Ep. 2080 Barbara Fitzgerald interviews Giancarlo Baldisserotto | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And Walmatikazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineeti dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and expert alike, engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication cop and remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Everybody, welcome. This is, of course, called the Ambassador Escona. We've been doing this for a long time now. Most of you know, the drill, which is that one of our Italian wine ambassadors at large get to interview their favorite producer. And and it's more like a fireside chat style where they kinda do the deep dive into the subject matter. Of course, that subject being Italian wine and Italian wine people. That's where we're specialized in. So, Barbara, why don't you tell our audience for those of us who are less familiar with what you're up to and where where are you? What are you doing? Cause you're Partley Pouliese, Partley, California. Yes. So I live part time in Poulia, and, part time here in Sonoma, where I am right now in California. I own, a marketing company that helps wineries with a few initiatives, but really, my focus is on helping wineries build their direct to consumer sales strategy, marketing strategy, and so it's exciting to do that in Italy, especially because this is such a growing part of the wine business for you guys. Okay. There's actually another Italian wine Ambassador who's just moved to Julia. I saw that. Yeah. Becoming like the mecca of It is. Whatever. And, you know, our our guests that we're talking to today also is not originally from Pulea, but moved to Pulea. So, yeah, it calls it calls to people. Oh, really? Okay. So let's get on to today's show. So your guest today is John Carlo Balicero. He he sounds very tiny. Yes. Very Italian. Absolutely. And, how did you meet John Carlo. So I met John Carlo because, so as alright. So I live in Pullia part of the time in Oostoony and, two of my favorite restaurants, Sarah. I'm gonna give him a quick shout out there. Chacha, and they're both run by the same incredible family. They're very tight knit. It's a husband and wife, and they're two adult kids, and they just create the most beautiful atmosphere and fantastic food, but they've really taken my husband, Dan and I, under their wing and have introduced us to so many people around town. Always made us feel like part of the family. So when Dan and I started, decided to start importing Italian wines, their house white wine immediately came to mind because it's, of course, downright delicious, but a really great example of how white wines from Pulia can be refreshing and crisp and wallet friendly. So we asked them to connect us to their winemaker who turned out to be John Carlo and the rest is history. Oh, that's excellent. You know, it's absolutely, true. When we think of Pulea, we are thinking Permanntivo, we're thinking red wines, and we are never thinking about white wines. Yeah. And they're really special, especially with the with the hot weather. Okay. So we're going to be demystifying the white Julia wines. So listen, what are the learning objectives that we should, expect from your call today? So I really want people to understand Jean Carlos's story about moving to a new region of Italy, and starting his own wine business. So not necessarily something that he was born into, but really started building it later in life. We'll talk about the current landscape of Viticulture in Pulia. So what are some of the challenges and what are the bright spots? And then lastly, we're gonna learn about John Carla's really robust DTC sales strategy. So we'll talk about some of the benefits of selling so much of your wine direct to consumer, and and also maybe what are some of the challenges of that. Okay. Excellent. So I am going to leave the mic over to you. I'll be muting my mic and then I'll come back towards the end of the show. Yes. Wonderful. Okay. John Karla, are you there? Hi, John Karla. We're so happy to have you here. So I'm gonna, give you a little introduction first, and then we'll we'll start talking. I just wanna say that before I even read your biography that, you know, I already spoke about it a little bit with Stevie, but one of the things I love most about Pulea is the people. They're so creative and passionate, and John Carlo is a perfect example. So you'll learn very quickly, even though he's from Benito originally, he really embodies the spirit of Pulia. It's very hardworking, but always creating the time to enjoy life's beauty. So wines and olive oils that he makes are both amazing. They have so much depth and complexity without being over the top. And Yurly has also become a good friend of me and my husband, Dan. And so thank you for for welcoming us into your home and to your, into your life. I'm gonna read your bio, and then we'll get to talking. So you run, a boutique winery, a boutique organic winery in Carovina called La sensea di Pullia, the essence of Pullia. You produce salinto IGP wines, primarily from Primitivo, Negro Marofiano, chardonnay, and gardenaga, which is a little nod to your roots in the Veneto. Their production philosophy is to create wines that are not overly intense in flavor, but very well balanced. In respect the natural characteristics of the grape to produce wines that are round, easy to drink, and pleasing to the palate. So at your winery, you're very committed to sustainable practices and actively working towards a symbiotic agriculture for the converse conservation and protection of the Mediterranean environment and its biodiversity. The vineyards are, and olive goes are perfectly integrated with natural and spontaneous wild plants. So, Jeancadwell, welcome. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. So we learned a little bit just now about your winery, but can you share some of your personal background with us? So tell us where you're from and what was your career before making wine and grape growing. Yeah. I'm going out in Benito, Northern Italy, region with a strong white making traditional. My grandfather own a vineyard, and I spend my childhood helping in the vineyard, and making wine, a very natural in artisan way. However, besides dedicating my free time in the vineyard, I'm memory coke patient, also as a partner and manager of Tamery, and I produced using data for shoes and bags for locksmith brand for twenty years. But, yeah, then, my very passion is, was the video, the one. So your grandfather, what kind of grapes was he growing? In in the north, we have, dorrelos, local grapes, with the high mineral contents that produce excellent, white wines, and also as well as Malazir, white Malazir, and, carbonate, carbonate, and, wines. This is the main branch that we go in, in order with my grandfather. You know, we have a lot of our Italian wine ambassadors who are big Dorello fans. So so definitely a a a cult favorite. So you had now so your original career was making and selling leather. So, obviously, you're in a very different career now. And what inspired you to make that change? I must say that life in a in not part of Italy is very different by the south. In the north, there's more traffic, fast life, different climate. And when we never take the land in Polia, for family or my wife's, I decide to move here. But nevertheless my patient for for wine was never returned to the patient that I never inherited from my grandfather in the north, and then I decide to move here and do just wine oil and, and leave with the ladder, to other other supermarket, but a family, part of family. Yes. And so your wife is originally from Pudia and originally from Carovino. Right? Yeah. Carovino. Salay, not part of Salento. So for her, it was a homecoming. Yeah. Was it a difficult adjustment to living in the south versus the north, or did you feel at home right away? No. I feel very at home here. It's very, very easy to to, yeah, to live. And then Yes. Very fantastic here. Yeah. You can live very well in Purnia. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty sure. So, okay. Tell us a little bit now about your property and the history of of the Maseria. Wayne everything, the property in Purnia, the Masia, Pedro is called name of, you know, the Massey family of my wife, consisted mainly of century old, old trees in the hill area, frequently from sea. And I decided to, to start planting in the vines, You have Juarins. I'm villa I'm villa in the area, and you have to the Valetria area. And then I start testing in around two thousand fourteen, fifteen. And then now now I'm I've now very happy to do that to this discharge choice. Yeah. That's wonderful. And you, where are the grapevine? Where there so there were no grapevine planted on your property when you arrived in Juliet. So How did you decide which grapes to cultivate? Dear, there's not, grapevine already in the border. And let's try to cultivate, the most common, really, native varieties, neclamaro, and pivotivo. And then when I acquired the, the other veneas, I I acquired the fiano in this, in a in a chardonnay, but also, applied a little bit part of of Garganiga. There's, from yeah. That reminds me my region from Venetor. And have you how do you compare the gardena you grow to, to what grows in the vineitol? It has different soil here, different weather, then we have different results, but the gardena is gardena. So the the majority, the the taste is This is good to be different, but the variety is quite recognizable. Yes. I've had it. So I can agree. I I agree with that statement very much. So you have vineyards you mentioned both in Carovina, which is on the the Adriatic coast. In the Baladitria and in Grotalia, which is more inland in that valley. So they obviously have some pretty different terawatts and micro climates, and which varieties do you grow in each location and how do the conditions impact the vines? Derive right that we have in Carolina is, mainly primitivo, and now new plant of Negramaro. In Ontario area, we have a fiance and a part of, and, and also some are also part of Negramaro. The the the soil is different. In Caribbean, the soil is, sandalom, reaching organic matter and clay. And providing this kind of, soil provide a good balance, a complexity of a good volume of for the vines. It rotalia, the, the soil is quite carious, and significant clay presence. Also offer a very, excellent condition, but tends to impart more minerality to the structure of the wine in Italian. Both are, is very suitable for, with the culture. And each contributing, unique characteristics, to the wines. We might talk about this a little bit more later too, but being so close to the sea in Carolina, you have a a very intense wind that happens there. You know, Salinto is is to see the sun the wind. Is that is that there's both positive and and challenges to that. So it helps. We we talked a little bit that how does it help the grapes and how does it challenge maybe some other grapes? The wind the wind is very important in the in the veneer. There is the constant wind is very useful for the veneer. In the north, for example, when everybody would learn to follow it, on wind and it's more difficult to grow organically. Here, the wind helps to get dry, the vines, and, and, and, and, if it's not very because we are around six kilometer from the sea in the hills. Effect with the salty dates, sometimes the grapes is nice to have in the wine. Yeah. I love that. That's as we were talking about earlier, that kind of sea salty minerality that can show up in Pullian wines, especially in the whites that keeps it so, refreshing and so lovely to drink when it's Quaranta Grande. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about growing grapes in Pullia today. Could you share some insights into what that is like and maybe how climate change has affected your vineyards, if at all? The climb, the climate in Pullia is quite stable. With the mild winters hot and dry summer. However, the extreme weather events can still pose significant challenges. For example, sudden, sudden, a hail storm can, severally damage the grapes. And as a spring last year, also unexpected persistent, rainfall. And then, we had some disease, and then we'd be lost last year, thirty percent of, production in our veneer. Because, long, a persistent rainfall. And then we have also, prolonged stream heat rising temperature in but not really yet, but I think in the future, could be also a problem and problem problem, that have a heat and rising temperature. To mitigate the time of stress and the grapevine, there's several solution, then, we use, especially for organic items because I'm about organic farming. The using of Ziolite, Augustract, also it's important the mulching. They also, consult irrigation, the dre drip irrigation. Now we have do do the new irrigation under the soil is very important. And so some of this kind of practice, help to the this kind of climate and change changes. And so you mentioned that you had about thirty percent loss last year. Was that because of Parna Espona? Yeah. Mainly Oiticona Espona. Yeah. Yeah. But I do think, you know, there's something to be said because many wineries lost, you know, sixty, seventy, even a hundred percent of their grapes So do you think what what do you think helps you to keep your loss lower than those levels? To keep the loss lower is not easy. Depends also of the area because there's a microclimate Yeah. We are, hopefully, we have a lot of wind and then help to reduce the this kind of matters. But, yes, for avoid, this kind of problem, we have to, to use some of the, the, the practice that I mentioned before, the cellular, the agile spot that they are using, also foliar, fertilizing, I I would reach the foyer fertilizer with the compost tea and bacteria. Yeah. There is some, you know, some that get a little bit stronger vines and more resistant to the stress of temperature, but there's not a lot of things to do with organic, that sometimes we have to, to consider that we can lost a part of, production. Right. And was your loss lower in Carolina since that is on the sea and has the wind there. Yeah. So you had more loss in in downtown. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So could you tell us a little bit about the very unique soil, in a validated area. And what effect does that have on on both, you know, the things you grow and the final wines? The terrarosa is bread the direct soil, because there is rich on iron oxide. Darin offset does not transfer, directly into the wine, but, contribute, to soil quality in which they're turning positively affect, wine road and rate rattling and wind as a chromatic profile. This can result in winds with inflator, minirah, complexity, and, and, more robust than well balanced structures. So Yeah. It's good to have a, iron oxide in the soil, it's more rich. More rich also in this transpile in the wild taste. Yeah. And which part of the valley would you say it's more is it more is the iron oxide richer closer to the sea or more inland? Here, where we have, are more region than, for example, the other area, Rotaglia, or the other part, Utah area. Yeah. And we, you know, I wanna mention too that at your property in Corovigno, this, the soil there is so brilliantly red, but it is so fascinating because you have found pretty large, fossils of of sea things from the sea since that used to be underwater millions of years ago. Like, what are the things that you've found in your soil? Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, this fossil because in the past here, there was, the sea arrived here. And, yeah, it's very nice when I found it's nice. I'm very happy to find. And so other other kind of thing. Yeah. You it showed me yeah. You showed me a scallop shell that was as big as my hand. Yeah. So interesting. So you call your property a boutique farm. And what does that mean to you? It's quite easy. The boutique farm, to me is, means as small scale, well organized, carefully maintain farm, it kept as, as if it were a garden. And I think that's so interesting because you spent the first half of your career making luxury leather. So very small production, but high quality. And then you've translated this now to how you're farming. Small production, high quality. Yeah. Yeah. With the small production, we are it's more easy to to manage the the quality and a big cafe, you know, the the details. And it's very important the details in the farming, in industry, you know, everything where we do, the data is very important. Yes. So you also are a very strong advocate for biodiversity. So what steps have you taken to promote it and what positive effects have you seen on on your grapes and the other the other things growing on your farm? Yeah, the very, the the bio divesting, Evinia, and also in the Poly that we, is integrated with the Mediterraneanaki, aromatic plans, is very important. The presidents of, time, Rosemary, We have here also in Caribbean, the fruit trees, such as bears, pomegranate, almond. This, this kind of biodiversity offer, they offer several benefits. For example, during the winter, when the veneer is deflasts, beneficial in fact can seek the refuge to the other part, part of the species, such aromatic herbs, like time, also in some kind of, other trees, also in the, in the, in the, in the, in the olive trees. This device plant environment support natural pest control improve the, the soil health. To improve the pollination, increase the resilience and creating a balanced and self sustained, ecosystem. This is very important, the biodiverse, very, very important. And since you've planted grapes, excuse me, since you've planted grapes on your property, have you seen the health of the other plants and crops that were already there increased? Yeah. The they become seen over the year the, just one ecosystem. Work as a symbiotic, symbiotic system. I don't know if it's right word from symbiotic? Yes. Right. Simiotic. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, aside from biodiversity, you also really prioritize sustainability and minimizing environmental impact. What are some of the sustainable practices that you implement in both farming and wine production? To make a mini, an olive groove also in pulling more, more sustainable, there's different kind of things that we can do, and we can, it's important to soil management. They use management tillage, tillage, and cover crops. Yeah. Tillage. Yeah. Tillage. And also, the efficient irrigation is very important to for sustainability. Then, for example, collect the rainwater. Now, you know, what I'm doing now. Is very important to find some area to collect the rainwater. Then, and as we mentioned before, the biodiversity, incorporate the different kind of plants, plant plants are more and more kind of variety. Also, the energy, renewable, renewable energy. Yeah. Renewable energy. Yeah. So, since we have also, certification, part of ProLogist, is called Albermi. This project, I am to reducing the, the settings of CO2 emissions. Besides the commitment to the planting more trees, because it's very important. So as I told you, plant, plant trees is important for, for the work, for CO2, for climber, for all. Plant is very, very important. Plant trees. This, the other guideline include also serial system level, regard to, practice as mowings that are plowing, using pruning as mulch, utilizing, win, energy, sources, like a finance or solo partner, geothermica and amongst the others. So on. So when they, so they or they're having you plant more trees and what kind of trees, specifically, or just any trees? My core is pinea and olive trees. And I have to plant other kind of varieties, in order to grow, better also the vineer, and also the olive. In the meantime, work well, we have as I told you, pair, unknown, but also Marqui, Midirana, Marqui, Marcia, and it's called, Lynn Tariaro. It is, is also very important, because to track the fly to the island sect, is very, very important, the the marking, and also the aromatic, I like the aromatic herbs, timed, rosemary. Yeah. We plan with this kind of figs. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that lens so much to some of the interesting complexity of pillion wines is that there is all of these, other, you know, really well established crops all around that offer so much to the soil and, and beyond. Yeah. Okay. So you recently planted a new vineyard at your property in the shape of, an amphitheatre, which is very interesting. So, what was the thought process behind this, this layout? I decided to plant, as our feet, semi circle, because, yeah, is is nice, high static also, but, also have some, good, results in, in terms of, of, organic farming. Because, with the circle layout, we have, we can reduce the shaded areas and, that occur in Evinias. Instead of the role oriented in a single direction, that means that each plant can may receive more, light during the day. And also, what is very important, what I plant is, is, is not, is as a faggling as more trees. So that's where I live. Yes. Oh, you're within English, but yeah. We we call it we call it a bush vine, but I think that's hard. Yeah. Yeah. I think you can understand that. And and and plant it not very close, one meter that is individual. So it's led to be also larger than usual planting. And, it's very important for, the semicircle and this kind of planting for air circulation that is very important, essential forever. Health and rape quality. The circulation arrangement can improve the air circulation around the vines. Yeah. The stem cells try rolls, can reduce the formation of stagnant stagnant, stagnant areas, then, yeah, and and it's better. So helping to really, like, use that natural air that comes to that natural wind that comes through to your benefit. Yeah. Yeah. And you did a lot of work because I saw when the when you were kind of in progress, and then I saw after you planted it, but you did a lot of work to really prepare the soil as well to plant this vineyard. And you Yeah. Yeah. You had to you were breaking down. I mean, what were you breaking down? Yeah. The soil, for the vineyard is like foundation for a house. So it's very, very important as if you were well prepared, and then we have less problem then. Yeah. But you found what just, I mean, some of the actual substances in the soil that you were breaking down, like, the very, almost like marble, like, Yeah. We have a lot of, originally how, it's been a cliff, like, a cliff, originally with rocks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we have two broken, then, four ply in the vineyard because it otherwise is not possible to plant finia in this area. Yeah. But every rock we is very, we call this area Pratasanta because there's a lot of rock, Pietrasanta, Saint Son. Yeah. Let's take a fresh take a fresh, the roots, and then there's also very useful for a veneer. So should we be very useful for the olive trees. Yeah. Because those rocks, what are what are they very what what are they high in limestone? Are they high in? Are they more what are their kind of benefits for the storms? Yeah. Yeah. Take the soil. Take the, more more fresh. And this is, this is very important. And then also the stone, there is a lot of Murriti, Seiko. I don't know what is Murriti, Seiko English, you know. I don't know either. Something that's dry. Yeah. Bryte's home was, we can who can walk. It is also very important. And now I'm restore the part of dry stone walls. Yes. It's also important because if, we have spoke before, we have a lot of rainings. The the dry stone walls, helps to better, broke the roots of the the the the the the water went rain a lot. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The ancient, they built a lot of, trying to also near to the vineyard near to the olive tree around the olive trees. Yes. Because they keep more dry, the worries put the these kinds of soil and also, helps when the rain allowed to Direct the rain. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it is true if you drive around, especially in in in, you'll see these amazing ancient stone walls there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we, you know, obviously, in you're in Poulia, also the sides from growing grapes, a tremendous olive tree population. And so I feel like we should talk a little bit about Zylenla, which is, known in English as Pierce's disease. And so in Poulia, it's not affecting your vines but it is a pest that can also affect grape vines. But we've seen it in Pulia very tragically devastate so many olive trees. I mean, I think it's up to, like, sixty percent of the olive trees. So have you encountered Zilella on your property and how do you manage it? Xilella is very, huge, a big problem. Very it's very sad to be to see a lot of trees diet. For the olive trees, especially, especially to see the olive trees like what we have from Sandra to more than one thousand years old is is real shame. I'm trying to use the the good practice as we discuss it, and and the biodiversity and use my Verizon It's kind of mushroom for improve the multisystem of the plant, applying the compost each and reach with the bacteria. Yeah. In order to enroll the more, macrobioma, good, microbioma, bioma, and, this is not a solution. But indeed, a solution has been found, by the University of Piscara. It's based on silver, thereby, study for human treatments, but work well with ciellella. This is five year of study about that, but it needs to approve the for industrial, massive production and not yet ready for, for the market. Right. And so it's fortunate that it doesn't pass very very it's very unlikely that it'll pass from olive trees to grapevines. Right? Yeah. Then the the, yeah, they can the the smell is difficult for select best from olive trees to the vine because it's a a different kind of, variation I don't know if it's what. Yeah. Yeah. And then, it's very, very, I think it's not passed to the virus, but could affect the virus because Cillella is also, a disease that can affect the virus. Yeah. But there's no such thing that, I have the the little trees. It's the different kind of of variation. And you've been fortunate on your property. You haven't had entire trees die. Right? No. Yeah. No. Until now, it is quite in good condition. We hope to say we hope that now can be worse, and then we we see we have variation to that this, solution from University of Otsuka can go to the market as soon as possible. Yeah. But also all of the, you know, work that you've been doing with all of the organic treatments and, and, etcetera, have I think been helping a lot because the difference of Yeah. Helping a lot. They yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There are some groves. It's like you said, it's so tragic, but there are some groves that have lost all of their trees completely. I mean, they're just completely brown in their bed. And Yeah. Really tragic. Okay, I'm gonna we're gonna a moment here. Gonna switch to talking a little bit more about, from farming to sales, but before we go to that, I wanna ask, what is your favorite? Like, which grape do you enjoy growing the most? On your and which one gives you the most kind of headache? Probably as new normally, this is more easy to rats, the negllemaro and, primitivo, especially negllemaro growth. Are you very well, very easily here, and the wild grapes, it'll be more difficult to grow, especially in organic, way. But results, yeah, is all very, a very nice result. The boat, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And what are some of the challenges for the whites? I mean, is it just because of the intense heat? Is the salt air a challenge? Yes. Jerry, the the white craves more sensitive, sensible. I don't know at home. Yes. Sensitive. Yeah. Sensitive to the climate change and then, down in the riots. But, yeah, a role, ten hours ago goes well. We'll see in the future what happened Yeah. I mean, I haven't from in my experience in Pulea since, you know, been going to Pulea since two thousand and six, and I haven't really seen the alcohol change much, the alcohol levels in white wine. So you're still maintaining these, again, these, like, lower alcohol, very fresh, very bright. Yeah. It's very important to get for me, for my, also, philosophy is is to produce easy to drink wine, not too iconic. Sometimes it's not easy to keep the the eye cold contents, low or because the weather, because the sun, we have a lot of sun. And then we have more or so sometime, long period with the, very hard pivot. And then Right. Yeah. But it's possible. Yeah. So how are you keeping the alcohols lower? Are you just picking earlier? Yeah. Normally is, the post important fix. It's a moment of, harvest. It's harvested to be in advance. Then, leave some, more leaves on, in the graves as and also during the verification, know, just help me to, every time there to see what's the case better way. K. Thank you for that. So we are gonna shift now a little bit more to your sales because your wine sales approach is really quite unique and you primarily sell to private clients and direct to consumers, largely avoiding distributors. So could you share more about the strategy? The the priority is very the private planning, clients is very, very important for us. The selling directly to consumer, yeah. Of course, we have higher profitability, better control of the business, deeper connection with the market as very, can be very advantageous for, for one we have a giant selling to the, to the market, to the private. But we have to say that, and, usually, amongst the, the private consumer, there's also important, The prime my private consumer arrived mainly from, private tasting that I've made here. Some of the people that came for tasting, they also recommended our wines to other some importer, the countries. And as, also the way that we meet the the importers, yeah, sometime also the importers came for vacation, come for vacation here in Pulia, and then decided to have a tasting, and then decided to import my wine. So we find both through the consumer. Yeah. And if for anyone that's interested in California, my husband port, John Carlo's fantastic white wine. It's actually his guy, Yanangan made, in Korea. So if you wanna check it out, I have a hookup for you. Yeah. But what, what other countries do you export to? I work mainly with Sweden, Denmark, Holland, the Belgium. And, now we start with a very nice and important United States. Is called Barbara. Yeah. So mostly Northern European countries. Yeah. Yeah. North Europe countries. Mainly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you do if we haven't if I haven't made it clear yet, you do everything. You manage the farming. You do a lot of the farming yourself. You maintain the property, and you host guests for for tastings. This is, like, challenging to do all of this. So how do you balance these responsibilities? Yeah. It's not easy. I wake up very early in the morning, five thirty. So we do all this, but I The the first thing for do all these kind of things is to have patience for what time, for what I do. Even challenging task, staff will become easier when you have patience. Especially when, when we receive, the feedback goes to fit before our work, and then I work very, I have, of course, the, the worker that helped me to carry on the opinion and the olive trees, I want to do something on myself as, especially the the tasting because, the people want to meet would really produce the wine. I not want to dedicate to other person, this, kind of communications, very, very important, the consumer, and then I want to, that meet him, they they meet me, and then, have direct question to the world, and, it's very nice to meet the consumer. Is better for understand also how I was going in the market. And, and here in Puerto, the last year, we have people for all, around the world or, came people from Armenia, from Brasilia, New Zealand. You know, countries, of course, and then, yeah, and then I meet, a lot of, different kind of people over on the world, and then I, I speak about the wine. And I also learn more about, the, use of consuming of the wine, the the the what is now the trendy wine in there, Chris. Yeah. So it's interesting because you get this this kind of direct, you know, you're you're gathering data directly yourself. And then applying it because you're you're farming your production is small enough that you can apply that kind of easy. Yeah. I'm very small, but, yeah, I'm very small. Yeah. But when you say very small, I didn't even ask you this. Sorry. About how many bottles do you produce a year? I produce around thirty, thirty five thousand bottle per year. Okay. Yes. Very strong. Yeah. And, what So there was also involved though with with hosting guests with selling your wine direct to consumer. There's a lot of logistical pieces that you have to figure out. And is that part challenging? Like, you have to figure out how to ship wine and, you know, how to put orders together. Did you was that easy for you to figure out, or is there some kind of learning curve with that? Yeah. It's not easy. The the wines quite different by the letter I bought before because the letter I can send her everywhere without to have any problem. But with the wine, you know, also very well in the United States because I have a state. It's different. And, different, And also when we ship the wine in in the other countries, we have different kind of duties, different kind of, and now, in the last period, I I've been using a new, a new software, from Menore from Venetor. The, also, halfway to, to, to manage the the logistics and also, the the manage the, the expect fiscal aspect at CUTs. Yeah. In the wine. And, yeah, and it worked well. Yeah. Yeah. Because that is definitely a challenge with selling direct as every place you go has different taxes, and you have to figure it out for yourself. Yeah. Now, this software, can calculate, instantly, what is the part of the county of destination, the duties, and then, set some countries in Saudi Arabia. Or food center, the wine, but most of part of the world, I manage with this kind of software. That's fantastic. What is the software called? It's called direct from winery. Direct from winery. Very easy to remember. Yeah. So what does a typical visit to your property entail if somebody wants to come do wine tasting with you? Yeah. The VISTA, my property, normally, is entirely private. By appointment. I'd like to to give attention to each person that I come for a visit, focusing on they want to know and provide it as I told before. It's very comfortable environment. It's important for me, people are coming, to make the VISTA feel at ease. This is very important. Yes. Well, I we've we've talked about this before, but, you know, I I think, Amer I can speak for Americans, and probably a lot of the world thinks really of the aspirational qualities of Italian lifestyle, you know, the Dolcevita, and you offer that. Your your your farm is La Dolcevita truly. Yeah. Yeah. It is important to give a very good, a unique experience to to the visitors. And then, we have not to follow the numb just the numbers, the numbers, thirty, forty, sixty people. I have requests for a lot of group, but then refuse because, for having a good experience, you need to be intimate and, familiar, environment and not, and normally it's not easy to have with this kind of environment in a big, a huge group. Yes. It's nice to have some kind of youth group, but not as, a normal experience that I want to offer. Yeah. And you're taking again that very kind of, like, the same the same approach that you take to your farming, the same approach you took to your leather business smaller so that you can be higher quality, even in the interactions that you have with with your guests. Yeah. Or be the same. Yeah. Not used came from the industry. In the north, when I worked with a letter, a lot of the worker and in industrial. I know very well, the industrial, whose work, and then it's it's nice. Yes, but it's part of the work. But what I'm designed to do is, have a activity in the human scale, and I want to stay this kind of size. Probably in the next year, I go a little bit, but not because huge. I don't want to be cams because I want to keep them, stay in the human scale demand naming. Yeah. And when people taste, that's so beautiful, by the way. I don't wanna just brush to another question because I think that's so lovely that you wanna make sure that this is everything that you can do, you know, with your hands and your heart. And, I love that. I love that sentiment, and I find that a lot in plenty of, that it's, I think, why it feels so good to go anywhere for you to go to a restaurant, to go to visit a winery like you because it's, people are doing it, you know, with what they can manage, what they control themselves. And so there's that degree of passion in it. Yeah. So when people taste, you do a an interesting tasting for your wine, you do you do your wine and your olive oils together. Right? Yeah. Combined, you know, wine, olive oil. I decided to combine, to do this kind of tasting. It's a bit different by normal testing because I'm producer of both wine oil. And I what I'm decided to do is to combine, to to produce, some neutrals, infused olive oil with the notes of the wine. I study, for example, for the white, that have citrus note, my wine, with the lemon, infuse it, olive oil. It's made with zest of the lemon to the oil. And then, normally, what I would do is to taste the wine. It suggests to taste the wine to the guests, and then, they have the oil on the on the local bread, called frieza, and then they retaste the wine. Then after the oil, normally has increased the notes of the wine, and the people are very happy to have this kind of taste. Yeah. And then we're gonna do the same with the five or six time, and six six kind of, wine. And what, different oils too. In oils. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's wine, oil, wine. You call it. Wow. Right? Yeah. Wow. Wow tasting. Yeah. Well, I can only wine. Yeah. Yes. Alright. So Because because most of the people, when the taste, they say, wow. And then yeah. Then I got it. Yeah. That's so great. I I was one of those people that I said, well, when I did all the tasted all the oil in the wine. So, so knowing what you know now, what advice would you give to someone starting a wine business? As I told you the first, the the passion come first, following and also the, the following by continuous and desire for knowledge. And this is also important not to eat the wine, but we all kind of feel and willingness to learn and seek help for her her spirit. We not to have to think that we know all. We have, we have to learn from all the people. It can be some part of, important things. And, I'm going to dialogue with the other producer, with, also the the with the passionate, windovers, and, to, you know, sometime we can learn from, everyone. Yeah. I love. I feel the same way. It's so important to kind of be be in a community with each other and and to we we go farther together, I think. Yeah. And so my last question for you, what aspects of running your your farm, your wine business have brought you the most fulfillment. The greatest satisfaction is saying the customer face it up, face light up when it takes my wine, feel happy and satisfied. Especially when they've come from experienced it, consumers will understand, all the hard work behind the glass that they are tasting, and there's a lot a lot of work. For I the the blocks. And then the it's very nice when they are happy and pleased to have the wine, and then also enjoy the wine. It's incredibly rewarding, to witness the the genuine enjoyment and precision what, for what they are experiencing. This is my great satisfaction. Yes. Oh, well, I'm I bet that many people come to you and enjoy the experience. So Yeah. Most Most of people are very, very happy. Two point three, very, five star reviews. So I'm very happy. Great. Yeah. I think it's hard to be unhappy in Pulia, but especially at your property. It's very easy. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very happy. Okay. Those were all of my questions for you. Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful answers. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Oh, of course. I think Absolutely. I think Steve's gonna come back and maybe, ask a couple more questions or Thank you very much, Barbara and John Carbo. You know, I feel like you guys had a very geeky discussion, but what about, like, kind of the base, especially since you met at an at a restaurant? What about the food and wine pairing? Can we go over? Can we I put the one pairing in Poria? Yes. Like, let's go over just a few, especially in the white wines. You have been to Poria? I've been to Poria. Yes. Yeah. I think as you know, there's a lot of very good, very good food. Yeah. In all Italy, we have got very good, dishes, but in Korea, there's a lot, also vegetables, can, is made in different ways. As a example, and fava beans with, with wide cicoria, and I'd like to have, with, with, there's bombates, mythos, from this area with Negramaro, there's a, yeah, a lot of seafood. We can have with the one, the Alright. Alright. Alright. Let's play a game. Okay? And, Barbara and John Carlos can both participate. Okay. Because we have Peter. We have four minutes. Okay. I'm going to say wine or a great variety, and then you give me the first plate that comes to mind in terms of food and wine pairing. Ready? Okay. I'm ready. For me, just raw seafood. It is so flavorful in puglia. And you would think that it has something on it, but it doesn't. Yeah. You you would say we have the same. Okay. Yeah. The seafoods, with regular data is a perfect Yeah. Seafood is very generic, but yeah. Okay. Alright. Next is, of course, negramaro. Negramaro, with the parmigiana. Oh, Okay. For me, I would say negative model with Stinko. So they make a lot of, like, yeah, Lamchank or Vilshank. Yeah. And it's just so Yeah. Yeah. What about Vomino Bianco? Bambino bianco, some kind of cheeses it could be. I think bambino bianco too has, like, some, some aromatic qualities to it, almost like a Moscato. And so I like it too with also with seafood, but actually I had just had this at San Carla's home, but there was this beautiful, like, shrimp caper celery salad. That was so nice. That would be so nice with Yeah. But also the floral, yeah. Yeah. Could be also with fava beans, pura. Yeah. Or we have to also mention pasta. I've I've ever had Yeah. I was finished with that, but but I was, yeah. Yeah. Wow. You're, like, much more pulling than John Carlos. That's me. Okay. And, of course, lastly, finally, we cannot go home without saying something about. I have yesterday with the big sack. Estate. Okay. And, you know, Privetivo, it it really depends because there's some primitivos that, like, you know, are almost chewy and a meal in themselves. And Jankarla makes a primitivo that is much, is very light and very, kind of restrained. And you could also have that with the with the or with the which is, like, this, this, this kind of, this, like, rolled meat that is delicious. Okay. And lastly, what about the what grounds do the Fulions used to make Rosay. There's different kind of, bullion grapes that we, you can use for, say, I use Primitivo, but there's also a variety right now popular in Polia. Mhmm. Rossello, Susumaniello. Yes. Okay. So we have come to a close, and thank you very much. I'm going to wrap it up and close-up the room. So Thanks again, Barbara, and John Cola, for joining us. Thank you, John. Thank you. Okay. Listen to the Italian wine podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, we're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Email, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.