Ep. 2198 Timur Aliahmetov interviews Alberto Tanzini of Roccapesta | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

I didn't know if I was doing something good or something bad because the only people that were tasting the wine that I produced, they were either friends of mine or were people paid by me. So not really a good sample in order to have a response from the market. Welcome to the special club house session of the Italian wine podcast. Listen in as members of the Italian wine community engage in fascinating conversations about contemporary wine topics. If you enjoyed the show, please consider donating through italian wine podcast dot com, and remember to subscribe and rate the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to Clubhouse ambassadors corner. My name is Carla Avagnolo. And today, I'm pleased to welcome Timur Ali Hamitov, and his guest, Alberto Rokapisto from Rokapisto State. Welcome, everybody. Hello. Hello, Karla. So, Timur, I'm excited to have you as a co host today, you are a young wine professional who is based in Almatika, Pakistan, and you have recently achieved the title of Italian wine Ambassador. So, first of all, big congrats to you on this huge achievement. And second, I wanna use you, actually, as the speak person for all the gen z in Kazakhstan, because I would like to understand from you when and how and why did you decided to start approaching wine. And I would like also to know if it's something common among young consumers in your city. Okay. Actually, in Afghanistan, we start working very young. So, actually, my first job was at fifteenth, and I was working, from fifteenth until eighteen in my, town called Balhash as a waiter. And then when I moved to Omati, I started, I had to be interested in interested in wine and I was, learning more and more and more about it. And, that's the only reason why I'm young and I'm in wine industry. So here, it it's pretty much common because we have a lot of failures in my age. Like, I can already name three or four of them. That's all because, we start work, with a young, about wine consumption. I would say that here, a legal age or legal age of drinking is twenty one. I'm right now working in a wine bar in Agora, and I can say that I see a lot of people my age trying drinking wine. I would say gen Z is more open for experiments. It's more open for trying something new. Even if they don't have enough money, even if, they don't know anything about, why all other spirits, they are always very curious to try something new. So here we have a pretty pretty young wine consumption community, I would say. This sounds very exciting for I believe if I was a wine producer, this would be the ideal scenario. And before starting the recording of this session, you actually mentioned that your guests wines, so Racapiesa wines are getting established or getting more and more are becoming more and more appealing to the to the local consumers. So may I ask you how did you discover about his wines and why did you decide to invite Alberto here with us today? So, actually, it's pretty simple. Like, Tuscany was always, one of my favorite wine. It's Italian wine regions. And, I had a lot of, particular interest in Marema wines, especially Maraden's Kansana wines. Where, where a long time, we don't we didn't have, good producers from there. Most of most of producers for needs a a very, very base label wine producers. So, like, that are making one, two dollars wines. Well, I would like blue blue wines. And, I didn't have a chance to try it. But not long time ago. We're wine selling company called SS and D cuts, imported Roccapesto wines, and I was so, again, it happened very simply. Recopesto became the first producer from Marima that was presented zones, got a shelf where I work. It's all happened because, our wine company, imported Racapesta Wains, and, Racapesta was the first wines from Marima that I've tried, especially if I say about, Maraninz Kazana. Before we had Marima wines, but all of them were bulk wines, glue glue wines that were that were costing, like, one, two dollars. And they didn't, give us a full expressions, a full expression of terriers, and great varieties. I couldn't understand the world regions, hard to, but I would say, taste of the wine from the, and that's why I wanted to invite today, Alberto. That that is the main reason because he was the first one. His wines for the first one. To test trades, from Marima. I feel like Marima, it's a small gem that still a lot of group of people have to discover. So I'm very much looking forward to this conversation, actually. So one last question before passing the mic to you. What are the learning objectives that we should expect from this interview? Actually, I would like to to talk about a Marima as, Marima is, Wayne Grove, Richard, how they promoting Marima's, wine market not only on Casistan, but, like, all over the world, does the world has an interest in this way. And, I would like to talk about a philosophy of Racapesta and, how Racapesta being a very young winery relatively because in Italy, like, every wineries one hundred twenty hun two hundred three hundred years old, and the work of best is only twenty years old, created its own unique style, how they they are doing it, that what I would like to ask today. Sounds lovely. First of all, I would like to say, one more time. Ciao alberta. Nice to see you today here. Ciao, Tivo. Thank you for inviting me. Actually, I'm very thankful for you that you came today because I was trying to connect, with the benefit possible. I was trying to connect, not only with the with the from, software. It was impossible too. And, thanks to you that you communicated with me that you are today on Italian White Podcast. I'm really, really grateful for that. Maybe you would like to say some, first words to start a conversation. Maybe you have some questions. Maybe you would like to ask, firstly something. Thank you very much. Well, again, for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here with you. And, I will be very happy to answer your questions about what, makes Marima Tuscana special region and also what is the philosophy of rocket paste and winemaking. But Okay. Thanks. So I would like to start his first question that is, as I said earlier, Rachapesta is relatively young winery. I just wanted to know how did you come to start making wine? What was the reason, where you bought not winery, but, wines, how it all started, how it all began? Yes. Actually, everything began from the neurological point of view, a little bit more than twenty years ago. It was two thousand three. And, actually, I was working as a financial consultant in Milan. So not really much involved into agriculture or winemaking. And I found this that was supposed to be a holiday house in Marima. And within the house, there was also a little seller and a few actors of vineyards, around three actors of vineyards. And I took it as a hobby. I took it as a, something to do in my free time. But, actually, in just a few years. Let's say in four years time, what was supposed to be a hobby actually became my main activity. And so, with the time going by, Now we have thirty two actors of vineyards, an overall production of a bit more of one hundred thousand bottles a year, and a new seller, and a very interesting project to to begin to know and explore the potential of this wine region that, as you said, before, it's a very new wine region. Consider that the appelation of morelino Discansano is dated nineteen seventy eight. So it is very young compared to much older appalachians from Kim from Tuscany. It's very interesting to hear that this was firstly just like a small hobby, but, I'm very glad that everything goes well. When you started making one, did it take a lot of interest from this interest from the start? Or was it a hard job to make a world know about your when? Very interesting question. I'd like to tell you what was my feeling at the very beginning of this story. When I bought this little winery. I went to have some consultancy from some much older producers from this region. So I went to meet them, and I asked them, look, I have this kind of plan for making a wine in this region that it will not be, wine to be drunk right away as it was at that time. But I would love to age this wine for some time in the seller and maybe to sell it after two years on a higher price rate. And I have to confess that at least four out of five of these producers told me that it was not the good strategy. And, I would have done much better to change my plan for the future. Fortunately, I didn't do it, and it, we came to what Rocapesta is today. But again, I was what is very interesting to me is to tell you that in the very first two years of winemaking, I was producing wine, but I was not selling wine because I was keeping keeping it in the cellar for some aging. What what is the fun part of this is that I didn't know if I was doing something good or something bad because the only people that were tasting the wine that I produced, they were either friends of mine or were people paid by me. So not really a good sample in order to have a response from the market. It was only in two thousand six when for the very first time, I attended the Vin Italy. It's this Italian wine fair that is held every year in Verona. And for the really for the only time in my life, I was able to sell wine exactly during the wine fair. And, actually, I sold all of my wine at the wine fair. So the very first approach to the market was a very lucky approach. So I'm not saying I had much of the the the reason of this success, but sometimes it's very important to be lucky in life. And in that situation, I was very lucky, but it gave me a lot of positive feelings towards this, this activity and help me to to begin with some optimistic outcome. It's really cool to hear that you've tried to make a cool wines right away. You did you didn't want to make, bulk wines, I don't think that this was, luck. It was all your work and, your strategy that, went well, because, you know, it needs, a lot of, a lot of bravery to a lot of crushed to go against everyone else, make as you think as you feel as, you see a good way, should be. Kim, I was twenty years younger. And when you are younger, it's easier. To be brave than than afterwards. That's why I'm today to make an effort cast. I wanted to ask what does, your bid for call to farms mean? On every bottle you have it. So the the symbol, the logo that you have on the labels is a combination of the past part of my life because what is around the big tone that is in the middle of, the logo. It's the part of the logo of the village where I come from. So the name of this village is Monte Gary. It's it's in the north end part of Italy, right in the middle between Milan and Venice. So that part of the logo comes from there. And the stone that is in the middle of that part, it's a very huge stone that I found during the preparation of the soil to plant new vineyards at the rockapester. So it was such a big stone that it took two days to take it out of the soil of the land. Actually, it was not me doing it by hands, but it was very big, machines, very powerful and big machines that had the possibility to move these twenty five ton's stone. And then it took one other day to to take it to the entrance of the winery. But once it was here, we were not able to put it on the place where I wanted it to be as a welcome sign when you get a de winery. So I had to call for some even bigger machines from Rome and they were able to put it straight on the place where we wanted it to be. So that stone is what you will find when we you will come to visit us at the entrance of the winery. And that stone is the symbol of rockapesta because rockapesta is named made of two different nouns. Rock means rock. So it's both in the meaning of rock as a piece of big piece of stone, but also rock in Italian means a military fortress. So some place that is dominating the surroundings but with no real comfort inside the place. And Marima is very similar to this. It's a very beautiful place, but with not much comfort. But from here, we can really see all the surroundings that are around us. And pasta, it's Italian verb to say, to stat with the fit on something. And it is related to this action to squeeze press the grapes, stepping with the feet above them, on them. So in a way, to make the wine in a very traditional style without, too much additions from the neurological sector and without too much machines involved in this process of winemaking. So we wanted these to be as traditional, as possible. Really cool. So you've, you've choose the, biodynamic and organic line techniques from the start, or it was after? We did it on the way, and we are not certified either as organic or pandemic, because we don't fulfill all the single elements of these philosophies, but what we are trying to do is to take the best out of every single discipline. So, the the main approach we have towards the vineyards is that we are not really, telling the vines what to do. We can only help the vines to to manage the the vintage in the best possible way. So the intervention we have towards the managing of the vineyards is to know as much as possible in order to do as less as possible. Because if I know everything about what's happening in my vineyards, it means I know when the vines are lacking every single element. And if I recognize this situation, it's a potential stress since the beginning with a very, very small action, I can rebalance the situation of the vines. But if I wait until it's too late to to make this little intervention, then I have to make a bigger intervention where more chemicals or more other materials are requested, but this is not what we want to do. We want really the vines to be the expression of our terroir. And we don't want to change the terroir. We don't want to change the way these vines can adapt to our water bar. We can only check monitor very, very carefully what's happening to give very little aids at the very right time to the vines. This philosophy is one of my lovers because, like, I would say nine out of ten producers that I like will be always with the same philosophy, philosophy that, you have of minimum intervention or intervention of whites, minimum, contact with them, So that's why you choose gravity when making to begin with. Yes? Absolutely. Is it hard to make, gravity when making work, is it, much harder than making it in a traditional way? To tell you the truth? No. There is really no big difference. The only thing you really need to have is a place where the grapes are introduced in the cellar that is much higher compared to the level where the the barrels, the containers, the tanks for the humidification are. So it's not hop it's not possible for all sellers to have this, several floor with floor's way of, making the wine, but we were lucky that we had it at the winery when when we bought it a few years ago. And then when we enlarged the the seller ten years ago, we made it on a lower level compared to what was the actual level of the seller so that we can really complete all of the process just by gravity. On the other side, I have also to admit that right now, there are machines that are able to manage this movement of the grapes or of the wine from one level to the other on on a very high quality standards. But, anyway, we we can do it the other way around. At at least we can save energy in that way. Okay. Under studio. Actually, the next questions that I would like to ask is, about, wines made out of ponytail a great variety. It's not very common, for producers, even small producers to make from it because Not a lot of people understand it. And so I tried it, and I can say that you produce a very high level of me, Taylor. I love it. I did, even put it on the glass when we have Italian and wine special week, and a lot of people tried it. They said, the same thing as me, and they wanted to know how you did you decide to work with this variety? Did you have already wines, planted when you buy bought, winery or it was your decision to have a ponytail on a vineyard and, making a wine out of it. Thank you for this question because, Puatello is something that really very few people know about. And there is a very, very curious story about this great variety. And in particular, it belongs to the most ancient tradition of winemaking in Tuscany, and Puitello was widespread out of Tuscany in Kianti region and especially in Marima region. But for some reason, in, in the late sixties, seventeenth, from the twentieth century, it was almost disappeared. And there is a reason why it was disappeared because it makes it produces a very, very low number of grapes or bunches Why does it happen? Because it is the characteristic of this variety. So it's a variety that is a very low yield, of production. For this reason, if you go back to the mid of last century, the the divine growers wanted grapes variety making a lot of grapes because why Italian wine at that time was focused on quantity and not on quality. So whenever they found some Punitello, they, overgrafted Punitello with another variety that was much more productive. And leader by leader Punitelo was almost disappeared. It was only thanks to the University of Florence that at the end of the nineties, made a very wide research through task and dinners looking for varieties that had never been selected before or that were that were almost disappeared. They found several varieties like this. I don't remember exactly the number. I think something like thirty or forty grape varieties. And together with the support from big wine companies, they planted all these varieties. They waited for the grapes to to to get product tip, and they waited for ten other years to see how it was this wine. And after ten years time, so after such a long period, they published a report saying, okay. We understand why some or most of these varieties are disappearing, but there are a few of them that we strongly recommend to reintroduce in, task and winemaking because they are very interesting from an illogical point of view. And at that time, the time when this report, this paper, was published, I was planting, the very first vineyards at Rocapesta. And, there was some space left to plant something else than sangiovese. I wanted. I was very curious to try something different, but I wanted something different within the tepidity of tusks and winemaking. So I didn't want to use international grape varieties like Merlo Cabernet or something else. And so I at the end, I chose Puitello because it was selected by the University of Florence just a few kilometers away from Scansano. And so I thought it might have been very good to replan this grape variety. Sorry. This grape variety just here where it was found again from from the university. And the one curious thing about, think about the name in Italian means fist It's a closed hand. Punitello is because the shape of the bunch is like a closed hand. It's like a little fist. That's the reason for this name. So it's pretty cool to hear that you wanted to, like, not only safe, but, make world know about, this grape variety. It's, very, very respectful. I would say, And because we you've already talked about international grape varieties, I would like to ask, are you thinking about cultivating them, in the future, or you will not do it, because we have very good example of, combination of, mariniscazanas or Marema San jawessa with international varieties like Roco Defracenella who's making a high level of wines, in combination of, matter law. Do you think about, trying to make something like that or you will only work with, I would say, like, national varieties, only with other touch tones? Yes. I'm not planning to use international grape varieties for very simple reason. You know, before I used the the the name Sanjovese, but when I speak about Sanjovese, I'm not speaking of something with a very single identity because the clones available on the market of Sanjuviso are more than one hundred. Right now, I planted a bit more than thirty different clones of Sanjuviso on my fields, on my vineyards, but I still have to experiment more than seventy other clones. And so the purpose, the philosophy of Roca Pesta is to really find the most authentic, the most true, the most typical expression of San Jose that belongs to Marima Tuscana. And Marima Tuscana is very different to the other places where San Jose is very well known because what makes Marraine Matoskana, totally different to Chanti classical or to Montalcino, is one single aspect. And that is the amount of sun ray that we have during the year. Please consider that Marima Tuscana is the only other place in Italy to have the same sunshine as in Sicily. And Sicily is one island in the middle of the ocean the Mediterranean Sea, and it is much, much southern than than Maraima. So it means that we have some special condition that gives a very strong personality to the SanJovese we can produce in, in Skansano. So what is my goal? My target is to identify and to make clear to our customers, to our clients, what can San Jose do in, in Marima toscana? And it is totally different from what happens in the inner part of Tuscany. Of course, there is something in common because the the elegance, the drinkability, the verticality, the timmins are, or sure, identifying sangiovese here as in the other part of Tuscany. But the difference that comes after this amount of sun rays is that we have a higher maturation. My higher maturation gives, the give the possibility to have a smoother rounder and also suite to style of Sanjay compared to to the other parts of Tuscan. I like your answer. I've actually, I thought that you will answer, like, in, this way because, all of your wines are fullest expressions of Maraimo of Sanjay Vazza. And, I I've tried, all of the wines that we imported in Canada. And I would like to say that yes, they are, more extractive and As I know, you don't use, much o in your Wain seller, I would say, easy to avoid, loss of, color, loss of extraction of the Wain, And, as I know, you, don't have, very, very long aged wines. The the the longest that you have is, marinadeskazana rizero ones that's, comes two years after taking grapes and making wine. Yes. So the the the longest we have, actually, it's three years that is the rock up history server, and it stays just for eighteen months in barrels and then eighteen months in the bottle before we release it to the market. Yeah. There is there is there are a few reasons actually for this choice. First of all, Morellino Discansano is known by the consumer as a wine to be drunk right away. So it's not easy at all to change this idea that is in the mind of the consumer. It is not my idea of moralino, this concern, but in some way, I have to deal with this idea that is on the market. On the other side, we don't use much oak because first of all, you know how to use oak. And I have to confess that we are not so, experienced in this part of the business of the wine making. So at the beginning, I preferred, and I still prefer to use bigger oak bars that don't have a strong impact on the taste of the wine and of the grapes because I want to be sure that the wines that we are offering our clients, first of all, I want them to be with the taste from the terroir. And the terroir are the grapes, and the terroir is the the fruity, the juicy style of the wine. Little by little, we will learn, we will improve to use oak in the best way. But we are still working on that. We are, we have a little bit easier approach because we are still trying to know as much as possible the identity of every single clone that we have in the Veneers. And oak aging in some way will change the identity of the wine. Of course, it can change it in a positive way putting the wine on a higher level, but I I love to keep it as a potential to have, a further improvement of improvement of my wines in the future, but I'm still working with the basics. So I'm still a boy at the elementary school. So Oak will be for the secondary schools, but it's still too too early to do to make this step now. In fact, we could say that in the future, we we can expect from you, very limited wine, from a single vineyard, I would say, that will be age, and it will be, like, whatever a high level, but when you will end, secondary scope. Yes. Absolutely. So I'm not much far away, but I still need some some more time. Okay. I understand. I'll wait for this, and, you can be sure that I will be the first person in Kazakhstan to try it and to sell it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next question that I would like to ask you will be about, expanding, your, vineyards expanding it further, like, for example, are you interested in trying out by seven years, maybe in, brunello de mentaschina, maybe in, Silvertta, maybe in Kianti in Bulgaria. What do you think about it, or you think only about, Marima right now? No. I'm not really thinking to produce anything out of Skansano. Because again, you know, the one of the very good things to be in a very young wine region is there is so much to do. So many things to do that really you don't need to go in other places to find something that has never been done before. Within the area of moral interest this concern, or there is a very wide range of possibilities. Just imagine that, Marima means a stripe of land between the sea and the mountain. It means that the vineyards in Skansano can go from zero meters above the sea level up to six hundred meters above the sea level with three different main geologic origins and with such a huge variety of soil, and it really gives you a lot of possibility to to make everything you want to do. Actually, what we are doing in this last six, seven years is that we are exploring, different areas within the bill that the the terroir of Scansano. Because rockapesta is around two hundred and fifty meters above the sea level, many, many stones, a lot of clay, southwest oriented. We wanted to find something else. So we found four other areas within the the appalachian that goes on three hundred to three hundred and fifty meters, four hundred and fifty meters, and five hundred and fifty meters above the sea level. With different soils, with different orientation, with different exposures, with different way to to manage the vineyards. And we really found many, many different things. And, the single vineyard wine that we are beginning to offer on the market, like the vineyardza, And the the majority that they just released a few weeks ago, they are from every single area of the Terwaras Consarno that we found very, very interesting. And what we are trying to do is to use this, single areas to go deeper in the knowledge of San Jose in this area. But you also want to find, a summary of this different souls of the terroir. And the rockcapesta is the wine where all these different souls are living in just one bottle. So we have the crew. We have the single vineer's wine where we want to find the extreme expression of that single terwar. But then we want all these extreme expressions to live nicely in just one wine that is the summary is the same disease of all expressions of Sanjuviso's concern, and that wine is rock up as the wine. So if you talk about, expression of sangiovese wines, I had a question, like, it was do you have a dream wine if so, what would what would it be? But now I understand that you are already making a dream wine that that you see. Is it true? It is. It is absolutely true. So the dream wine is, of course, the the most balanced wine that you can drink and enjoy now and drink and enjoy in twenty years time. This is from my point of view. And, of course, this wine must give you some feelings. This must be a kind of wine that makes you think about it. It's not just something you drink and forget about it, but you must think why there is something that gives me such satisfaction. And it's even better if you cannot recognize what is the reason for that satisfaction because that means that, it's the personality of the wine, the full balance of the wine that gives this feeling altogether. But, of course, it can happen only on the most located vineyards, and it can happen only in the best vintages. And this is another point that to make wise, me means to have just one possibility a year to make a new experiment because you can harvest grapes just once a year. And so it makes it makes it even more difficult to get an experience in this kind of business. Okay. I wish you luck to, have, less bad vintages and more and more good experiments. Starting from this, I would, I'd like to know you don't produce white wines or maybe I'm mistaken on your already producing them, but, we don't have them right now. So is there any reason for it or do you plan to try it in the future? Maybe we could see, one hundred percent Malvasia from you or TDana did just kinda no. No. No. The idea to make white wines. So as you see, I am very focused on Sajeviza, actually. So this is my main purpose. I want to be able one day to say I found a new expression of sangiovese that is not possible to produce in Canti or in Montalcino or in Montepulciano or any other other place. And I would love that when you try this expression of sangiovese, the first winery you think about is Rocapesta. It means I I will have, made something good for for the terwar, for the appalachian, and for occupation itself. So maybe if you work with San Java, maybe you would introduce us to the world first, ever best, Rosessa, Angeliza. No. Again? Nope. Actually, I I have to confess. I've tried for three times to make, some, reasonable rosy. But, again, it's is not in my course. So that is not something I have been successful. So I totally forgot about it. And, again, I'm concentrating only on the most traditional way to to make Sanjuviso and it is the the red way, the red wine. And, actually, I wanted to ask a question, like, which wine from your collection do consider it as a flagship, but now I understand there is no other choice than, Maradin Discazana. I think the very good aging for the sangiovese, in Wisconsin, it's around three years. And especially to have one or two years, barrel aging, oak aging, and one, two years bottle aging. Since this point in time, it is the best timing to drink, my more advanced consano. And this kind of wine, is the rocket pesto reservoir. It does mean that it cannot get even better with a longer aging, but is really depending on the single taste of the single consumer. So, I will never say the best time to drink the wine is after x years. It is when you like it. That that's that's the answer. The the my part of the job is to make the the the the wine very enjoyable starting from two, three years time aging up to ten, fifteen, or twenty years when we have the best vintages. And again, talking about Roca Pesta, I I love it because it is really, the summary of different identities of San Jose, Wisconsin. And when we make the blend of sangiovi, of our Capesta, we really try to make our best to make every single soul of of sangiovese is considered to be represented in that bottle of wine. Actually, from this, I would like to know, what can you tell us about interacting with a local or maybe some international wine experts and critics, how they react on your philosophy how they react on your wines? What did they say? Do they, understand all of the beauty of your wines? Yeah. Thank you for this question. I am very much concentrated right now on the Italian market. Because first of all, I am a small winery and as a small winery, there are not so many resources to spend money going around the world. My idea is that first of all, I have to promote the identity of this sangiovese of Scansano in Italy where, it's easier for me to explain the the the job we are doing at Racapesta. And people can more easily come to visit the winery and so to touch by directly by themselves the job that we are doing here. And it is very, very important because when a winery like roka pesta is going against the the main idea of an operation must really prove its job in a very, very hard way. But what we are experiencing right now is that as many foreign wine distributors, wine importers are visiting Italy often, it's getting quite common now that they come to Italy they try Italian, in Italy, rockapester wines, and then they write me, and they said, wow. We are really curious about work your wines. And in this way, sometime, we are able to begin export markets not going ourselves outside of Italy, but thanks to the importance that visit Italy and try our wines in Italy, and we are able able to open new markets. So, it's a pretty common situation when, people try your wine in Italy and he can find it in, his own country right now. Let's say that we are, selling in around fifteen countries right now, mainly, in Europe. Outside of Europe, we have, well, yule, Japan and Singapore, and, and Russian. But, again, we are very happy with these markets. We do everything we can to support with mass with these these markets, and I'm very much willing to to visit, Kazakhstan or other countries to give a direct explanation of what we are doing here at Rockapesta. But there is so much work to do here at Rockapesta, and we are still in this very young part of the market a a story of the life of a winery where we still have to put a lot of efforts to understand what we are doing. And most of all, what we can do in the future. And there is really a lot more we can do in the future. Where is Sierra Capestains the future? Like, how big your winery will be, what wines, we should expect from you? Maybe you would like to have some achievements of arts, or something like that. To tell the truth when I began, I didn't have, enough knowledge of the wine world to have a clear idea of, where I would have loved to be. Since ten years ago, I have a much more clear idea of what I want to be, but I've seen my ideas changing and evolving during the time. So now I will tell you something, but I'm not sure. I it will be the same that I would tell you in five or ten years time. Anyway, I'm very happy that finally, at least on the Italian markets, we have been recognized by all the wine guides as, one of the most important wineries for quality in Marema toscana and, in this part of, of Tuscany. Of course, we need really to make a lot of, studies on these possibilities of this winemaking region. So my really, my dream for the future is to have the possibility to plant a few more villagers, not much because I want to remain a small winery. Don't want to change it. So there is there is room for at least seven, eight hectares of vineyards more, not not more than that. And we are already working on the four next actors. So there is not much space left to, improve to enlarge the production side. What I would really love to do is to find this style of sangiovese to recognize in a very easy way. So the sun gives smoothness, softness, gives a sweeter style to the wine. So I would really love to, describe in a very easy, but in a very factual way the style of Sanjuvez from Consano. So, we're glad to hear it that you want, to be a small winery, not to you don't want to be, like, wine business, and you want to be a wine rated, that's a best marlon disc designer in the world. And I'm very happy to have you here today. Thanks. For answering my questions. I hope we didn't take much time from you. And now I'm very hyped up to see your winery. I think I'll have a chance in, April. The last question. Will I see you in, Verona on the year? This year, actually, we decided not to attend the the the wine fair, but I will surely be there. And also, the wine will be there in, not my direct put, but in a distributor button because, again, we are concentrating on a more direct approach to the market. And for some reason, the wine fair at least from our experience from the very last years, probably it was our fault as we were, not preparing the fur in a proper way, but we were meeting the usual clients. It was very difficult for us to meet new clients. So we try to change the way we are, involved in the wine fair, not with the direct, boot anymore, but within the boot of, our distributor. So that means that I'll see you soon. It's absolutely safe. I I will be there, and we can meet there, for sure. So, okay. Done, I'm really waiting for this moment. I'm saying you thank you one more time for coming today for answering the questions. Maybe you should have something to say in the end and we can No. No. I I surely want to thank you in particular and all of your clients in Kazakhstan because for sure when I began twenty years ago, I would have never imagined to have my wines in, in your country to have found you that, interested my wines to me is a very, very big satisfaction. So thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you for the message that you are sending to to your clients. It's okay. Let's say, hello, and thanks to Kazakhstan, and we will end, today's podcast on this, good note. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. We ran out of time for you, but it's been a pleasure. It's been truly insightful. So I'm looking forward to taste the wine and see you soon. I either in verona or somewhere, but hopefully I'll see you soon. Thanks to you too for making it happen today, and one more time. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud Apple Podcasts, Spotify, IFM and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication until next time.