Ep. 1812 Barbara Fitzgerald interviews Sergio Germano | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian wine Geeks around the world. Support the show by donating at Italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book. My Italian Grape journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Clubhouse Ambassador Corner. So today, we have Barbara Fitzgerald. And she will be interviewing Sergio Germano. Hi, Barbara. How are you? Hi, Leika. I'm wonderful. How about you? I'm I'm wonderful too. So before I dive into the questions, I wanted to introduce you first to our audience as, you know, as a refresher because, you know, we kinda miss you, so we wanna introduce you again. So we're going to talk about you first. Okay. So So Barbara here, she has a career of nearly two decades in the wine industry. So she specializes in D2C marketing and business development. She actually talked about this on our podcast interview first with Victoria touch it on the next generation. And then that's where it started. And then we started talking about it. She started talking about it more, on wine to wine. So our wine to wine sessions, the recorded sessions are already out. So we're just trying to publish it every week. So your session is going to be on italoi Podcasts, so at some point. So I will let you know. Anyways, Barbara, she led roles from entry level to senior management combining her extensive experience with data analysis, critical thinking, and storytelling while driving revenue growth and brand recognition for California wineries. She's part of the fourth generation of an Italian American family A mom in the California wine industry pioneers, and she has spent her life around wine growing production, marketing, distribution, and hospitality. Wow. Okay. That's a lot. And you are very, very talented, I suppose. Like, if two kinds, don't don't make me blush. Okay. Okay. I will not. So I will just dive in straight to the questions. So why did you select Sergio as your favorite producer for tonight? Well, I have always really appreciated how Sergio and the atoro Germano wines really strike the balance between honoring the heritage of the area. They're from but also bringing innovation to it. And so such is, like, really incredibly curious and experimental in both wine growing and wine making. And so, and also, people probably know him most well for making wines from Vrola, but he also makes fantastic Alta Longa sparkling wines, and I'm here for the sparkling wine. So Wow. Okay. That's a different angle, I think. So for now, we only have a few audience, but I wanted to actually, say hi to Nicoletta Paula. She was our producer. She has been interviewed two weeks ago by Russ Lober. So I am so happy to see you here. Also Edward, Elena, Julia, and Luis. Our second question for you, Barbara, is what are the learning objectives that we should be expecting from this interview? Well, I hope everyone learns about, Sanjay's specific approach to making Nebula, because as I said, he's very experimental and very curious, both in the vineyard in in the cellar. I also hope they learn about his specific approaches to making wine in in middle to classical, the the classic method for sparkling wine, and also learn about some of the other grapes he's been experimenting with in in the Pilante area. Okay. So my last question is, how did you discover the wines of Etor germano? I first discovered them at Trebicherry in San Francisco. I think it was in twenty fifteen. And they his wine just happened to have very good representation in the two places I spend the most time, which are California and Italy. So I come into contact with them very often. And in fact, I was just in Italy for two weeks on a work trip, and I was at a restaurant in Financet, and a couple next to me ordered a bottle of a torta Jevano, and then the same thing happened to me again in Milano. So, definitely, people are out there loving his wine and drinking his wine. Yeah. That's that's a funny coincidence probably, Ehrman, to do the clubhouse service. Yeah. Try the points. Okay. So I am going to turn over the floor to you. Okay? Okay. Well, Samu, are you are you there? Hi. I'm here. Hi. Well, thank you so very much for making the time to be here. It's a pleasure. It's almost evening here, and Yes. You know, at the end of the day. If I have the timing right, you probably have the most epic sunset happening, in your beautiful hills. There in Saramanca. So I'm gonna give a little background about you, your biography, and then I'll start asking you some some questions. Pleasure. Sergio was born in nineteen sixty five. And as a child, he helped his parents in the vineyards after school. So he's always been in the in the Brola area. After finishing his analogy studies in Alba, he worked for three very important wineries in that area, all the while continuing to help out his father and contributing to the conversion of the family farm to a full fledged winery. So in nineteen eighty eight, the first five thousand bottles of Barolo Delceto and Barbera were placed on the market together with a small production of chardonnay, but the turning point really came a few years later in nineteen ninety three when all the family's grapes were vinified and bottled for themselves. So in nineteen ninety five, Sergio bought about two hectares of Cheretta vineyard and started the challenge of producing wines in Altamanga, planting the first vineyards of chardonnay and riesling in Chilien. In nineteen ninety seven, he married Elena Bonnelli, who's given great support to the to the family winery and, helping Sergio with business administration as well as hospitality. And then the family grew even more with the joy of the birth of their two children, Elya, in nineteen ninety eight, and Maria in two thousand and one. And then continuing on after a few years, Sergio purchased another hector of, Vineyards in Prapo. Lesarito and Pradone, which is a particular parcel of of Lazorito, and also another parcel in Cheretta. So these, for anyone who doesn't know, are all crews of Barolo. In twenty ten, Sergio's mother inherited from her cousin to Maso canale, half of a Hector in the most historic and famous vineyard of Serelunga, which is Vigna Rionda. Sergio's goal is to express the territory and the character of the various vines, trying to expect express elegance and finesse in the wines, which as a Pemonteza tradition are generally combined with gastronomy. So what a great background. We're so lucky to have you here to learn all about this. Sergeant, can you tell us a little bit about, in your own words, maybe, about the history of Victoria Germanano and and how you came to to be in charge? Yeah. Of course, Hector German or my father was the the first full time, buying Rover because before my grandfather, my grandfather, they run a mixed farm, traditionally in our area, but my father feel the potential of the political tour, and he print all the state betweenyard was the classic, grape variety from our region, Dolchetto grape, Balber grape, and Nebula grape, but he sold the grape. It was the, winemaker because it doesn't have time enough. It was so passionate about vineyard. It was very skilled grafted. He select, all the kind of grape to graft himself in our vineyard. We still continue with this, selection. And we are proud to have this in our red, gray varieties. And, in eight nineteen eighty five, when I finished the neurologist school, I definitely have a dream to do some bottle of wine, and we're starting eighty eight with some, I was saying you're reading, my biography. And now, so that was in nineteen eighty eight. How many bottles are you making now? Speaking American, it's Frank. He has almost twelve thousand cases, thirteen thousand cases. That's fantastic. Are we around twenty two hectares? This is almost fifty five acres of vineyard. In the two farming, Sarah Lunga, almost twenty five, acre, hang, Altaanga, Chile, almost thirty acres. Fantastic. So let's get really really into it now. So how do you manage your vineyards to ensure the quality of your grapes and what sustainable practices do you use in your vineyard? Fortunately, as I told, my father is, it was a very skilled and very passionate and respectable wine grower. He don't need to use any stranger, but, just to work with the traditional, what I'd like is, from my grandfather, my father, I can learn the really interesting, or all all our, historical practice to work, to respect, all the character of every corner, every slope, every exposure, different, and this is important to know that to to manage differently because, a little bit more early, by break or, maturation or later, more sunny, more windy. And this is a very, very important because it is possible to manage to safe to keep some more treatments. Our goal is the respect, respect for the area, respect for ourselves because we live in the area, of course, respect of the customer who drink our wine or to come to enjoy the area where we work, where we live. So study abroad, of course, is is a respect. We we we follow I don't like to categorize my, my, imagine this, but, we follow almost the, the organic protocol, but, with, some more deeper character to do it, here by here, to manage it with flexibility. What we do to have a best result in the quality and to respect the division. I really love that. That's it. Sustainability is a is a circle of respect. That's a very nice way to put it. Climate change is presenting a particular water challenge in the language. So how if at all have you adjusted your farming in response to this? Again, it's important to know everything to, don't, work too much, to don't turn too much the soil. It's important to do the herb between the row, to cut regularly to have, the control of the harbor. We see the harbor as a ring manure because you have a double goal to, fix the nitrogen in the in the soil, but also to keep the soil open But after we cut the grass and they do like a cover on the, on, like, a towel on the on the soil just to protect the operation of the soil and to help the life of the of the soil. And it's important also we have to have if if we have a rain, we can catch all the drops, from the rain as possible, even we are in the very particular area because the sloper's deep, the soil is very, clay, alive, honey. There is the erosion is very, very important. We have to protect also the vineyard from the erosion to keep the the morphology of the soil and after to catch the water, and to put in the soil more more as possible to make the reservoir water. And green manure, I learned from you when I went through last week. That is what we would call seed spreading. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. The terroir, you were already kinda speaking this, but the terroir of Barolo can change significantly from row to row, not just from one vineyard to the next. You happen to make wine from some of the top crews of Barolo. And can you explain some of the specific characteristics of these sites and how they might affect your wines? Oh, yeah. It's just, the most important, the most fascinating character, because, we have the what people say terroir is the interaction between the soil, the environment environment, and the man who manage this, but, Nebula is, the detector is one of the most sensitive, the gray variety to catch the character of the soil spatially, and the soil of a barrel area is, made five to ten million years ago has a sedimentation of the water from the sea. This is a very intriguing because it depends from the current of the water. We can have a some more, fine texture like Saraluma where we live or where we work. Or maybe a little bit more Sandy or little story if it was a little bit more movement of the water and a bit more more young five, six, million here. For this reason, in the sedimentation, we have a some different, sometime because, after that, we had, like, an earth week to move a little bit, after the sedimentation, almost ten million years ago. And this, make the difference from the slope from the altitude, from the top of the hill, a little bit, medium. And this is what is very intriguing to work in this area to select, to share, to device, to win make the wine separated from many plots, and we have a different expression of the wine. And this is about the mostly intricate and fascinating character. And this is the sense or where we have some time, we are close by nearby, and they have a relatively different expression in the nose and the texture of the tanning. And this is, I think, for the wine lover, is one of the most important characters to take from the same producer, different expression, or from the same hill with some different producer, a little bit, character different is is a very, very fascinating. Yeah. It means there's so much to explore. I mean, there's so much to explore in wine period that even within this one region, it's so varied. How would you say wine growing really differs in but all of from Alta Lanka in terms of soil type and pruning and green harvesting and canopy management? We we have to say the the soil, like, in Barolo area, as we told, is mainly limestone. Me, clay, reaching, calcium carbonite. Sometimes with sandstone, very few stones, very IPH, high concentration in, compare that give a power texture. Alta Alanga is also higher elevation. Lower lung, but all of aero is, tilt, seeing under a feet, the more or less is the limit of the altitude where we grow nevio all over is Barolo, Barbara. Where we're going, Alta Langa, we are maybe twenty, thirty kilometer, of the south more close to the mountain between the separate pitmont and liguria. And where the mountain was, made a bit more earthquake, a more, movement. And also, the sedimentation was more chaotic, and we have a more stone. We have a lot of sand stone and stone in Artalanga. And the altitude is between, fifteen to fifteen hundred to two thousand feet in elevation. And this changed totally the microclimate, the car climate, the temperature. And beside this, also, the the composition, more, light in a term of, texture, he changed the character. And, but, we do two different kind of, growing. In Barolo, we grow navy or grape mainly. In Artalanga, we I grow white varieties as pin on water, Sheldon, for sparking Artalanga, the riesling and Sheldon for still wine or Nashekta, the indigenous variety originally from Barolo area. And these are wine where I look for more finesse, more crisp, and, shortness and minerality, and freshness, like, lower, sugar. In barolo, we need more power and more concentration. This is the main difference between those two. But we do the the same management in the in the growing. Interesting. And just for a point of reference, how far is battle of from Alta Longa? Beginning of Altaanga is just five, six mile. But after is, till thirty forty mile. Alanga is a big area. But Chydia is where is that in relation to, but It is almost thirty, thirty five miles Okay. South to Barolo. So let's talk a little bit about now some, of your wine making. So during the harvest, of Nebula, do you prefer to keep the fruit whole or crush the berries for more extraction? Do you employ any whole clusters at all? I need to say very important for me I like always to crush the berries because I think it's important that juice become wine in contact with the skin. It will extract the tanning and the color because I think it's important with just, the the grape, not not crushed. I think the fermentation is, for some reason, more difficult to manage and also sometimes doesn't express in theory the character of the grape variety. Sometimes, we don't disturb the grape, but we always crash because, for me, it's important during the maceration too. Of course, we are from Saraluma, Saraluma is typically, and, tellar where, people expect power, tanning, and texture. And for this reason, I like to respect, this personality of of the wife from Sararuga. And that's, I think, one of the things that makes you so interesting because you you so well combine the the heritage with with all of the the newer things that you're testing out. And sticking with making Nebula, do you prefer the fast warmer fermentation that's more classic butolo, or do you prefer a cooler slower one, and do you use open or close top fermenters? We do the fermentation not too fast because we do fermentation and maceration altogether is very long. We do minimum thirty five, forty days. And, for some selection or the single vineyard or reserve will be due to fifty or sixty days. And for this reason, we don't need the fast fermentation and high temperature. I prefer to do medium temperature long contact is interesting to extract a step by step, the complexity of the wine. Yeah. And do you do open or close top? We do open until the fermentation And after when we start the matter maturation because the fermentation is gone and it is the carbonic gas. There is, slow down. We close the the the tank. And that's amazing. So sometimes up to sixty days on your on your single vineyards. Yeah. That's incredible. So with some of the changes in fruit chemistry, especially in recent years, how has that affected your decision to use indigenous versus selected yeast strains And what about, you know, what do you think about melolactic strains? I never liked the spontaneous fermentation because, spontaneous fermentation is, the same, when we need an helper and employer, We don't do any test to check him whether we bring the first one we met in our, road. And we never know if this, guy has a high performance or, he doesn't like to work. For me, is much more important to express the volatile character in the terroir to ferment with, select the yeast, but neutral. I like when the yeast transformed the sugar in alcohol, but I think it's important they rest pack. It's almost the same, like, the yeast, to ferment the sparkling in bottle. They don't have to give the aromas or fermentation. They have to just to change the sugar in alcohol And in this case, we have a more neutral character from the east, and we can appreciate the character of the terwar, the more herty, more fruity, more spicy, or, the regular fermentation, especially now with a hot temperature, the spontaneous is always more, an odds are to to trust the the spontaneous fermentation. I prefer, to control this And that's probably why your wines year after year are so expressive of the of where they came from and the grape. So why do you choose people don't know? You choose not to use Buddy for Nebula wines, and why do you choose to do that? And do you find that some crews perform better in different sized aging vessels as compared to others? Well, I think, it's important always to manage, in terms of the extraction or evolution of the tannings because the tannings are very important in the setup of the wine, in the complexity of the wine. It's important to give a taste, but it's important to be round as is possible. I don't care about the quantity of the turning. But is important, the quality of the tanning. This is the reason why we are always more focused in the harvest with very ripe tanning. And after the long maturation on the skin is very helpful because if we do short maturation, we have more tanning more aggressive than if we do long maturation on the skin, we have the evolution during the maturation. And when we wrack the wine, it is much more refined and more complex and more deep. And after is Not necessary to have a small size of a oak because I think the oak, the main goal of the oak, the barrel is to give the oxygen and to help the turning to be more round and more silky. If we have good beginning of the turning, is it not necessary to have small size to have more oxygen to involve the turning? For this reason, we are I always like a minimum seven hundred liter. But, more and more because the global warming helped the maturation of the tunneling. We have a large battery, like, two thousand, twenty five hundred, three thousand liter, because they can have a great maturation of the oxygenation, but they keep also the freshness, of the fruit, of the wine. Yeah. And it shows in your wines. So you were already telling us a little bit about your sparkling wine making when we were talking about the yeast strains, but Can you tell us a bit more about your approach to making your Altalanga wines? This was, one of my dream because I'm, I did a school of a winemaker, a knowledge is a school. And, of course, I was always passionate and fascinated from the, different kind of way making the reason why also I like to try to make a white wine, still white, like, chardonnay, or also like riesling, but the dream was also the sparkling because the sparkling something with the double fermentation is a very intricate and and I like the wine. I I I like, I drink a lot of champagne in my life, and I I always like to try to make a sparkling myself, but I never take the answer because, before wasn't wasn't an operation. And I I judge myself, not enough, a big winery, to have a power to promote also in sparkling. But when I feel the Alta Langapilation becoming the marketing, end of nineteen ninety, I decide to try also myself because, an operation is an expression of terwar. I consider myself an, man, of terwar. And for me, it's important to challenge also obviously, I'm a barolo producer. I don't need to forget, and I'm happy when the people don't forget, we are becoming primary barolo producer, but I have also other passion in my job. And for this reason, I decide to try also to make sparkly Champenoian because it was in a population of and Alta Alanga is this recent, the first vintage of Alta Alanga is in two thousand and two. And, I I had my first release in two thousand three, just one thousand bottle very, very small, quantity because the vineyard in Alta longer grow very, very slowly. I don't have a lot of, grape, but after I was, I feel the the character of the area, I increased the plantation. And now we own more than five vector of, Pinolari children to make Altalanga. This is, what I like because Altalanga have an expression, very particular, and, here, but a lot of personality between this partnership and payroll. Yes. And how long typically, do you stay keep the wines on the leaf? Oh, the Alcalanga, rule are very, very strict. I think it's the mostly restrictive, protocol because minimum for to call Alcalanga, is a thirty month from that is Triage to the disgovernment is mandatory. And always, in other particular to make unique diaporation is the, vintage because he has to be always with vintage, like all the Piedmont is wine, a baro bar bar barresco barbera. Everyone, I have a the vintage in the in the in the label every year. Also, Alanga is mandatory. This is very interesting because it's particular area. It justifies also. Of course, it's expensive to make hotel hunger. And the reason why people have to understand this is a potentially high level of wine. But it's great because it really allows for people year over year to understand the kind of very vintage variations while still kind of getting the three line of the terroir and the and the and the grapes themselves. Absolutely. The the the goal of Atalanga is done to have every year the same, expression, like many, many others sparkling in the world, but more particular, difference between every, every year. That's great. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. So you also make, Neobio into some sparkling wine with what you green harve list. So how does this grape how does making this grape in Matilda classico differ from Alta Longa? As as the people say, I'm a experimental man. Of course, I like to try many, many kind of, win making And I after six here, to start to make Altaanga, I decided to try to winify the the green harvest. We we do the green harvest of the the Nebula for Barolo. Quite late in the beginning, of September. And, the character of the grape, almost good to have a good alcohol, ten, ten point five percent, and, a lot of acidity. And I I did in, two thousand and eight, then my first experiment in two thousand and nine, the second one to, to check what's happening here. And, after I start to share with some friend or with some customer, And, of course, they feel, interesting wine, very different than Pinot because we can have a relation between pinot noir and and and Nebula in the red wine, pineomar is always more, verbiologist is a little bit more rustic. In the same, side when we do sparkling. Pinomar is more, elegant, more refined. Nebula has more personality in aromas, a little bit of touch or tanning. But this is a character. The reason why, in the Bureau of Sparkling, we we make, we we respect the primary fruit. We don't need to do too long, stay on the list just twenty four months. But in all those Asia, the same, like, the Alta Alanga to have more to to kind of feel the brightness of the petal rose and, and red fruit, typical from Bernabiola harvested very early. So you mentioned that you do your green harvest pretty late in September, but is that typical for Barolo, or is that more your decision? It depends. It depends. It's a this is a what I said before. The personality of the wine is from the personality of the wine broker, the winemaker. Some people can do the green harvesting, mid July. I prefer to go, but this is also because we are a small wineries, and we can do that, in a few days, very late. It we can take out the less mature, grape, and we keep the little bit more complete on the line to have help the maturation more, and we can also manage more with more character because we are closer to the the harvest and we can, see your pin check. We can check the evolution of the weather or the potential of the vintage. Yes. You have a kind of almost a better idea of the direction of the vintage at that point. Is it different? Is everyone can do a different but we like that. Yeah. So I'm gonna shift my questions a little bit now more to the the sales side of your of your job. What would you say is the breakdown of sales for you between direct sales, domestic, and and international? We don't choose the the market. We try to do our best and we welcome everyone to taste them by our wine. Actually, we have almost fifty percent, forty five percent Italian market. We sell almost ten percent direct in the seller for the private customer with the visitor with the people from, the tourists, tourists and way lower, especially. The rest is almost twenty percent in US and the rest in, North Europe, and a little bit in Asia. And so you say you don't really go out and search for for people. Does that mean people are coming to you to open up markets, or you're just happy with the way the markets are going? In term, I don't decide, like, I will I need to do more in Denmark or more in Sweden. We are here as we can we try to find especially the good, professional, and consistent partner client. To be leaving our, philosophy and our small winery. So you mentioned that you sell about ten percent of your wine directly out of the cellar, which is a pretty great number. So how have you seen enoteurism and direct sales grow over the past five years? Yeah. We saw a big increase spent, obviously, after the declaration of UNESCO. Of course, it was a little bit breakdown from the COVID, of course, but after COVID, we had an explosion a visitor again, and, more and more for the restaurants, for the wineries, for the tourists, it's it's nice to see a lot of people to run, or to ride in a bicycle. Between the vineyard or, you know, on the top of the hill, to ring a door to test the wine and to go in the restaurant. It is really, really, an increase, very important to human. We consider, twenty years ago, twenty five years ago. We had, two, two and a half months of tourists may be retrieved from travel exhibition in October, November, and a little bit of months of between around the Eastern Spring. Now we have almost seven, eight months tourist. And this is already really interesting. Yeah. That's really great for the area. I didn't put this question, down in advance to you, but I am so curious because you're a native of quemonte and of Barolo specifically. I mean, can you talk a little bit about how you've seen it change from since you were a little boy to now? Yeah. Of course, it was a big change. We we are to be honest. I'm almost sixty. And when I was child fifty years ago, the area was, very different because we had almost all mixed farm. Nebula was maybe thirty percent of the production of grape, but the rest was Dorchetton Babbeira because it was more people to drink wine every day. And the barolo was not popular like today. Fortunately after the bigger revolution, after methanol's scandal, many wine growers stop to sell the grape and start to make wine himself, and we pass from, forty to four hundred wineries. And this is very, very interesting for the market. For different inspection to revive the area, also to give more personality and more, interesting to catch the attention of the people. And, in the past, it was quite we can we can save repour but was not easy like now. Now, with the wine, help very, very much beside the tourism and the restaurant to increase the wellness of this area. Yeah. And maybe even thirty years ago, it was still pretty poor. Right? And now it's this beautiful UNESCO site that the world wants to visit? It was not, like today. It was unsure. More, also, the climate wasn't a little colder, was not easy to have a perfect maturation every year. If you see, the Calendaro, the vintage of Barolo. It was one, exceptional and a really good, each three, four years. Now we have every year. A good quality, good potential. This is a very, very good. Also, decline might change, but also the professionality of the people. Everyone have increased the knowledge. All of the family have a maybe son or daughter to do anologist at school or they have increased the the character of the work, and they are more professional. Yeah. That's fantastic. They did an art it was an art work to from everybody, but we had a good result. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So back to a little bit, well, sort of on the same line with a little board history of the area, but you are working with some other autochtinous grapes from Kemante. So can you tell us what they are and about your trials with them? Well, we work, of course, with Barbera. We stopped to work with Dolcito. In Alta, I start to grow Nacheta, indigenous variety. Originally from Barolo area, also very intriguing for me, especially because I'm passionate about white wines. I like to challenge myself in, winemaking in white, beside the the Barolo. And, I think, Nacheta is a character interesting and also is parallel area, and it's good to keep this story. We do now the experimentation. I have been couple of here. It will be totally up to up to reside. Authorized the, is a rat is another, indigenous variety originally in from Altalanga, very acid, very good to make sparkling. And this is the reason why I like very much, but I will try also to do steel wine. And this is, interesting. Will the DOC of Elta Longa allow you to blend that, or does it have to be specific varieties? Now we have to think about where to check the experiment to judge, what is the result? And are you one of the main people experimenting with that, or are there other people? Actually, that's just me with, a colleague, but he do only the growing or the grape variety. If I make the wine. And, now also the university or tutoring, they do the official experimentation of thirty, forty bottle here just to finalize the authorization. And one more time, can you repeat the name of that grape The grape is the color that, you know, what, region that is a red, because the evolution of the of the Gueh. The Gueh Blanc is the father of many regular IT from Europe. Right. Chardonnary, Zinga, Syvignon. Yep. So speaking of riesling, I also have the opportunity to taste your riesling, which is fantastic. And you mentioned that this is one of your favorite grapes. So I wanna know how you developed your passion for riesling. And do you think it has a future in I have to repeat, my my personality. Yeah. I'm a fashion what when I I'm fascinated from something I try to make. Or I try to experiment. And when I start to travel, in Europe, in Germany, Africa, to show the first bottle of my barolo. I tasted the riesling and it was fascinating. And I decided to try to make a few bottles. So the pressure increase. So when I find the area in Alta Lanka, where, the character of the weather and the soil feel for me more interesting to make white wines and sparkling. I decided to try to do this. And, I'm happy people recognize the volatile character because it's my first goal. It was funny because when I start to make racing, it was not really popular in Italy. After I discovered it was, three producer from Lange to start to grow reasoning, almost thirty years ago. Now, of course, it's a little bit more training because some producers start to grow, but I think it's important with the riesling to grow in fresh environment. And for this reason, it is important to have altitude. Absolutely. And have you been opening any of your old bottles of riesling, I should say, because I love aged riesling. So I'm curious to know where where it's heading, what direction it goes. I opened just yesterday night, with some friend in Gankona, our recent, two thousand sixteen, but we opened also a few months ago, two thousand nine, and Of course, I have to say if the cork do a good job because at some time, people can make a good wine, but after the cork have too much oxygen in the wine. But, anyway, I feel the potential of a very good aging of resinging from our area. Well, why can't we to see it's it's progression. We actually have a question from somebody who's in our audience, a member of our IWA community, John, and he wants to know, have you seen the international markets embracing varieties like Nachetta, or is it mostly for for local production, local consumption? I think we have a very, very good advantage because, NASchetta is born from Barolo area. For this reason, many producer of, NASchetta, they make us to Barolo. Many of our reporter know by the barolo, but if they try also, Nacheta, for this reason, I feel, also we have a group, like, it's not a consortium, but it's a a group of, producer of Nacheta. We do some event, and we work some with some international man journalists. I have to, to be honest, I'm very happy to see considering, it's less than half a million bottle of production in total. Many people, especially US, or also in, North, Europe, they know, Nashita. Fours in Italy is a little bit more developed the market, but, I'm surprisingly, I have to say, many, many, many, forty nine people known asheta, yeah, so you're saying there's already kind of some brand recognition among the producers. So people are willing to to try even a variety. Maybe they haven't heard of yet. Yeah. Because they have more opportunity, of course. Yeah. And we have another question from another IWA community member whose name is Luis and he wants to know, well, he's comments that they actually do very well with Nashita in the state of Florida where he resides. So do you have distribution in Florida? We have a distribution in Florida. Yes. We have an importer. Based close to Miami. He import some Moseta, import Alta, import Alanga, import La Biolo, San Barolo, and Riesling. Yeah. This is very great news if you live in Florida. Okay. Back to Biola, more specific how do you see the future of of winemaking in Barolo and what challenges and also what opportunities do you foresee for small producers like yourself? Well, I think winery like us is the majority in the area. It's the most representative, in terms of number of labels to do the direct management of the vineyards and, winemaking. And, I think what we have to do or what we can do is continue to respect it, to do everything, to protect or respect the the vineyard to continue to have a strong and deep personality in our wine because of the unique way to characterize what we do. And I think it was really interesting when I was with you last week that you said, you know, a lot of people talk about how how is the next generation gonna change Barillo? And you said, you know, there's not we don't have to change it just for the sake of change. You guys have figured out how to do some things really well, and then there's also the opportunity to be curious and experimental like you have. Absolutely. I think it's important to be curious, to become temporary, is not necessary to do big changing. It is important to be adaptable to the dis the situation to growing up. It's important to never follow the trend style, but to continue to keep the character of what we do because we have a classic. Yes. A singular place for for making wine. Exactly. We actually have a follow-up question from Luis about your riesling. So back to your riesling. He wants to know how does it compare aromatically to German riesling? It is possible to recognize, well, the character or the varietal characters. The reason from Pitmont is always a little bit more powerful because we have more full body because we have lies in the limestone soil in the German. They have a more, stone And the wine is more lean. We are a little bit more full body. The reason why it's not necessary for us to have a lot of residual sugar. We do just three four five gram residual sugar. And, automatically, it looks, sometime more like, Altrian and little bits from, false, or from, mister Rain. Interesting. And you also mentioned that the reason why you keep residual sugar is more for the preference of, of your consumers. Right? No. It's not for the consumer preferences. It's for the varietal character expression because riesling is very important to keep it just a few, two, three gramm resist or sugar. The expression of the variety, the aromas of riesling is much more as prosive. If it is completely dry, the arms is a little bit more compressed and incomplete. Oh, okay. Thank you for clarifying that. My pleasure. So I think this is a very, very important question because We are all Italian or fans of Italy. What is your favorite? Pemonteza food and wine pairing. This is a and then interesting question because, I repeat what I said the youth last They I always, don't like too much the classic, suggestion from, the old school of Barolo pairing because bit more, wide, wide rabbit or something else is, absolutely, too much marinated, too much aromatic, too much, cooking in too much wine, and he lose a little bit. He covered a little bit the aromas of, I like when it's just, medium rare, red meat just, in a hard grill with, maybe just, with kind of salt in the top, because the ore, one of the most interesting and a iron this from, some, wine dinner, when I travel in some restaurant in the US, and they paired the pasta, the tiring, the egg pasta, with, white on, on red ragu. Because the starch of pasta and the texture of the egg pasta is very interesting, but also the delicate sauce is very respected with the primary fruit and the character of of the the nebula. So we should we should do away with Nabilo and red meat all the time and try something a little more exciting. We can we can start with the pasta and then finish with the red meat. Yeah. Exactly. Those were all the questions that I had for you, and and we got some great questions from the audience. I'm not sure if you have anything else you want to talk about. I think, I talk too much. I don't have anything. No. Not at all. You know, I do have one more question because you're so you're so curious and you're so experimental. So I wanna know if you have any new experiments in the works that we didn't talk about or maybe even any varieties that you wanna experiment with in the future. I have to be careful because my children, unfortunately, they, like to start doing more of in business with us, with me and my wife. They said some years ago, dad, don't do everything. Keep us to do something in the future. And I think it's important to respect, together the idea to take, some idea of my son. It would like to try again to make bullshit or, we stopped five years ago. Now I don't know if we do that, soon or not. Or, my daughter likes to increase the NAShet ice pressure even we do it now for a for a ten month. But I the last, wine I will put in the market, it will be in Rosetta Sanier, and now he's in production, but we never divulge it, and now he's five, harvest. We do that. And I hope I will, release, in the end of the year or the next spring of the two thousand twenty five. But I think we have a lot to do. I would like to come back in the image also to battle a production and not only experimental man with many sparkling and many white, even I believe in everything what I do. Absolutely. And it's really commendable to be able to do all of these different lines so well in a way that is so expressive. So it's one of the reasons why I fell in love with your wines. So complimenty. Thank you very much. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I did wanna mention one more thing really briefly that you are so fortunate that both of your children are very much, want to be involved and to carry this on forward for, with you for you. Yeah. It is, I think there are the experiments in my life to start to work with my children because it's important to to share the idea to have, alright. I start, with myself and after with my wife, and I do almost what I think, without control. Now we are four people to share the idea. This is a I like very much because it's one of the best satisfaction of, the parents to have the children to follow the job, but it's also hard to to work together by the time is a is a is the mostly challenging situation, you know, I like to do that. And your daughter is working harvest in Australia right now. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. She's in Australia for three months since we'll be we'll come back in, end April. Well, good for her. Australia is a is a wonderful place too. Yeah. It's funny. You know, day by day now. She's tired, but happy to have this experience. Is she her first harvest or has she done harvest with you? I'm sure. Yeah. She did her first harvest after god waited. In two thousand twenty two. Last year, we did the ARvest in in Burgundy in two thousand twenty three and now here, and after she said, now after I will stay home to work Okay. And, and the sun, he is a very, very happy to work in the vineyard. And after he traveled around, it will be two weeks in, Nebraska, in Iowa to promote wise, Yeah. That's the beauty of of making wine. You can sit in a tractor in the hills of Barrola one day, and the next day you can be across across the planet selling wine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's what I did all together in myself, three years ago, but Well, again, I want to thank you so much for your time and your knowledge and your expertise. It's been such a treat to to talk to you and to learn more about the area through you. And and again, just to celebrate how fantastic, your wines are. Hi. It's it's me. I'm thankful to you to give me this opportunity. Apologize for, all the people who heard this interview for, try to understand my Piedmont is English. And, my expression are very particular, but, I hope, if they can travel in, in language to visit us and we can taste the wine directly in our testing room or to see the vineyards and everything. Absolutely. Where can they find you? Can they book online? Should they email you? They they hang on the website, and after the k e may last, is a form to book the testing or, they can send an email. We can give all the information, about, what we can do. That's wonderful. Well, I hope lots of people go out to find you. I was just there actually last week, and I can I can vouch that it's one of the most beautiful places I've I've ever been? They'll be very, very well. Thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email IFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and public costs until next time.