Ep. 2041 Stacey O'Donal interviews Alessandro Griccioli | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And Walmatikazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineetri dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording of Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Clubhouse Ambassador Corner on Italian One Podcast. This is our one hundred fifty fifth episode so far. I am Leica Caparas, and I am the producer of Italian White Podcast. And I am introducing our Italian One Ambassador. Stacy on behalf of Stevie because she is now on a meeting today. Hi, Stacy. How are you doing? I'm doing very good. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. And before we proceed, I wanted to actually introduce you to our audience today. There's so much people in the room, but people from around the world, they'll listen to Italian One Podcast Clubhouse Ambassador's corner because now it's a time zone that's fitting for US side, also for Italian side, but not in Asia. Yes. It's recorded, and it will be up on Italian Podcast. Stacy has been working in the restaurant industry for about twenty years. And after nurturing her passion for wine, she became a certified sommelier with the Court of Master sommeliers a few years ago. So since two thousand seventeen, she has been dedicating herself to the study of Italian wine from all sites. From the history and tradition to the climate struggles and consumer preferences. She now also holds the title of Italian wine investor and Italian wines color. Her goal is to work in Italy and to help share her passion for these amazing wines, but common and obscure with as many people as possible. So I'm kind of curious, like, why did you specifically choose just Italian wine? Or did you have some other preferences like French wine or Portuguese wine, so on? So working in the industry for so many years, I was able to try a lot of wine, smaller around the world. And it wasn't until I was studying to become a certified sommelier that I met a friend of mine who had worked in, Northern Pemonte and had helped work on a little small family vineyard and did a harvest with them for a few weeks. So he set me up with them And I got the opportunity to go on to Italy for the first time, and this was in twenty seventeen. And that was pretty much the turning point for me when I started falling in love with the countryside, with the wine, the culture, the food, and I pretty much just took it on from there. My preference on wine personally as well. I mean, I I don't think that any other region quite encapsulates the the culture of wine that Italy does. You're very lucky to start your wine experience with I mean, for the harvesting in Piamonte, it's really, I guess, the best region to go to because, like, there's a lot of wineries around, and it's really the barolo and barbaresco and so on. It's amazing. Yes. It is. Now that we have, you're doing your first clubhouse with us. So tell us why you yeah. Why did you select Alejandro as your favorite producer for this first club house? Yes. So I had the opportunity to be in Italy last fall, and I was first introduced to the wines of Montecchiato. Wine making at the estate has been around for hundreds of years at Montecchiato However, Elisandro basically began in twenty, in two thousand five, created kind of the boutique family wines. And to me, the wine itself is really true expressions of the land and for the passion that that creates them. He does both the classic wines, they're the chianti, the brunei, the San Jose based wines that you'd expect from the Tusican region, but he also creates some kind of unexpected blends that he does as well that are very unexpected and very crowd pleasing in my opinion. And I do appreciate the boldness that weiner producers have right now to kinda create wines off of things that are not expected. Right. And, when you visited him, was it also the first time you tasted his wines? It was. And I actually did not meet Aliceandro until, video chat a few months after I went. Okay. So tell us about your discovery of the wines of Montecala winery. Oh, of course. So like I said last fall, I was out there for about three months. I was studying the language and the culture of the Pescan region. I was in Montipulciano, actually. And I was attending an Italian school there, which is fantastic. Mhmm. And my last few days, I was gonna spend in Sienna, then Fedensei, and then come home. Okay. And while kind of going around the town of Sienna, I found a I think it was just an article or a brochure about Montorijione, which is the small little commune on the top of the hill. And it has towers surrounding it, and it almost looks like a crown on the top of the hill. And it's infamously mentioned in Dante and Fair enough. That seems really cool to me. And I went to the town and wandered around for the day and had lunch and Naturally, I stopped at the Anoteca that was in town because as a wine lover, what else would you do? Right. And they were the ones that produced the Montecchiato wines. So that was my first experience with them. And I met, a Sonya named Mauricio, who worked there. He he humored me by letting me attempt by Italian, which was fantastic. While looking through the brochure, I actually saw that they had horseback riding, Right. And it's something that I've always wanted to do as a tourist in the tuscan countryside. What else did you wanna do then cohort that riding through an Italian vineyard? Right. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. So I booked it. And the next day I went down and I got the opportunity to go horseback riding. So I met Alejandro's, fiance who's wonderful. Mhmm. And, Seyla, who is the head of the wine program there. And now I'm actually going out there in a few days, and I'm gonna work with them for the rest of the season. So I'm very excited. That's great. Okay. So now we have our Italian wine ambassadors listening in. Can you tell us what are the learning objectives that we should be expecting from this interview? Yeah. So one of the main things I really am curious about myself And I'm guessing some of the other investors might be as well, is about new vineyard selection and management. Elisandro just planted a new vineyard outside of Montecody Joni, so I have some questions about that. He is also organic. Everything's organic there since twenty ten. So little bit of of on the organic farming difficulties, things with climate change, and how all of that kind of fits together right now, and also the connection that he has with the community, both local and international. He does some great labels with a local artist, And then like I said, I'm going out there in a couple of days to help him with the rest of the season. So he definitely has an ability to allow the international community to interact with him as well. Before I meet myself, I wanna give a shout out to Some of our ambassadors here. We have Cynthia. She's also our our host for our voices. We have Hugh priest, Patty. Hi, Patty. Elena. And then earlier, we also had Alicia Barrera and also Marco Abanesse. So, yeah. Okay. So now I'm going to mute myself, and you can start your show with Alejandro. Okay. Thank you. Alright. Ciao, Alejandro. Ciao. How are you doing? It's your turn now. You're gonna be put on the spot. So, a little bit, I'll introduce Elisandro. He's been dedicated winemaker at Montecado Estate Canti organic farming since two thousand five, as I said. He's very passionate about crafting exceptional organic wines, and he combines his love for food and photography to capture the essence of his work with the beauty of the Tus and landscape. He also collaborates with the LaEcha brand. I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing that incorrectly. Yeah. Yeah. Conducting like, okay. Thank you. Conducting workshops with renowned masters. And on his estate, Elisandro offers hospitality, horseback riding, truffle hunting, and fine dining combining his love for food and winemaking to create an unforgettable experience. So I would like to just introduce to you a little bit. Is there anything else that I have missed or anything you wanna say about Monta Kiado that I did not mention? First of all, it was pretty impressed how well my surname was pronounced by Wonderful. Eika. So congratulations, because everybody's is, like, making it wrong, but Alexander Gucci is perfect. And you said it very well. And, second, I want to thank, like, I knew to be in his ambassadors' corner. So I'm very happy today to share Montahier, my vision as a winemaker, and also the the Montahiero history, to this channel, which I found very nice. And I really hope all the Italian wine lovers will find it very interesting and they may, also come and visit us. We are very close to Sienna, Sienna Town. We are in the middle of the Chianti, classical region, and definitely is a beautiful place. So we do a lot of hospitality, Sienna is such an incredible Madevia Town will have the horse the most famous horse race in the world, the Palgo at the second and August sixteenth every year. So, I mean, we've got a lot of busy tours, but also it's a very authentic place with we will talk a lot about the history of the place with, which was already existing in the middle age. As you as mentioned, Dante Ferno, so I think that, culture history, what makes is is is the class of the is island winery. So we are we we really want to make the best, is island wines, but also we are immersed on a great history. Yes. We definitely are that. I'm gonna kinda jump right into it because, the first question that I have is actually about the winery and the history of it. You do create wines on the land that your family, as I understand, has owned for hundreds of years. However, you're not using your family's name, which is quite atypical for Italian winemakers. They usually continue on with, like, the family estate wines. So can you tell me about how the name Montecado came about including Why do you use the three, four, five on your labels? This is a very good question. So, Montecara state is there since seventeen sixty. And I think that, like, in Burgundy, the French teach us that the most important factor is the place. So, like, more than I I think that families can can go and and, like, and stay and go. But I think what really should, depict the wine is the place. In fact, the wine is is is true that it's a result of the man work, but at the same time, the most important factor is the terroir. So the soil, the place, the the history of the place. So I think that Montehear, I want people to remember Montehear at first. And secondly, our, our family, but has already said, Montejar is really the most important brand. The our brand is Montejar, which is the place, but also Terre de La Grija. He's, if you like, he's, the, the umbrella brand, and Grisha is the old name of our family. We have the main county label. It's called three four five. And three forty five stands for thirteen forty five, which was the date of birth of the ancestor of the Greek holy family. So tracking back in our family tree, we can go, until thirteen forty five with documents, And so three four five was, a nice way to, talk about the history of the family, but in a modern way. So we've got a big label, a label with a big three four five, which is the hero of the lord, three four five. So, you know, the numbers and and and art and wines are more and more connected. And so three four five are, our lucky numbers. I love that because it kind of includes the land, like you said, which, of course, is so important to grapes in general. But then it has that little nod to the family as well. So that's a beautiful thing. Yeah. And on top of that, so one of my biggest questions for you, which I think we might spend a lot of time on is your area and month of each journey. So my first question is, how did you come up about making that anotecha? Did you already have that place in mind, or was it something that you have throughout the family throughout the years? How did you land on Montetega joining? You know, for for all the friends that already came to Italy, the beauty of the region are the ancient medieval villages and castles. So to ask anybody all over easily. But if if you, let me share just talking about Tuscany, we've got plenty of those incredible places where history left a lot of traces, very visible, very tangible, traces. And other examples can be like Montepuliano, San Jimignan, or Montalcino, Montery Joni is a World Castle. It's, he's such a beauty because he's he's on top of a hill. And it's this World Castle, they are the best preserved European walls. Cause what you see right now is the same walls that you had at the foundation of the Castle Monteil Joni, which was, created in twelve thirteen. Which means eight hundred years. And then it was a World Castle, which was the latest defense of the Senate Republic against Florence against Florence, Florence and Santa were always big enemies. So we've got a one thousand his one thousand years of, rivalry and battles and and wars between the two CNN Florence. Today in football, there are still big rivals. Of course. And, so the my family wrote, part of the history of the hassle because some ancestors bought the hassle in seventeen twenty. And from that moment, so we still have some ownership inside and outside, not much, unfortunately. So, but we have a beautiful, palace where we rent, beautiful rooms. So for future visitors, it's a really nice place to come and and spend a great holiday. And, and also I put my wine shop there. It's such a special unique place. And imagine is, pretty big. There are fifty five people living inside the castle and has a shape which really remembers the, the castles you you have, I mean, the the the perfect medieval castle. It was used in assassin Creed video game. So the, yeah, the young people they they would, remember or know it because it's even in assassin creates. Wow. I did not know that. And also, the the soil there is pretty special. So is an interesting wine, wine, place as well, but we are still on the Kianti region. So it's one of the many, attractions you can see around. We are very close to Sienna. We are fifteen minutes to Sienna. So just in the middle of the hassle, we're already there were many. There are four restaurants. There are five bars and ice cream corners. So it's a place with, with a lot of activities. And to set up our wine shop there, it was a dream. Is a dream come true? He's our he's the place where we can offer to the word our wines. And we also have some food. So we we paired the wines with a lot of really nice, cold cuts and tartare selection of cheese. So it's a it's a really nice place to also have the time to, to indulge and explain our wines in in this beautiful scenario. So it's, it's a marvelous place and a great privilege to to own the wine bar inside that castle. Wonderful. And I can attest to that. It's a great place to sit and have a few glasses of wine and Yeah. And enjoy the and some food. It was quite an enjoyable day that I spent there for sure. So I can understand the the the passion that you have to have a place like that. It's beautiful. There are a lot of, presence. So I I definitely won't believe to go through anything like this, but many people that can feel some presence, they reported that some energy is felt because Okay. Managing so much history. So many is a battlefields of so many, wars, and, it was all always a military place. And so Yeah. Also, I I just like to say that there is a very special energy there, which is is, is something positive, I mean. Yes. It's almost it's it is a little, like, haunting to kinda walk around in a place like that because again, the the history is pretty significant, but it's it's a cool feeling. I think I enjoyed it. Yeah. Cool. And so I know you just planted a new vineyard out there. Is that something where you able why did you pick that area? Is is there a specific plow in that you've been having your eye on for a while, or is it something that fell into your lap? How did you find this piece of land that you just obtained? There was a appeared there is another castle called Casty Young Binibaldi and add another piece of history, which is much smaller. And around that, little castle, there was another vineyard, which is, around, ten acres. So it's small, but not not that And, an uncle of my father used to make, some bulk wine. And, you know, it's like the the movie, Quamper do. So he's he's like he's like a little place which was, pretty unknown and also undiscovered. And I remember that some wine was made there, and until, twenty years ago. So a little dream of myself was to reestablish and to plan a new vineyard there. Because I I knew that was something special. And so I I ask, great wine, French winemaker from bordeaux. Savier is one of the most renowned, winemaker, and especially studying the soil. They need a, and so he's been studying with him in the University of Bordeaux and one of the most brilliant students. And weeks of the year in two thousand and nine, we conducted, a study. So we dig on three layers on the ground, starting this soil. And, he discovered that this soil is very, very, remarkably good for wine. So, because he said it's like, Chateau Petrice, it's like the same, the same structure in terms of soil. Then, of course, to make a a good wine, the soil is just one of the many, many factors. But, I had his dream in in minds. And finally, this year, I made this new vineyard, which is for actors. It is a baby baby vine. So it's a just planted vineyard. I made eighty percent sangroveza grape and twenty percent merlot grape. And this is going to be, the new Supertaskan at, Castillo Galibaldi. So it's a new project. The location of the vineyard is is in front. It's facing the castle of Monteri John is a standing beautiful position, and, and also is is close to the, this castle, which belonged to my family since the eighteen hundreds. And, the next chapter is to restore this, castle, which has a wonderful under ground cellar. And so it's it's a brand new project, and I can't wait to to have it working. And maybe I hope to be be enabled as a winemaker to give birth to an exciting new, super task and wine, which can, be be, drunk and appreciate it by all over the world. That's wonderful. That your super tough thing that you have now, if I remember correctly, is a hundred percent San Diego Bay state. Do you have any more merlots planted on any of your vineyards or is are these the first vines that you that you have planted to merlot? It's my first time I, you know, I started in Bordeaux back in two thousand and four, two thousand and five. It was my educational field and also my my love. So I I really love Bordeaux has a town, but also the atmosphere as a student was incredible. And also, Bordeaux and burgundy wines are probably some of my favorite. And, I always planted Sandrovis and valorize low health task and varices. Because my I I thought that, you know, Marlotte, you find splendid. I think that to manage in in in the way I wanted, like, burdo style, I needed more more practice and experience. And I felt that now after twenty years of experience as a winemaker, I'm really able to valorize, any kind of grapes and This project with Merlo is is new as it is he intrigues me very much. So he will be fifty percent SanJovese and fifty percent, Merlo in the in the new blends of the Supertask. And, but it's the first time I'm making this blend. And previously, I've been only valorizing SanJovese one hundred percent and also the implanilla one hundred percent. So I can wait. You know, it's, you need five years time and, I mean, three years to produce and five years to have a full production, but the winemaker is very patient. So we Yeah. You have to do. Yeah. Was it the your choice, to put the grapes there? Is that something that you knew you wanted to plant there? Or did you have did you wait until you kind of looked at the soil and did some investigating to find out that that was gonna grow the best there. Ma'am, I was encouraged by my friend, white major Xavile Shoney, saying, this is really Petrus Pomerol, kind of style. So he said, plain summer low, and it should turn very, very well. And also I had many years because the the study was conducted in two thousand and nine. I'm just planting now in two thousand and twenty four. So there were there were many years I could really study the rootstock and, and everything's also the the disposal of the rose because this is not an easy, hill. So they were disposed in two different ways and also the the water, management. So I I really made a vineyard, which is pretty, you know, mature and and a lot of study, behind. So it's, yeah, I I can't wait to to have that bottle in my hand. Yeah. It's gonna take some patience for sure. You got a long time to wait. Yeah. But at least you've taken that step into the right direction to to get where you wanna be, which is so exciting. Yeah. I I mean, I started everything's like because two thousand and five is when I started bottling Montejar wines, but be before me, there are centuries of, winemaking, bulk wine, very traditional. So imagine that, I start to my adventure in the wine work. I started very young, and, the really beginning, there was a lot of trying. So right now, I I really I'm really feeling that I've got the experience. I've got the, expertise to make something new, something very exciting. That's great. And I think you're a really good example to kind of let everyone know the kind of patience and the kind of passion that it takes in order to get to where you wanna be. It's not something that's gonna happen in a year or two. It's gonna take time. It's gonna take a lot of hard work. Yeah. In fact, making wine for fun is possible, of course, but Yeah. I think it's an achievement of the lifestyle of, many, many years of desiring, studying, tasting other people's wines. So it's it's pretty exciting. So, I mean, it's not something you do quickly. I mean, a lot of people that are making wines are fun. I I respect. I fully respect and it's possible, of course. But I think that, also, I really feel I always felt the responsibility to pay tribute to the people before me because if you're talking about an estate who who was there in seventeen sixty, so many generations. They've been working so hard. And I really pay tribute, and, and, I've been lucky to be born, has a children, within those sharecroppers family. And those families, they really gave all their their lives for for for the place, for the countryside, for the winery. And, I, I, I love to remember them, and also my work is, I hope it to bring along a great tradition, which is also theirs. Yeah. That's and someone like me who has a passion for the Italian wine world in general That's something that I appreciate more than anything is, especially about Italian wine is the connection to tradition that is there. It's not something that, you know, has been started fifty hundred years ago. Is something that's been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years, and to be able to encapsulate that into a bottle is really cool. And I appreciate you for doing that because it makes for a great wine too. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Alright. On on the same side of maintaining vineyards, I know that you've been organic for a significant amount of time. You're looking on almost fifteen years, I believe. Right? Yes. It's two thousand ten. Yeah. Is that a choice just to maintain the integrity of fruit or why do you choose to be an organic winery? I have an agronomist consultant who, really insisted me to switch into organic. And he's advising, around one hundred, organic wineries. It's a life change. It's much more challenging. You need to adapt your work. So all your, the people working in the fields. In the vineyards, the machinery, distractors. Everything must be adapted to organic, farming. And it's very challenging. As I said, it's, every year is quite a challenge. But at the same time, it's the risk of extraction to, use only natural things, only manure algae, and there are many other organic products. But I mean, the pollution, created by Tammy Health is is is is incredible. And so, I mean, I I also believe in the very long, timing of your operation. So let's say in fifty years time, in one hundred years time, you don't introduce any chemical products. And so, definitely, you contribute to the to a better word and a healthier word. So I firmly believe in it. Also, I really like the the fact that the wines, they have a minimum of sulfites, and it's really true. And, that you don't feel headache after drinking Mhmm. Two, three, four glasses. And this is something I'm experiencing now getting older, which Yes. Cannot stand any more wines with a tons of sulfites that really make you a terrible headache. I'm getting more and more sensitive myself. So I think organic, farming is a necessity, and, is a fight as well, I guess, many, many, pracings, factors, insects, and, and fungus, you know, and, really great every year to win this battle and to remain, organic. So I think it's it's a great, great value. Also for any kind of food, but, especially for wine. This is really I repeat. It's very challenging, but I'm very, pleased that I had I had switched. He mentioned that last year, two thousand twenty three, all over Italy was pretty tragic. While next year, two thousand twenty four, so far grapes are some of the most beautiful, and I I've never seen. But two thousand twenty three was, pretty tragic. We lost ninety percent of the production. We only produce white Rosier and some the entry level can't and nothing else. And, this is why the mildew, that was created by heavy rain for three months. We go the wet spring ever. And that was a big, like, a learning curve. It was a big learning curve. And in fact, I've been adapting, I've been even hiring more more specialized people, I've been investing machinery and I've been taking everything more seriously. And this is just to say that organic farming is really challenging and to an extreme, but I see it it really did this problem helped me to interpret the nature even in more serious way. And, I have to say that I'm still very much. I'm I'm very happy to be organic. And I I think it's important to be organic and, my family is we have a very long history in the nursery business and in horticulture. So I definitely can appreciate what being organic can mean and not using chemicals and pesticides and all these other things and sticking with what has been on the land for hundreds of years and kinda letting it do what it's supposed to do. So I definitely appreciate that. I know it can't be easy to do at such a large scale. So Yeah. You you need to plan everything. You need to anticipate what is going to happen. So you really need to know your your vineyard. You really need to hold everything. It's all the operation. It's not just that you make some works, in a schedule, you need to anticipate and understanding very well whatever you are doing. This is why I need, expertise. I need, expert, like tractor drivers, all the team working the fields, they know what they're doing. And so, which means is even a cultural thing. So you need people who are prepared, and they they love what they're doing because they know and they know it very well. Yeah. You need people that are as passionate about it as you are. Otherwise, you won't be happy with what's going on. Yeah. But also, you can have bad results. So I think what I mean, everything we are talking about is what you find in the final bottle. So you are you are really wasting a passion of the great work, the fruit of a very passionate work, and, This is very important. And I think when you're drinking, you're seeping an organic wine, there's even more commitment and passion. Mhmm. Yeah. There's more appreciation from the drinker, I think, as well. And it creates such a beautiful I think to me, I think it allows the grape to really express itself, which is another reason why I'm such a fan of the old world style of creating wines where it just really lets the grape do what it's meant to do. And I love that. Yeah. So along those lines as well, one of my biggest, concerns as I'm sure most peoples are is how climate change is affecting the wine industry. In your vineyards in particular, are there things that are changing that you're noticing? Are the maturation changing with the grapes or are things not working the way that they used to? What kind of things are you seeing in your vineyards that are because of the change in climate and how hot and rainy it's been? Yeah. The the two, big constraints from the global, warming, I think are the first is the tropicalization. Which leads to heavy rains. So we've got, we didn't have such, an intense, rainy season. It was, you could have some fresh springs and, more or less fresh, winters. But, like, last year, and even this year, we got a lot of rain at the beginning of the season. So tropicalization, more tropical, you know, more so we've got, like, every rain, and this is something new. We've experienced before. The second one is the drought, which is a little the country of the first factor. So in in the recent years, we had a lot of very, very warm, summers and temperature really rise temper the the so the the, sorry, the climate, got some temperatures which were unknown before. So, those two extremes extremes must be, managed. And I think, observation. So everybody now has meteorological stations. So we need to be good, collecting data, understanding them and, finding solutions, which are machineries. The time of intervention is key, and, you really need to be, more and more able. I remember in the old times, we were not organic And there was a calendar of the chemical treatments, which were given by the the dates. It was just a calendar. So we we really didn't care about what was happening around. We just freeze it. And that was sufficient to have a perfect season. And now is is the country. You, I mean, every week, we must observe. We must be in the vineyards understanding what is going on. And, there's nothing we can do, but preventing every rein is infectious. So every time it rained, you have an infections going on of the main fungus, and you need to prevent. You make you need to spray, what you can in organic farming to to distinguish, you know, those fungus. And so is, is that is about to load. So there are some insects which are really affecting, and you need to, to to observe them understanding how the reproduction cycles of those insects are are going on during the season. And, Yeah. So, I mean, mainly, I don't think he's, if your question also includes, like, if climate changing changes are affecting the wines, I think is affecting the the organization of the the farming. But then, today wines are, like, in the past wines, we're following trends. And now it's more the ability of the winery to make the best possible wines. I think, you know, the trends are are going toward very fruity, easy drinking, wines, which also has structure, nice acidity, refreshing, very long palettes. I think this is you can find even in, great californian cabs or wines, which historically were matured in, you know, in a lot of bulk, but everything's now is getting more and more fruity. And I don't think he's, there will be more trend trends, Evelyn affecting. So I don't think the weather is affecting the wines, which are like more alcoholic or more robust. I think today, we have instruments where you can you must to select the best grapes, and you must to lead to a really high quality without being, without having to follow trends or styles. I think Today, we are talking about the the proper winery style, which is the most important factor. Right. And a lot I mean, being in a Tusian region, of course, the majority of your varieties that you have planted are San Joe Vasay. Yes. Is there are you seeing a difference in the way San Joe Vasay is reacting to the climate? Yes. San Joyce is very sensitive to the climate. And, for example, you're mentioning Bruno de Montecino, the best brunellos are, connected with the highest altitude. So you've got, for example, multi area three hundred meters on on top of the sea level. But you you have some wineries of our five hundred, I think the most extreme is five fifty fifty hundred meters. Altitude makes a great role of, bringing out the most refreshing and nicest perfumes. So this one of the factors, also, against the disease and also against the, the, the drought. So altitude is is pretty important. Like, the aspects and, and the soil composition. So, and Giovanni is so sensitive that you don't have the same policy that you find in Tuscany anywhere in the anywhere in the world. I think, especially with you have very nice mass produced wines, even nice, wines in small court. I mean, I mean, some some very high end wines, but, you don't reach the same results as you do in Tuscany. This is because the soil that the wire is so unique there. And so he's I might use this to have otherwise as much as possible the sangiovese grapes in different shapes because our Rosier with sangroveys is so joyful and easy to drink. Then we've got the entry level. He's so, refreshing. Fruity, long. And then we've got the cruise, the best wines, the brunello, the super tuscans, made with Sandra. And Sandra, you know, is is outstanding. I think for wine lovers, like, pinot noir, like, any great noble grapes, sangervice is an entire word. It's it's so it's so special, but you need to know it. It's it's not I don't think it's the most immediate. It's not like a merlot, which is so soft and an easy to drink. Tangerbez, you need to know a little bit it's a little more dry. And, timings can be firm, but Stangerbez is an entire word, and how well, Sangerbez can age. And, I'm miss Sandrove is a producer. I'm miss Sandrove is a lover. There are so many different kinds. So some, for a sommelier, is, is a magical word. It's like for Pinot noir in burgundy. So commonly here, we discover So many different countries, region, county, little. There is a great donation, and, there's so much to study about San Jose. And I hope you you are also, coming here also would be very special to you also to understand more this incredible word of the SanJOVese grapes and wines. That's what I'm hoping for. Do you think that with the way that things are going with San Giovanni, be in that Kianti and Bruno and even Vironoble, they they don't leave a lot of room for adjustment in the varieties and the blends that you create. Do you think that at some point, the dyspuntate may alter a little bit in order to allow other blends, or do you think that there's enough production still to maintain what has been around for so long? But I think that the trend now is to, to make pure sangroveza, because, before, you know, that the regional county recipe was to blend sangroveza with other stuff. Some white wine to, in increase in age the refreshing palette. And, for example, you had colorino to enhance the color, etcetera. I think with the modern techniques, with the sorting the grapes, with the pruning, with the concentrating, the the the the grapes as well. You can lead to Sanjuviso, which are very complete. They are perfect, complete wines. So I think the trend is not really much blending, but make one hundred percent. Also, I I don't think I mean, the the products, you you can develop, taste and, elegance just with with the grades we have. I mean, I would be open. I love to experiment. For example, I've authorized a special kind of tempranillo at the winery with a local name, which is Malvasianeda, but in fact it's tempranillo. And, is such, is such a special wine. So I I'm very open to create and to, bring inside the, the winery, the winery profile, some something new. So I'm I I love to be a classic producer, but I also love to to create something, something new and very special. Like, for, for example, the white we make. So I think in in the in the industry, and we are talking about small boutique organic wineries. We are not talking about mass produced wines, which would be a complete different, you know, argument. But talking about small producers, there's always space for classic, for classic wine pro production, you want always to be faithful to your origins, and there is a little bit of, space for creating something new. And, in general, I don't I don't think this is the moment to create too many new products. I think it's the moment to be, constant and to to really make, perfect sangiovese wines. Yeah. And I also think that, the consumers I mean, of course, Rosay, for example, has been rising a lot, but I think, consistency is the word I was, was looking for. Now it's time also, I think, wine, fine wines all over the world has been produced since fifty years more or less. And I think now it's time for consistency. And, also, we the styles are are pretty mature and solid. Right. And I'm glad that you mentioned you're white because there's kind of a little segue into what I wanna talk about next is your Arcada collection because you do kinda create something a little bit different, but still with great expression. So can you talk a little bit about how that became a collection for you? Arteligida, which, means liquid art is a project where, I I involved an artist, basically, to make my most creative wines. And that was a very, how do you say juvenile, when I was very, very young. So it was, an idea which was mixing a little bit of branding, passion, craziness, you know, so it was the really start. But I think that Progyny now is the one I liked the most. And, also, the artist, she has became an important artist in Italy, more and more matured. And she I mean, together was a history of a great friendship, and everything started so naturally. So it wasn't like the result of studies. You know, it it wasn't like something academic help or marketing oriented. It just happened. So, we met. Her name is Eugenia Vani. She's a great artist, and, she's exhibiting all over Europe, and I love her very much. And, so the project started in two thousand and six. So, right, when I was, starting my moving my first steps in the one word. And, I I immediately thought that I had to create something completely new. And also was, a way to to express my sales. So I always thought that making candy was important, but on the side, I made this art to liquidate a project. And, we made three products. One is the white, Arteliquita white, and Arteliquita white is a vision, of four grapes. I I'm the only one blending them together. And you've got the French and, another Verizon whole manzoni, which is a cross between riesling and, and, you know, Blanc. So with those two, I really wanted to bring a lot of perfumes. I really want to enrich the the nose of those whites as much as possible. And then I blend with two traditional tuscan white grapes, which are Tribana and Malvasia. So we've got four grapes, manzoni Trebiano Malvasia, which gives structure, refreshing acidity, a great body. So I want a wine which is so, refreshing, complex at the same time easy to drink. This is at the Artelic ridabianco, and the artist, created a bottle reverse, which which makes a glass. So very simple. But at the same time, very iconic And, I think it's still my favorite wine. More and more, I'm I'm drinking whites, and more and more, I'm I'm a white lover. And, this is really the wine. And, and, still, I, I feel I really want to to to reach a peak of of quality, and I feel I'm halfway. So I've got a lot of motivation to continue this project. On the other side, I've deleted that also, the red is, this black Malvasia Temprenejo, which has a funny story behind. In two thousand and two, before me, an old manager planted some Malvasianera, But he he didn't care about, rights in Marvazianoira, and he ruled that the rape were San Jose. And that was not legal because you cannot, like, write unofficial records another variety. And, it was b discovering that these these grapes were not sangroveza. The taste, the perfumes, the spiceness were completely different than than sangroveza grapes. And so I made this discovery. I I valorized. I gave the I even call important professors to understand, to guess what this Verizon could be. So it was a little national, an attempt to understand to guessing what it was because it was so unusual to have a winery asking for, I mean, which grade do we have? And finally, the DNA said that these grapes were tempranillo. And in fact, some analysis have been demonstrating that San Giovanni, which is a very old local variety. And tempranillo that they were matching. They were matching their DNA. So it's a little discovery in the wine world, and I decide to make a red dedicated to this to this story. And on the label, the artist put a moon which is very, very beautiful and very evocative of what the old, on sharecropper's worth was about because the people used to make wine through the Moon calendar. And also the wine so special, so spicy, full of like, beautiful hints of chocolate, and, he's he's he's really, he's really nice. And then the third product, which is entitled Artel Liquida, is the grappa, is our distilled, grappa, which is pretty interesting, is the only, spirit made out of the Malvasianeda skin, grape skins. And and there is another, piece of art, which I don't describe, but I invite everybody to ham and taste. That is pretty awesome. That that's I had no idea that that was the story behind it. I remember when I was at the cantina in Montarigione, I saw the, Artilikudoro. So and I was like, I have to try it because you're in the Tusian region drinking a hundred percent, tempranillo, and it just seems almost wrong to do. So I was like, well, I have to try it. And it was delicious. It's not exactly what you'd expect from a temporary meal, but it especially sitting in that town sipping on it. It was it was beautiful pairing. Yeah. Because you are the the Petory notes, chocolate, pepper and black fruits, but with the very refreshing, like, Sanjorie's vibe, which means more acidity, tannins and more so very, very different than Spain. But, for example, it's surprising and connecting with the previous question. San Giovanni, my, tempranillo resists so well to drought. So I think when we've got drought, he's the he's the best way to resist. And so I mean, you the that's also is connected. So, yeah, I mean, drought and climate change, one of the response could be to plan something different, like, temporarily, your, in Italy. But I think that everyone there is, making his own, special products. And, I think that Santrovia is and remain the great protagonist of our area. Right. Something else that I wanted to touch on briefly being that. I've already mentioned that I am coming out to to work with you for a few months here coming up. I I obviously greatly appreciate your willingness to kinda open up the winery to those internationally who want to experience more about the wine and the culture and everything in a region. Why do you put an emphasis on that? Cause I know that there's many people that do this with you. This is also my story, you know, It's also my story, because, I also, as I I'm also been a an international student. And also I think that, I mean, learning wine and working in the wine industry must be, something where your mind is open to any kind of international experience. I think wine is also synonymous of geography and history and, I feel that it's so important for a professional to be assimilated, but also to have been, traveling, exploring, understanding the culture of the people that they're making the wine, so I, my, myself, I've been working in, in, in some libraries abroad in France. And, also, I always had some interns, and I also always allowed people from abroad to come to the winery and help and really gain some mercy by our culture, by our history. And I think we are in touch with many, many of them. Since two thousand seven, I always, participated to international students' program. So we've been hiring, and having intern. And, for example, now at Deweinre, we have an Australian and hospitality manager. In the past, for many years, I had a French, bordeaux born, lady. So I think the wine speaks an international language, and that's for sure. And and also to have at the same time local and international people is, is absolutely special. Also, the international vibe, can really, how do you say, push the other local people to be more open, open minds. And, I think that the the wine producers who only have been tasting their own wines, older life they're missing, like, the understanding of what the people like in general. So it's it's important to be, to be very much in in his own roots, but it's so important at the same time to know other people's minds and to being to have been traveling all around. I've been learning so much from the other producers all around the world. And I think, it's such a cultural plus, you know. Yeah. Traveling always makes such a big difference to your entire experience of life. Knowing what other people are doing and and experiencing other areas is just it's life changing. I I travel as much as I can just for that reason. You can't stay in one place for too long. Yes. Exactly. So I know we're getting close to the hour, but I wanted to ask you. I other than, I know you have your a super tuscan project in the works over the next few years, but what else do you have? Like, what's your vision for the winery in the next five or ten years? What are you looking to have happened? What are your goals? As for many other staff, kind of COVID was, a point where I think I I walked up and I understood that I was how do you say I was more grown up? And I I from that point, two thousand twenty, I said to myself, now it's time to grow. To grow rapidly and not a student anymore. I'm not learning I mean, you you keep learning always, but also I really found that it was time to to move quickly and to to really became a professional able to make great wine. So I speed up my investments and also speed up my, I mean, the dream to make really good wines. And I am working more, and I see myself from this moment on a second phase in July. There was the first phase, first twenty years. We I I will make my to my my first harvesting was two thousand and six. So two thousand twenty six will be twenty years. But I feel the first, twenty years are are almost over. And in those twenty years, I've been really learning how to to make wine in the best possible way. But the next twenty years must be really the confirm and the approval. And, I also want to make this new project with a super task plan. So we must to be to create a wine which can really, inebriate the wine lovers palettes and, really get significant significant, ratings and hide points We got some ninety four, but I really want to make some ninety six, why not even more. So it will be the maturity time, and it's nice to connect your own life with the with the winery life, you know, because wines are like children. There you go. I haven't heard it quite felt like that before it makes sense. And and it's nice to start pretty young to to produce wines life force treated so you can really infuse all your own style and, everything's you can. Perfect. Well, I know we hit the twelve thirty mark. So, like, are is there anything else that you would like from us? It's already time. So I have to close-up the room quickly, but before I close-up, I really like to thank you guys for being here on clubhouse and for doing this interview. I like the insights and the reflections as well. That came up from this conversation as well as, how your creativity, Alessandra, you've given much of your creativity for the wine making and also for the wine labels and so on. So that's pretty amazing. So before I close-up the room, I wanna mention that next week, on July twenty three. We have Anna O'Buhofskaya, and she will be interviewing Roberta Bonin from Cantina. So that's it for today. And thank you Listen to the Italian wine podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts. 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