Ep. 1864 Joan Harnish interviews Elisabetta Foradori | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pots. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and it Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everybody. My name is Stevie Kim, and welcome to the ambassador's Kona. Today's host is, of course, Joan Harnish, and her guest today is Elizabeth Fradore. So, Joe, where are you calling from? I'm calling from Spain. What are you doing lately in Spain? Oh, all sorts of stuff. Right now, I'm actually I'm doing some consulting still for corporate events. And, I'm studying the Spanish wine scholar on the side to see if I can get through that. Uh-huh. You're betraying us. Oh, it's always an educational event. Okay. And, yes, between that, I'm I'm very busy and, get back to the states as often as I can as well, see the family, and, yeah, doing well. Thanks. Yeah. She has a beautiful family for those of you who are less familiar, Joan is, as you can tell by her accent, very American, very California, and she's been living in Spain for some time now because I believe your husband is a Spaniard. Right? Yes. He's from Barcelona. Yes, ma'am. Correct. Yeah. What's his name? Juan Manuel. Yeah. Juan Juan. Yes. My daughter talks about Juan, the kind of family. Oh, she's so sweet. Yeah. You are kind enough to host my daughter for for a few months, and she was so, so grateful. Thank you for doing that again. She, you have a children of your own three, I believe. Yes. And I do. Correct. And, yeah. So I know what it's like to have a big family and be busy and try to do it all at once. So I met Joan while I was, engaged. I had this great ambition of doing the w said diploma in roost during the pandemic. That's when I met her, but of course, she finished the course and I had to get back to reality and do, you know, get back to my real life. And but more importantly, she has become our Italian wine ambassador through the Vineital International Yes. Academy course. And here on my show note, I see that you're a climate change activist. What does that mean? You bet. Oh, I just think it's very important. They were all completely, involved in what's going on with climate change. We need to be more forward thinking in what we're doing as a a global community and come together because this is what's in front of us. And I believe one of your children very actively involved in this Rain. Yes. My youngest, she's an environmental scientist. She studied in Santa Barbara at the university, and she's actually the one that really keeps us going on this and, educates a lot of people around the globe on it. It's such an important thing that we all need to be involved in. And I think people realize kind of what's going on, but they don't step into it and actively participate in how we're gonna make this better. So, yeah. It's really an important topic in today's reality. And where we're going. So, Joan, I was so excited to find out that you were hosting Eliza Veradore today because, we everyone loves her at the office in our Italian wine community. And, of course, I don't realize who's the guest until the day exactly when our before when I look at the show notes. So thank you for doing that. But why did you select Elizabeth Feradori to be on the call today? Well, you know, again, getting back to, you know, climate, change, and all that kind of stuff. With biodynamics, we really step it back into the traditional approach and and what they're doing in in in their vineyards with the Viticulture, and I just really respect her approach. She's very steadfast in her approach to Viticulture and with nature and everything she's doing. And I I traveled quite a bit throughout Aldo Aleger coming to and from Spain to Ruust in Austria and had a chance to get to know the wines a bit. I'd never had a chance to visit her vineyard. We will make that happen. That's how I I became involved in in following her and reading about her, and we met recently in Spain because she was receiving a a Prize and award in Faustette in the Priorat. And, it was just lovely to see her and and to meet her and taste the wines with everyone. And so I'm really looking forward to this interview. So, actually, foradori is located not in Octoa dige, but Trentino. I know this because I have actually a house just above her Beautiful. Winery on the very top. So I went to see her. She wasn't there at one Christmas because I never go to that area, but luckily I saw her son at the time pretty young still at the time, but she's located just below. So as you know, we get a little bit geeky here. What are the learning objectives that we should expect from you today after the school? Okay. Well, thinking about this. I think we should be able to understand the meaning and depth and practices of biodynamic agriculture, and we should be able to understand the wisdom and philosophy of Elizabeth in her vineyards, as well as, finally understanding what she Elizabeth and her family do at the winery to give value and respect to the land, their native grape varieties, and other sources of nature. Yeah. And don't forget to ask her about her cheese making. Mhmm. That's in here. That's in here as well. Alright. So what I'm going to do is leave you to alone. So I'm going to pass over the mic to you over to you, but I will come back towards the end to see if there are any questions. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Stevy. Lovely talking to you. Okay. Speak to you later. Okay. Okay. Well, let me first, start out with a little, background to Elizabetha, and then we'll get into, the, the questions for the interview. But, first, I'll start out, is one of Italy superstar women biodynamic winemakers. Her vineyards are are one of the most historical and respected wineries in Italy, and they're surrounded by the Northern Italy mountains and their landscapes, specifically the Tyrellian alps and dolomites, a region rich in native varieties and diverse terroir. They cultivate, the ancient native variety of Teroldigo and pinot grigio on alluvio soils, of the Camporo Taliano in Nociolla and Mancione Bianco on the Calcareous clay hills of Cornelola. It is in these beautiful vineyards where Elizabetha and her family produce some of Italy's most complex deep and captivating biodynamic wines. Biodynamic Viticulture is a holistic practice that weaves together agricultural wisdom, spiritual philosophy, and ecological harmony In the green lush Tyrolyn Yalves of Tarantino, where the vines form trellis trellises of cosmic energy and celestial rhythm, a unique approach to winemaking takes root, which is the topic of our interview today. The Foredodori family biodynamic Viticulture. Guided by the principal set forth by Austrian Rudolphsteiner, here, the winemaker, Eliseveda Foredodori coexists with earth, fine, and the cosmos. Oh, so so wonderful that you can be here and share your time with us. I have to thank everybody. I'm very happy to be here. Try to to give you all the patience and, what's what's going on and what's going on in our winery or farm in the last time. Yes. Oh, good. Wonderful full. Well, tell you what, why don't we dive into the questions and we'll get going? Okay. Well, Elizabeth, how do you how did you first become interested and involved in biodynamic Viticulture? But, actually, it was late in the late ninety. I was running the winery. As a younger woman, I started yeah. I started I was twenty years old. And my my study was very simple in Viticulture and analogies in a very traditional way. But on a certain point, it was like, missing me, the connection of something which it is not really I cannot describe this, but anyway, I was on searching a way to more connection with the agriculture into the transformation from the grape into wine. And my husband, at the time, Ryan Ociro, he was always speaking about goatee and all the terry of the plant, And from that, I landed into Rudolfiner's theory, and practical say I was, visiting a lot of, I mean, the my my my I was fully in love with the, Mark cried and vice at the time, which was an it is an l in El Paso, and he was practicing biodynamic in the late in eighty. Mhmm. So he was it was my first time posting and denamization of the prepay rate, and I was completely this changed my life. This and and then I started very quickly in two year, all the farm was which was convention at the time, was I was changing everything into Biden now. With it was not easy, but it was, a rebirth in some way. Okay. I understand when you say it's hard to understand what you really mean, but it's almost like your your feet are magnetized into the earth. You're being pulled into something natural. Correct? It was more than only natural. It was like to find this part of the unknown or what I didn't learn at the school. It was like a very extensive feeling, which there is much more than only a vineyard, a farm, more what we have to approach in some way Mhmm. To to connect our daily life. This doing into observe, look at feeling, look at the plant, look at the animal, to to find a different way to make agriculture. So be prepared for a change. Exactly. I and I mean, in the in the daily life of our work as pharma. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. I understand. Because it seems like a lot of people, you know, may ask the question, well, what do you you know, in terms of organic, natural sustainability, etcetera, what do you do in the vineyard? But, if I understand, correct, and I think it's something that we all need to go forward, it's not only what we do in our work or our business, but What do we do in our daily lives outside of that? And that consistency and that congruency to that is so important. How does, biodynamic approach in the vineyard impact winemaking in the cellar? It's a big impact, but but I wanted to say that by the name. It's not only about replacing agrochemicals by natural means. Correct. It it is also about shaping the environment, you know? Sure. The living word, Exactly. Develop balance. We don't only think in term of nutrient cycle, we also consider the farm an organism. And in this way, it's a question of, which is a little bit abstract, but it's a question of a different energy and vitality that you have at the end in the fruit, and our case is a grape. And biodynamic stop of the fruit. It's not that there is an biodynamic in the cellar. Mhmm. So then there's a human being. We take inspiration and put the feeling and the wine making, in a right way, respecting the energy of the fruit, just to have a bottle at the end, which is a message of the terroir, a pure message of vitality, a healthy, a healthy wine, which can go outside to the people and speak about, and is also part of the nutrition in term of, good energy, which is going into the body of everybody. That's that's the same for for every, I mean, food generally saved, which is Sure. With this method. Exactly. Agriculture is a way it's an a name of a type of agriculture. It's not something abstract or No. Exactly. Magical. We are very cushions which give us a lot of instrument, a lot of different instruments as a normal agricultural practice, which are incredibly useful in what we see in the last time with this, I mean, extremely changed man in the climate, that's been, an extremely climate condition. Rain, or the dry or heat, and So, regarding wine, yes. First, to consider that there is a transformation from the food, like a transformation of the milk and cheese, a fermentation Correct. Which is a life process, which we don't have to control, but we have to be beside and to be in some way part of the transformation. Okay. We into the process, not outside control and make sure that everything I mean, of course, we have to make sure that everything goes into a very good wine, but, it's different to be outside, observe, and control. It will be in some way inside the process and go with this, process to the Exactly. So you're saying almost like minimal intervention, but the transformation within. Exactly. Mhmm. Also transform ourselves in a way as yours. Exactly. And that in fact is just the lineage, from the start of the Viticulture all the way to solving the product, of what you're you're following that transformation through the process, and that's so important. Yes. I mean, we speak about Viticulture, but the same, I mean, it's for for every part of the agriculture, you know. They are the same principle. Of course, wine vineyard wine is is something which spread out in the wood and is a very good ambassador in term of make sure that people start to know this different agriculture, which is very important for the future of the our world. Definitely. And, in at this in these terms, wine is a fantastic ambassador. Exactly. The same principle you can apply to, in your garden or to a potato or an animal and there is no difference in fact. Okay. What is about cultivating a vine is a normal agronomical process. Mhmm. We see with other response with a different responsibility, but, I mean, first is to be a good farmer so that you You can. No. You can practice a good agriculture in terms of the knowledge, you know, which can, of course, is concerning the good, a good improvement of the humus of organic material. Correct. Know, work in the soil and what's in, what's everybody do more or less. And, what well, now talking about soils and and compost, etcetera, my next question for you was what benefit does biodynamic compost have versus organic composting? And some people might not understand exactly what biodynamic compost is and how how it's made. In a simple way, the what we do into a biodynamic farm is to have like a holistic cycle. So all what we produce for the fertility of the soil, comb from the farm. In example, we have the cows, where we have the manure, we use all what we produce, in the venaification, and we it's going to the composting. We also use part of our when we when you prune part of the wood of the wine, And so there is this important point, nothing is coming from outside regarding the fertility of the soil. And the composting of all this organic material is, is done with biodynamic preparations, which are for the compost preparations, are plants which are transformed, and we put it into the compost so that the compost is not really a fertilizing. We don't put tons of compost outside, but the compost is a living, platform. Containing the biodynamic prepared, which goes into the our soil in a very tiny quantity. All the biodynamic practice are based on information, not of quantity. So we speak from five fifty to sixty kilos of comms per hectare, or five gram of the Okay. Biodynamic preparation for Mhmm. Five zero one. So information then stimulate the live process. So Mhmm. It's like a catalizator Yeah. Got it. The process. Yes. It's always in full circle. Everything coming from where your vineyard is, And it's almost again what you were talking about before that transformation that remains in a full circle, which is very natural indeed. Yes. It's the circle of Farfetch. So we live from one main We also make cheese, which are labeled. And but the beautiful part of this work, which I learned in these twenty years and more, is that as a just only a winery, that the wine business, the wine business related of the agriculture is more or less at the top of the agriculture in terms of quality of living, quality of, I mean, economics for a farm. And because you have to go a little bit down, and re regarding the whole system. So you have to do you want to introduce animal. You want to try to introduce other parts of agriculture. So you have to. Mhmm. You you became a completely different perspective. So away from the monoculture vineyard, which, of course, is very important, but the vineyard became a different rule as only produce grape, and umbras understanding of the other part of agriculture, and be related to other farmer, which is an incredible enrichment of your knowledge, which let you see your vineyard with completely different eye. And also your your b wine producer. Because sometimes, of course, the induced agriculture divide everybody. Mhmm. You make the wine. You make the corn. You make the, right, on a walk. And all this is very it's a tremendous way to put everybody in a corner and not to talk about. So I learn a lot talking with other farmer. Which are incredible information, experience. Right. Hearing help make, like, a beautiful, nets of, connection and Exactly. So it's not so individual. Exactly. For even for the future, we have to be connected because the only way you can survive on the next very difficult time, I think, which is good. Yeah. I agree. So so, Elizabeth, I'm gonna go to a different question that I had, but since you're talking about this, with cover cropping companion planting and integration of animals and the vineyards, This also fosters biodiversity and balanced microcosm. How exactly does this work? What animals are you, apart from your thyrolin gray cattle that you work with your cheese that we'll talk about? What what kind of animals do you integrate into your vineyards? Basically, because we are so we are in the alps. We are in the dolomite. It was very natural to integrate the cow. Mhmm. Not because the cow is also I mean, it's an animal with a lot of connection with the cosmos, a lot of power, and, I mean, the etheric part, this astral part of the animal into the vine is not only a part of, as I told you, abstract, but the cow bring the very important message, into the vineyard. Of course, this is a little bit sometime difficult, but we can manage it, and we are very proud that we can do that. And give also the cheese making, like, to honor the world of this cow, because Okay. Yes. Sometimes it seems, you are a biodynamic farmer. You have to introduce some animal, but it's not like introduce animal into a vineyard. Do you have to give them the honor to be with you and bring something for the organism, which is not only only the menu, but to to make, I mean, the milk, to make babies, to bring really life. Right. Exactly. The full circle of life within the vineyard. I understand. Uh-huh. So your cheese production is that close. So you have the the dairy cows there to be able to let them come into the vineyard, or do you have any other animals as well? But we have some chicken and, I mean, not it's enough. Okay. Yeah. Go for whatever. Our problem is not, it's a space because, we, unfortunately, we don't have space in that small valley in the mountain. Of course, I think the summer, the cow, they they They go up. Right? They go up. Uh-huh. But, Yes. So this is our limit, so the space. But Okay. In some way, I think everything is possible if you want. Sure. Well, you're definitely making everything possible here. It's amazing. Like the like the vegetable which Mirita cultivate under the the pergola. So this big training system, which it's really fantastic because you have eight to ten meter between the row. And it it it is a perfect integration of a Viticulture into, a system. In the past, they they use the Pergola for surviving because Exactly. The the Permists were put, exactly. And, and does she is she the one that is strictly in charge of the vegetable production? Or, like, it seems like each one of your two sons and your daughter have different, roles that they're doing? Yes. So everybody bring impulse, but, there is some, yes, Emilio is taking care of the beauty culture and winemaking with teo teo is the more the ambassador of the winery, but it of course, he's also part of the wide production in terms of share and opinion and bring a new vision. And Mutei is merely, yes, taking care of the old budget table and the hospitality of the winery. I mean, and Okay. And me, mostly of the cheese, of the cow, and altogether, of the develop, a new project that we have in the mountain, So it's a very interesting cooperation with a different point of view and a lot of sharing different opinion. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of different angles here, but they're all, coordinated within and and what's nice is that your children share this with you and are by your side in this journey through your, you know, business that you have. And, you know, as much as they're learning from you in the past, so I'm sure you're learning from them well. You know, with things that they're bringing to the table in terms of their education and, new processes. Yes. It's like take and give and give and take. No. That's really wonderful. Yeah. Well, let me see here. Okay. So I have another question for you, in terms of the younger generations, consumer perceptions that show a growing trend and necessity towards environmental conscious and sustainable practices the wine industry. I know they're industries that align holistic farming values and ethical consumption. Elizabeth, that do you believe this trend will become more of a demand from the younger generations of wine consumers? I believe, I hope so, but I believe that young generation, they will consider not only, of course, primarily the quality of the wine, the healthy part, the vitality of the wine, but also what is beside? Beside is not only like a farm or a family, a good process, but is in some way, the ecological responsibility Mhmm. And the social responsibility because the health of the biodynamics lies is a deep desire for social justice, respect, and improvement of, social responsibility, you know. And, it's like, more than just make a healthy wine with respect of the ecology is like to to know that there is a community of people who work differently because in some way, they can have developed, a system of really a holistic system, which put the human being at the center with all the other elements. And this, part of, be creative, be responsive, but take care of the other Mhmm. For the future of the planet. It's very important. And this is probably the most important message that we can put out. Like, imagine all you can eat is ethical. Yes. Wow. Okay. Yeah. If if people were thinking of that all the time, things would definitely be changing. Well, Seke, you're the commitment to ecological harmony contributes not only to the quality of your individual lines, but also the overall biodiversity of Trrentino Alto Alegier Italian wines. Do you feel that there is a big commitment to ecological harmony within the region that you produce your wines, or do you feel like there's still a big mountain decline there with everyone, you know, get boarding the train with you? I mean, my region, a very special region, as I told you, there is a, in fact, the space and the surface is so splitted in a small parcel. Mhmm. Very divided. Mhmm. We have a lot of cooperative, which all the section, you know, wine, milk, apple. And this make the system good of one side, and those are very fragile. That mean that individuality of the farmer is a little bit flat. For because, he's not transformed, or a few part of our farmer in Tarantino and Altois are also taking not only taking care of the fruit, but transform into one in milk. Yeah. This make all quite difficult. And and that's because there is a quite a strong, part of young people now and which believe in this, process, but truly say the most part, they are not able to do that for a lot of different. This is not, I mean, which is better or not, but, there are some limits. From starting from the structure of the agriculture and the space. Mhmm. So I hope it would be changed, but this will be we take a lot of time, which is, I think, much more easy in Italian region we we have, the possibility to really create farm with a lot of difference because they are also the possibility to have the place to do that. Yes. Exactly. Okay. But, I mean, as a as a whole, do you feel like the people are are positive and moving forward with this or just know about it? And More or less. Yes. Thank you so much. Yes. Yes. But I'm positive. Good. Good. Although time is of the essence, but, yeah, it is if it's going positive, forward motion, that's better. Yeah. Okay. Definitely. Well, okay. So Lisa. Can you describe a little bit more to us about your experience with biodynamic Viticulture? For example, like, giving some examples of maybe like the biodynamic calendar or just certifications or certain things that people might not know about or exactly what that means. First of all, I can say that biodynamic, practice are, ethical, as I told you, principle, which has nothing to do with this, I mean, very not connected with certification. Basically in this certification, which is good to, guarantee the highest organic quality to save biodynamic quality. And in that way, the diameter the trademark, is is the only global brand to recognize certified products and products Right. Produce that is biodynamic, you know? Mhmm. And there are some strict standard, boom, and behind organic. More or less because organic is then organic is, official recognized in the EU community, and demeter is a private trader. Anyway, there is, of course, a guarantee of integrity and quality which is, products that are perceived along the the entire value change, you know. At the end, the true quality of the product is go through the farmer. Correct. Through the perception and through, of course, some good practice. Yeah. But, I mean, I feel very well with the diameter. Of course, there is a huge community. There's another good aspect. Demetor is represented farmer all around the world. And, we have, once a year, incredible, beautiful and, inspiring meeting at the which is in Switzerland, which is in the center of the and topography. Mhmm. So you you can be a it change, opinion and information with more of the towers and the farmer from around the world. And when I I choose to be the merchant certificate, it was mainly because I talked to me be connected, be together. This is the only way we can have our voice, you know, into the Correct. To the political, to the community, and we could be disconnected is not a way a good way to be because sometimes, you know, there is some critical about biodynamic, and, we have to keep all together. I agree. It's the disconnection that maybe takes us down the wrong road at as is happening right now with a lot of technological things that are going on, but I think that community level is very important, and we all need to stick into this together and and go through this together if we want to make things more positive. I I agree with you. Oh, yes. Community is very important. Probably most important things for the next year together because Exactly. Outside to try to divide and to give, people are also not truly informed what about, our practice are. So it which they are sometimes quite a little bit difficult to No. They they are our, you know, biodynamic practice are very concrete. I even I mean, I saw the result, in all this twenty more year of practice. Yeah. But there are a little more complicated to explain as a traditional and conventional practice of agriculture. Yeah. I agree. Anyways, there is nothing to explain. There is just only two to taste. Exactly. To taste the detail. And see the energy when you normally, when you go into a biodynamic farm, you you feel a difference. Just only feeling Mhmm. Even in the soils, by I wanted to that was my next topic was, the bio dynamic soils are rich, such a rich and diverse tapestry, that weaves its essential components into every fine and wine produced as you do. The careful attention of the soil health biodiversity and the avoidance of synthetic inputs can result in grapes that are more in tune with their natural surroundings. Therefore, results in wines that reflect the authenticity and unique characteristics of the vineyard. And this emphasizes a deeper connection between the wine. It's origin and the bio dynamic philosophy of sustainable holistic culture. And, I would appreciate Elizabeth. If you could tell us about your diverse soil ecosystem, and then, we can talk about some of your your wonderful wines. There are different soil because there are different parts of the valley, which is common to all the soil. What I saw, it's increasing of the humus humus part. Mhmm. Which is in fact a big connector and transformer. And, if you have this vitality in the soil, so you can feel that when you, when you see the earth, but they are growing up, when you see the healthy plants, when you walk into the vineyard, they are soft. There is something which is, we don't work a lot of the soil. So we have spontaneous herbs. Okay. And these all is part of the system which make the vigna not only a monoculture, but like, a big garden. Of course, there are a lot of vineyard, but we have a lot of different plant. We plant trees into the vineyard. Mhmm. We we try to to to to enrich the but all this, at some point, because the the the head of the plant is into the soil, the roots, you know, it's a opposite as we are. This make to this big u s component, this make possible that the plant is more connected and can cap all the information which are coming from the solar system, which is very important for us through the moon. Right? And in this way, the plan is open to all the information. Right. For health thing. Like a radar. It can give some exactly. It can give them a lot of answer to the change, also to the climate change, but the there can be it's very flexible also to the extreme climate changement. And at the end, the fruit is kind of grape, it's kind of any anyway, it's it's it's has a lot of information from the character of the the place because the plant is connected. So in in this term, the alluvial soil of Terol, Evovigna give a lot of information by the the quantity of the dolomite, which is the main rock. Mhmm. Correct. The clay, limestone soil, from New Zealand, and Monzione, they give full information of this place and so on. You know, so we can really speak from Terrar. Correct. It's it's it's that communication that back and forth, you know, be in the biodiversity that, really, again, like you said in the beginning is coming full circle here without any intervention at all. And, that is just so that's that's taking it back to just ancestral, Viticulture or agriculture, whatever you wanna call it, but it's, so important that that's respected. In some way, you are valuing the tradition and the spirit of a place Mhmm. Which is our mission. Yes. And it's it's so well done. I diversity, which leads to resilience. So there are a lot of, very important, aspect, which is not only, yes, preserve the fertility of the soil, and which is one of the aspect. We we are nursing body, mind, and soul. Exactly. And, do you in and this comes through with your, wines as well? The the depth of the flavor, the minerality, the height, the nuances, of the aromatics, that I think reflect the distinctiveness of your terroir. It's, it's it's well well appreciated in your wines. And I if you'd like to go through a couple of them, and I'd I'd love to have you talk about, the amphoras as well, which I see that that are coming actually from Spain. Yeah. But, I think it was Vierrobleto, you know, in La Maraca. One, buddy. Okay. And how do you call, Florida in, Italian? Is that Jada, or do you say I'm Fora? Oh, I mean Jada is Italian. But we call our tinakas. Tina. That's what we come to. Yeah. Okay, Tina. We come tinakas and Tina. Okay. So can you, yeah, could you explain a little bit about how you decided to you know, start doing that with a start fermenting and, this was many years ago. Mhmm. And it was like, a consequence of, what we did, although we we used to do outside, the the big question was, how can I keep this pure message and vitality during the transformation grape and wine? How can I yes, keep these methods in a pure way? And, at the end, the clay, which is, an incredible element. Clay is connecting difference. Play in the soil is connecting the the calcare, calcare part to the to the quartz part. What's happening to the tinakas or in the jar is with a good clay and good quality of I mean, the material is, preserving all the vitality of our grape. In the this long infusion in fermentation with infusion, which is, our process to make wine to them. We we just form nine eight, nine months. So very Uh-huh. Right. Okay. Yeah. And, And, yes, and Yeah. The master, and I was very lucky through Guisto Kipinti, who is my good friend and winemaker in Sicily. He Mhmm. At one point, he made a big research into the Mediterranean. This was, more than fifteen years ago. So I found out who I'm Padilla, and we share he shared with me this fantastic. Yeah. That's what. That's So that was a big, big, big, a big change. A well, you think, Elizabeth back again, we go to that full circle. You know, the the graves and the vineyards that are on the Calcareous clay soils are some are coming from the clay, and they're going back into the clay. And it's just that that connection and how they're different at certain moments in their transformation. I really respect the fact that you are using the Genafas there. I mean, you must have a lot of them. Yes. We work with more two hundred seventy. Wow. Okay. Two seventy. Very lucky. It is a fantastic quality. Also, you know, there are now a little bit, patient about the amphora, but to find out a good quality of clay, and the process for making that, which contain also the use of the fire, not with electric oven. Correct. Yeah. So there are a lot of very subtle elements which bring into the quality. It's very rare. Very rare. So I feel very lucky. We feel very lucky. Sure. Well, you found a good place. In La Manchaise, those are silty clay loam soils. So that's, you know, and as you can, like you said, the firing, is just as important. So it just sounds like, you know, that this was a very good decision back in the day, and it's being followed up now by more and more vineyards that are trying to do this as well. Yes. Of course. But with more and more, you know, harris or Yeah. Artisons are few and far between. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. That's true. Well, so so tell us some some stories about your your wines. Which one would you like to talk about? Maybe the Fantara Santa and Oceola or I will we are we've I work at them now. We work all together a lot with Teroldago, which is our red variety. Yes. So and it's, I mean, master of our work in different single vineyard, Granato, and n. But regarding Mosola, I would like to to to give this tiny and fantastic white grape in Tarantino, the place which Nazzola has have to be, which is one of the best white wine of Italy. Unfortunately, it's unknown. There is a very tiny production, but it's, a grape which which express herself in this long, infusion into the tinakas, and can can give wines which can age for ten, twenty years. And, I love this variety. So we are also we take care on five hectares of Mosola reproducing with mast cell selection, make like a conservative diversity of the variety because as well as the role level. But Nozoa needs to be protected because the surface is going back and back. There are just only forty hectares in Trankino. Okay. And, yes. So a great, great variety of our of our Tarant. Not not well known, but, fantastic great. But it's so vibrant. It's a vibrant white and with the amphora, it really, comes through. It's a beautiful wine. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's very nice. And, well, okay. So I have a couple questions left, but I wanted to ask you, what is your biggest concern, Elizabetha regarding climate change? Your biggest concern. I know we're talking about community and we're talking about all sorts of different things. But in terms of what you're seeing in the vineyard, what's coming, I know you're forward thinking, but you you will also go back to the artisanal, and how can we tie this all together? What what is your concern that, that's maybe something you're not going to be able to, see coming in climate change Oh, there is a lot of things which kind of I go here. It's a tidal wave, basically, but go ahead. So I feel very lucky that, I am a biodynamic farmer because we have instruments. So we we can, really with the use, a different use of the preporate make more and more, stronger plants, which is very flexible. But, of course, sometimes it seems it's not enough. But is a a question of be consequence? Yeah. A lot of little things we have to do every month, every year, and we have instrument because the most part of agriculture don't have instruments. They are completely, without a new idea because, if you work with, that soil. If you work with, OGM mutated plant, if you work with a genetic which is poor, if you work with a monoculture of andre Haefecta, you are, like, alone in the middle of the desert. Correct. Which is a little bit the opposite, what we can do. I hope so. Right. And unity. Uh-huh. You don't wanna be alone. Right. And, the the reasons are important part of regeneration, what's regarding the seeds. Of course, the principle of the biodynamic approach, a lot, they are different. What it's our feeling is that, of course, there is a change, perhaps it's a what I cannot understand. It was a feeling of the last two year that there is something we stop that or reduce the connection with the solar system. So the information which are coming from the cosmos. No. I see. Okay. So that's because we have to find other solution with the use of the preporate to create a plant, which is deeper connected. Okay. Because in some way, there is, something which stopped. So but this very abstract concept, I I I can believe that someone can say, I am a little bit crazy, but this is the perception. No. But I understand. Yeah. And that that's that in-depth, just, you know, observing and seeing what's going on. And since you do see everything every day in the vineyard, and if you notice something like this over a two year period, I I understand that. I'm sure there's a lot of other people that are, understanding this as well. So but, Elizabeth, your commitment to biodynamic practices reflects the fortalodi dedication to produce exceptional quality wines with respect and responsibility to the environment that you've been talking about in this whole interview. And by respecting the past, taking care of the present and planning for the future, We commend you and your family, and thank you for your forward thinking that enables us all to have a wonderful wine experience. Chichi Elizabeth, and thank you. I have two things. And, Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. That means I'm back. Thank you both so much. We hope you have a legal problem, but, we loved having, of course, Elizabetha. I think I had atelio Shenza in my office for about six hours this morning. So Wow. In Italian, we say to Elizabetha, which means literally the translation, means that, physically means, like, ringing. Yeah. Okay. But it means that your her ears must have been burning. I don't know. Ah, gotcha. Because we were talking about her all this morning because it turns out fun fact, Elizabeth's past husband used to live with Atilo Shenza. No. Are you serious? Is that correct? For five years? Oh my gosh. I mean, he came to Italy because Atilo which at the time was, a young researcher. They met in Germany, and in some way, my, as a Reiner, who loves, Medi Turaneo, and and they decide to come. And, I met actually my husband because of Aterio. Yes. I mean, he don't was there. Yes. Yes. So we were talking So I love Matilio. We all love Matilio. Oh my. Sometimes not. But, when we speak with epigenetic and all this, and who who transform, I mean, la. So there is a Yeah. It's a love and hate. Relationship. But, yeah, because I found out today that it was Atila who introduced her past husband, Xerak, to Elizabeth. So what a small, small Yeah. Whatever that means. But, yeah, so we have to have actually a session with Elizabeth and Natilio together. Some tongue. Wow. That would be amazing. And she's like, before we have to psychologically prepare ourselves, everybody. So my god. Yeah. Thank you so much for both for joining us today. Wow. And that is a wrap for Italian Mind Podcast. Thank you everybody for joining us. And, of course, and thank you for letting us do this. Yeah. And, of course, this will be replayed on the Italian Mind Pod cast. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianline podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, chi qin.