Ep. 2014 Marco Albanese interviews Eugenio Palumbo | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pots. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and it Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everybody. My name's Stevie Kim, and welcome to Italian wine House. I understand it's called now Kaze Italian wine on Clubhouse. It used to be called the room, Italian wine room. And this is called the Ambassador Corner. It's more like a fireside chat style where one of our Italian wine ambassadors at large get a chance to speak with, one of their favorite producers, Italian wine producers. They get to choose one, and then they have a an intimate chat for about an hour or so. So today's Mod. We have a mock squad, and today's host is Marco Albanese Echa. Charles Stevy, thanks for having me. Hey, Marco. Long time no see. What's the weather like in, New York? It's a balmy twenty nine degrees Celsius here. So it's a little better than it has been. So it may be a little warm for a fireside chat, but I'll do my best. So for those of you who are less familiar, Marco Albanese, he was born in Canada. Right? Yeah. Exactly born and raised in Montreal. I lived in Toronto. For a long time too. But your name is albanese. Yeah. I'm so good. That that must be somewhere down my hand. There's gotta be some albanian heritage in there somewhere. So Marco has been acclimated as the New via Phoenix International Academy, Italian Minum, Ambassador, just in March in New York. Congrats, Marco. Hold on. I have a special account. Yeah. You weren't expecting that. I have so many times. Thank you so much. I'm reliving the glory again. I really appreciate that. That that was super fun. I mean, it was kinda wet the impending ceremony, but that was funny. It wasn't heat. Yeah. It felt very tie in because there was that chaotic charm in Grand Central. Exactly. Yeah. And where we weren't supposed to use the mic, nor TV, or anything like that, but we did it with noise. So We pulled it off in true New York style. Yeah. Exactly. So I know you work for an importer, Italian mining. Yeah. Right? I do. Yeah. That work for Delacheva here in the state. With Brian Larkey. Alright? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. He comes to wine to wine actually. He does. He does. He does. Yeah. So, hopefully, you can make yourself over too sometime. That's the plan. I'm really hoping I can make it actually. And I know today, you've chosen VIP. So is that, one of the wines that you carried, then why don't you? Yeah. Yeah. I'm fortunate enough. Yeah. I'm fortunate enough to, you know, be able to represent them here in the market. And I was just super excited to kind of get to know Virginia a little bit better and kind of delve into his story a little more in-depth. What does Elgenio do, Palumbo, at Beatty? He is the winemaker. He is the head winemaker. Okay. Excellent. Okay. I I knew, of course, Luca, but I know he he's left now doing his own thing. Yeah. Exactly. I'm very excited to learn more about Eugenio. And what are the learning objectives today? I am hoping to basically just get to know Daniel a little bit better, kind of, you know, talk to him about his experience with Vietti. He's been there for a really long time, and I will let him elaborate on all that. Of course, I don't wanna take away his thunder. I wanna talk more about, obviously, Barto and Barbara, you know, the stars of Beamonte. But I think, you know, when I think of YETa, I also think about Barbera, and I also think about the changes in Piamonte, what we're seeing, how timorasta was becoming a huge, hugely popular variety and a hugely popular wine, especially here in my market, and I suspect across the country. And I wanted a little bit about him as well. His his we got into the wine business, how we got into wine making. I think, you know, so many people, that I've been fortunate enough to know are family members, you know, you you're born into it. And I think it's gonna be really interesting to hear from somebody who, you know, has spent such a big chunk of his life there. And basically started off as a job, and he's still there all this time. Just learning more about his, his overall experience and the path he took to get to where he is today. Excellent. So I'll be just muting my mic now, and you are in complete control. Until the end of the show, Marco. Okay? Thank you so much. Okay. Over to you. Thank you. Hi everybody. Thanks for joining us today. My, guest, my, the person I've I've been dying to speak to and really getting to know a little bit more, and I'm really excited to talk to is Eugenio Palumbo from Biette. He was raised in Alba, and he attended the Inological high school, in, Piamonte. And after graduation, he immediately started to work at Vietti, and, you know, discovered the wine world. And he's now currently obviously at Vietti. And I just kinda wanna dive in a little bit and, you know, say, hi. We'll bring Regina on. Chow you, Janio. How are you doing? Chal Marco. Thank you so much for coming today. Okay. It's a great, great pleasure for me, and I'm very honored and proud to be here. And, so it will be a great moment, I think. No. Thank you so much. Thank you for taking time out of your day. Obviously, I know, you know, working with you doing your schedule, you know, not a lot of free time, but I'm really hoping to just kind of get to know you a little bit better. We have obviously met here in the market a few times here in the United States. But really wanna kind of dive do a bit of a deeper dive into your story and your history. And, you know, also your present and kind of what you're thinking about with your role at Vieti and, you know, how things have changed and how what the future holds. Yeah. Sure. Will be it will be a great pleasure to share with you what, what mean, what, the yeti mean for me and, what, these were, the wine, the vineyards and the wine were mean, mean for me. So I'm totally available to what you wanna know. Fantastic. Great to you, Jenny. Virginia, let's get started. We'll just talk a little bit about you. Tell me a little bit about when you started at YETi, you know, when did you become the winemaker? Tell us a little bit about your path starting with, I believe, you're an inological school back in high school. So if you can expound on the expand on that just a little bit for us. Yeah. Sure. So, in in, in next September will be for me the twenty third harvest in the city. So I'm forty two years old. So is, I spent a year more than half of my life And, it's it's very, very difficult to say when I became, the winemaker because I don't have a right moment. So it's not, you know, it's not, on, off now. To be winemaker in in one day. I think, was, was a great, growing process that, happened to me in this fantastic company. I was, so, so lucky to meet the this company when I was, so young. And, I love to describe my my my my evolution. In the eighty as a long, a long stair. Now, you know, with a lot of steps, but all the steps are are the same higher. And, we have to do one by one, day by day, and, to have the possibility to do all these steps side by side, with people as Luca Curado until two years ago or, Mario Cordero that was the other family that, that owned the the the company until the two thousand sixteen. Was amazing and was, was was was, I I think I was very, very lucky to meet these fantastic families and, to brief the same hour that they are briefing. At, at the same time, they they were from the beginning. They were, totally available to give me responsibility, freedom, and possibility to share ideas. You know, little by little because, yeah, in in our job, as all the jobs that that that are in the world, you need a lot of experience. But especially in our job, when where you have to to to face, with the mother nature every year. Every year is different. Every year, you learn a lot, but every year, you you wrong a lot too at the same time. So I think was, was a kind of, long growing. And, I'm very, very proud to to be in this, in this, in this position, in this, in this, place now. No? No. Absolutely. Absolutely. Eugenil, did you know when you started? Did you have an idea of the importance of where you were, where you happen to be working? And also for yourself with your career, did you think this was going to be something you did for as long as you've been doing it? Was it, or was it just more of a you were just curious about it initially? Yeah. I I was not so, so, so, Chad. When I stopped it in India, I said, oh, okay. I'm in, in the right place. Fantastic view from the terrace. But after some days, I try to to understand more and more and more about the wines, but especially about the vineyards. And, when I I I I was totally surprised about the the quality of the vineyards that, that, that the etiquette can manage. So this was, is, I think, really, the the most added value that VIP can can show to to to to the world, now, to the people, you know, over the world. And, at the beginning, for me, was not easy to to understand this, this fantastic, treasure, this fantastic, potential, I don't know. I can explain because my English is not so so deep. But, so this was really the most impressive part for me that the vineyards were amazing. And so, you know, when when the vineyards are great, it's easier to make a great wine. Of course. Now let me ask you since you brought up the vineyards. Can you talk a little bit about the changes you've seen? I know Vieti has acquired new vineyards over the years. Obviously, you have been there for twenty three years now. Talk a little bit about the changes, what's new, vineyard wise, and we'll, you know, we'll jump back to our prepared questions if we have to, but I kinda wanna follow along on this path for now. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. So about vineyards, historically in vietti from, from the beginning, and the beginning mean, for vietti, the first year of the nineteenth century, so, the the the the family, I love I love to the describe, in in some sometimes I love to describe VETI, with one word that is vision. Because they were visionary, from the beginning to continue to invest in in in vineyards to invest in in soil, to invest in land. And, today, we are able to to manage more than eighty five hectares of vineyards that are not just in Langa in Barolo region, but, we have vineyards in Arrowero region to make our Arnese. We have vineyards in Barbaresco region. We have vineyards in Asti region for our Barbera Dasty. We have been here also in Coli Thortonese to make our Coli Tortonese, Dertone timorazo. So this is, this is, this is really our, our vision, our way of continuous growing in term of of commitment of, investment. For example, in the last five, six years, we invest a lot of money in the in the vineyards. We bought the vineyards as, Charecio, as Mumbiliero, as Rabaya, in Barbaresco, as La Costaa, and, Moscow in Montforta, as Mariana in Saralanga. So fantastic crew that, now are in our portfolio. And so is, is natural to to to have the the growing of the quality in our wines too at the same time. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Eugenio. Fantastic. Thank you. Since you touched on, you know, Cereco, Monvielero, can you talk a little bit more about the crew? This idea of crew vineyards, Crewiola, how this all started? How it's changed. I think, obviously, not only for YETi, but I think in Piamonte, in in parallel, in general, the huge role is how how it's changed. I think the wine world in general. If you can talk a little bit about that, that would be fantastic. Yeah. Sure. So, you know, the the our our history in in Barolo is, was until the sixty, the sixties to make this wine, the Barolo wine as a mix of different vineyards. So same grape variety that is always Barolo, but different vineyards. And, from the sixties, I think, people as Alfredo Curado and the other three, four producers in the region, they start to understand as in this region to discover which is really the, the most important quality, why we are so special in this region. And I wanna explain this because I think it's very, very important. You know, now we talk about the crew, we talk about the difference between the single vineyard. We are we are became a fantastic specialist of vineyard. But, when you talk about the difference, you have to remember that, the difference that you have, from one vineyard than the other is due basically from three things that are, foil that are the microclimate and the ends of winemaker and win growers. So, I think Alfredo and many other these other producers, they start to understand these. As, they as so they they start to to think as they can exalt this difference. And, you know, about the soil, you can you can do nothing because soil is soil is different. And in fact, in the wine, I think, in thirty percent, forty percent, maybe. Then in this region, we have this, peculiarity that is, this many different small valley that create different climate conditions. You know, as long they are geographically speaking, we have a lot of this small valley. We have different steepness. We have different hour of sun per day. We have different exposure. We have different wind conditions in every place. And so, this plus the soil and plus our ends, so the management of vineyards and then in the cellar, the winemaking process, we we we we are able to create this this great difference that then you can find in in the glass. Daniel, thank you. This is the do we can do a little more of a dive, I think, here. I mean, I know most of the people listening here have, you know, been fortunate if I suspect to have actually visited, you know, Piamante visited and I know when we were there, when I was there with you recently when, you know, it's the what an experience to have you pointing out the crews when we're looking at them and seeing really what a small area we're talking about and how interesting it is to have this incredible variety of micro climates and terroir within this really kind of a fascinating small spot. I think it's really, really just for me, it was really mind blowing and very, very special to kind of see that and start to just scratch the surface of how different and how unique each crew can be. In your experience, any of the crews or vineyards that you find more frustrating, challenging to work with, and then versus others that are just No. I I would say not easy because I don't think anything is easy when you're growing grapes, especially the quality you guys do. But just a sense of, like, the chal some vineyards that might be more challenging for what reasons, so whether it's geograph geography, soil type, anything like that just to give us an idea of, some of the differences, the few differences. Yeah. About the the crew. So, you know, I love to compare, the crew as, you know, I have two kids and they say, okay. With my two kids, I have to be different. Because with one kid, you can you can say, oh, how are you today? How was the school? Was good. With the other, you have to be more, oh, no. No. You cannot do this. You cannot do this. And in the vineyard, sometimes it happened the same, you know, we have some really special place. And, I'm not able to say to you why but I can say that we definitely have. For example, one of these is, Rockari Castigliano. You I think you personally know where is a rock And, for us, this place, represent not just our first historical single vineyard crew. Absolutely. That's the Alfredo Alfredo made in sixty one. But at the same time, in this area, there are special conditions. This is due to the soil. This is due to the climate. This is due to some magic influence. I don't know. But in rocket, it's always easier to work than in other then in other crew. So, you know, we can talk about other fantastic crew that we manage as Brunate or Chariquio. They are so close in on La Moraisil because they are just, four hundred, five hundred meters, one from the other. And, in this two crew, you have to use two different way of management in the vineyards because, In Brunata, we always find more intensity, more brightness, more, as I can explain, more, some sun sensation in Brunate. In Cherokee, there is always more elegance, more finesse in term of fruit, in term of flower sensation. And so it's it's normal for us to, to manage differently, you know, so, you know, probably many times in Brunate, you can leave also one or two bunches more on a plant because, you know, you you will have always, also a fantastic in tell intensity, a fantastic concentration. In Syracuse, we prefer maybe to to leave one one bunch less to have more intensity but with a fantastic elegance. And, Eugenio, I'm assuming this is also constantly changing, you know, throughout the growing season, vintage to vintage. I'm assuming that you are constantly there monitoring And, you know, you have an idea a sense of, how you think things are gonna go, but then you also just have to be prepared constantly for things to change. Yeah. Definitely. As I mentioned before, we work with mother nature. And, in the last, twenty and plus years, you know, I think the biggest climate change that we can feel in the region is that, we have, year, career, more I can explain more, extreme events. And so you must be flexible and, how you can be flexible. To be flexible, you you have to learn from your, your, your, wrong things that you did in the past. You learned from your mistakes? Yes. For your mistakes. Sorry. And, for example, if I think, about two thousand three Vintech that was a very, very challenging Vintech for the region, and, we were coming out from a two thousand two. That was, a very cold and with a lot of rain with hail vintage. And in two thousand three, we had, totally the opposite, warm, drive vintage. So from this, extreme vintage will learn something, you know, and, we can apply some skills that will learn in these conditions. For example, to give you an example, the the the green harvest. The green harvest now is, in a we do green harvest in three times. The first is in mid July, then in beginning of August, and then in the end of August, As this, we can know how is the summer. But many, many years ago was not the same. We were more focused on a number of bungees per per plan. And so, if you if you start to adjust with this number, you cannot be the, flexible to the climate conditions. I don't know if I answered to to your question. No. No. I think you did. I think what you're, from what I'm understanding, and I think what we've talked about in the past as well is simply being able to, you know, you're working with what mother nature gives you, what the vineyard presents, as well as, assuming the weather conditions, the past several vintages have been a little bit more extreme where you're seeing a lot of different changes and you've had to adapt. And just be prepared for anything in a lot of ways. Yeah. I think, that if you wanna add one thing, is that, the real climate change for us in the last twenty years was, the months of September. Because, definitely, now September is, is a summer month in the region. And, this, impact, positive, in in a positive way on, on our wine, grape and wine production. Because, as you know, in September, is the months of the ripeness of the fruit. And, if you compare, we love to comparing the region decades per day cuts. And if you compare the last two day cuts to the day cuts of sixties or seventies, for example, in the sixties and seventies, we just had two, three fantastic vintages per decals, then probably four, five, bad, and the two, three normal. Now we can we can really say that in the last two decades, we just had probably one that was very, very difficult to image. Right. But all the other were normal or or fantastic vintages. So I think the impact of September really make a great difference to to this region. And because of this, changes in September, is it how is it affecting your harvest time? When are you picking? Yeah. You know, the average time of picking for us for our best for the for our Nebula is was always from the last week of September to the fifteen, eighteen, twenty maximum of October. Okay. Yeah. For example, in, twenty three, we pick in, not late, but in never in a medium, time. We picked at, the beginning of October, five seven eight, October. In two thousand twenty two, we picked, very early. In, twenty from twenty to twenty seven of September. Wow. Okay. Can we talk a little bit, Eugenio, about, you know, people think Vieti, they think, they think, Nepio. And I think here in North America, I know in my hospitality days, we always talked about, oh, Barberas, like, you know, it's not as important. It's delicious. It's fresh. It's a lot less complicated. You know, it's delicious. It's what people in Piamonte drink when they're waiting for their barolo or Nebula to age. But can you talk a little bit about Barbera in the history of Vieti? Some of those unique vineyards you have. And I guess the role it plays, you know, at Viette, and then, you know, your everyday, life is the winemaker and kind of, you know, just a little bit of, a little bit of background on how important Yeah. Sure. You know, Barbara, for us historically, and for me too, is probably my my best my best wine in term of, of tasting and, and, food pairing. But, this is me. So in yeti, as I mentioned before, we were visionary. And, also, with Barbara, I think we were visionary because in, in the, in the eighties when, Alfredo decided to to continue to invest in Barbera, in the region, in in this region, in Barolo region, was a kind of crazy decision because, in this region, many people, they they they they they replanted a lot of barbera and the Dolceto in the But, we we we recognize the that our place where we where we add, Barbara, we're the best place in the region. And so we decide to maintain, to keep planted in Barbera this area. For example, if I think about the Scaroni, you know, Scaroni is a an MGA is a crew of Barolo. But at the same time is, our most important Barbara. We have a big plot that is just below our cellar in Castillo Foleto. And, in eighty nine, we replant partially this vineyard And we continue to replanting Barbara. And, so now we have the possibility to manage two, the two vineyards here in Corona, one that is planted in eighty nine. And the oldest one that was planted in nineteen eighteen. So from the oldest part, we produce our Vigna Verbera that is, that just four thousand bottle per year. So it's very, very small production. And, with the eighty nine vineyards, we produce our Venus caron. So they are different because as you can imagine, from these old vines, you can just have, a small amount of grave. You have a great concentration. You have a great complexity and a fantastic potential aging. From Corona, we also have a good potential aging, but We have, more freshness, more, fluid sensation. But I wanna spend more, word about the potential aging of Parper because, you know, Nebula is very famous, for his potential aging because, you know, you have in Nebula acidity, good acidity. You have a lot of turning and good alcohol. This three things are very important for the aging of the wine. But in Barbera, we also have, good acidity that is also higher than Biola. We have good alcohol that many times is higher. And, we also have tenants less than the viola, but we still have we also have. So also in Barbara, we have the perfect conditions for aging this wine. Okay. And, yeah, and, another fantastic barbera for us. As you know, is the barbera dust. Barbara, our barbera dust is in Aliano Therme, is the name of the village, And the the the vineyard is La Crena. He's a ten hectares vineyard that, is in a fantastic place. It's a South's exposure. And, normally, the Barbara that are coming from are a bit more intense, are a bit more concentrate, are a bit more on the on this dark fluid sensation. You can fill in this wine. But, at the same time, they can age, incredibly. And, you know, Marco, we had also together some old bottle of his wine. And Oh, I remember. Sure. Yeah. No. I've been fortunate enough to taste some of those older Baderas, you know, twenty, thirty year old bottles and just left completely amazed and astounded at how they held up and the beauty and the they they retain freshness, which is not something you would normally associate or think about when you're talking about better that's, you know, twenty, thirty years old. Really, really fascinating. And so the the La Credena VINiers, we're talking age of the vines. What are what's what's the approximate or the range in the age of the vines? So the oldest part that is one actor was planted in nineteen thirty two, and the the youngest part was planted in ninety five and ninety six. When we bought this land. So we're talking about a range in age from almost a hundred year old vines for some of your Bambana. A range of sorry? Almost one hundred year old vines. Easily, eighty, ninety years old, some of these vines. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Unbelievable. That is remarkable. And and what is what is it about Barbera grown in Barolo that to you makes it so unique that creates this, like, special, obviously terroir, but if you could expand on that a little bit, like, what makes it so special? Yeah. Unicity of, Barbara in Barolo land, is due to the soil, you know, because, our soil in Barolo region is, is a soil that in, in the, in the, in the deepest part of the soil, we have these sandy rock that today, they are so so close and so, and they they can save a lot of water and a lot of humidity. So this is very, very important for all the growing season of, of the dinners because, especially in our region, in our region, we have a lot of seasonality of, array of rain. So normally in springtime, we have a lot of rain, but then, sometimes, it can happen that, during, the summer, in June, July, August, and also September, sometimes can happen that we we don't have no one drop of rain. And so to have the possibility to maintain this humidity, this freshness in the soil is amazing. It's very, very important for the freshness of the fluid. When, when is, when is, when it's time to pick. And, I think also, especially if we are talking about Scarone, the exposure is is fantastic because it's east for the dimias Carone, So the the the youngest part of Corona, and this East South East for Vignavecchia. So East gives, you know, the the morning sun gives, to the wine more freshness give to the wine more elegance, more finesse, and the the south exposure give to the wine more intensity. And, so it's for this that in Vigna, we have a fantastic mix and discovering as corona, we always have more freshness, more elegance, more verticality. This is really, typical from the Barrera from Barolo region. This verticality. In term, if you compare to us the region, where normally all the Barbera are planted in South exposure. So you have more warm sensation, more, dark fluid, ripe sensation. Thank you, Daniel. Virginia, wanna go off script a little bit. I have a question for you. A word I hear a lot now when people are looking talking about wine, what people are enjoying with the market, with consumers, wine buyers, the word freshness comes up a lot. And I don't remember hearing that word a lot, even ten, fifteen years ago. Could you talk a little bit about, I don't think Vietti changed its style? I don't think about it, but I think times have changed, and I think the world drinks differently now. I think consumers drink differently. Can you talk a little bit about how you think wines have changed? Words like freshness and approachability. I think I hear a lot more. And I don't know if you agree, but I'm just wondering about your view about how things have changed a little bit and you know, what you're bottling and what people people wanna drink. Yeah. I think it's a combination of, of things, this change, ma'am, because for sure, people now people wanna wanna drink, they wanna buy a bottle, and they wanna drink this bottle. They don't wanna put this bottle in in in his cell up and, forget that that that they are for, I don't know, how how many years. And, and so this is the the, you know, this is the big change of the word, in general, you know, with the, with the social with all, that is two more, more fast faster and faster and faster, and everybody everything must be more ready. Right. But, in our region, in our region, especially, I think, if you we talk about the biola, so barolo and barbaresco and the biola too, the impact of the climate change, help us a lot about the drinkability of this wine. Because now many times, tenants, are more ripe. So, it happened many times that, when you walk, we walk in the vineyard to taste the grapes, in, close to the ripeness, close to the picking time. And, so we we love to taste the the the seats. You know, the seats are full of standing. And, many times, when you crunch, these seats, you can really feel this rightness of ten. So, you know, you have some chocolates, dark sensation in the mouth, cacao sensation in the mouth. And when you have this kind of timing, this ripeness of ten minutes, is it's easier is easier to manage the verification also. And, the wine is will be more balanced, will be more integrated in term of standing. This help a lot. And then also in term of, vilification and aging, you know, we passed some years, fifteen, eighteen years ago. Where we were more influenced by, different using of Oak. This is sure. But, at the same time, we are also more influenced by different way of, of, winemaking as, for example, the day of fermentation. Now I think, we found our balance and our way because, we continue to use, both big cask, especially for Barolo, for Nebula. But at the same time, Barrique, we use a lot of Barrique for our Barbea, for example, because you need to be also in this more flexible because if you think about Barbara, Barbara, when he's young, it's very difficult to approach because he's, metallic, he's a row, he's difficult to drink, when he's young. And you need more use of oak, for example, of the small oak that give to the wine a bit of more micro oxygenation. So give to the wine more roundness. And, I think this combination of things create this, the wines that we are, producing now. Thank you. Eugenio, you know, I wanna move on to the whites, but I have a quick question, or maybe not, because, obviously, there's so much we can talk about today. But something I wanted to discuss was I know, obviously, Yeti makes Bab Marresco as well. And I know you have a newer well, a new vineyard for Vietti that you've only had for, I think, for the, over the past few years. And I believe the your first vintage has only released this year, I believe. Am I correct? Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. Sure. In Bar barbaresco, we we are an historical producer of barbaresco because our first bottle of barbaresco was produced in sixty four. Right? I mean, I don't think people remember that. They always think about Barolo with Vieti, but I think they forget about Bar Barescos. Yeah. And it's also for this that we are able to make, to produce, and bottle Barbaresco in Barolo region, not as vineyard because the vineyards, you must do have vineyard in Barbaresco region. But you can, vinif we can vinifie, Barbara, in baroque region because we are historical producer. And, in the last, especially, in the last six years, We we spent a lot of, energy and a lot of money to, in in Barbara area because we bought in two thousand eighteen, three actors in Roncalia, that is a fantastic MGA in Barbara, And, in two thousand nineteen, we bought, Una Jornata. We say in in in Italy, that is, that mean, zero point four hectares around. And, yeah, in Rubaya. So, you know, Rubaya is probably one of the top three crew in, in Barbara region. And also for us, historically, is so important because Alfredo, in, in the eighties, he made two or three dintages of, Barbara, and then he lost the possibility to to continue to to to rent this vineyard, but yeah. Oh, fat. Wow. I did not know that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So that's for this, that for us was was amazing to have the opportunity to buy this, this this vineyard And, also, the label is the old one that we used in the eighties. So it was another fantastic story about about Oh, so this was more a way of almost reconnecting with your past for being Yeah. Fascinating. It was a kind of closing of a circle. You know. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And how has your experience been with BarBaresco? What can you tell us about some of these newer vendors for you? Yeah. You they're so so close, but so different because, especially in wrong wrong carrier is a surprising video because, it's not probably one of the famous, the most famous crew. But, during all these, these years, will I love to to drink many, many different producers from the region. And one that I love to drink for for Barbaresco is always, for the recall, for the recall, may make, a fantastic barbares Coroncale. I was also impressed by this wine from his elegance. His finance, in term of, flowers sensation. There are always this kind of rose sensation in the nose. And then the surprising is in the mouth because so, you know, with with this nose, you say, we'll be a very easy wine, very simple, very weak wine, and then no. It's totally the opposite. In the mouth, it's amazing. There is always this great complexity of tannin, a great, integration of tannin at the same time. So it's, it's a fantastic vineyard. Three hectares. And, we just produce, six, seven thousand bottle per year. And with all the other wine that we produce from these vineyards, we we blend this wine with our, Barolo de classified to make our lung and the other per bottle. So this vineyard improved also a lot the quality of our per bottle. Absolutely. When you're using that fruit to go into your language, that's pretty special. Yeah. Eugenio, thanks. I wanna move on a little bit. We're gonna you know, we have we have a little bit of time, and we haven't even touched on the whites yet. And I wanna talk about a little bit about the history of Arne East with Vieti and the important role that Vieti has played with Arnees. And then also we'll touch a little bit on Timorazo, which is a newer project for Vieti and for you. And we can talk about that as well. But, maybe talk a little bit about that in the east and the history with Vese, the role it plays. And again, I also think sometimes people forget about, you know, how important white wine can be in Piamonte. Yeah. You know, Piamonte is, is a red region, but, We also have, some really, really interesting white. One of these is, one of those is, is Arne is definitely, Arneza, for us to represent our historical white because Alfredo selected the this great variety, in the middle of sixties when, no one make Arnais in hundred percent a rare or nice. So in it start to collect, some grapes from rare. So rare, you know, we can divide, divide our area, the south of Piedmont, in two banks that are divided by the Tonaro River. The right bank is, Barolo, Bararesco, asti region, and the left bank is Royal. So ROero, is, also the youngest soil that we have in the region. And, we have a lot of sand. So we have, the perfect conditions in Royalo to grow fantastic fruit. As a strawberry as, apple pears and, a lot of fruits, but at the same time, a lot of, great, great vineyards because, there, is, the soil is fantastic to grow white wine as Arnaise. Because you have a mix of elegance because Arnaise, I think is, is not an aromatic variety, but in the nose, you can find in Nanesa, a great expression of fluid, of fruitiness, of freshness. And, in the mouth, as especially in our eyes, when where we we love to pick a bit earlier than usual, we love to keep more acidity to preserve crashes also in the mouth. And we love to to to to to drink this wine as as aperitivo, you know, as a fresh food as a raw fish, this kind of of food. And, also, in term of verification, it's easier if you compare to timor us. We just do stainless steel for a nice, just three months in contact with the lease, and then in the beginning of the year, we bottle the wine. And can you talk a little bit about, we do have some time. I wanna talk a little bit more now about timorazo, which I think I know here in the United States, we're seeing more and more timorazo. And I know Vietti. I believe the first vintage was twenty nineteen. Can you talk a little bit about that and, you know, a little bit of the history and what brought Vietti there and your experience with it as well? Yeah. So, timorasta, is, an unusual white, for the region and for Italy, I think. I think, you can compare this white to some other two, three wine, white wine from Italy that have a great potential aging. I think you can compare to some, fiano, some verdicchio, some tree land or maybe. So the the peculiarity of timorasso is, is the the great, great potential agent. But, was, great variety that is very, very difficult to manage in vineyards. So this is the reason why, in, many years ago, people decide in Koli Tortonese area that is hundred kilometers East direction to us, they decide to replant with the other grape variety because it was too difficult to manage. And, was not so re really able. So with, not so big amount of grape in the vineyards. But, from the from the end of eighties, some historical producer of the region as Barkarmasa, as Claudio Marieto, they restart to rediscover this grape variety. And now, a lot of, wine producers from Langa, they moved there to invest in this wine. Because it's an unusual wife. Because, the pH of the Marasso is really the secret of this wine, I think. PH is very low, and, the sensation that you can fill in the mouth is unique. You cannot expect this sensation in the mouth when you taste this wine. I think if you taste this wine in a black glass, you can see you you you can be confused, between red and white. You say, which wine is this? And, also in terms of wine? Yeah. Yeah. I have to try that. That's fascinating. Never done that with all my wine friends. That's, like, it can be a fun game to play. You have to try. We'll be very, very interesting. And, also in term of winemaking is is a big challenge for us. It's is always a big challenge, especially for me. I spent a lot of time in this project that India started in two thousand seventeen. So now we are still experimenting a lot of different way of verification. But, for example, we we discover that, one container that is amazing for us for this wine is, the ceramic. We never used before ceramic in our cellar, and, we start to use, with this white. Why? Because, timorasso, is a very natural grape variety. So in term of, nose sensation, it's not so it's not aromatic. It's not so expressive. It's not so fluidly. It's not so flower sensation. But, it needs, continuously micro oxygenation. And in ceramic, you can have a fantastic micro oxygenation very, very slow. Because, if you compare, for example, stainless steel, ceramic and cask, we can say that, in term of micro oxygenation, stainless steel is zero because it's totally closed. Cast is ten and ceramic is two. So it's very slow, but it's totally neutral. So this is the real important thing of ceramic. And, And, Virginia, are you using all three for the timorazo currently? Yeah. We use the stainless steel, ceramic, and cask. Cask represent just ten, fifteen percent. Is an old, big cask of ten years. And, ceramic represents now more than fifty percent. But, we still also use, yeah, we still also use stainless steel. Because in stainless steel, you keep more freshness, more verticality in the wine. And then we'll mix. And then about the morassau, you know, we we bought the land in, sixteen and seventeen. We planted the vineyards. And now we start also to select the first crew. We we are still working on, but Oh, wow. That's exciting. Will be a new another new fantastic project for VIP for the next years. The crew of the morass. Oh, very exciting. And do you think the ellevage there will be the same or you're still trying to decide? The ellevage at the beginning the same, then we do an extra ellevage in stainless steel. For some months. And then we will do on this wine, one, extra year in bottle instead of the of the classic thingoras. Oh, that's very exciting. Good day. So what when when will the first release come out? Would you would you guess? Yeah. We'll be next year with Next year. Very exciting. Yeah. With the twenty two v integers. Yeah. Maybe the first one. Well, that's people are gonna be start asking me about this right away. So people are very excited. Yeah. Well, Daniel, since you we talked about ceramic a little bit, are you using ceramic in any of the reds? Is there some, you know, if you can talk a little bit maybe about experimenting with things at YETy and how, you know, You're obviously so based in tradition and the history. But I suspect you're constantly always pushing the envelope of it and challenging yourselves and wanting to learn. The ceramic play a part in any of the reds or any plans for the future. Yeah. As you know, all the big changes are started from the small changes. No? So, also about this, we we are continuously experiment on the red different humidification, different containers. And, yes, we I started to use also in the last two years, some ceramic I think, at the so we are at the beginning of the experimentation. I don't wanna be I don't wanna say, something that done in maybe in two, three years, I would say the opposite. So But, he's also interesting because, about ceramic, the most interesting thing is that he's totally neutral. And as, we, we discussed before, you know, we we have to exalt now more and more the the identity of the different dinners of the different grave variety. And so if you can say that if you cannot respect, the great variety is always better. But, Cask is, is, too important for the aging because, you know, oxygen, in winemaking, is our best friend, but at the same time, the worst enemy. Absolutely. We have, we have to manage well oxygen. And is the only way that we have to to age to to give the more complexity, to give more, integration and more drinkability to to our wines. So we need different tools as a cask, as a ceramic, as concrete, as a stainless steel tool, but we always have to to play with the how they can say, with with balance and with the respect with our, with our grades, with our wine, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Virginia, we've only got a couple of minutes left So I don't wanna cut you off, but I've obviously we we could tell we could have gone for two hours today. Yeah. Sure. Mhmm. Can you talk just a little bit, I guess? Because I don't wanna end up cutting you off, but talking a little bit about, you know, climate change, sustainability, how overall, what are you what are you seeing if you can give us a few key things, differences you've noticed, the past ten, fifteen, twenty years, and how you've adapted a little bit, like, one or two good examples. One one or two examples that we can kinda get a better sense of what it's like for you. I think if, you so I'm sitting here to to to look our our ears and, they look they look totally green. So twenty years ago was not like this. We used a lot of more chemicals. Now I think, we did a great, a great, and a big step up on these. So, and this is very, very important. But at the same time, we have to to fight every year with this, crazy climate. For example, if you if you think about this year, about the twenty four season, was amazing because we had a lot of rain from February to now. Also today was a rainy day in the region. And, so, you know, you are you you have to be flexible also about these and also about your mentality. But you don't have to lose the the main and the most important focus that is the respect of our soil, not just for us. But also for the next generation because I love to describe us as the guardian of the vineyards for these years, you know, for maybe other twenty or thirty years, I I will love to be here. But then I will be the moment from for other people. And if you if we prepare the the the the soil, if we prepare the region for them in a good way, it would be easier for them to continue to make fantastic wines, fantastic grapes, and, to continue to be recognized in all over the world as one of the most important, reach, win win region. Yeah. I think so. Well, Jenny, I think that's a really great and, you know, poignant place to stop. I think it's, you know, you're having, you know, not just to paraphrase how important it is to realize, you know, you're leaving it behind in better condition for the next generation and for Yeah. This is the most important thing. Yeah. This is not something that you own. It's not a possession. It's something that you're you're looking after this just for the next, you know, the next group, the next generation, whoever is fortunate enough to follow along. And I think it's something that I think more and more people in our industry and, you know, in the wine world are really, really considering and, really listening to that. And I think really taking it a lot more seriously than they did in the past. Yeah. Definitely. Cool. Eugenio, this has been the real pleasure for me. I mean, obviously, we have talked a lot, but it's been so nice to kind of do a bit of a deep dive with you and learn a little bit about more about you and Vieti and looking back, but also really looking forward as well. And getting a nice three sixty issue of, everything you were doing. Oh, boy. It's such, such, terribly interesting conversation. Marker, you did a fabulous job in Elgenio. After twenty two years there, I mean, I, obviously, I think we could have definitely gone another hour of this. I've never personally visited Pieti. I'm going to do that one day very, very soon. And thank you so much for everything, Graciete, and we're going to unfortunately have to sign off because our time has come to a close. So hopefully Listen to the Italian wine podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, HimalIFM, and more. Don't get to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. 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