Ep. 2281 Julianne Farricker IWA interviews Mattia Montanari of Opera 02 Winery | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

The battery protection starting in a Lambrusco can. But at the same time, I want to change, this concept. And so I want to fill the can with, a premium, Nebraska. And, of course, the can is, one hundred percent, recycle. Illuminium is not heavy, like, the bottle of the wine. And I'm very close to the nature and to the new organic new philosophy. And so I want to change this concept about the Lamroosting Mackand. Welcome to the special clubhouse session of the Italian wine podcast. Listen in as members of the Italian wine community engage in vaccinating conversations about contemporary wine topics. If you enjoyed the show, please consider donating through Italian Whitepodcast dot com, and remember to subscribe and rate the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to club house the ambassadors corner. My name is Cararaviano, and today I'm pleased to welcome Julian Faraker and her guest, Matia Montanari from operator Zeruduwe winery. Welcome, everybody. Thank you so much. Comeum. Welcome. Our pleasure. So Julian is today's host, but before passing the mic to her, I would like to tell our listeners a few information about her background. So, Julian, also known as Julie for her friends, is an Italian wine Ambassador based in Florida USA. She is the co owner of the Italian seller, where she also serves as the Italian wine scholar and Ambassador of cultural experiences I learned that from the website, Julie. Is that correct? Would you tell us a bit more about it? Yes. So I'm basically the Italy expert in residence. So I talk about Italy all the time, and then, of course, you know, educate about Italy's culture, through travel, and then, of course, that's gastronomy. Yes. Also because for those of you who may not know, Julie has visited all twenty regions of Italy, especially focusing on her maternal roots on the island of Stromboli of this Sillion shores, which sounds lovely. Do you go back often? Yes. It's actually funny because usually when I visit Oparzeto Duway, it's always after I've been to Strombleed. So I visit Thromboli a few times a year. And then from there, I go back to the mainland, and then make my way to, you know, the Modena region, and then back to Milano before returning to the United States. But, yes, Thromboli is like my second home. Got it. Since you've already mentioned, would you like to tell us, how did you discover about this winery? So it's interesting. I had discovered, Operzero Duway only because I was at the Ferdati Museum in Maranello, This would have been about two thousand fifteen. And I had gone up to the desk and said, you know, I'd really like to have a really nice experience with, you know, typical food and a really good view of the region. You know, could you make a recommendation? Because I had already gone to the famous restaurants in Maranello, like, you know, El Cabelino and the other like Montania. So the person at the desk was like, well, you need to drive out you know, about twenty minutes to, and once you see the view and taste the food and everything, and it's great for Lambrusco, you'll really love it. So it was a recommendation actually from the Federal Museum. And so I drove out there after my visit at the museum, and I was hooked as soon as I saw the hills, and then, of course, the meal that I had had was amazing. I said, this is it, this is my place. Was there Matia there to welcome you? How did you meet Matia? And why did you decide to invite him today? So I don't remember if Matia was there the first time because I had been there that was like an evening. But then when I had noticed that the restaurant, there's also a resort. So there are eight rooms. So it's basically like a little wine resort, and they also make balsamic vinegar. So when I had noticed that it's a property that you can eat, So you can dine. You can taste wine. You can have balsamic vinegar. And the view of that area, because it's castelvetradimodina. And that zone was just amazing. I said, you know what? The next time I come back to Italy, I'm going to come here. So it was probably either the next trip or maybe another one after because I've been there so often, but that I probably would have met Matia through one of the wine tours because they do, you know, a wine tour of the different, wines that they have, and, and, of course, we'll talk about balsamic vinegar. And he probably gave the tour, and that's how I'd probably initially met him. But this would have been probably nine years ago. Wow. So it's been a very long friendship, if I may say, with, with, Matia and the winery. One last question, and then I'll pass the mic to you. What do you plan to discuss with Matia today, and what are the learning object objectives that we should expect from this interview? Okay. So because of the zone that we're talking about today, It's really well known for Lambrusco Garosa. And, of course, any student of wine who's studying Lambrusco, there's a specific uniqueness to that type of wine in the world of Lambrusco. So we're so Mattea will be talking about his Lambrusco, of course, And then any other native grapes that are utilized in Amelia romagna because apple Prazero Duwe, there's also wines made with like Malibu, genteelay, so that will be discussed as well. And then if we're in Amelia Romagna, we know that it's a gastronomic capital of Italy. You know, with my roots, with Sicily, of course, we're not going to compare Sicily to Amelia, but when we think about the food And, of course, the rich pairings that are perfect for Lambrusco. I'm sure Matilla will tell us about some of those too. So we'll all become Lambrusco Garasparosa and pairing masters. Looking forward to it, can wait for your conversation as a big Lambrusco fan. So I'll now mute myself so you can prefer to introduce your guest. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. Good evening, Matia. How are you? Yeah. Julie. Fine. And you? I am doing very well. Thank you. So just a little bit about Matia before I ask you some questions, gens. So my Tea Montanati started producing wine twenty three years ago, so that would be two thousand two. And he's a first generation winemaker, although he actually studied and graduated in economics. Very interesting as I'm also an economics teacher. It was early on that he decided that he preferred grapes to numbers, and his mission from the beginning at Oprah, zero Duwey, from the two thousand two, has been to elevate an associate Lambrusco with quality and innovation, something which hasn't been done before. So, again, thank you for joining us today, Matia. We just wanted to highlight Oprisero Duwe and Yolambruzco and such. So I thought I'd ask you some questions. Perfect. Yes. Thank you. Alright. So it's interesting. As I said, I'm an economics teacher and you studied economics. So to go from economics to the wine world, you know, that's quite a jump. So tell us about how you entered the wine world in Italy first. Yeah. After my my degree in economics, I decided to change my vision. So I open open a zero two in, two thousand and two, because I grew up in the heart of Lambrisco Hills and in the Labrisco Gresparosa area. So when I was child, I used to play in the vineyards while my grandmother worked on the vine. So my goals was, to promote a new kind of Lamruzco because, you know, the in the past, the Lamruzco had a bad reputation because, massive exploitation, massive production, bad production process. And so I want to produce a a high quality and organic, So I bought a cowshed for actors, a land, start fermenting, this new concept. Yes. And that's really interesting to note that the zone that you're that you live in. Because that's why I mentioned Oprézero Du is one of my favorite spots as well, because it's such a beautiful view, and it's to me the quintessential postcard of Amelia Romagna. And that's why it's like a total experience with the Lambrusco wine and such. So again, when we talk about your specific lambbrusco. So what do you think about your, of course, the grape, lambbrusco, Corasparosa? What makes that grape so special? So, you know, the Grasparosa is, one of the three main varieties of Limbrusco. You know, there are, Salamino and the Turbara, but the Grasparosa is the deep red sparkling So it it's unique all over the world because, you know, it's, red in the parking. So you can combine very different kind of dishes. And so it's red through it. It's just a bit tannins. And, as parting. So it's very special. Yes. I noticed the color too. It has some type of, like, a fleshiness to it. It's almost like a violet, very rich, very deep, you know, I know. The full name for me is the the this violet reflects it's amazing. Yes. It's beautiful. Beautiful wine. So then, of course, you talked about the other two Lambrusco grapes. So when you think about your wines that you sell, so I know, of course, I've tasted all of them. Over the years. So, of course One hundred percent. Yes. The And then, of course, you've used. Okay. And so soda butter and, salamino for others. So when we also talk about your other wines that you've beenify, do you use any of the other native grapes from Amelia romagna for some of those wines? Yeah. So in my farm, I verify and to make a pinolletto. Maybe a lot of people may recognize the pinolletto than, and, variety. But I make very small quantities of feature. So we we use the only for the our customers in the resort and the restaurant and not for the export because we sell, eighty five percent of our production outside the mineral, but not for the Malo gentile and, and the pinolletto because it's very small quantity. So we use only for, our result. And yes, I've tried those. They're amazing. All the wines are amazing. Love them every single time. And so when we talk about two, especially because this is something that has come up, and I know I've asked other winemakers. So have you noticed any effects of climate change with your vines? And how do you think you might have to, you know, respond to that in the future? I mean, Chase, it's a problem. It means, every vintage is, every year is, really different. So some year, we have a lot of rain. Some year, we don't have rain. So it is not easy right now to produce, wines, not only, of course, in Lambrutcomat. And I imagine also, you know, all the Italy, too. And so it's not for nothing easy. Of course, sometimes, we we prefer to have a harvest, at the beginning of September. Sometimes, at the end of September, sometimes in the middle of, August, because, of course, the rain and, and the sun, of course, change all the the levels of the residual sugar, of the the pH, the acidity, the acidities change, you know, really short time. And so the harvest, is very difficult, to find the right way to to start the harvest because, of course, the the climate change in every year. Yes. And as someone who travels to Italy often, you know, I can tell the difference in the summers every year. And when I'm there, the headlines will always be hottest summer in Italy on record, but now this is happening every year. And then, of course, in Amelia Romagna, unfortunately, I think the last time I was there was, early October, there was flooding, and there had been flooding before. So the recent flooding that's been happening in your region, does that ever affect your part of Amelia Romagna, or has that affected your part of the wine region at all? Fortunately for us, is different because we are on the top of the hill. And so nothing happened. So for our resort and for our farm. But, in Romania, so in our society, and in the north of modern and a fed plan, of course, destroy a lot of, actors, of vineyards. Yes. Because if I remember correctly, I had left, and then I was driving towards Le Marque. And so I would have been on the Autostrada through Romania, and I remember even seeing the vines from the Autostrada thinking. Oh my gosh. This is just horrible. And that's but these are the realities just like as someone I live in Florida threat hurricanes or threats. It's like a new reality in Italy and its wine regions has they have to adjust to this. So but hopefully, you know, your side is always protected. Like you said, being on top of that beautiful hill. Okay. So you talked about your wines and Mhmm. Of course, because you have the amazing restaurant, and I've tried the menu, all different combinations, of course. So when we think about if you were there, as you've told me before, other times when I visited, what would be some of the best pairings with your food and your wines? Like, what would you recommend? Lambrozco, like, I told you before, he's a parking lot. So you can start the in aperative, like, Paris and Caesar, and it's fantastic, of course, fantastic product from our region. So it's perfect with Lambrusco and continues with, tortellini, our, traditional, dishes of, Emilia Romania. And so this, for me, is the best pairing for our region, for our food and our Lambrusco. But at the same time, Lambrusco is, very fantastic wine because you can pull Lambrusco with different, cuisine, different kitchen from, American product, like, also, Amburger, or Crispind Daccruals, so for me, it's a fantastic, a combination, and when I travel into United States, and I try different food with, Lambrusco pairing is, is a fantastic, it's amazing because Lambrusco, It's fantastic. We've had very different kind of dishes, not only for, for our region, but, Asian, and, American, so is that a fantastic? Yes. We would call it very versatile because it can go well with so many different dishes, and it's something as a wine drinker, I like Lambrusco, especially because it's lighter. You know? Yeah. Another bind. Yes. Because when I'm in Italy in the summer, as I probably have lamented many times, when I'm there, it's very hot. And sometimes very panic wines to me, it's just they're too heavy, and I prefer something light, such like that's why Lamborusco is always a perfect fit because of and then, of course, it's also chilled, which makes it even better. So that's great. And so then would you say overall for the Amelia Romagna region? Would like tortellini be your favorite regional food? Or because when we think of everything, like, I just always think of mortetadala, I think it'll parmigiano reggiano. Basically, it's like a love affair with food in that region. So it would be your favorite regional food. For me, I mean, Romania, it's, it is a is a fantastic region, for the food. And because a lot of, products from Italy is made in the media, Romania. So you can imagine, but Samik vinegar, parmesan, parmesan cheese, So all the product, tortellini, mortadella, of course, mortadella, more in bologna, but, of course, it's fantastic. So a lot of foods, sir, come from Emilia Romania. And right now, thanks to Baturra, maybe, I mean, Romania, it's fantastic, real tool to visit. And, because, at the beginning, the American people, they know only Tuscany and Piedmont, the Roman Venice, And right now, I mean, your money start to be a fantastic, region to visit for the food, for the cars, for, for the fast cars, because you mentioned Ferrari. So we are very close only for three miles, to Maranello. So we know very well. Yes. I remember one day walking, you know, one of the path that that leads to the resort, and I could hear the ferraris. On the test track. And I was like, wow. All these years, I had not heard that. Yes. And that's and I will say as, you know, someone who travels there frequently that before I didn't see as many American tourists in that region, because usually, as you had mentioned, Rome, Venice, you know, Florence. And those are places now I avoid because of over tourism. But, you know, for me, I wanted things off the beaten path, but I've noticed that people have discovered that region, which is great because There's just so much to see in central Italy, and that's why that's great. Now, of course, you've mentioned Balsamic vinegar. So, for the listener is very well known for Lambrusco. It has of the resort that I mentioned that I stay in frequently because I just love the view and the staff. But then the balsamic vinegar that you have, like, your a Chittaya, can you tell us about how you had entered into balsamic vinegar in that world? Yeah. Of course, moderna is a famous for, it's traditional balsamic vinegar, and many families like mine have produced it for generations. So we produce vinegar for owner consumption. And it was my great great grandmother who started the first set of barriers just after the second world. And, of course, the tradition pack to my grandfather, to my father, and then to me. And, we produce the traditional vinegar of Moderna. So means it's, it's very different from the balsamic vinegar you find the supermarket, and the traditional vinegar, it's, it's made with just one ingredient, cooked grape juice. And, we wait at least twelve years and not twelve hours. It's like the the industrial product for become the traditional vinegar model. Yes. And that's one of the highlights of the resort because I remember walking to the rooms and then he can always even have that aroma. And, of course, the special events that, you know, I've attended many events that have centered around the Chittaya and such and its traditions. Now as American tourists probably don't know more about balsamic vinegar. So when people come to visit, what's probably the main thing that you say about because you I know you mentioned how this yours is, and, of course, because it's a family tradition. It's very different from the industrial ones that are, of course, sold in the supermarkets. So what do you usually say to them to highlight how special your balsamic vinegar is? Be careful because It's not the only balsamic vinegar in Emilia in Romania. We use, only the traditional vinegar. And, it's very complex flavors because, the set is composed of five, six barrels of, different kind of woods. And so at the end, the flavors is, really complex and deep. And, just a few drops on the top of, for example, in on the parmesan cheese, it's, it's amazing for understanding the the the traditional vinegar. And the industrial product, unfortunately, is is industrial product, and, they can use, what can I say? Very chemical product, and they take out water with machine And so in a couple of hours, they produce, the balsamic vinegar. And, it's flat. I can't recognize the flavors of the from the wood. And so this is, for me, And, of course, we teach them to understand the the real flavors about the traditional vinegar. So from the barriers, the tourists, they can, smell directed to the the small barrel about this, really special flavor? Yes. I would agree because that's knowing the authentic side of Italy because as I've mentioned before, especially flocking to Rome, Florence, and Venice, There's this other side of Italy that exists, and of course, you know, talking about Cichilia, you know, most people probably don't even know about Stromboli, but if they're visiting your area, it's why it's so important to know about the traditions. And you know, as we've mentioned, like the gastronomic powerhouse that exists because what's usually marketed here is, like you've mentioned, the industrial part, but they really it's important for tourists to know these traditions. And that's what makes visiting all of the different Italian winemakers, and, of course, these different cantinee, they add Chatai. Everything's so important. It's for authenticity, and that's what you provide to people visiting. So again about the American market because I know that you've been to America a few times. And so when we talk about Yolambrusco and of course, I mean, it can be found in Italy and I'm sure in other parts of Europe, So what are your goals for the American market with Lambrusco? I started in, maybe more than, ten years. Maybe, yeah, thirteen years in New York City. Thanks to my older winemaker, like a teacher. It's, quite famous for the, very famous, tuscany wine. It's, Luca Ratoma, so he's quite famous here in Italy. And thanks to him, I met the journalist, and the first of my buyer. And, and so I start to United States, many years ago. Of course, we've, a small quantity, but right now I'm very happy because the market, understand the this new concept And, of course, this concept and different price, because, of course, in Malambruzco, it's not so cheap. It's not expensive like Marolla, but in the world of San Francisco, it's just a little bit, expensive. And, may recognize the the characteristic, the real characteristic of from Brusco. And so thanks to United States. Thanks to New York. I start this fantastic, opportunity in this market. And, right now, I told you before, it's our main market. We sell more than, forty thousand, right now, only in New York. And, in the main city, in, in the states. So LA, Austin, in Boston. And, of course, the fantastic, I think the goal is, it's not so expensive wine because, in the restaurants, you can find our Lambrusco around, forty five, fifty dollars right now. And so you can, you can enjoy the dinner and the dishes with, a good, and organic, Nebraska, and enjoy the night because, of course, the Lambrusco is not the principle object, is, is a fantastic way to enjoy the night with, friends with someone, you can want to stay. And of course, like, I told you before, Lambrusco is parking red. And so from the beginning to the end, you you can enjoy the Namrosco. Oh, yes. And it's, like, one of my favorite wines because, again, as I've mentioned before, it's one of the the easier to drink. Of course, the price point is great. And that's the thing of as an American, it's interesting how as you mentioned, like, Lambrusco, the reputation has changed, because I can tell you from, you know, I mean, I know. I know. I know. I know exactly. I know. And so this is the point because I start this project because, I know in the past numbers could have a bad reputation And so it's not correct because, of course, there are many not many, but farms like me, they promote the high quality of Lumbusco. And so you can have in the market, the very cheap lumpur in the industrial philosophy and the high quality lumpur. Yes. And that's the goal is to the high quality part. And as I've always said about, you know, because since I'm an educator and few senses for school and then with wine, I think it's always, especially with Italian wine, it's the educating consumers about all of the possibilities out there. Because anyone around my age, not to give that away, early forties, we would have known the older version, the very super syrupy sweet, very light and fun, you know, found at the bottom shelf on at the supermarket. But then it's then the exposure to, of course, like, your winemaking and then some of the other smaller producers trying to elevate that reputation. I see. And that's the Italian wine industry in general. It's all about because people will know as some, you know, going to restaurants, the three b's, of course, but not all Italian wine is that, and that's was the goal of being an educator is trying to expose other people to, you know, all of the different grape varieties. So then when you think about, and then even its future in in Italy itself, like what do you envision? Because, of course, in two thousand two, you had envisioned, you know, producing Lambrusco, of course, your wine resort, and then the balsamic vinegar. So what do you think about the future for Obraseto do we? We just start to open a opera twenty five in New York City. Oh, okay. I'm on a plane. For the future of opera zero two, we have four more rooms. Because in the agreed to reasonable rules, we can, have a maximum twelve rooms. So we have only eight. And so in the next January, we opened the new four rooms in the resort, and The new project for the wine for Lambrusco is for me is really, really new project. And the next week, I will go in New York City to show to my distributors. It's, Lambrusco, the premium, Lambrusco, in a camp. And this is very strange because, the bad reputation starting in a Lambrusco camp. But at the same time, I want to change, this concept. And so I want to fill the can with a premium, Lamrosco. And, of course, the can is, one hundred percent, recycle aluminum. So it's not heavy, like, the bottle of the wine. And so for me, and I'm very close to the nature and to the new organic, new philosophy. And so I want to change this, concept about the lambroosting the camp. And so I want to put my Lambrusco in a can. Very interesting. I think I've seen this concept, I think even with, like, aperol with the spritz, like a spritz being available in a can. And I think, especially with younger generations, there's that different vibe of the can that makes it accessible. So that's really interesting. That's very interesting. See, now as well Because, of course, when I visited, over the many years, I've also attended so many different types of events that I found very interesting because I would notice people would come from all over the region. And, of course, you know, I remember one time being there after my little hospital stay that I had a few years ago, that there were even, like, the doctors from Vajevada had come to open a city away for an event. So can you tell us about some of the special events that take place at Of course, in in opera, we have a different, type of events. Our customer are, from Ferrari and from Lamborghini from, Margherati and ducati. So all the motor valet from motor valet. Unfortunately, we have a different, very special and very VIP person comes in, in our place. Ferrari owners. So it's a fantastic place to enjoy and meet, very different people. Yes. Because I remember when I was there, the last time, I think there was a maserati dinner and then last summer. So it would have been a few months before. I remember coming to the resort and being dropped up by Claudio and noticing, like, there were probably fifteen FedEx cars and parked in front. So that's what I always think of. I think of, like you said, ducati Lamborghini, like traditional Amelia romagna experience, there with food, wine, and, of course, just the experience and the views. Now we do have a question about who your importer is in New York. So can you share that? In New York, I have a per wine, and Eric Clement is the owner. Fantastic guys, we have the same age, more or less. He is younger than me two, three years. And the regal, I have two importers, two distributors. Okay. That's good to know. In New York. Perfect. And, of course, eventually, maybe it'll make its way to Florida. Who knows? Miami could be your next city to focus on. Just kidding. But Unfortunately, not not yet. Okay. And then we have another question about with the can, like, who would be Mhmm. Which company would you be working with for the can? I use, Milam Rusco, and I use a very small don't remember exactly the name. It's canning Italy, and so they're bottling by canning. I don't know exactly in the in the English in the name exactly. Okay. And then would they go through the same importer? I hope too. It's next week. I go there for present the the new project. Okay. So two b to to determine John. That was a question from John, whom I know from. Also, one of the events from the Italian Warren world. And we have another commenter who had really loves the idea of the can. So I think this is something really new and interesting for Lambrusco. So, of course, we all wish you great luck. It's quite strong, but for me, it's really interesting. And, I want to start very soon. Perfect. And so then, overall, because, of course, we've talked about all the different aspects of your region. So the takeaway of Emilia Romagna itself, because, you know, what's interesting is my connection to Amelia Romagna was simply because I had visited the Ferrari Museum because, of course, I love everything Italian brands. And then I was sent to your wine resort as a recommendations. And then from there, that's when I started to explore more of the region. And got to know it very well, including the hospital system, as we know. But usually for someone like myself, of course, I was always sticking to Sichilia and then Campania for personal, connections. So if you were to speak to an American or another, like, maybe from a tourist from another part of Europe to say why Amelia romagna, what would you say, like, is why people should come to your region? For me, Emilia Romania means, a million people. So a million people makes Emilia Romani so special. You know, Vatura, no. The the trade is kidney chef. The crazy. And so we enjoy the life. We start drinking in Brazco at five years old with our grandparents, and continuous, our war lives. And so and the de cuisine and the wine for me give us the energy and the inspiration. And so we we create the Ferrari and maserati cars. And so the middle mania, it's very right now, it's very famous for fast cars and slow food. And so for me, it's, so special for for the people because we enjoy the live a lot. Oh, yes. And I think that's part of my initial. Lambrutco is so friendly wine. And so we have a lot of parties, and so we drink a lot of Yes. And I think that's what the appeal is overall, you know, because Amelia Romagna is different, but yet so popular for all of the different aspects. And, you know, of course, I'm very partial to Cichile and Compania, but for me, I could even eventually see because like staying in Amelia Romagna for longer terms because of all of the things that you had just mentioned. And then Hugh, one of our listeners, he was even saying, because this is what I was thinking about when you were talking about the can is that it will appeal to older millennial. I'm an elder millennial, I think, as you are as well, but it would appeal to millennials in general and then the next generation with gen z. Yeah. And to get it here before Wednesday. So Yeah. Do we have any other questions for Matilla, our wonderful guest? Because I think he told us everything about Amelia romagna, his wines, balsamic vinegar, the appeal of Lambrusco, because I always look forward to Lambrusco, go. I'll be there in April again. So I'll be able to have it more. And then John is asking about so for your I assume John, this has to deal with the vineyards itself. Because I know you talked about, like, well, of course, on the time they say, b o, but, like, the organic, like, so it's you have the organic and then sustainable farming. Is that true? He yes. It's, it's twenty years. I work in, organic, farming. And, also, last year, I complete the project. And so for the for the panel, solar panel, And so I'm totally independent from the energy for because I'm very close to the the green, system. Oh, yes. That's right. I did notice that with the solar panels. Yeah. Very interesting. So, yes, the future for Oprahara is very bright. Yeah. Of course. And of course to everyone else. So if we do we have any other questions? Because again, thank you so much for sharing everything about Oprahara. Today. We look forward to learning more in the future about your wines and of course tasting the amazing food and exploring more of Amelia romagna. So if you guys are good, I think this is a wrap, actually. It was a very interesting and lovely conversation. Very fun. Love the ideas. See a lot of innovating projects coming up next with a lot of appeal and interest. So I really wish you the best, Matthew. It's been incredible getting to know about your winery and your reality and your project today. So I'm very much glad. Thank you, Julie, for bringing him with us today. Of course. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Listen to the Italian wine podcast, wherever you get your podcast. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianline podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, product and publication costs. Until next time.