Ep. 1627 Robert Maggi Interviews Massimo Pasetti | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

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Today is our one hundred fifteenth episode on of House Ambassador's corner, and I'm so, so, so happy that we have been consistently doing this. It's a pleasure for us to connect our Italian wine ambassadors with their favorite Italian wine producer. And this has been going on, I guess, for gosh. I guess, I don't know, for three years or two years, I really can't recall, but we are happy to keep this show going. It's been one of our favorite shows on Italian White Podcast. So for today, we have Robert Maggie, born and bred in Pulia. He's now settled in cardiff where he's been for the past four years. After graduating into twenty twelve from. Oh, gosh. Abber. I'll help you with this, Jim. Abberistwith. Thank you. I was practicing this, do you know, before? And I was I've I've been keeping I was trying to repeat and repeat this. Now I I don't know. I just can't pronounce it now. Ever is with a university in business and management with Spanish. It was a simple wine course back in twenty thirteen that sparked his passion for wine, and he now hold the ice certification as SMEA. Level three WSTN recently qualified as an Italian wine Ambassador with the Via Academy. He has extensive experience in the sector, including time with the award winning Australian winery Jim Barry wines, as well as dedicating the last five years to the promotion of wines from Puia around the globe. His passion is now his job, and he now runs his own company, wines and wines with a aim to import and distribute wines from Italy in the UK market, focusing on smaller producer and native varieties from Italy. He asked recently founded and organized the second edition of the Card of Wine Festival. So tell me more about the second edition. It was great. We actually had also, Cynthia who I can see just join us. Yes. She came over and it was great to have her over. And, of course, Massimo was there as well. The idea behind the Cardiff wine festival was to actually bring the producers in contact with the consumers, and something that didn't really happen in Cardiff. Everybody always stop in London. So it was nice to actually bring some of the producers out of London and into Wales. It's nice for them to see a new new market, really, new, trends, new places. And likewise, for the consumers then, it was nice, you know, not having to go all the way to London to actually meet some wine producers. It's a one day event, and we welcomed over a thousand guests, a lot of a lot of wine being poured. This year, we had over two hundred and seventy wines. And so far, it's it's a great success. Oh, that's very nice. That's very successful. And when are you thinking of doing the third edition? Fully, we'll be confirming dates very shortly. And the last two editions have been at the last weekend of June. And, of course, what's the website for the Cartifewine Festival? The Cartifewine Festival dot com and then we have a few social media pages as well with Cartify Festival. If not our wines and vines website, there's more information there as well. Okay. So tell us why you selected Masimo Setty as your favorite producer. Yeah. So, Massimo, and and his family's story is it really is extraordinary, passionate winemakers with a great vision, who have, in a way, become pioneers in a brutal when it comes to winemaking, and, you know, what better platform? Other than the Italian wine podcast to share, what Masimo and his family are doing. Okay. Thank you so much for introducing Massimo for the show on Italian wine podcast. Well, what are the learning objectives that we should be expecting from this interview? So today, hopefully, we'll be learning a little bit more about the beautiful region of Abruzzo. It's main native grape varieties, multiple channel, and picadunos, and just name a few. And we'll discover, like I said, the story of the Pazetti family who have, actually dared to plant vineyards in the heart of the Grand Sasso National Park. That's incredible altitude. And how did you discover the wines of Paset Tuini? So I met Massimo through a few years ago, actually, through, another great producer. Marco Cajafa, who hopefully I'll be able to interview him here in the future. And since then, we've had the opportunity to to learn more about Pazetti in general and and their wines. Unfortunately, I'm yet to visit them in in Abruzzo, but I have managed to drag Massimo to cardefweissner. So we must be doing something right. Okay. That's great. That's great. And, yeah, we look forward for the interview with Marco at some point. But today, yes, it's all about Masseda today. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, like it. Okay. So now the fifth generation of the Pasetti family today I have the great pleasure to introduce you to Massimo, who together with his sister, Francesca Carakele, and brother David, now Ron Pazetteilini, always under the careful watch of father Mimi. A real family affair, like many wineries in Italy, Pazette Vigna is one of the leading wineries in Abrotta, in the whole of Italy, I'd like to say, associated with quality winemaking, working with the main native varieties of the region, and with all their vineyards within the Grand Saso National Park. How, Massimo? Welcome. How are you? Hello, Robert. At all. Hello, Leika. And hello to everyone. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure being here to introduce my family and my winery. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to have you the opportunity up with you on the Italian podcast, and and I'm sure our listeners will will also find your story very interesting. I feel like every time we meet, I always learn something new about you and your wines, whether it's it's something new to do with the branding or the style of the wines are always innovated, always working on something new and new projects, carefully looking at trends. And correct me if I'm wrong, it's always not easy to do when when you're running, a well established and quite big winery as well. Yes. We are a family business, and, we learn by our experience. So we had a lot of tradition, very, long, way in the future. So we are working to give the maximum that we can. It's a very hard work because the vineyard never sleep and Of course. A lot of, passion and feeling to approach this this job. It's hard working with the family, but the the good things is that you always came back and pointing on the the the the quality because we know everyone we follow-up the same. The same path. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Perfect. But before we start, I need to ask you this because, you know, we're we're around that time of the year. How's harvest going? I know it's not an easy vintage in many parts of Italy, but hopefully we have good news from you. Yeah. I heard about the disaster situation in all of Italy from the north to the south and for, seek or, too much rain or nothing after rain or ice frozen many, many problems. Luckily, we have been very, very lucky because some years ago, my father decided to move all the vineyard that my grandfather left to us to go investing in the mountain of Abruso. So we are eighty kilometers from the coast up to five hundred until, one thousand meter above the sea level. So we are the highest, vineyard in the, in Abruso. And the only one who can use the logo of the National Park because the National Park give us the permission to use their logo to promote and, let's show to the people the potential of this, green region, obviously. We have a very, nice, cold and amazing mountains full of, flowers, animals. We have a very, many, many, type of variety of vegetables. So it's a very rich region. And I invite you all to come and see with your eyes and touch with your hands how nature still, dominates the areas. Nature always dictates the time. Exactly. It's a great story and and and we'll be talking about this a little bit later when we talk about tourism, but, you know, you can see is that wine kind of dragging a little bit the tourism in general for a lot. So it's it's it's great. But I always like to to point out the the logo of the National Park, you know, when when we when we're drinking one of your wines here in the UK. So your father, you mentioned, you know, he he kinda decided to to go more inland rather than, than staying on the coast. Maybe a risky decision back then, but, obviously, has now paid off. But let's if you can take a step back. So tell us a bit more about Pazette Evini. When when did it all start? Yeah. I just wanna finish the point that our vineyard on the mountains doesn't get sick, doesn't follow the the rest of the the the end of the grapes for this harvest because we are in the faraway area of the main production of a brusso. So our clean and purity of the alty of the grapes is the result of the choice of many years ago just to approach the problem of the climate changing. And Of course. The the massive production. So on the mountains, it's very hard to have a lot of grapes because they've been here, suffer a little bit from the cold and the changing temperature from the microclimate and almost from the heavy rocks from the roots. So, from the mountain is coming the minerality and the salty, the natural salty or from the wine, we don't use chemical pesticide or herbicide because it's not allowed from their national park and almost we don't need it. So thanks to the heavy wind, the insect doesn't, attach the grapes. And almost, we respect the, a microbial gelatereno who is full of fungus So, there's a net of, mushroom down to the ground. And if you are going to use chemical stuff, those pesticides are burning the natural bacterial, the the the flora of the vegetables. So, it's hard to, the vineyard, to grow in a desert. So nature follow-up a circle and everybody, everything have his own reason Okay. So we respect, insects. We respect the, the flora. And thanks to that, we can have every year, an amazing harvest always very clean and healthy grapes. In fact, for that reason, how our wine in a brusso have the less concentration of sulfites of every other wine piece, even more respect to the organic wine wineries. It's, amazing. I guess the only option you have is quality winemaking. You don't really contemplate quantities considering all the the factors that you mentioned. Exactly. So we do wine for us and then what but rest, we can sell it. That was great. Okay. So tell us a little bit more how did it all start to use fifth generation, a long history in the family? Yes. My my family a long time ago, moved from Vanetto to go for camp in a brusso to grow grapes in order to send those grapes to the rest of the family. Oh, they was making wine. So when my grand grandfather diet on a bomb, and his son doesn't have the phone, the cellular phone. So he loo lose the contact with the rest of the family. He decide to start to transform those grapes into wine for sell the wine because it was easier selling wine than grapes, and everything starts for that reason. So at the time, my family continue making first of all vineyards, okay, and selling the wine in, like, five liter, ten liter, fifty liter, So, my grand grandmother, was taking the wine with the and to to sell the wine door to door. And so now that you Rakele, and David, who's the winemaker, and this is kind of the future for Pasetti. Right? Yeah. My father and my mother still in charge of the winery. So we follow-up them, and we always do what they wanna do. So they are the captain. We are still learning the job. So, we are doing our best. But when my father, getting charged of the winery, because his father was old and sick. He decided to, to cough all the vineyard, around the winery to go investing far away on the high mountain in order to do a different wine, not better. Different. Okay. He is the dreamer. He almost full of all the vineyard. He have the passion. Yeah. I I I like to think about my father, has the man in the movie who get on his knees and taste the ground and say, oh, this is a good, place for plants that vineyard. So Incredible. Every time I hear the stories, you know, always fascinates me the the courage, you know, back then to risk everything and and go in and explore this lands that really no one wanted. It's it's great. The last project that he have had made is to prepare the land before to plant the vineyard mixing different soil, different kind of structure of ground to, put clay to put sand, to put rock. Or organic material. So we used, like, what? Exactly. We use, reorganizerla materia. Okay. So some sort of mushrooms are helped to kind of reorganize the soil. Yeah. Right. And Okay. So he saw this project eight years ago, and we had the fourth vintages from them. And I can assure you that those vineyards who have the mixed blend are much stronger and powerful than the other. They never suffer the drying they don't suffer the rain and Oh, it's very interesting. Vineyard are full of grapes from the other vineyard. We used to pick like seventy, eighty tons per actor. From those vineyard, we arrived at hundred. So, for us, it's an amazing things because high quality, high production, close to the coast, and you can make almost three hundred tons per actor. Oh, wow. Yeah. Because it's very hot, warm. So the vineyard can push the the the the grapes. But for us, hundred is very an amazing result. So we are so proud of this project, then my father started eight years ago. There's a very famous winery in Italy. It's one of the first winery of Italy that they came in our wineries two times per year just for Luke and study what my father is doing. So they are trying to take consideration. Yeah. Yeah. They they, are looking at the project and and hopefully re reproduce it. Yeah. And, last month, we came there and we noticed that they was reproducing our way of preparing land. So my father was so proud and happy of that. That he he pump his chest. I bet. Yeah. And this is this is, I bet, the beauty of wine, you know, we need to share as well the achievements that all winemakers get. So the whole of Italy can grow as a as a wine region If we can, Massimo, so talking about a brusso inevitably, we we we think of multiple channels. So we're gonna dive a little bit more into the the varieties that you work with and then the wines that you produce. Montipuliano is very well known variety that's widely planted in Italy, not only in a but maybe in a is where best expresses itself. It can give, you know, really rich wines at times earthy and a little bit rustic maybe sometimes in style. Some of them can age really well. But what's your relationship with this variety? How would you best describe multiple channel? Monteable channel is an amazing grapes, an amazing variety. If you are able to grow vineyards in the right way, you can have a very delicate, smooth, fresh, a rosette, very pinky, color, high minerality, very easy to drink. And if you start from the vineyard and then, continue in the winery following the right way, you can have from the Monteable channel that brewed, so a wine that can age for thirty, fifty years without no problem. It can arrive naturally at fifteen degrees of alcohol very easily, and it have a very powerful color I compare maybe the merlot that is, quite light color. It can have ten point of color. In the Montego channel, we can arrive at sixteen, seventy point of color. That's seven times more. So it's an amazing song. You invited me once to a tasting from the, consortium. I think it was in Provine. And when I left that place, my teeth were were black. Yes. Yes. Because, in the skin of the grapes, there are the stuff, the, the tanning, the colors, and all the polyphenolion Toshani, if you fermented the grapes, the juice with the skin, you, extract those stuff. If you quickly press soft, this, those grapes and divided the skin from the juice, you will have very smooth color and light fruity flower taste. That's the beauty of this variety. And, differently to the montepulceano novels that everybody fall in. They They They've mistaken. They've taken the They've taken the They've taken the They've taken the the different are the variety, not just the location, okay, or the region. The Montebuchano Nobles is made with the Cabernes Oignon. The Montebuchano da brusso is a completely different variety. I don't know how to say English. It's a friend family of Vineyard. So they are not even cousin. Okay. The similar name was given from the family of Medi. That in the fourteenth centuries, they came in a brusso to commercialize the ship. Okay? They were looking for, all of of the ship. Yeah. Yeah. She pulled. Yeah. She pulled. And when they arrived in a brusso, they tried the Monteguciano and they see the potential of these grapes. So they decide to give the same name of the Monteguciano, the brusso because at that time Monteguciano no bills was a very, very famous grapes. So in that way, they buy grapes for very low price and they moved those grapes in the part of Italy, like my family, have made for generation to sell those grapes like, montauvuchano Nobles. To, to, to get rich. And so, there's this little confusion, from the similar name, but just the name is similar. The rest is totally different. Don't worry, Massimo. We're used to it. We're used to being confused when when it comes to Italian wines. Wine to wine business forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine, supersize your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point wine dot net. Cool. And and when it comes to white wines, obviously, your vineyard's like you mentioned, they go up to a thousand meters in in the Appinines. You also work with some white varieties. I mentioned Pecorino earlier. I know you also work with Casarina, but I'd like to focus a little bit more on Pecorino. What's so special about this variety? The name of this variety is like the cheese, the burrito cheese made from the milk of the ship, as I told you already from the medici that they came in a brusso for the sheep wall because in a brusso, since the Roman Empire, we used to pay tax to Romans with the ship, make, meet. Well, so, having mountains and coast, region of a brusso is very good to, having Pascolare consideration, LaVare. So having a lot of, sheep, those sheep during the summer, they stay on the mountain. And a high altitude to eat grease, fresh grease. And when the winter season coming in autumn, they moved on the coast to reach more warm weather. So during those movements that we call it transumance. During the transumanza, the animals found the vineyard, and they just eat only eat the pecorino instead to others grapes because the pecorino, like the chardonnay, arrived to the maturation before the others variety. So being more sweeter, was more appetizer. And so the farmers notice does this leg and give the name of the animal to the variety, to the plant. So that's how was born name of the Corino, the grapes of the ship. And so when it comes to the style of the wine and and the connection that it has in in your vineyards, because, obviously, we have Pequeline as well from La Marque, which is totally different, and then when you have in in a boots. The nice things of Italy, is that we have a very straight, land and very long. So we have mountains that divide the different region. And in every region, we have different climate different balance. So plants like his own best place to grow and to adapt for the climate that they are fighting. So Ecorino is from the center of Italy, because in the center of Italy, we have more medium weather. In the north part, it's very cold. In the south, it's more, hot. So in Abruso, Lacio, Mark, Melissa, the temperature is more medium. Okay? So, that's very good for the plan to select his best place. Yeah. And that's like you said, that's the beauty of of Italian wine, really, and and that's great varieties that we have in the whole of Italy. Is a very fruity aromas. Of course, I can assure you that, the same variety made with the same system from the same hand, but from the two different side, of the same mountain. It's coming to completely different product. So it's very hard to me to compare a wine from the south with one from the north because for me it's hard to compare one side of the other side to the same point. That's the terroir. My father starting from a dream from a project, he choose the best land for his, experience his sensibility. He choose the right place with the right ground, the right exposure. So you cannot wake up in the morning and say, okay, let's do some wine. Start making wine. It's a very heavy job. My brother had studied for twenty years. He had trouble around the world making ten harvests in all of the world. He have been in Spain, in French, in Germany, in South Africa, in Australia. So he traveled a lot to learn and see the world of the wine is, and then come back. In Italy to work with this family and give the, the experience that he gained from. Exactly. So for him, he needs some year to learn an absolute approach the tradition of the family, the traditional way of making wine slowly, he start to give his cut, his change, but with physics, not chemical. Okay. So Yeah. I mean, you know, through his experiences, he's gained his own way of working, and I was gonna say as well, able to to prevent, rather than then, cure any possible issues in vineyards and in the cellar. Exactly. He's gained the rich experience behind which is, which is always great. It opens your mind as well. We know, we're in a, you know, in a world where all wineries want to sell abroad. So it's important to also know and see and learn about new markets and how they work in other countries And so let's move a little bit more on on the kind of range of wines that you make. We've spoken about multiple channel, and, I guess, your most iconic wine is the testaro sauce. So what's the story behind this wine? A lot of people ask me, oh, is it because of the ferrari? Unfortunately, no. Tastarosa, it means red hat. My father create this brand when my sister was born because she have a red hair. And like my brother. So my my sister is the first, daughter, then me and then my brother. So they both have red hair, and it's quite unusual in Italy, the red hair color So my father wanna commemorate his Batezima. So he don't care about spending money. He bought a very particularly strange bottle. And using the best wine he have in the winery and ask to an artist man, friend of him, to realize very particular label. And this artist man creates the label, a leather label pressed with a hot stem to vest, you know, this bottle. And everybody fell in love with that bottle because it was very pretty good looking and the wine was amazing. So my father understand that the market needs quality. They can appreciate the quality instead the quantity. So in the ninety nine, when he he became the the owner, and he finally was able to realize his dream, making different wine, pending all of his care and attention. Oh, very interesting. And when it comes to the wine, is it a a multiple channel, the brusso reserve. Right? Yes. For the disciplinary, so for the law of making wine, or from a brusso, you just need, six or nine months in barrels. To put the name Resarva. But, we do two years. So twenty four months of aging and Burry because, we think that the most important part of the barrels is not to give the taste of the wood, but to microsuginated the wine. So with the microsugination, wine can age evolve and becoming more smoother and giving you more spicy aromas. So aging is very important. So it's not just putting the taste of the wood. So after two years of barrels, we can go in bottle. But before the two years in barrels, we spent one year in a cement tank, cement tanks that was lived from our grandfather. He made those cement tanks who are painted with a special, glass painting that doesn't give the taste of the wine. So are like stainless steel. But the very good things of those salmon tanks are the heavy and large wool that prevents the changing temperature of the wine. So the wine can rest and sleep and stabilized, okay, making a very good knob before to go in the barrels because the barrels almost give to the wine a little to. So it's a little bit stressed for the wine. Okay. So, after the barrels, we need other six months of bottle. So the almost the time of spending in a the glass bottle is, essential because, the wine, like, the seven tank can rest and form his, long leg and give you more taste, more his mouth, and more buddy. It's one of my favorites from from your range, and, alongside the pecorino, if you guys have a chance to to taste it, definitely grab a bottle. So I think we have some time left. And I there's one question I really wanted to ask you, obviously recently, there's a lot of talk about what they call in or turismo, the kind of tourism surrounding the wine. In your opinion, what does Abluto as a region need to do to improve and become? Even more so a wine destination. But you're bordering with Tuscany, which attracts all the attention. What do you think, you know, Abluta can do during the coming years? Stuff are moving. So many project, many agency of tourism are, burning the mood very, very well, either us are fixing the taverna in order to do more, negotiation to have more people. So we almost have an agreed release, up to the, the vineyard, but, it's still closed because we don't have enough time So we are still Working progress. Yeah. Working progress exactly. We focused just on the quality and so we now are working for, the project of the new winery, all down to the ground, all The winery is is, again, within the, within the national park. And and every time we speak, there's there's a new issue that pops up Yes. But, you know, it's it's Italy. We know. Yeah. It seems to be a little bit frustrating for you as well, not being able to finish the this new project, this new winery. Yeah. But we don't give up. So we will continue to push and trying because it's our job, our future. We we can do wine. That's the things. Not No. Of course. And after after, you know, your father's great risk, in in, you know, in in moving there, I guess you need to continue his work as well and take it to the next step. There's one last question as well I wanted to ask you. In a way, you didn't choose this career, you know, but we can say that wine maybe chose you. What's the legacy you as Massimo? Broken a lot about your father as well, but what's the legacy you as Massimo would like to leave for for future generation? First of all, I hope to don't destroy everything. This will be a good starting point keep start. Yeah. And then our market is for more than the half in locally. So we are very well known in a brusso. Every rest front, every pub, every bar, every liquor store, they have our product. It's a very unusual balance because the and the normal you focus a lot on on on the distribution in Abruzzo? And I would say maybe a good ninety percent is sold in Abruzzo? Ninety percent in all of Italy. All of Italy. Okay. Yeah. And sixty percent is in, in Abruzzo. More than half. And how many bottles do you produce at at the moment? We produce around five hundred thousand bottle. Okay. So it's not more a nice number that allows you as well to to look at foreign market. Obviously, we work a little bit in the UK with you, but which are the markets are you present in worldwide? I hope to let the Paziti wine can be drink it, you know, all over the world. We'll be for me, very proud result. Nice. What are your main markets? For the export, the ten percent of the markets, we have only little importers that they focus on, good wine. And almost because, you know, Brutso, there are a lot of, comparative that they make a very cheap wine. So for us, it's not easy to present quality wine from a brusso because it's very common to think about a brusso is a region of, house wine, exactly. But we have a very big, big potential. I can open you a bottle from a harvest two thousand. The wine is still amazing. So this could mean something. I just wasted it. Definitely invite everyone to do the same. Hey. Thanks. It's an amazing conversation. It was very thorough, actually, Massimo. So thanks for your time and also for explaining thoroughly to us. So We have actually two questions from the audience. One from Ellen Douglass. So her question is how widely available is your wine in the USA? So it's pretty much connected to Robert last question? Now in USA, it's a strange moment because we had, an importers that he don't live our dreams. So he just blocked us for many years. And now I just cut him last week. So from now, I'm looking for a, a good importer to open, again, the, the US market, because, you know, I noticed that in the US is not the the wine that make you disability, but is the the right person. Okay. I I need to find someone, professional. Now America is quite, heavy point for me. Actually, Arviyah Community is, a community of wine professionals where you can also connect with. Wine importers, we have here Julie. She's actually importing, Italian wines. Also she's Italian American. If you are going to join for wine to wine business forum coming this November, you can get in touch with our video community. Nice. So another question from, Bev, So she, they have visited, in Villa Almarie last October. Yeah. Frankavilla. Yes. Frankavilla Almarie. Francoavilla Almara, was very My mother. Oh, your mom. She was a gracious host. She said, and she still have the, two thousand and four Hariman. My her favorite wine, la was the wind the one that Lara poured was a Rosato sparkling called Victoria is Victoria in production. Victoria have been a a project of me and my brother because when he came back in the two thousand seventeen from his study, I proposed him to start making some bubble, some, spumante. And so my brother make the wine. I designed the bottle, and we start with the two thousand bottle just did. Two thousand bottle in two thousand seventeen, two thousand bottle in two thousand twenty, two thousand bottle in two thousand twenty one. So we just keep trying and learning how to making sparkling wine because it's a very different stuff from wine, okay, before to start making, more number we would like to be more sure from this results. So we cannot put in commerce, a bad product. So who takes the Victoria was lucky because we try it. And, unfortunately, the wine was good, and we decided to put in on commerce, but was very quickly run out of stock. So now it's it's out of stock. Or if she oh, okay. How can Bev, connect with you if she would like to have another bottle? She should wait for the next harvest. From this harvest, we start making eight thousand bottle. But, from now, we should wait other two years to come outside in, in commerce. So it's, it's not so easy and quickly making wine. There are time and waiting. You need a lot a lot of patience. Yeah. For sure. If in any case, your website is passaty vinny dot it. Yes. And on Instagram, it's passeti underscore vinny. Yeah. So thank you so much for being here Masimo and Robert. So that's it for today folks, and thank you so much. Goodbye, everyone. Wine to wine business forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine, supersize your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point blind dot net.