Ep. 1844 Tanya Morning Star interviews Luca Formentini | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pots. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and it Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Clubhouse Ambassador Cornerers. So today is our one hundred thirty fifth episode on Clubhouse. So we've been doing this for around more than two years now. So that's really amazing. And for today, we have Tanya morning star, and she will be interviewing Luca for maintaining from Selva Capusa of Lucana. So, hi, Tanya. How are you doing today? Good morning, Leica. Hi, everybody. I'm happy to be here from Seattle. Wow. What time is it now there in Seattle? It's eight thirty three in the morning. Oh, good morning. Good morning. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for making time and, you know, doing this clubhouse early in the morning. So, yes. I'm drinking coffee, not wine. Okay. Disclaimer. We got that. We got that. Okay. So I so happy that you're back. I remember you interviewed Donna Tell, and also Ricardo Katarelli as well before. Those are very amazing guests. So thanks so much for introducing them to us. And now We have Luca Formini. Before I give you over the the floor, I would like to introduce you again to the audience. First, Tanya, morning stars, full time wine educator with three decades of experience. Her school seller use is the approved program provider for wine scholar Gilled certifications. She holds many high level certifications. She's an approved WEST instructor of l one to l four Clariculums. Also an Italian Ambassador of bourgogne wines. Is it correct? Yes. I'm an Ambassador of bourgogne wines. Excess. Bourgogne. Okay. Okay. I I was like, working. If it's French or Italian, or then I didn't pronounce it right. We're going. Dabble in French wine too. Yes. Okay. And also, official Champagne educator. She's also the official global educational ambassador of or via the wines of Minneapolis Academy Italian wine Ambassador and was awarded French wines scholar educator of the year. So tour studies, Sarbonne and New York University, coupled with her extensive independent research and travels, Tanya became interested in the intersection of food, wine history, and cultural identity representing the fulcrum of her work. She has taught wine history at the college level, and online for eleven years and has created a dynamic online wine history course focusing on the old broad. She enjoys. She leads joyous rigorous, immersive, educational, food, and wine tours in Italy and France and is also brought to be a mentor and an industry leader of DNI. Today, why did you select Luca Formantini? Luca is definitely one of my favorite producers. And I'll say that in the time that I've known Luca and his wines. I've witnessed Luca and his tireless commitment to community and our planet. I often say that wine is a collaboration of people and nature over time, and Luca takes responsibility for his place within that, which I really, really love. He's a champion of both preservation protection and experimentation, which is what I really embodies for me. The best that we could be, actually. So that means he's not pedantic in his approach. One great example is that his winery was named most sustainable winery in Italy by the important Italian publication, correare de la But his winery doesn't have an organic certification. So he doesn't seek, to follow any dogma when it comes to validation for his quest to make authentic wines of place. And this is This this is what attracts me, really. He is an advocate for preserving grape varieties and traditions. And as I mentioned before, he he really takes responsibility in a very thoughtful way in that quest. One thing I'll brag about him, although I could brag about many, for him. Since he's a very humble person and probably won't. He was instrumental in the creation of one of Italy's smallest DOCs or the or the preservation and and creation of San Martino de la Bercalia in, which is completely encased within the lugana DOC area. But features a different grape for any that I think we might talk about a little bit later. And so, Lucas, he's humble. He's inquisitive, in pursuing his imagination towards respect and curiosity and his work. So those are values that I really align with. I I could go on, but these things are basically Yes. I am actually very intrigued now to really listen through your conversation later with Luke because of the the reasons that you have are really deep, actually. And also, I I wanted to understand later, like, his philosophy in terms of his point making and also in preserving his, vineyards as well. So I wanted to ask, when was the first time you tried his wines? I was trying to remember the date, but I think it was about eight years ago. Luca, at the time, I was teaching at a local analogy college, and he was traveling through for I don't recall exactly. Maybe it was some kind of trade event. And he taught a master class at the college where I was faculty. And so I had a chance to taste his wines And I'm gonna tell a little story later about how from that day I discovered something surprising about Luganna wine a couple years later, so I'm gonna put a dot dot dot there. Okay. Okay. I'm happy to say that, you know, eight years later, we find ourselves still in conversation around what identity in Italian wine means. And that conversation that's been going on for these years has been influential and important to me. And I'm next month. I'm bringing fifteen curious scholars of wine to his area and we're gonna stay at his property and have that be our our home base for a an exploration of the wines of an appylations that exist around Lake Garda. Wow. That's amazing. And that's really nice. And let me know how it goes. By the way, before I proceed to give you the floor, since we also have our ambassadors here, of course, I know that they're very geeky, and they wanna know more about the learning objectives of this conversation. So, really, what I wanna do is I wanna share Luca with you guys and his special perspective. And, really, that's it. So I'm gonna ask him questions that, pertain to his, philosophy and perspective around winemaking and, being a human being and how those things connect. Okay. Okay. So, yes, now I I'm going to meet myself, and I leave the floor to you and Luca. Okay. Hi, Luca. Oh, yeah. Hello, Tanya. Hello, everybody, and thank you for having me here. I'm so happy that you are here, and I wanna introduce you, formally so that people can understand a little bit more about you and set that up for understanding your perspective and your work. So Luca's winery Salvakapusa is in the lugana Diosi, but he produces, several different appalachians of wine. Luca is also a music composer who I admire quite a bit in addition to being a wine producer who has followed his family heritage through his, business, which is actually on a very historical site for, the history of Italy. His activities are focused on a strong interest in relationship to the natural environment, and this connection and how it really surrounds us as people and our inner life. So the natural environment connected with our inner life This attitude has brought him to connect with sustainability since the beginning of his professional path in the Wayne business. And as a concept, also, that informs his approach to his music. So those things are connected. As a wine producer, he's dedicated, always part of his time to serving with associations in the protection and promotion of appalachians and territories. We know that those as the consortium right? So the wine boards of Italy. So he served for two terms, I think. If that's correct me if I'm wrong, Luca, as the president of the lugana consortium. And during that time, actually, I watched Luca very tirelessly devote himself to that work. His wines have many awards. They're delicious and vibrant and energetic each in their own unique way in my experience. And he's known for having engaging in philosophical debates around nature and wine, and in particular around infrastructure, one example would be, so this is, you know, political debates in fact, around the high speed trains, for example, and their impact on the fragile territories. And how farmers should regard biodiversity as a productive tool. So Luca's engaging as a culture maker as I would put it, in his community and a promoter of circular economy or a holistic and individual approach to sustainability. So this is Luca. Welcome. Well, Tanya. Thank you so much. I I hope that I will be able to to make the expectations that your word have created. And, but thank you for for having touched the the the most important parts of my journey in, in the wine production and the in the wine business. Thank you so much. Thank you. So I'm gonna start with a short question. It's a very open question. And and you don't have to you can answer it in long form, or you can just, you know, pick a couple of words. It can be kind of like a tableau painting or it can be, lyrical, so to speak. But what would you say if you could pick an element that is the most rewarding for you and your work in wine? What is the, an element that is the most rewarding for you? I would say that I had the luck to meet many, many important and very rewarding times in, during my thing. I think it's thirty and something years. I'm doing this job. And, they're all related to, the way that wine can give a positive result on, on the landscape, on, on, on the nature that surrounds us. So, whenever I have the feeling that, what I do can give something good back to the land, which allows us as winemakers to produce our product. I always feel like this is the most important thing that, I can I can get from the, the work I'm doing? So it can be encouraging my colleagues and encouraging my staff to, to be more sensitive, when it comes about sustainability, trying to find new ways and, personal ways to make it in, in place, to make it work, or trying to preserve, because I I'd very much like when you, Tanya, told these two words, which is one side, the protection, and on the other side, it's the experimentation. This are already, the two folks which creates the, the energy, which is, behind what we are trying to do at Sabakapusa. So to answer to your question, whenever what we do, brings a positive result to the place, then I feel that we're doing something good. This is creating my the energy that I need to to do this job every day. Of course, selling a bottle of wine is essential but it's not enough to make me want to wake up with the the kind of energy that, that makes my, contribution in the wine world more deep and more, meaningful, I think. Excellent. I think that's gonna set us up for to have some fun with the next questions. So Luca's winery Salva Capusa is located in the lugana DOC as I mentioned. And so I wanna talk about lugana first. And so I guess along the line of your commitment and relationship with nature, I'll ask what your philosophy around interacting with the specific nature of the terroir of lugana would be. And how, I guess, the second part would be, what does the doc mean to you within lugana? And how does that help you to express your point of view? So your philosophy around how you interact with that terroir and then how the description of that serves you and your point of view in white making. First of all, let me tell you that, I think I was really lucky to have my family's company settled in in this area, in the Uganda area. Not just because it's a beautiful part of the word because it's an intersection between the ops and the the plan. We are close to very beautiful towns and, very close to the high mountains, very close to the seas. And, we have, the largest Italian lake, right, four kilometers north of us. So, these are already many, many elements that makes it that are making it special, but working with, this kind of soil and with this kind of grapes is making this even more special because we're working with indigenous grape varieties. We're working with, a very fascinating, kind of soil because it has, a very in triggering history, which is making it very unique. This blend of clay, and stones, and, the, the presence of these natural elements like the winds coming from the the odds cold in the morning and, reversing in the opposite direction in the afternoon. And those winds are having it totally different temperature compared to the ones, which are flowing from the from the ops, of course. So combined with, with indigenous grape variety, this is really making this kind of job easier. In a way. So, I I think that this is a very lucky area. So the the best we can do, which probably connects to the, to the other part of your question, is expressing this identity in the most bright and clean possible way. I remember I'll, you know, I feel blessed to have walked, you know, the vineyards in the area with you and, you know, asked questions and held discussion around the meaning of the different things that we could witness with our senses, right, including the wind and the stones and the clay and and the great varieties, etcetera, etcetera. But I I remember you showing me some really big stones on your property. And talking about the dramatic kind of creation of this landscape as, you know, ten thousand years ago, the the glaciers pulling back and creating these deep lakes, you know, which then create the wind and, you know, through their own ecosystem and leaving behind not only the clays, but small and small stones, but in some cases, huge stones that had been deposited that had an origin very, very, you know, miles and miles and miles away in what would maybe be, you know, Switzerland now. Right? Yeah. And so there's it's a very dramatic truth, actually, that includes elements that are very that are historically local and also elements that are historically alien if we can, you know, use that word. And it's fascinating. And it's it's emotional when you're there. Oh, yes. Very much so. I totally agree with you, and I'm always happy when people visiting this place are having the chance to connect with this emotional size of, of the being here. Because, you know, many times, being in such a beautiful landscape can bring people not paying attention to what's behind this beautiful landscape because it's so fulfilling the lake, the olives, and the nature, and, on these hills is that, in a way, it's already a lot, that you're getting. But when you're able to to slow down a bit and to connect with different ways of, with different layers of the perception that you can have while you're visiting a place like this, then emotions are engaging. And these emotions for me are very, very important because I think that this is the layer where I wanted to connect when I invite people to to meet our wines and to get close to what we're doing here because it's not just what we're doing, but it is how we are doing it, which makes it a difference. I'm I love what you just said and I it definitely connects to some things we're gonna talk to a little bit later and the but I think that your orientation really belies your existence as an artist. Right, that you value the emotions that the people who interact with your wine and your territory experience. And I definitely find your wines to be emotional. And that brings me well to the next question, which is, I guess so from a straightforward point of view, I wanna talk about how lugana Wine is emotional, is in a sense, both in its youth, potentially what What do you wanna tell people about that emotional experience of of lugana, DOC wine in its youth? And then maybe also as it develops because we know that, lugana wine really can age very well. So what is the unique experience of pleasure? Yeah. Honestly, it was something that really surprised us producers a few years ago when we started noticing that, those old bottles of dogana that we, were finding in, in some corners of our, of our wineries, were were delivering, delivering really surprising results, not just by chance. So it was not a specific vintage, which was, able to show that Ligana with, over ten years, spending a bottle was still able to tell something interesting to, to the person who was opening that bottle. We started noticing that this, potential was, was, was in the in in the variety and in the combination, of course, between the variety, the kind of salt, the microclimate climate, and and the way that, this combination of things is interpreted by the, the the the producers. And then we became a little bit more, conscious that what was known, to be, a great wine to drink young when it's fresh is actually, hiding a potential, which was, very, very important to, to explore. And, and so we began to, first of all, to keep some more bottles, away so that, we could open them after a few years to to to read, how they developed during that time. And, and then we became more conscious about the fact that we could save some wine or better, identify some specific vignas and keep those grades apart, making a a separate winemaking, let's focus on being able to deliver a wine ready in a few months, but allowing them to to have all the time which is needed to become more consistent and focused. And and that was the time when, we lugana producers became aware of, the importance of showing whenever we can that Ligana is a wine, which is not afraid of time, which is actually a wine in which time plays a very, very, important and positive, rogue, which is sometimes difficult to to to show when you have a wine, white wine, especially, which is able to be interesting even after six or eight months after the harvest. You wouldn't expect it. But this is this is what Turbana is able to deliver. So, Luca, I have, I have my own experience of this. As you know, I've told you this story, but I'll share this story here. On the podcast, that when you came to teach the class at the Enology school where I was, teaching at the time, some of the bottles didn't get used. And a couple years later, maybe it was, like, five years later, I was teaching an advanced course on Italian wines, and I was looking through my my cellar to figure out what wines to use. And I found a bottle of the, Minnesota, which is your your top crew. And I think the vintage was two thousand nine, if that sounds about right, that what you brought to us. And litter it was probably two thousand seventeen when I was teaching and pulled this bottle out. So here we are eight years later. Right? I opened it in class, not kind of knowing what to expect, and it was so surprising and moving. And everybody just was fascinated with this wine, you know, an Appalachian that no one in the classroom had ever heard of before. And here we have a, you know, a wine that's almost ten years old, but it was just so energetic and so, It had a still a lot of brightness and youthfulness to it and yet layers of complexity that were beginning to, you know, tertiary characteristics that were beginning to really own themselves, so to speak. And one of the things that I found fascinating about tasting old this older wine, is that Tourviana ends up having some Although it's an it's a neutral, non aromatic grape variety. There was a a kind of a petrol quality that some people would associate with aged riesling and also then some similarities to the way that white Borgoni wines age, actually, and Chardon me. Two of, of course, the world's favorite wines to seller. Right? And of course, Tourbrianna is its own character, but sometimes it when we compare lesser known wines to, you know, wines that everybody in the world automatically values, it helps people to make an association. So I don't mean to take away your identity by making those comparisons, but, instead, I hope to augment them because it really was true. And a wonderful experience. So I would say, you know, if that was my experience nine years after your harvest, I could go another nine or ten and find out what's gonna happen next. I think that we would find something good. I don't think the wine would be dead in twenty years at all. No. Don't know at all. And thank you for making those, disconnections with, you know, to be compared to to such important, appalachians and, and grape varieties, which have, you know, they concentrate such a, a long experience for many producers in many different areas. We are we are very small. We are very small. So to be compared or not compared the connected, to those is just something which can just make a lugana producer very happy and proud. And so thank you for that. And and yeah, the the thing that is, that that began to happen a few years ago, I would say like twenty, fifteen years ago, was that after finding that those lugana wines, which have been produced, by thinking that today, were going to be, served, after, well, let's say in, in two years after the, the production, after that we noticed how well and how surprisingly they were able to, to grow in, in a bottle. We began to be more confident and, to, as I was saying, to produce specific organa wise, that could have more, you know, just structure, but energy. To face more years to come. And now we have the lugana wise, especially those under the the specific, character of the POC, which is lugana Riselda, which are showing this, they're still as a very small part of the full production of the epilation, but they are able to bring the name lugana in those places where the the expectation over a white wine, which has more than five, six, seven years is very, very hot. And, and I think that, as you say, having a very small production area and, totally obscure, gray variety is, at this time, is making them even more interesting. Because, you know, we we we are living in the in the times at least. I I feel I I've been living the times where talking about an unknown Graver Adi, was, like, saying, okay, if it is unknown, it means that it doesn't deserve to be known. So until a few years ago, talking about something which is not famous or a small indigenous variety, a small production, was not gaining a lot of interests was not attracting for for many, people in Italy and out of Italy. I thought that since a few years, this this has changed dramatically in a very positive way where when you talk about something which is not known as, a one production area and appalachian or a gray variety, usually there's the audience which reacts like saying, oh, that's interesting, and gives you the chance to show what you are producing has been growing. A lot. And I think that this has a lot to do with what you guys are doing because, you are creating people who are more confident about their own taste. And and this is what we need to preserve the identity of the small productions and to, as winemakers, to be allowed to push the limits a little bit higher of what we are doing. Thank you, Luca. I love, that you make that connection between people like me, educators, and people like you, producers because we really are engaged in in a collaborative work together, you know, it and that's how I see it. That's how I see my work. And I know that the other ambassadors who are on this listening to this interview feel the same way. And so I love that you just call out right away that we're in this together because we are. And one of the things that you said actually makes me wanna skip to a question that I was gonna ask a little later, and this kind of gets to the heart of something broader about Italian wine and it's, and it's bounty of, unique grape varieties. You know, we talk about Torbiana, lesser known grape variety, and often people especially students and scholars and educators like to simplify as much as possible the the reality around all these great varieties, but I personally think that's that oversimplification around grape varieties is a disservice to the identity of the unique wines crafted from them. And I'm gonna say why. Turbiana is considered to be genetically identical to, Verdicchio, which is better known. And in fact, you know, in the w set, in the wine and spirit education trust curriculum on level two, they spend a whole, you know, I I have my slide decks. We get a whole slide for Verdicchio, which can really shock me, but that tells us how important Verdicchio from the market is, important to the British market, in fact. And yet, if you asked people in the marketplace of what they think of Tourbiana, they might not be able to say. However, the genetic expression of this grape is so different. And I would like to pause it, you know, as a historian, my understanding that probably this grape variety was born very close to lugana and not in the Marquis, and its indigenous home. And that farmers from the Veneto in the probably fifteen or sixteenth century after the Black plague when they were migrating and fleeing essentially problems in their own home traveled down to the market and brought this great Friday with them where it found a new home to express itself completely differently. What we know about Vodyspenifera on all its varieties is that it is able to express its genetics differently based on the place that it's grown. And so it doesn't really matter that the genetics are the same. And that's why I say those oversimplifications are not very useful to us to understand identity. Right? So I know that's a lot that I've just said. But you're working with several different grape varieties that have this complex story. You have Turbiana, which, has another, you know, relatives, I'll call them in other parts of Italy. And you have another grape variety that you work with, in your small appalachian, San Martina Delabatalia, and that you call Tuki. Can you tell us a little bit about this question mark? What is to keep? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And thank you. Well, I I deeply admire, Tanya, you and those like you are so much able to connect all what happens between the history of winemaking and, Gravarados and all the migrations. It's always beautiful to listen to these things. And, so thank you for taking the time to to study and to give those important things back to us. So, yes, beside Turbiana, well, first of all, Samacapusa is is placed in a spot four kilometers south of Lagada where we are lucky to be in a small place where the three main populations of the area, they overlap. And, for many years, this was a little bit confusing for me because I was saying, okay. What are we? So are we Lufana? Are we Sanatina? Are we guy the classical? Then I think that I understood that the reason why these three populations overlap here, it's probably showing the the goodness of the of the land or the position we are at. Because essentially, I can choose to, to grow, to have Ligana, or to grow to quay, to have San Mateo de La Bataya, or to grow the combination of the four red grapes, of the lombardy. Well, consider that we are in in Lombardy as a as a region. Ligana is ninety percent in Lombardy and ten percent in, in Vanator region. And we are on the on the Lumber side. And here, we have these three epilations, which are made by six different gravel varieties, two whites, and four reds. And so I I began to feel a little bit different after I got to the point that this, concentration of populations is actually showing that we are in a very interesting area. And, and this has been important for me when I Well, I started to work in, my feminist company, when I was something more than twenty. And, and I was looking for motivation. It was very hard for me at the beginning. The wine business was a totally different thirty, thirty years ago. And, the things we're talking about were, I don't know, science fiction at that time. We were not even close to this kind of, of, level of, discussing about the quality that was the identity and so. But, realizing about how interesting it was this area made me think about the first concept that is behind what we do as Sabakapusa. We grow just our indigenous varieties. We don't have international varietals not because we don't think they're good, but because we are lucky to be in a spot where we have our own indigenous varieties and node blend, which was probably created, like, two hundred years ago, three hundred years ago, which is, the blend, the red blend behind the the classical ablation. And, and so this was so important for me to say, okay, we at Selva Caposa, we are focused on that. Triopylation six different graveyard is. And then it came, all what, what followed in term of, the way that so the how, not just the, the what, but the how you work on this for items. But getting back to the two key in the San Mateo de La Bartalia, that's a beautiful story that kept me awake for many, many, many nights because, at the beginning of my, of my experience in the wine business, the San Latino was, an Appalachian which was risking to disappear. So from being an Appalachian, which was, having almost the same quantity of Venus, the same actors of Ligana, it was risking to disappear because, I don't know how long it takes, but after a few years that no one is, producing an appelation, the appelation is considered to be gun, and it gets canceled. And so for me, when I was a kid, I remember that the San Latino de la Vataja, which at that time was containing the word tokai was the king of the wines of this area for me to to save this from disappearing was the first challenge. And it was, an area in which I tried to put all my, knowledge at play. And, and this is where I found the connection between me as a musician and me as a winemaker with the first, ideas on unsustainability because Campo de Sogio, which is our San Mateo de LaBAa Viosi, is has been the testing area for the sustainability concepts, which I learned for the first time, thirty and something year ago. From a guitar string producer, which name is Natario. And, and so the the San Matrilla was, protected we produced it even when nobody wanted to to drink it because at that time, as I was saying, not to be known was the meaning not to be important. And, being worth to be known. And until the two thousand and eight, when the rule of the European community, the decision that made them protect the name of a production area, which is tokay in Hungary, made them decide that that was worth preserving, and not the name of the Graverati tokay. And this created, a very weird, reaction in Italy, which I strongly criticized because, from trying to solve a problem of, of confusion, between the Tokai as a wine production area in Hungary, and the Tokai as a grape variety in Italy. Instead of making it easier, we, I think, we over complicated it because when in Friori, they decided to give the synonym for Elano they created the the beginning of a stronger confusion because the same grape variety was changing the name depending on the region. And so Friolano is in Freioli. Thai is in Veneta, and in two thousand and eight, we were the only producer of San Matino Delabatalia. So the ministry of agriculture didn't decide for a synonym, which could allow us to describe on the back label this wine is produced by this grape variety. So just for fun, I decided to put a question mark on the back label. And, the first question mark was, was really sub very, very subtle because it was something that it was between me and all this weird Italian way of managing this problem. And, but this question, Mark attracted a lot of attention on the appalachian. And, people began to talk about this, why with no name, this, why, which has been, deprived of, the the grave variety name, And as a result, more producers in the area began to produce some Matino Delabatalia again. And so after, I would say, probably twenty years of, a production which was going more and more down. After two thousand and nine, two thousand and ten, the production of Sanatino Dela Bakata began to rise again so that, now we have ten producers of this operation. For me, this has been one of the most beautiful things, which can happen, to a wine producer, was, concerned about giving something back to the land which is allowing him to do his job. I love how you interact with the kind of the definition of identity and ask the question, who are we what do we do with the things that we know about ourselves. Right? How do we communicate that? Those are, I think, brave and important questions to ask. I love to observe the way that you pose those questions and to me, that is, culture making, right, engaging in, the evolution of of culture of your place. So thank you for doing that. And this I'm I'm gonna just make a little statement and then ask you another question that I think connects to all these to your approach. But I wanna just point out that Luca's wines, in my estimation, each of the different wines represents some kind of different goal. Experimentmentation. You have experimental wines, which could fall into the natural wine category, that would be Noula. We don't have time to talk about all these wines, but I just wanna name them humanitarianism as one of your goals, and that would be through the your, Garda classico, if you're red wine, Donat. Yeah. And cultural stewardship, which we've been talking about, through your work in San Martina, San Martino Delabatalia, and through the bottling of your crew, lugana wines, and and lugana Rosarva. Right? I don't think we have time to talk about all the wines, but Maybe you wanna just tell us a little bit about the do not. I think that's an exciting story. The humanitarian is humanitarianism being the the goal that it's expressed through that wine. Yeah. And, and you know how much difficult it is sometimes for me to talk about that. Because this I've seen a few tears on your cheek. I've seen a few tears on your cheek. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, because, again, when I was a kid, well, first of all, if you come visit the area, you will, for sure, notice, an important landmark landmark, which is, a toll tower which was built, at the end of the eighteenth century in eighteen eighty nine. Thirty years after the Battle of Sanatino Solfir, you know, the Battle of Sanatino Solfir, you know, has been, one of the most most important battles for the unification of Italy. And, and, it was, unplanned, an unplanned fight against two other two hundred and eighty five thousand soldiers of three different armies. That was, Franciosa from hunger from Oscar and Hungary on one side, and, Victoria Manuel secundo and Napoleon on the other side, who were together trying to push the oceans out of Northern Italy. And, in this battle, was, so cruel, so so heavy that, well, someone say thirty thousand, some others say forty thousand people were killed. And the same day, twenty fourth of June eighteen fifty nine. But the thing is that during the six months after the battle, as a forty thousand people died of the injuries, there was a man whose name was Haritano who was, here by chance because he was just trying to talk to Napoleon for some personal business, and he arrived here the day after this massacre. By seeing what was happening, You can imagine this disaster, this human disaster in the middle of nothing because at that time, these was was just an area for some farms and, and some crops, but the there were no hotels or and, and all the things that you find here. This man began to think that, after a soldier has been injured, he has to be considered like your brother. So he from this idea, he developed the concept that brought to the creation of the International Red Cross. The thing that almost everybody visiting that tower, I remember when I was a kid, was getting out of that tower knowing everything about who won who was, at the head of which, army and, what did the soldiers do and so on. But they didn't know that that thing created In my point of view, one of the most revolutionary ideas of the human kind, because in eighteen sixty three, Ariuno was able to create the institution of the Red Cross, which was putting human beings in the center without regarding any race, any rank in the army, without regarding any age, anything. And and I think that we have to take the chance for the few bottles of wine that we are producing to always remember this. Because this was a single person without internet, without telephone, without anything. And we all know what is the importance of, this institution. And and so twenty years ago, probably something more. I tried to get in touch with the International Red Cross in Geneva asking for the permission to name a wine after Anri Duang. And they told me, look, we are in the international restaurants. You should ask to the foundation. How you do not? I've been trying to to get in touch with the foundation, but at that time, the international restaurants was not considered as it is now or since ten, fifteen years. And, so nobody replied to me. Now, I would say that after since five years, we have been allowed to have the original signature of our re do not on the first document in which he has been writing about is this idea on our label. And this signature was, offered to us from the historical museum of the International Rat Cross, which is just a few kilometers from here. I love this bottle. It's it's such a beautiful wine, and, we could talk about this story so much more. But we are kind of coming to the end of time. And there there were other things that I everybody who's listening, you know, we could come on again and keep talking. And so you can tell that there's so many fun things to discover here. The last question I was gonna ask was about, weaving your philosophy as a as an artist and a composer into your work, but I think we've already started to, feel that from you. I wanna just mention something that I hopefully will talk about in another interview, the concept of the sleep concert, or having p inviting people to sleep in your vineyards in a passive, you know, experience. That's another kind of a amazing beautiful thing Luca's doing. But I have just one question I wanna I am able to ask you before we leave. So I'm just alluding to some of those other exciting things that could be discussed. This is important to me as a feminist and as a person who knows your Exquisite daughter who's the same age as my son. She's followed in your footsteps as a as a musician. She's studying music. But our wine industry, of course, is super male dominated and needs innovative, creative women. Do you have any idea that, your daughter might fall also fall in your footsteps and your wine business? Well, she is, well, she lives in the middle of Venus, and, I did my best to make her have the most serene approach with with wine. So that, I didn't want her to feel like this is just a job or this is, Yeah. I I I I really tried to do my best to make it very neutral. And, I never invited her to drink a wine. I tried to understand from her highest issue was curious. To smell it and to sip it. And then, of course, I was open, but I net I never tried to to push her to do that. I've asked this question, Tanya, during the summer. And I've realized that at this time, She is very much engaged by music. But this is what happened to me. So but now I'm I'm fifty six almost, and I'm still doing blind. I'm also doing the music. But if you ask me that question, when I was seventeen, I wouldn't have told you that I was, going to be a one producer. I think that, there is still time. And my job as, as a parent, as a father is to sustain her and, to to help her to to listen to herself. And, and I will do my best to support any kind of decision that, she will take. And I will never, never make her feel embarrassed Mhmm. The if she will decide not to do that. I love that. You're a good father. But I can tell, you know, the way that in the summertime, she walks barefoot always in the vineyards, that her connection is strong. So, you know, we don't have to force our children into anything. That calling will happen to her maybe through the soles of her feet. We'll see. Oh, that's been so wonderful to, share with you today and share actually with the world today this interview with you, Luca. Thank you. So much. I look forward to our next conversation. Oh, thank you so much for your time because I really appreciate that all of you had been spending the time with, with me and, with Tanya. Thank you, Tanya, because You are very important source of, of energy for for me, for what we're doing here. And, and I hope that more white producers will have the the luck to meet people like you who can really push them to be brave and to not always go for the easy way, but sometimes, dedicate some of their time and energies to go for the most well, to the not always easy directions that a winemaker can decide to follow. Thank you. Okay. Thank you so much guys for your time. I'm sorry. I have to cut this because we been more than one hour, but it was really a really a great conversation. I I I really enjoyed. And I'm so I really wanna hear more about the music and wine, and maybe we can do a part two who knows well. Okay. So maybe, I'll let you know guys. I have to I have to ask Steve because I really look forward to the second part. So anyway, yes. And before I end this day, this call, so the next clubhouse is going to be on Thursday with Elena Baratini, and she will be interviewing Christian Spekonia from Fuly. So goodbye, and bye, everyone. Thanks for listening. Ciao. Thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, chi qing.