Ep. 2070 Wayne Young interviews Federico Stroppolatini  | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And Walmatikazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineetri dot com. This podcast is brought to you in association with Lata Verne for Yulie, the definitive podcast on the wines of Freelebenetia Juliet. Lata Verne for Yulie is a proud supporter of the Italian wine podcast. I'm host Wayne Young, and if you're a fan of the Italian wine podcast and wanna take a deep dive into this fascinating wine region, visit Lataverna freelee dot com or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. For today, we have our one hundred and fifty eight installment of our Club House Ambassador Corner. And we have here Wayne Young from Lateveda Fuely. I also wanted to introduce myself because people may not know me in here. My name is Laika Kaparas, and I am the producer for telling my podcast. And, yeah, I'm so happy to be part of this, conversation with you, Wayne. And, so today, you will be interviewing federico stroppola tinney. Right? I'm looking right at him. Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, federico. Alright. So before I begin, I will be introducing you Wayne. And then I'll be asking you three questions for just a briefing of what's the conversation's going to be like. So That's good. Yep. Alright. So Wayne is US expat living and three living at Sejulia since two thousand two. He is a self employed wine marketing and communications consultant, wine educator, and events coordinator, and the host of Della taverna Freule podcast. So why did you select Federico Stropolitini as your favorite producer today. Well, apart from the fact that he's got really good energy Mhmm. And he's a young and enthusiastic winemaker in Frueley, which we really need. Right. We definitely need guys. He's forward thinking enthusiastic young guys making wine here and free willy. He's the hardworking guy. He's trying to bring his family winery to the next level. Mhmm. You know, working organically. He's a great communicator. He's a really humble guy. Mhmm. You know, and he's working with these incredibly old vines. So I wanted to bring him on and talk to him about some of that. Okay. So our next question is How did you discover the wines of Stropolatini winery? Well, actually, I met his dad before I met Federico. I met his dad. He was a he was a, a regular at, at the winery where I worked before. And, you know, and then there there was this tasting group of of young producers and and young wine enthusiasts, and he was a part of that group. And so I got to meet him and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. I know your dad. So, yeah, it actually took me some time to realize that he was the son of that that guy. So but yeah. So I I I realized that he was, taking the winery to a new level. And I said, yeah, it would be really nice to sort of talk to him more about I'm wondering how old is federico? Federico, how old are you? Thirty two thirty two till November. Oh, very young. Very young. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Okay. That's amazing. Last is what are the learning objectives we should be expecting from this interview. Well, I'm I'm interested in learning a little bit about sort of federico's origin story, how we got involved in the the winery and things like that. Challenges of of being an organic winery in Cody Audi and Tali, and also some of the details about working with these really, really ancient vines. Okay. Alright. So before I mute myself and turn over to Florida, I wanna give it a huge shout out to our listeners and our Italian ambassadors. So we have here Elena, Julia Cynthia Titti. Andrea Beverly, and Andrea. Hello, everyone. So, yes, I am now going to mute myself, and I turn over the floor to you, Wayne. Thank you very much, Laido. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for coming here. Fedarico, Fedarico Struppolitini. Yes. Thanks for having me. So just to give a people a little bit of a bio about you, Fedarico Struppolitini together with his sister Mariana runs their small family owned vineyard and bed and breakfast. Okay. In the heart of the Caliore Antala area near the UNESCO city of Chibidale del Frueley. The farm was born in the second half of the late eighteen hundreds. And still today, it preserves original vineyard of Priolano planted by their ancestors around a hundred and twenty years ago. This really turns me on. Federico takes care of the production, the running of the six hectares of vineyards, all situated on traditional terraces on the slopes of two hills of the estate. With particular care for octopus varieties, low environmental impact with organic farming, on and limiting interventions on moths and wines and avoiding industrial yeasts, industrial verifications and stabilization, preferring longer agings for both whites and reds aiming to be territorially complexity and elegance in the glass. Thank you, Fed that eco for coming today. I'm really interested in telling finding out a little bit about this long history in old vines. But first, I wanna know, a little bit about maybe this triple a teeny family history and, maybe a little bit of the origin story of the winery itself. Okay. Well, well, first of all, I'm really, really flattered to buy the things that you said before. Thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you. All merited. All merited. I hope so, and, thank you very much, also, for inviting me here. My pleasure. So, well, Actually, it it's funny that the, the surname stroppolitini actually came a little bit later at the beginning of the twentieth century, but the the farm was bought by, the grandfather of the wife of Stropolatini. Okay. Okay. And, the farm, the first hill, that's, let's say it's, it's part of the, of the farm of the estate, was bought in eighteen sixty eight. Okay. And from the beginning, they started to, made the terraces, where the vines are, still today. And, later slowly, but slowly, they added a little bit, some pieces to the vineyards. So the oldest part, it's actually well, I I I asked my father, and he actually was telling me that, since the eighteen sixty eight, the vineyard was existing. Okay. So we could have still some plans of that era. But, when it was reselected, the the biotype that was reselected in this very oldest part of the vineyard, let's say the most certain, data. It's of the, last years of the nineteenth century and the first years of, twenty centuries. Wow. Maximum from nineteen zero zero to nineteen tens. Okay. And if you want later, I'll tell you. So these are these are the these are sort of the the documented evidence that you have of when vineyards were planted. Exactly. Okay. Because Oh, there could be back to eighteen sixty. His family history tell that the the plans were still from the beginning when when my grand grand grandfather. Okay. Great. Great grandfather. Exactly. Both the heal, but, the dating process Okay. The dating process was, was allowed, because the biotype of Dokai that, the, is of this plant Mhmm. Was reselected, more than thirty years ago. Okay. And, the person who reselected these, these vines, found polony, English. Polony. It's like, some shoots of the plants Okay. That, Let's say are not the productive ones. Okay. Bump start from the bottom from the graft. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I think we call those suckers in English. Exactly. The ones that that you have to take off of the the Exactly. Okay. Exactly. These suckers, are of the bottom part of the plant. Right. So grafted plants. And, so he found those, and he recognized a very old grafting Wow. That was, used, that is lost nowadays, and, was actually used to maximum until nineteen tens. Wow. Okay. In a grafting, facility that was, in Galliano, the village that we are in. Okay. Yeah. There's an interesting history about that as well. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, we'll talk about that in a little while. And what about you sort of the the more recent family history Did, you know, I know your dad, and I know that your dad was making wine there. Exactly. Over talking about great grandfathers and everything. So give us a little bit sort of a more recent history. Was it always just a winemaking estate, or was it one of those situations, typical, freely in situations where you vines and cows and wheat and corn. Is it one of those things? Exactly. That's okay. And when did it flip over to all wine? Well, it was my father actually to, flip everything, to just wine. Well, we still have fields, down the hill, but, we converted it into hay, and, urban medica. Yeah, I guess, medical herbs? I don't know. I didn't say urban medical in English. It's a it's the medicinal herbs. Yeah. The the the kind of grass that is pro pro partake. And, you give it to the cows. Okay. Okay. Okay. Anyway, so especially this is especially for feed for animals. Yeah. Exactly. Because we could do that organically. Okay. So we could have all the estate both vineyards and fields organic. Okay. And collaboration. With, our neighbors that produce goat cheese and, donkey? Email? Yeah, donkey. Yeah. Yep. And, so we give them the hay. Okay. Organic hay, and, we focus on it. Is that Lazanele Mousa? Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I know these guys really well. Yeah. So how did you get involved in the winery? When did that happen? So you said you're thirty? Yeah. Thirty two. Yeah. Okay. And so when did you sort of enter into the the situation here? Well, I always, I always harvest it. It was a really fun time for me. Really? Are you being sarcastic or did you really enjoy heart? No. No. No. I really enjoy harvest when I was a child, it was a a party because it was, you know, with, we have a small estate. So we do we pick grapes by hand. Mhmm. And so, you know, back in the day, you had all these, people coming to our farm to harvest. And, we were like kind of a bigger family. So, okay. We knew each other extended family. Exactly. And so, you know, it was chatting. It was having fun do during the harvest. And, so I always harvested, and I always followed kind of my father in the cellar. Mhmm. But my let's say my first ever wine by myself, it's, from two thousand and fifteen. Okay. Well, my fir the first time that I've let's say, or professionally, let's say. Okay. Started in the summer was two thousand and fourteen, but actually fifteen was my first wine by myself. Okay. Two thousand seventeen was my first fermentation of all the varieties that we have. Mhmm. And two thousand but I I say that two thousand and eighteen was my first ever Vintage. Okay. Because I could, choose the the day of the harvest, the ripeness of the grapes, and I could, let's say, experiment a a little bit more in the salad from the two thousand and eighteen. Okay. And so did you eat I mean, even the a lot of people have the enthusiasm for this this quote unquote party of the harvest. Yeah. Did you always wanna get involved also in the cellar as well? Was was studying analogy and and working to make wine something that you always wanted to do? Let's say, it was not something that I really thought from the beginning because, actually, it's always been a place of the heart for me and my sister and all the family because every summer we go, we went there from Udine where we lived to stay there, and it was a, you know, a place of the heart. But Okay. Then I started at the university to study engineering And then after two years, I said, well, maybe it's not my way. Okay. And it's better to, to drink wine. And so, well, I I came back home and, got involved in the, in the farm way more. And, I started I started to study analogy, and then, I started to take over little by little. My father job, my father's job, and then the farm. Okay. And so you're basically doing it all now. I mean, before we started, you were saying that you're, you know, you're doing the tractor. Yeah. The last time I came by the winery, you were out doing pruning or something like that. Yeah. So are you like a one man show? I mean, is it all? I know. Yes. You do it all. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's your favorite part to do? Let's say, every part is kind of has its own magic. Because pruning, it's kind of out there, home season, you know, Tom, and you're all by yourself, and you're just going around slowly and pruning the the plants. And you're like taking care of them because you have to prune them thinking about the future. But I would say my favorite part It's the beginning of the fermentation. Mhmm. I'm saying. So it's the most challenging. There's the most stressful, let's say, because it gives me a lot of, I guess it depends on how you could you call it stressful. You can call it exciting. It's okay. You know? It's a positive stress. Yeah. So when you when you came into the farm, was the farm already, organic, or was that something that switched over during your time there? How did that come about this whole organic? Well, let's say, was not organic, but my father always had an eye on the impact of everything. So, was actually my grandfather that started to, I don't know, buy a sprayer for the plants to spray the the treatments. Mhmm. Is it, you know, also in English Yeah. Yeah. On the plants? That would use way less water than the spray errors of that era. Okay. So it was like the first ecologic kind of not overusing water. Exactly. And, then my father was always nowadays in Italy, we call it, a very cold turin tegratta. So you normally deal with the field in a an organic way just when it's necessary, and you need to cure the plant you use something more. But in the last lineages, my father was actually dealing with plants organically. So I just said with my sister, okay, let's just go straight on to this, to this path. Okay. And, from two thousand and sixteen, we started the you know, bureaucracy stuff. Right. One certification process. Yeah. The certification process is something just, you know, on paper. Okay. The important stuff, especially in Frioli, is doing organic farming by philosophy. Otherwise, it doesn't work. Okay. Otherwise, it doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're just looking for the the the the the documents, it's not as not as important. You have to you have to be committed to that. Yeah. Because truly, it is a challenging region, especially our areas. It's rainy. Okay. And it's humid. So it can be challenging if you don't know what you're doing, or if you're doing, like, just for marketing stuff. Okay. So you have to be committed, and you have to know what you do. And so tell me a little bit about exactly where the the vineyards are located. You're located in a little sort of section of Chividale called Galliano. Exactly. Tell us a little bit about what's special about your area of Galliano. Galliano is actually a village that it it's a it's really small, but, It's a town that it's a it's village that actually exists since Roman time, so it has a long history. And, was always an area where the vines were cultivated because the hills that we are on are very suitable for that. And, what can I say? Is, it's an area, for example, where it was located at the the prune the drafting Right? There yeah. There was a nursery. A nursery? Yeah. There was a nursery there since the end of the nineteenth century. So it was a center of a vine mine growing and wine making. Okay. So, it's always been an area where vines were cultivated. More precisely, it's an area that it's known, because of the powerful tenant, the Okay. Structured wines. And, let's say, for example, three kilometers from us, there is a village called Repoto. Right. There, you have smoother kind of expressions. So is it a warmer area, Galliano? Yeah. It is a warmer area with, a tougher soil. Okay. And, we have just two hills and just six sectors. Okay. But we have this is a a particularity of the flu decoder in Italian. You have many different kinds of soils Mhmm. Even in a small surface like six sectors. But, It's oh, Galliano has a soil that is less decalcified. So less iron, and it has less iron content Okay. Than, for example, in Repoto, since we we mentioned that. Right. And this also could lead to, certain decisions in which kind of varieties you cultivate and how you grow the vines. And for for my perspective, also how much you have to age the wines before selling them. Okay. So there's an impact on sort of the minerality of the soil that creates wines that are more structured and tonic. Exactly. And this is this lack of calcium and lack of iron. It's well, yeah, it has more calcium and less iron and turns into the but, of course, everything affects The. Right. Would this still be considered? Panka? Is this still? It is But it's slightly different. Exactly. Panka. Because for example, in Pepoto, it's, more decalcified. So it has less calcium more iron And so, this leads to, smoother kind of, toning, and, let's say well, different expression, I would say. You have pros and cones and everything. Of course. Of course. Of course. So is it more of is there a sort of more of a kind of a limestone sensation to this punkah? Yeah. Okay. More play, less play. The bass is the bass is common, of all the polka. Right. But you you can have many different, versions of it. So you can have very gray Exactly. Or very, very brown. Very brown or even red ish kind of, that is is the most more iron y kind. Oh, okay. Sorry. So, for example, historically, where where the chestnuts tree were growing Okay. Where areas where the, iron was very present Okay. Housing was very, low. And Nowadays, it's, normally, you use these kinds of soil to plant, for example, Scrapatino that is really suitable for this, kind of expression of the Panka. And you you work with Cupertino. Yeah. Okay. We'll talk more about that because there's some you work with a lot of native grape varieties, but before we got into getting into that, I wanted to ask you a little bit about these really old vines that you you got into. Now these older vines are almost exclusively frieulano, or are there other vines, other varieties that have that kind of age? The main part, it's. It's for you. Yes. Okay. The main part. You we have half of an actor in the very, very oldest part. So the the the the one that was from the beginning, from eighteen sixty eight to end of the nineteenth century. Then we have a slightly younger one. So, from, nine ten zero zero two nineteen dent. Okay. So, in everything together is one hector of more than a hundred years old. Okay. Then there are also plans of, other varieties such as Arifosco, and, like, it was common at that era. With the Refosco, you had some also some plans of Franconia, for example. Okay. Yeah. But these are just a few lines and it's less, less plants. Mhmm. And there was, there was also, but, unfortunately, it was, took out Okay. Way back in the day. But we have many So what's it like working with these ancient vines? What it's sort of the challenges and what are sort of the advantages of working with these vines that are a hundred and twenty or a hundred and thirty years old? It's a big responsibility. Of course. Yeah. It's almost it's almost like you you need to keep them alive. Yeah. Yeah. But for that, they are really, really, really way easier to deal with than the younger ones. Really? They get me about that. Yeah. They are ill. They get ill way, way, way less often, way less. You have way less impact of dead plants in that vineyard than in younger vineyards that we have. So you mean they're less likely to die Excellent. Than the younger vineyards. You're way more resistant. Really? Way more. Okay. And they are way more resistant, for example, for, nowadays, climate. Because, well, accepted these two vintages that are were really rainy. Okay. Where that you actually showed how much they are way more resistant also from, year to year kind of illnesses. So, for example, powdery mildew Okay. And Omidyum, they are way more resistant. Then the younger vines. Yes. Do you think that's, like, a natural I don't know. Immunity that they've gathered up over the century, or do you think that's something to do with the the bio type? It's both. It's both. It's both. Science really, already told that view all that the plans are they kind of get an immune system Mhmm. That they develop. Okay. And, apart from that, I would say that also it's because a vine that have one more than a hundred years old have a very, developed root system, a very solid one and a very, deep. Mhmm. So they can, reply to both positive and negative kind of, let's say situations situation, especially climate situation, bad climate situations such as dryness Right. Or too much water or something like this way better than the others. Really? Yeah. And, for example, two thousand and twenty two was very, very dry. And, they didn't had a problem. There was no rain for almost two months, and, their leaves were green. They didn't turn, yellow. Like, they normally the plant would do if they are, in a very bad water situation. Hydro stress. Exactly. Okay. And, so they that leads if we are talking about the grades that are the outcome. And Yeah. I'm interested in that. Yeah. Yeah. This is very important because they can go on with the, ripening process way more, you know, way more balanced way than younger vines that it suffers from lack of water or too much water or illnesses or something like this. They just go on, from, following their path. Okay. And so they can deliver grapes that are, less stressed. Let's say Okay. Than younger vines, would do. So if I'm if I'm hearing you correctly, we're talking about fruit that's developing on the vine sort of in in a more balanced with more equilibrium. Yeah. With more equilibrium. So you have. With more What do you mean continuity? Because, for example, if they can go longer into the season, or is that because I'm always thinking when I'm thinking about rightness, I'm thinking like, okay, you don't wanna get too much sugar before you have some polyphenolic ripeness. Right? Exactly. You wanna make sure that your seeds are turning brown. You wanna make sure that your your skin is is solid later. Yeah. Exactly. So I would imagine, like, maybe a younger vine maybe would pump a little bit more sugar into the grapes and you might have to harvest earlier. Yeah. And maybe the older vines are sort of doing a little bit more gradually so you can push the ripeness a little bit more. Exactly. You could do that. And, also, is a, you know, when when the plant is, stressed, such as lack of water, for example, the plant at a certain point, says Okay. Well, okay, the grapes, but I have to survive. I need a water. Yeah. I need a water. So, at a certain point, if, if they arrive at a certain point, that is no longer. Let's say, healthy for the plant to go on with the ripeness of the grapes. Mhmm. In a very stressful situation, the plants just pause. Okay. They're the developing of certain aspects of such the components of the grapes. And so, for example, you would have a very high amount of sugar, but not because the plant is pumping sugars is developing, sugars in the in the berry, but because the berry is, is, dehydrating. Okay. And you're so it's concentrating. It's concentrating. And because, for example, if we are talking about lack of water, the plant is not, well, in that moment, just pause the evolution of the polyphenols in the berries. So you would end with a very, concentrated mask in sugar, but an unripe, for example, seed and unripe, skin of grape. Mhmm. And this leads would lead to, I don't know, for example, bitter tannins or bitter kind of some, aromatic compounds in a grape because you would reach, a point of, sugar that is too high that you have to harvest, but the grape is not. It's not red. And older older vines don't normally have this problem. Exactly. Because the the root system is way more developed. And the the amount of, for example, reserve energy. Mhmm. They have in the food. It's way higher than the younger plants. Okay. So, for example, if you have a frost in the late in the early, season. Okay. Younger plants have less energy to, start over a new Okay. And you The the growth of the year. Yeah. Exactly. New shoots and everything. With the all the plants, you have less problems because you have a stock of energy that is, Oh, I I never thought about that part of the plant as being a sort of a battery of energy. It is. It is. So it's a it's an energy reserve, actually. It's just me. I always looked at those big trunks as almost sort of, you know, kind of like, fat. No fat, like on me. That it's kind of like it slows you down. It sort of saps your energy, but, no, it is kind of like fat. It's a source of energy that they burn off when they need. Exactly. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. I was gonna say something about, so you you deal a lot with with with Freulano. Mhmm. But I see a lot of other native grape varieties too. Yeah. I mean, I do see sovignon Exactly. That's part of your production. And I'm looking at a bottle of a Freulano that's called Antebelum, which means from before the first World war or from before the second world war. It's before the first world war. Yeah. Because there is a funny fact about it, but I don't well, I don't know if you want to hear about the it's a of course, you now that you've mentioned that you have to say it. Okay. Because, that vineyard that the old vineyard, bureaucratically speaking, was registered in nineteen seventy because Oh, thank you. For a seventy zero seven zero. Seven zero. Okay. But for a reason, because the DOP of Frioli Colirintale was born in nineteen seventy. So my actually, at that time, was my grandfather and, his sister that were, taking care of the farm Mhmm. Registered the vineyards of the farm in the DOP, call it the entire. Like the registry. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. So they they said, okay. Well, let's say this vineyard was it's off the nineteen seventeenth, but actually it was off the off the nineteenth century. Okay. So they didn't actually put the real date of how old the vineyard was. So time to register the vineyard just put nineteen seventy. Exactly. Okay. Alright. Exactly. So, actually, bureaucratically speaking, we could, the the the the the the vineyard was born in nineteen seventeen. Yeah. But your bureaucracy doesn't matter. It's the age, the real age of the plan. It's how many candles are on the cake that really matters. Exactly. Exactly. And so that's why we we don't use right now, the, for example, old vineyards on the label or something like this. So we call it Antabelo. Antabelo. In Latin means before the first world war. Oh, okay. Exactly. And then there's another for you, Lano that you make called Cola di Jan. Cola di Jano. Yes. Cola di Jano. Jono. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, you could. Jono is the the original Roman name for Exactly. Janus. I if I remember correctly, which is the god of both faces where we get January Exactly. Which is where Galliano gets its name. Exactly. Because on the Roman times, See that? I know a little bit of history. Exactly. Exactly. Because the name of Galliano, was, took because in the Roman times, they built a temple dedicated to to Janos Okay. In the area where now got iano is. Oh, okay. Now, see that? I didn't know. Yeah. Okay. Me neither years ago. So it was fun to to discover that. And, fun fact, in the dialect of the area, Galliano is still called Jan in the show, like, in Roman times. So call it the journal. Exactly. When you Is that also an an a new free is that also a freelano back in the day when you tasted it? Okay. Yes. It was a selection of six hundred bottles of Ferulano that was eight, in a, French oak barrel. Okay. Already used, exhausted. So no one was it, but structurally speaking was way more creamy here. Sorry. So let's say, it was inspired by, let's say, Shabbli kind of. Okay. Mentality. Exactly. Okay. So white wine with structure with longevity, with, elegance and creaminess. Nowadays, it's a little bit different. Uh-huh. Because I liked the name Okay. Because it bounded the product to the place. That's very cool. Yeah. And, but it was an idea that I was thinking about from long, long time because fun fact, Frulano is considered, and I'll talk to the notoriety. Right. But But But it became a lot of talk to my sobriety because it, it actually was not native of Frulli, was native of, the area of Bordeaux, And its original name was sovignonas. And especially the biotype that we cultivate in the one hundred and thirty years of vineyard, because that biotype, it's called yellow tokay. Okay. Less productive and way more resistant from fungus's diseases, in comparison to his close brother, that is called Green Tokai, and that it's the main variety that we cultivate nowadays after the nineteen seventies. Mhmm. So An idea that was running in my mind, it was to, let's say, let, let the, these two varieties that genetically are near to each other. Sovignon ass. Okay. And, sovignon. Okay. In one wine. Okay. So, because these two varieties historically speaking are very bounded, and also genetically speaking, because, sovignan House was considered in the area of Bordeaux, the more productive, less particular, less qualitative, causing of Sabignon. That's good. It's actually the peak quality white wine. Okay. Here, when both Frulan Frulano, yes, and, Sabignon were imported, The role flipped. So, sovignon became too, difficult to deal with. Mhmm. And the Frulano that was a productive, too too productive in both area, here would produce the right amount of grapes with great quantity of sugar and so alcohol, very long lasting wines, very complex wine, very interesting aromatics, very rustic plant to grow. So it was perfect. So it it's almost like, even though Sabignonas, which is tokai Freilano Exactly. Which is now Freulano. Exactly. Found its real home here. Exactly. Even though it was born there. Exactly. Kinda like me. So, yeah. So even though even though it's it's it's not a native, it's but it's it's found its home here. So it's it's considered native. It is considered native. And, a lot of people don't know, actually, that Frjira now. It's not Frjira. But it's not cultivated anymore in its real motherland. It's, it's cultivated just here mainly. And, the idea in the color, this, that right now, it's a reserve of wine from two thousand and eighteen, was to bound together these two varieties, sovignon and sovignon, exactly. An old bio type of sauvignon Mhmm. Because they're the same person who reselected our, old bio type of Tokai of Frulano, in our old vineyard, also selected in the area an old bio type of sauvignon. Okay. So different expression of sauvignon, from nowadays, stereotypes that are cultivated of sauvignon. And So less aromatic, more aromatic, more body, less body. What's different about that old sauvignon blanc? It's a little bit less aromatic than nowadays, Sumignon, that are kind of PO types that were developed here in, Rauscedo Okay. In the nineteen seventies. The the biotypes of the late, nineteenth century were, burdo style. So more the aromatics were more on tropical fruits, ripe tropical fruits, dried out tropical fruits, and also some fume kind of smells. Okay. So, for example, mango, papaya, passion fruit. And, the, home grade, peel, and some Right. Empiric kind of aromatics, like, I don't know, in all the reasoning we do. Okay. Okay. Okay. Very different from nowadays. Mhmm. And so I could bound these wines together in this cholletigiano with the complexity, and the white fruits and spice of the Frulano. Okay. And, the freshness and the tropicality and the acidity and the drinkability of the sauvignon. So in one wine, you have, in this new quality channel, you have sovignonas and sovignon that talk to each other. Okay. And you have the complexity of a tokay, of a Frulano, but the drinkability and the freshness and the tropicality of this kind of sovignon. Have you been able to, reproduce vines from these old bio types and replant new vineyards with them? Exactly. Okay. That's good. And thirty years ago, as I, said, Colurientale, talked with, carlo Petruci that you may know Sure. To find old veneers and bio types to save Oh, okay. And so, back in the day, it was already reselected our own variety. Okay. And, so we've only talked about white so far. Yeah. But you make more red wines than white wines. Exactly. So is that also by volume you make more reds? Than you do white. Let's say it's a forty percent white and sixty percent red. Is there something? Okay. But go on. On surface, speaking, it's way more red. Wines. And also in numbers of varieties, because I cultivate three white grapes, Frulano, these old bio types of sauvignon. For example, I don't call the a hundred percent sauvignon wine, sauvignon, anymore, on the label. Okay. But, and then I have Ribolajal. Another I'll talk to him as white grape. Then as red wines, we have three, five of them. So two international merlot and cabernet franc, carbonara, actually. And, there are three of the documents varieties. Okay. Is there something about your area. We talked about the soil before, but is there something about your area that's specially adapted to making red wines? Is that why you're sort of more towards that type of production? Or Yeah. It's a it's this warmer area you were saying. Yeah. Warmer area. The the composition of the ponca Okay. Because you may know the the DOP that is south from us call you, that there you have more white grapes. Exactly. Very few red grapes because it's way more decalcified, and it's a it's an area where just mainly white wine cells. Okay. Our area, instead, it's way more suitable for also red red wines red wines. Right wines. So that's why we have many autochtins, red grapes in your here in the area, such as a, Right. It needs a lot. Skio Patino tends to be a little bit more fresh and and and spicy. Yeah. Refosco, my personal favorite. You know, you know, the the the structure and and the the deep fruit and then pinolos, which is the the structure guy. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about how you make those three red wines or are they they done in wood? Are they, you know, Tell us a little bit about the process of making your your red wines. Well, I like to play with containers because I don't, stick to an idea because, well, you have to make some experienced throughout the years. Of course. So mainly they're all, well, spontaneously fermented than, Malolactic is done. And the first year practically, all of them are is spent in stainless steel. Okay. And just to clarify to purify because I don't use any clarifier or any, stabilizer. Okay. So they're a full year in stainless steel. A full year in stainless steel, then, or they go both in concrete and then in wood, or they just go in wood, or they stay in concrete. In concrete for containers. So in the bottle, for example, right now, I mainly have the classical aging. So first year in stainless steel, and then, well, the younger wine that I have in the bottle is two thousand and nine. Team. So it's at least three years. Normally, it's five years in to know Wow. Okay. Okay. So long time in in wood. Because the reason is what we were talking before. Galliano have a very vibrant kind of stunning. Okay. So if you want to deal with it naturally, you have to make longer aging. So you smooth the angles throughout the aging, through longer agings. So all of them have done firstly over stainless steel and then wood. Then French, Oak, or Slovakia, oak, tonnose. So five hundred liters container. Okay. So not Barriques. Exactly. Not Barriques. We don't use well, we have them, but we don't use them for the, bottle. Oh, okay. Then, for example, Melo is aged in twenty one hectoliters, wood barrel, to affect less, the the merlot that is more delicate. Mhmm. And then, for example, I have still having bottled Pignol from two thousand fifteen that was aged just in concrete, and that was, something scholastic for me. My father actually didn't knew that we kept the the pinolu in the concrete until the bottling because Oh, really? Yeah. I kept it, Was he Was he angry about that? He was like, he was shocked because he normally he would put it in wood, but I said, no. I have to understand the true aromatics and the true, interesting expression of the because, for some the people that don't know Piniello, it's a variety that is very tonic, and it needs a lot of years to be ready. And, you have to keep it in wood for many years. Mhmm. And even though the ball of the barrel could be exhausted and, don't would not give the the taste of food or a sense of food, I was curious to age it in another container that, could have the evolution of the tunneling because of the micro oxygenation and concrete allows you that Okay. Without the influence of the tannin of the wood and the Okay. Scent of wood. So you still have this two thousand fifteen, you said? Exactly. Pignolno in the bottle? Exactly. Wow. Have you opened one recently? Are you ever going to release that? It's it's it's the variety that it's released right now. Okay. Okay. So do you do that? What what Ben Little calls the pinolorado? Where you wait ten years? Is that Or are you going to do that? I hope I will be able to do that. Yes. Okay. Yes. The the aim is that. The aim is that. With a small wineries, the main problem is always one. The space that you have in the cellar to to keep bottles. Exactly. But it could be, I mean, a right amount of aging in the cellar that just bottle. The bottle is an incredible container for aging wines. Really? You you you enjoy having your wines spend some time in bottle before you release. Ideally, with all my wines, but bay from base wines to to recettify wines, Ideally is one year of aging before selling. In the bottle. In the bottle. Okay. Ideally. Ideally. Yes. Okay. But at least six months, and it can go up to two years, for example. And of of those five reds that you make, especially the three I'll talk to in this one, which one of those sort of responds best to organic farming to sort of bring it back to that concept? Nice question. I would say Rifosco. I'm just hoping you're gonna say. Yeah. Rifosco is the soul, the the the soul of Colliur in Tali, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes. It's the most. Most resistant. It's the most resistant. And that's why it was so common back in the day Okay. Commonly cultivated because a scuba genome is an incredible variety, but it's terrible to cultivate it. Really? It's terrible. It's the variety. Tell me tell me about that. Why is it terrible? It it is that kind of variety that you would reap out of the soil with your teeth throughout all the seasons. Is it so is it so difficult? Yeah. It's it's like how Is is it picky? Is it is it delicate? Is it what what is it that makes you wanna tear from the ground? It is everything. It every illness that is around, he takes it. Every every kind of, climate, kind of, situation gives problems to Scupitino. You you you you just arrive at the of our at the harvest that you are exhausted by Scupitino, but at this very moment when the greats come in the cellar, you're like, oh my god. That's why we keep you. I see that. That's that's fantastic. That's Yeah. Because I was gonna ask you, did does all the hard work payoff in the end. Yeah. Maybe not in terms of quantity because, for example, in a very, very, very difficult vintage. Well, not very difficult. With Cupertino, every vintage could be challenging. But in very difficult season, it's it's like, the challenge to bring some barriers of Scipatina in the cellar. Okay. But they are always worth it for me. I mean, and, so we understand why it was nearly disappeared, the biscuit patino. Okay. Because the cultivation is was difficult to it's very susceptible from powdery mildew, especially on the grape, on the cluster. But also on the on the leads is also susceptible. And this is the crazy part. It's it's susceptible from the contact with the copper that you used to deflect the plant against the powder mildew. Okay. So it doesn't like to be sprayed with copper Exactly. Which is what you're using to protect it. Exactly. That's the crazy bunch. I I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah. And that's why in the older days, they could not cultivate it because they used a huge amount of copper because they that were, formulas of copper that are were very, you know, pretty historic. So they were not very efficient. So you and they didn't actually know how the illnesses would, behave and how you could defend them. So you they just sprayed huge amount of copper. And, so Scipitino was born burnt. Burn. Yeah. By or the powder mildew if it was about ear or by the copper. Wow. So that's why they didn't cultivate it anymore because it was at the end of the season, it was burnt by one thing or the other. Exactly. That's okay. And I I do see that sometimes you make some reserve wines. Yes. Of course, we talked a little bit about the reserve for the free lotto, but I see also with the red wines, you might make a reserve from time to time. Yep. Is that sort of based on vintage, or is it based on vineyard, or what what are sort of the factors that go into you deciding? Okay. This is a reserve. Yeah. So in We are in a moment at the farm where many souls are, cohabiting. Cohabitating. Yeah. Cohabiting. Many souls. Yes. Because it's a previous well, there are wines that were made strictly by my father. Okay. I mean, let me explain better. At the moment, in the wine list that we have. Mhmm. We have wines that were produced strictly strictly by my father. Mhmm. Then wines that were produced, like, in a forehand job. With me and my father. So I was starting to affect to, change to develop the philosophy of my father. Mhmm. And then there are my wines. So for example, we have the Scupitino from two thousand and thirteen. That is, so interesting. Ten years of aging, eight years in the cello, and two in the bottle. And, For example, we have this two thousand and eighteen, Frulano antebellum that is made by me. And so, to reply better to your questions, it depends. We have reserva that they were born in an in a period where it was the vintage that it was very suitable. Alright. Very good. So we decided to keep those wines for longer agents. Mhmm. And then there is the new idea, the new path that is also, separating the the grapes. So, for example, two thousand and thirteen Scupitino sorry. In two thousand and thirteen Scupitino, it's a very good vintage. Mhmm. That we saw that could be also, suitable for a longer aging instead of Okay. That we kept longer to bottle way later Okay. As I already said. Two thousand and eighteen Frulano de Cerabytes that it's a different path. So I, saw that the grapes of the older vineyards were of a certain quality and of a certain, Okay. Okay. Yeah. So it's unacceptable. Okay. So there was just something about them. Yeah. Okay. That would give me a product that it's different from the younger vineyards of, Frulano that are that are younger, not younger, younger, because of, the the younger vines of, Frulano are of the nineteen nineties, nineteen seventies and nineteen thirties. Wow. The younger. Yeah. Not for young. But they are two different products. So I separated the grapes of the younger vines from the old vines. And so the younger vines give grapes that I, wine. Sorry that I bottled before as a base, Frulano. Mhmm. Instead, the, after three years of aging, instead, Frulano Riserva, so the grapes from the older vineyard, it's, k, k, ve, k, ve. Okay. And he's also aged longer. Okay. Okay. Good. Like, I don't know. We're here at, twenty eight minutes after the hour. I don't know if you wanna maybe invite some no. No. We're we're here to Hello? Yes. If you wanted to invite some other questions or if you had some questions, This was very interesting, actually. I'm really interested and engaged during the conversation, especially when you guys started talking about the old vines. Anyway, so let's go back to her question. How thick are the trunks' old vines? That's her first question. Well, they are not as thick as, we would normally think because Mhmm. Our soil, it's a characteristic of our soil is that it's poor in nitrogen and very rich in micronutrients. So the plants are actually not that thick. They are thick, but they are not as thick as they would be, for example, in the flatlands of Freule where you have. Okay. So it'll start to push the plants way more than our soil. Here in the area, they grow slow. They develop slow. And so the trunks are not, so re size. You had to if you had to give, like, an idea. You can see it also from our, Instagram that we, followed the the the story of a single plant of the old vineyard to teach you to to let you see what is going on in the vineyard throughout all, in a hundred and seven years old vineyard throughout a whole season. And he, it's, a diameter of, forty five, I would say, fifty centimeters. Okay. Forty five fifty centimeters. It's it's pretty big. It's pretty big. Yeah. Any other questions, Leica? Yeah. So some more, yeah. So Bev said thank you for answering the correct question. Also with the age of vines, how low is their yield productivity compared to young vines? It's not that low because, if you compare it with younger vines that are fertilized, is one thing. But in our case, we don't fertilize any of our vines. So in the old vineyards, actually, we have one of the most balanced, and let's call it a high production, although we don't produce a lot of we don't have a high yield character, but it's one of the, highest. Actually. So in in kilograms, how would you? Well, let's say that from one actor, we can get, to to do a city in English. It's, let's say, from forty five to fifty Tons. Tons. Okay. Of grapes or Hector. Okay. Okay. Forty five or fifty tons or forty five or fifty quintale. Quintale. Tons or a thousand kilograms, quintale or a hundred. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Four thousand five hundred to five thousand kilograms. Exactly. And from a younger vineyard, where would you go as far as kilograms is concerned? It's, it can be more if the season is good, but not that much more. Okay. But it's way less if the season is more challenging. That's the fun part. Okay. Okay. Because they are more affected from the from the season. Thank you so much. And I will definitely listen to this podcast again because I'm studying my wife's studies and all about the culture. So thank you so much. You're welcome. Sorry for talking so box. No. No. That's what you're here to do. Exactly. And so it's so geeky, and I'm for sure your audience are very geeky as well. You have the ambassadors here. So thank you, Wayne, for introducing federico to us, and thanks, Pedro. My pleasure. Alright. So, yeah. Thank you, Leika. Thanks, everybody for your time. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianwine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.