Oh, well, but but it's simple. It's easily. Okay. It's easily. Okay. There you go. I I wouldn't I wouldn't expect another answer. And what about internationally, which which is the country that buys more wine from you? Well, you know, North America, the North America. It's Canada and US. So, I, you know, in my mind, US, well, Canada probably has a single single state, origin as you want to call it, is Quebec. But for me America is, my key market, because, I mean, I own a trust printer, because American American people, they are not new in one business. They drink wine. And, you know, American people look at the future with, the American people look at the future with the with trust. With, with happiness, European people look at the future, has something easy to bring on. Probably is the history. And then to make a huge difference, sir, because, it means that you're always open to try new things, Yeah. And then and then you have a pilot that is is training them. And that's the reason why for me, you are so important because, when people try goofy, then, let's say ninety percent of the times, they're still buying again. Because everybody likes what, what, what is good. So that's my my believing. Yep. So, basically, you know, to, sum it up, you know, American thinking is more, you know, straightforward and modern, modern, you will be in a more more traditionalist and tends to you know, cherish their history a little bit more, which I like it. But, anyway, so moving, moving forward. So, my next question, I know that the southeastern corner of Sicily can get very hot. During the summer months of June, July and August. So we have the Sherylka wind, that can be a factor and also the rainfall that is scarce. So, Adel, can you give us more precise picture of the climatic condition in, in your area in Victoria, an auto and pacino, and maybe if you guys are adapting any specific countermeasures to make sure that the grapes are preserved, and they reach a perfect balance between acids and sugars? I don't want to disappoint the listeners, but the the the answer is, always the same. And it's really simple. The countermeasure, it's looking and listening, to the vines, to the vineyards. So, and that's why you you're right. It's pretty pretty pretty hot in summertime in C suite. My discussion is really important as well. Even if Angel, Casita, in the last three years, it's getting more challenging than before. Because, because the weather is changing, And, you know, maybe what you taught for a hundred years, not me, but maybe my grandfather than my father and now. Sir, it's not the same as before. Thing is that things can change, really ripping tinnitly. So, for example, in two thousand and one, we had a huge, drought. It was a drought era. So, and, and that we had, three waves of wind, hot to wind the phone. We call it phone, that the dry grips, So, fortunately then, the first, the five or six of September, we had, something like, one hundred and twenty five millimeters of, of water. And then the the the the climate stabilized was a perfectly mite climate, and we had a beautiful perfect maturation. So two thousand and one, beautifully but we lost thirty percent. And, and, you know, at the beginning, if the rent didn't come, we could make a pass, with the OS. So you're always there looking at the For example, in two thousand twenty two, we have the African leafhopper and that, didn't let the ripe, the twenty percent of the grapes. We never had it. So it was coming from Africa. And this is new for us. Like for example, this year. So we had, lots of rain, between, May and June. So we had two hundred and seventy millimeters of water. And, you know, I was not expected in this kind of months because it's not the normal time for, renting it. And so many producer, we were pretty happy, because we listened and, look at the vineyards, had the huge problems with the I think it's, Donny Midwev. And so it's challenging. But the normal, normal temperatures we're giving us water in, winter time, And then you have, June of June, July, August, no water. So this could be you have, September, October, November, which is might, Right. And for example, we do, the pruning in, January and February because of the most coldest amounts in, in our area. Is the most planted grape of Sicily. So it's grown all over with many good terroars, but also less suitable sites where a high bulk production, as affected a little bit of a quality. So, and you as a front runner, we're just a lot. And the Pakino, as you mentioned, that you're you just say that you're selling Pakino wines. And what is the, what is the strategy? What is your approach? What do we have to do, to, you know, bring those people that are still skeptical, about this variety, around, and, make them understand that this is a a really good, grape producing great wines. So I try to be short because we don't have lots of times. I want to see something. Well, I'm selling a, an area, not a grape. So on the labels of goofy, you don't have steel, Pagino. And do you have, for example, Nero Macquarie with the j, Nero, so this is because, the one that is not in the in the province of the vineyards. So from two thousand and twenty, we're gonna have packing on the label, and that is going to be the first things. So, you're gonna drink a pakino wine, and then you're gonna find, and control the baroni. So first of all, in the label has to be clear. Even if people, buy goofy because it's goofy, but we have to reach many people. And then if people will drink a goofy and packino wines, and we're gonna have success people will follow us. And that's, this simple strategy and try to let became Pakino at the EOCG because Pakino by law could be already at the EOCG. Because it's a sub area of a wine bigger area. And, but you have to convince the producer in order to to make this. And the only way it's, with the success of someone else. Look at SASkaya. They make a wine from nothing. Not from nothing from another one area. So now it's one of the most important one area in Italy, Bulgaria. So we have to be we have to believe in the believe in the future. We have to be, always happy and, and and follow our passion. And that's, could be probably the best strategy. And, of course, this kind of interview tried to be present in the market. Try to give the people the right, and nobody thinks it's really important because, with this, they have some information, to work with. Yes. We're awful. Yes. I I agree with you awfully. Hopefully, this interview will expand the, the reach of narrow the line, the pacino, all over the world. And, and it will be it will be coming soon, at the OCG, second UFC for Sicily. And, lastly, are you working on new projects such, you know, starting with new grapes or maybe discovering purchasing, more land somewhere else in maybe the Marcella region? What do you think? I think that we should do things step by step. Let's before, let's, achieve the first mission. This mission is let known, the Gucci wines, the Pakeno wines, the Chielasolo wines, into the world, especially Pakeno, because in Chielazolo D' Vitori, there are other good producer, and it is a UCG operation. And, and then who knows Angel in the future? Maybe a bubble could maybe we can make a bubble on it, sparkling wine, a me to the classical. At the moment, we're really connected there and devoted to fall over and, and promoting what we are doing right now. And then if I have one minute at the end, let me know that, I may say to the to the people, why, it's is not Avila. The town might sparkino. Even if the name of the grape is near Davala, which means near from Avila town. Okay. Okay. Perfect. So you're opening, a future debate for, for the scientists and the historians to understand. Right? Perfect. I, and I thank you very much for your time, and for all those informations. You gave us, mateo has a beautiful, winery in Caramoto golfie as a beautiful Wakanda with a restaurant, you know, the serves, the serves food. So I encourage everyone who wants to go to Sizzle to stop by there and, and see Mateo and see the winery. And, like, thank you very much for having me here. I hope you guys enjoy it. That was great. Thank you so much for a wonderful interview. Actually, there was one from the audience. I think the person left already, but, the person's asking, what is the VIN your name and could you draw up a link? So I shared the website, and then so it's golfie dot I t, and there's also an English version. And, it was really nice. Actually, I was looking through the website while you guys are discussing. Now I'm like, oh, okay. This is the pacino wine. It's amazing. So, yes, thank you. Wonderful. Wonderful interview. Thank you so much for your time, Mato and Angelo. Thank you so much for introducing Mateo to us Angelo. And before I closed the room, I just wanna say that next week, we're going to have two clubhouse. So we've got, he will be interviewing Rafael Boskeini from Massey, and then also that's gonna be on Tuesday. And on Thursday, it's Cynthia Chaplin. She'll be interviewing Antonella and that's and both days are going to be at five thirty PM CT on a regular time show. Thank you so much. And, yeah, have a have a good day. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, chi ching.