Ep. 1985 Alice Barera interviews Marina Marcarino | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

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Welcome to another episode of Italian wine podcast Clubhouse Ambassador Corner where we have our Italian wine ambassadors interview their favorite Italian wine producers. So for today's show, we have Alice Barrera interviewing Marina Marcarina. So before we begin, I would like to introduce Alice. So she is, New York based Italian wine ambassador, born and raised in Alto I I don't know how high is that the amount apart, but they can tell me later. So Alice holds a master in business management at the University of Polonia Business School, and for stood an international career intertwined between wine sales, marketing, and hospitality. She loves making Italian wine simple and accessible for whoever is willing to listen to her stories. Hi, Alice. Hi. Tell me more about your experience in Bologna. As you stayed here in Bologna for a bit? Or oh, no. You're you're from Piamonte. Yes. I'm from Piamonte. Yes. Yes. I think, yeah, I'll talk to Piamonte is is because I actually grew up in the Alps, very close to this this border. Yes. It's a fun story. It's a a little town. Nobody knows where it is, but everybody knows the name because it's the town you use. When you do the Italian spelling, you know, how we use, city names. So you say, a as in Ancona, b as in bologna, and then for the d, you have and that's where I'm from. Yes. That's interesting. So that's really interesting. Like, you're really close to the skiing part as well. So you're just pretty close. Yes. Yes. I was born, I was born a skier, really. Okay. Yeah. So, obviously, you know, it's a small town. And from there, I traveled around a bit. I first studied the in Milan when I where I went for the university for my bachelor, and I studied languages. And then, after I first approached the hospitality word, I went back studying, and that's the moment where I moved and lived in, in Bologna for a year or so. So it was a great experience. Right after I started my, journey in the United States. I did, the first, six years between Miami and Chicago, working for, an Italian wine importer. Okay. And then after a year off, I took this opportunity to come to New York and, work as a beverage manager. Oh, okay. That's fascinating your journey. So why did you select today, Marina Marcarino as your favorite producer on your first clubhouse investors corner? Yes. So so I have to say, you know, I was lucky to meet, Marina. She was introduced to me by the by two friends, from a distributor here. Eva and David, they invited me to the dinner with Marina. And, her story is such a great inspiration to me. She is a a pioneer, an innovator. She's a woman entrepreneur, and she strongly believed in her ideals. That's what really, struck me since the beginning. So today, I really wanted to share this, inspiration with all of our listeners. I I really love the fact that we're today, we're giving a highlight on one of the inspiring women winemaker in Italy. So I am so excited to listen to this conversation. And, how did you discover the wines of Pinsett? We were, in New York with, with other friends. And, I went to dinner, and I was sitting next to marina. So she guided me through, her wines. We started off with her beautiful Agnese, and then, we moved on to the red wines, the Delceto, the Barbera, and, of course, the the protagonist, the the barbaresco. And it was, such a great, experience that night, that, I really, really wanted to, you know, have the opportunity of having her here and share that same energy. That I saw at the table at night. Okay. Since we have our Italian wine ambassadors here in our colleagues, so I just, wanna have a shout out to Elena, Kevin, Julia, Marsha, pedro and Elena for being here, and thank you so much for being here. So since we they're actually very geeky in terms of wine, and we wanted to know what are the learning objectives that we should be expecting from this interview? Of course. So, I think, the the big pro of having a marina here is that she's able to give us a deeper perspective on the biodynamic practices she uses at Conset and her whole, philosophy. And of course, deeper understanding of the the characteristics of the language terroir and why her approach is, so important in preserving this identity that comes from the territory in the first place. Okay. So that's that's really good. This introduction. So I'm going to mute myself and I will give the floor to you. And, yep, that's it. Good luck. Ciao, Marina. How are you? I am good. And you? Good. Good. Are you traveling this time of the year? Yes. I am just back from a market visiting London. And before I was at the Row wine fair in Copenhagen, now I need to rest a little because of the vineyards are really, waiting for me. Of course. Of course. Great. So, I'm going to give a deeper introduction to where it gets, and then we can deep dive into the questions if you agree. Great. Okay. So, Marina started dreaming of, becoming a winemaker when she was a child as, her, paternal grandmother let her help with the winemaking process. So in the vineyards, she learned all about the life cycle of the vines, in the cellar, she tasted small sips of wine to understand the differences between the varietals, And she then realized that she was really interested in this word, well, when while she was attending university, she discovered organical agriculture. And, it's method and a new authentic way to be in close contact with her advice. So, she turned cultivation into a bond of reciprocal respect with the territory. Despite marina's commitment and passion. The first impact with the, this new world was hard. The first organic harvests were lost, but did this not discourage you. Right, Marina? Yeah. Exactly. If it's difficult to to go back to me. Yes. I can I can tell Marina continued on her way with determination, and she pursued, her ideas and her choice over the years? So we hired at the present day, and Pousette is now considered one of the pioneers of organic growing in Pemonte, and a point of reference for the village of Navy and, and the whole area. Thanks to more than thirty years of experience and the excellent results that were brought by this winery. And, in addition to our commitment to the vineyards, something, I really, feel close, with Marina is the fact that at the end of the eighties, she came to the States to gain experience in the marketing field, and this has been a key to her, becoming manager of the re winery, leading it to the results we can all see today. So what a what a nice story? Where where did you live in the United States, Marina, when you came here? I lived in Virginia. Okay. Actually, I worked for the winery, owned by a a big Italian company. And I started the with the the vineyard approach, and then, I was also put, in the in the marketing section. So it was, quite a, an ample vision of what was going on on the other side of the ocean. And for me, it was really a good score. Of course, I can imagine what, what could you see, in the United States that it's not so easy to find in, in Italy, you know, if you had the same experience, you know, large one or in Italy, what you think would have been the difference? I think that there is a a big difference, in the approach of winemaking in general. You know, we have a lot of history here in Italy, and so a lot of rules, very tight, a lot of, let's say, complication and everything we we have to do while an experience in, in Virginia was something surprising because, it was really easy to adjust the wine in relation on, from what we were looking for. So a different vision, complete a different vision. On the other end, I found the that, you know, planting vineyards in a in an area where the there is not, this kind of cultivation. It is also facing. Is it it's also something like facing, illness risks, problems that, for us, are, or already gone and and known very well, so not so difficult to to to face. Of course. Of course. And, from, from the marketing experience, I imagine, at least, so what I see that attracts me a lot from, from the United States is, how fast, solutions are implemented here compared to Italy and how easy to think outside of the box and, turn that into a reality. Do you do you share this this done? Absolutely. Yes. It's, like, to be three centuries of difference. Know. Yes. Stock on a on a very old way of of selling, buying in the market. Yeah, in the market is, it's a little slower. It is. Yes. A very slow movement. You know, you don't see news so so often. And also the the way of, welcoming new products in in the US, there is a lot of interest, attention, permit in Italy. Everything has to be proposed and make a decision. So Thanks. Of course. It takes longer time, but it's good that you could put the best of both words together. That's awesome. Okay. So starting from the beginning, my first question for you, Marina, is, about, the the start of, of your own journey. So I know your passion of wine started when you were a kid would you want to share a story with us from, that time? Yes. Of course, because my story is a little funny. And so, I can also make people smiling a little. When I was a kid, I was, quite energetic. I mean, my worst problem was to sit in a desk, and in Italy, you know, at the time, the kindergarten was all run by sisters that were importing to stay sitting. To pray and, in order to make noise. So, actually, I've I've been pushed out by three different kindergartners here. And, obviously, for my mother was a big problem because she was working. And so my mother, my grandma offered to take care of me until the school time. My grandma was, to me, like a mentor, a great woman. A sort of wonder woman, because, together with me, she was also, looking after other five boys and all older than me. Plus, she was cooking daily together with the help, of course, for seventy five people. Wow. Because, my family is, has always been involved in constructions and was, a rule for my grandfather to give the meal together with the payroll for all the workers. And they and we got some new workers. So and then my grandma was also taking care of this farm because at that time, it was a real farm with animals, with the fruit plants, vegetable garden, and so on. So actually, my way of playing was to spend the time with her doing things. So I learned that I had to do little works on the vines, how to carry the the vegetable garden, to cook a little, and to make wine because the winemaker of my grandfather of being that was having good wine, was my mother. It was my mother. And that, was the starter of my passion. So since, since when really young, at the age of eighty nine years, I always wanted to be a farmer and a winemaker. That's amazing. Sorry. It it's a true vocation. I can tell, but, it wasn't as easy, to to get there. Right? You kind of have to fight for it. Is it true that, when you were a yes. When you were a teenager, you secretly started studying at the winemaking school to purse pursue your dream. Is that true? Yeah. Actually, it was not really at the teenager times, but a little older because to buy school, I had to follow my family volunteers. So I went to to a school that was more technical preparing me, to become an engineer. Because they want to to be an engineer for taking over the construction company. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. It was at the university that I decided to apply to a recorder without giving any notice to my family. Mhmm. So it was, a secret for me. Because it was sure that they didn't want. So they they were, as a matter of fact, when I've been discovered, there was a bomb at home. I can imagine when father sent me working in a construction company, and that was the worst the time of my life. I was really super stressed. And so it also gave me the courage of, facing my father and proposing a sort of borrow. Asking, to give me the chance of working at the winery for at least one year, for proving that I can make it. And my father gave me this opportunity with the the condition that I had to use only my money. Mhmm. And that he had to keep all the accounting. And, of course, the the key was that If I would have been able to make a plus, I could have continued. Otherwise, my my way was, already written in the construction company. And, and this was also, the first, contact with organic growing because, studying at the university and starting with my experience that, my father allowed. I realized that that my skills, on, on, vine growing, were really poor because it was just at the beginning of my studies. And I I need the support. So, the university was a was available to do something for me just bringing a project. And I brought to this project of the organic growing. That was, completely new for the those age because it was nineteen eighty two. And, no one was working organically in this part of Piamonte. And, obviously, it was a sun thing interesting to to study for the university. And, for me, it was important to to have this kind of support. So we started this project that took, was transformed, in experimental field. And we have been, like, twenty years, experimental field in the in the organic, growing into a mountain. That's great. So this studies, then, continue for a for a long time alongside the the university. So everything you did was kind of documented, by which university was it, marina? The agricultural University of Torino. Of Torino. Fantastic. So, you could really, document all, your results and achievements from, from day one. I imagine, it's great to have this source of information to to move on and, and get better. Yes. And it is it it is also very interesting to see how things have change these things then because, you know, when I started, it was even impossible to find the products for spraying the vineyards because you know, when I was with them. And, And now we see that organic finally as having a place, in the in the agricultural world, which is more important, which is, welcomed. But my first experience were nasty. I mean, I I had the times where people were not going to taste because on the label, we I was writing organic. Oh, wow. They thought it was bad. They thought this was bad. You know, I still remember in, nineteen ninety one. I was exposing, at a fair, and I was really proud of my new labels with the organic wine. And the people was watching at the label and they say, oh, oh, no. Organic. I don't taste. Oh, wow. And so after one day, I didn't pour one sip of wine to anyone. So I went to to the washer room, and, and I washed away all the labels. That way, people were available for tasting. And when they tasted, they were, and they were real sick. Yes. Of course, but it wasn't so difficult to do. Brooke was the wine itself. Of course. Wow. How the world changes so fast? So I imagine, as a woman and a rebel, in a in a main dominated wine making world. You probably had some bitter pills you had to swallow. Did you, also have some moments when you felt the strongest when you felt you overwhelmed all of this. Just, like you told us with the label with the story of the labels. Yeah. And then, of course, you know, when I started, I was, the only woman in the region, to make wine and to run vineyards without, a man aside. There were, you know, wives, maybe, or daughters, or sisters that were doing things, but the the the main word was always, in a mental. And, so for, obviously, at the beginning, I was watched like a range animal. Many people were believing that I was, probably, able only to destroy the the family property. And, I still remember in a meeting, of pro of of producers. It was a meeting for the consortium, that I tried to to give a proposal. We were speaking about some regulations. And, an old man turned to me. He was sitting in the first row and said, but would you believe to understand that you are a girl so young? And it was, like, shocked because to me, never came through my mind that, the sexual fact could be important that someone could watched you not because of person, but because they are a man or a woman. And it took a while to be appreciated for what, I did. Mhmm. The the big satisfaction was after a few years, when the same man came to me for asking a suggestion. Oh, wow. And, and there was, like, surprised because, you know, the first approach was really quite nasty. And then we became a very good friend in the years that he was much older than me, he passed away already a few years ago. But it it really, took time and also a lot of energy. That's even the reason I always wanted to participate to all the activities tied to the wine and the wine and territory three, the vineyards regulation, to have the possibility of being more involved in that word and also to be a good example for what I am, of course. Of course. That that's a great story. That's awesome. So, we when you started Consette, you already added these idea of the organic approach that you just told us about, but then you moved to Biodynamic and currently to natural winemaking. So can you kind of guide us through these different passages and how you made the decisions? Yes. I should say that when I started with the organic, it was more an egoistical, choice. The idea of working with heavy poison and to poison myself was, you know, something that they want. I wanted to change some way. And so at that time, the only option was to consider organic as a main practice. When you started to to live in a certain word, you discovered new things, it's normal. And so I started to study something more, natural on agriculture and discovered the, the biodynamic method. The biodynamic method actually has only something more of, organic because, there is, this, philosophy. And to me, biodynamic is a philosophy of, the energy that connects our planet with other planets of the universe and everything, is supported by this energy. And so I started to, study the the steiner, theory. And, to apply it by little, to use this preparation to start with the dynamization, seeing that, it was a true, the vines were responding very well. They were alive. They were very healthy. They were, with green, deeper color, and, in particular, the soil, started to become, softer, richer without adding any manure. Also, we started to see, new birds, new kind of butterflies, everything was changing. And, What came to my eyes, very often was that from one vineyard to the other, even if they were very near, there were big differences during the season. And, and that was, interesting, to to show because we were having so many varieties of grass inside. And the idea of using the selective district for the fermentation, was like killing or the potential of showing what our land can give, compared to the the neighbor one. And so this, pushed me to start working naturally. As the beginning was only for the red wines course because it is simple. Mhmm. But then after a few years, let's say, five, six years, we decided to use only natural methods with the our or or our range. And I am very happy about That's great. Two year. And I love the, how, again, everything is connected and how you did this gradually, because you kind of, this breakthrough, of seeing what was going on in in in the vineyard. I remember that when we met, we talked about the Fukuoka method that you applied to your vineyards, and I asked to I got really excited and I asked you for a a deeper dive into that. Could you share it with our listeners today? Yes. Pukuoka was, was the the the last, discovery and let's say, a big love. Because, I I read that book, one straw revolution, which is the actually a book that doesn't speak only about agriculture. Probably agriculture is something like the scene behind the, over what is the main theme. And, I was really fascinated by, what Fukuoka was presenting, and what he did for proving, is the thought. Mainly, Massanova Fukuoka came from a very chemical as parents, he was able to go to a land in an area where, everything was chemically cultivated, and he decided to grow rice without watering. And without using any addition, to to to the regular spraying, the normal basic spraying of, mainly sulfur because they don't use copper. And he realized that he found out that after the first, season, his production of rice was, richer in, in nutrition fact. And, the quantity that, he was able to make was not so far from the one spray the chemical. So, he's he's started to study what was going on and he never, moved away, you know, that grass that is called the bad grass because he's, in competition with them, with the the the main, variety. And, through that, he understood that there is a commitment in between different varieties. So he tried to do the same, allowing, you know, cherry trees to grow together with flowers and and vegetables at the bottom. And then, he studied the wood. The wood, which is the most balanced environment that we have. And it is a place where no one of us, as even the idea of a plant or something, or, you know, remove something just because it is too much. So in a wood, something born and something die because, it is part of the complete natural change chain. And each little individual is important. So this, obviously, bring us to the modern agriculture, which is the opposite of a hood where we have, you know, a lot of work on the soil. Killing a lot of microorganisms. No competition because, with the herbicides that are used in high quantity, the cultivation becomes a cultivation of a lawn plants that only fight, for having food. And the the the soil becomes like neutral without any, alive end element. So to solve the situation, you need to add manners, to add elements, cut, fruits away because they are not, obviously, able to to ripen off. And the the that way, the plant is more exposed to heat less. So, reading all these tests, sir, because the the the book was one of the of the main that I read from a coworker. I decided to try with a little part of the vineyards to do what food for worker was doing. And there's a it was incredible. Because we saw that, our vines, were reacting to possible infection much better than all the others. And so, you know, in, like, three years, we turned all the cultivation to the food work method, which is not only working the soil. It's not only leaving the grass, not cutting, you know, chopping, you know, turning. But it is also a different work on the vine. Because, everything, is based on the individual energy and potential. So, the fact that the plant is, you know, super strong means that if we cut too much, we stress it because we don't allow the plant to do the real, job that, it needs to do. And at the same, if we'll prune a tire divine with longer cuts, asking to make a lot of grapes. For sure, it will be very, very tired and the defenses are going to go down. So the natural and spontaneous reaction to all the potential infection is gone. We work more on this. We leave the plants, doing what they can. We leave them, competing with all the kind of grass that we have in the soil. But that way, the environment is very good, and we see a very low infection, especially this year that, I don't know if you know, but in Piamonte, we are facing quite a hard season. Mhmm. We see that, that our plans are feeling much better than, others that are sprayed and sprayed every day and, staying in a in in places completely new without grass and and without protection. Yes. Because you you were telling me that, this year, it's been quite wet. Right? In the season? Yes. We are actually getting all the rain. We asked for the last three years. We we we can't say what what is not right. But, yes, it is raining too much. And, we have we started to be afraid for the moment. The the the the winners are held but we are already losing grapes because of, of the fact that they don't bloom. Mhmm. And so the blooming was delayed. So we really confide in a summer as soon as possible. Yes. Hopefully, the sun will start shining, and bringing the and bringing us great grapes for the Bill X Arvest. Marina, from your story, and, your approach I understand, and I heard you saying this as well that education really is key in understanding why making and also, in bringing new generation, closer to the wine, in forging, new drinkers. And this is something, I I feel very strongly about as well. Can you tell us what you mean, when you say education? What what is your approach? You know, I I was born in a generation where everyone, every kid was not allowed, but requested the two taste wine. I still remember those, family meals with all my cousins and my grandfather that was pushed pouring this little sip of Friza, which is the probably the most strong wine for you, saying that we had to have it because it is a part of the meal. The wine is a part of the meal. It's nutritional as a same as Brad, the same as me. And, this was an education also, to, allow us to understand the the limits. And to appreciate the product, and not to use it, like, you know, something to forget for forgetting or for showing power, strongness and whatever. What I see now is that, there is a lot of prohibition for younger people for drinking alcohol. And, for them, becomes, like, Maybe, you know, a a a a trial, a proof that they can do it, they can't drink because they are tall because they go to the age, and they they get drunk. And they also get to the wrong approach with, with alcohol. Because, in these times, the alcohol word is putting together so many different drinks. You know, it is something to drink a glass of wine, but it is much different to drink a glass of gin or tequila or, amaro, not only for the alcohol contact, but also for what it reflect on, our body. So in my opinion, it would be better to to allow these young people to taste, to approach the wine, to explain how it is made, what it represent, especially, you know, for countries like Italy where we have the this product in our in our history and in our blood. And, In my opinion, the education is a little leaking also for food because now there is not an education to balance diet, to to the it for eating the proper food and skipping what we consider trash or, you know, that food that, is fast and sometimes super rich of, fat and, and, and not, mood. Food ratios. Yes. So when my son was, at the elementary school, we we made a project together with the the the teachers of showing the kids how they can make their own bread how they can make the gold jam, and how can they make the own wine? They were, like, six, seven, eight years old. And, for them, it was an experience that still left something inside because they know that, not all the bread is the same, not all the jam is the same, and not all the wine is the same. Because even in this, there is a big difference picking something made more in an artisan company, as a big difference than going to a cheaper wine made by an industrial winery that as to respect volume, taste, characters year by year, because for sure they needed to use a different way of Of course. Mhmm. Yes. And I I know you have, visitors that come to your winery. And, you have a very down to earth approach in having them taste their wine and, explore what it is, the the language territory, in the end. So my my question to you is, what what are the the the what is the message you want to give to people who come to to your wineries, what is that you would like for them to remember about the Delangue when they go back home and your wines, of course. Oh, first of all, you know, we decided this in a few years that, our winer winery is open to anyone that like to understand a little more of what we do. So to have, like, a deep experience in onset. But it is open only on appointment because that way people knows that we reserved at the time for them. We are there for explaining for, giving them some informations and experiences that can't get by a normal guided tour. The experience at Conset is a a vineyard visits plus a tasting. I always keep the winery because the winery to me is a working place. It's not a living room. I don't want it to to, you know, for the eyes, with, incredible design, I wanted to feel the the the heart with what we are doing. And I want the people to understand that behind of, a sunset wine there is a lot of, passion interest in doing things good for the the entire planet. So I think that our territory, is one of the nicest, that you can ever foreseeing the differences between working in one or in another way. And and the the walk in the in the vineyard is so interesting because they they can really see what is going around, and what is going in our, state. Then, obviously, I like to promote our territory because, you know, the language together with the Piamonte itself, but, in particular, this region, represent really the the beginning of the of the wine history. Imagine that, in the Italian Museum, in the Alba Museum of, of the Roman time, there are still and first full of wine made at that time. And, the the territory was, already, known for a very good production, of course, was not the same of now, of of of what here now, but it means that, by growing really as deep roots in this region, and, knowing, literally, a little the story of the area that went through a deep poverty in the you know, nineteen fifty six. Almost all the, all the Venus have been abandoned because, because of a big, health storm. And because the price of the wine was too low, and so people moved to fiat working there. And, nineteen fifty six is not so far. If we think that from there, the region grew up and became one of the most important region in the world means that our people put, you know, the all energy in in a changing the situation and trying to show that work we can do here. So I am full of respect for, the for all our ancient that, invested the life. Of course. Changing, the the shape of, of the area, maintaining always this, really polite and almost shy, face, toward the world. You know, in in PMonte, there is not master tourism. There is not, any intention of bringing, you know, quantity of people, but there is always they interested in in showing what we do but well. We try to do well at least. Fantastic. Yes. Yes. Great. I can tell there's great love. Forty amount coming from you, and, I absolutely share it. So, Marina, we are, almost, at the end of our interview. So I'm gonna turn over the word to Lita was assisting us today, to see if we maybe have questions from our listeners. Hello. Thank you so much for the amazing conversation. I really like it. Incredible stories you have given Marina. So I I really think it's really worth a listen for this, episode. So for the audience, if you have any questions for Marina, you can raise your hand so we can put you up on stage. Or if you're kind of shy, we can You can write your questions, here, or, and then we can read it afterwards. Let's just have a quick pause, and then let's wait for them. Okay. Everybody is, Piamontesai today. Yeah. They're very Piamontes today. Okay. Okay. So we are closing a little bit early because, Marina has an appointment to do. So thank you so much for, you know, having some time for us to do this clubhouse with you, Marina. So before I close-up the room, I wanted to announce that next week, there's going to be another clubhouse ambassadors corner with Mauriz Mauricio De Kiaro interviewing Fabio Constantino from Terra Costastantino. So That's gonna be on Tuesday at five thirty PM, on June eighteenth. So, yeah, he's here actually in the audience. So thank you so much for the time, Marina and Alice, and have a wonderful evening. Goodbye, everyone. Ciao. Goodbye. Thank you, Marina. Goodbye. Thanks a lot. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcast. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. 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