Ep. 744 Andrea Eby Interviews Patrick Uccelli | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay. Hello, everybody. My name's Stevie Kim, and this is Italian wine club on Clubhouse today. It's been kind of a crazy day or honey. I almost didn't make it, but I knew Joy and and Laika, they were both on standby. Because we had I'm kind of a marathon. I've been I've been in this podcast booth since I I guess half past one today. So it's it's been a long, long recording day, but very, very happy to be here today because This is the ambassador's corner. Today, we'll be the fireside chat with Patrick Ucelli, very, very excited to just relax, grab my wine, and listen to you guys. Of course, this is it's all about an Ambassador Italian wine Ambassador. In our case, today's Andrea Abito Andrea. Charles Stevy. So Andrea is from California. Oh my god. I'm so jealous. I'm just reading that you had a distinction from your W Set diploma program, and I cannot believe that. I I've barely just started. And She was awarded the Provine scholarship in recognition of her academic achievements in two thousand seventeen. She's, of course, she leads the, Italian scholar Gail specializing in Italy, as well as the Italian wine Ambassador from the Italy International Academy. Andrew, I won't be asking you any questions today because I can't hear you. I don't know what is going on. No worries, indeed. And she's a Psalm instructor with Canadian Association Professional Professional. So I'm just going to have you take away. Maybe, Andrea, before you start, would you mind just telling us why you've chosen Patrick Uceli as your favorite wine producer and of course the learning objectives. Sure. Hi, everybody. Thanks for the introduction, Stevy. Yes. So why did I choose Patrick? So they asked me, you know, choose a favorite producer, and I'm pretty sure I could never choose one favorite producer, but I appreciate many different producers for many different reasons. And I chose Patrick for this interview because I felt that he could really bring an interesting perspective to this discussion and probably introduce our listeners to his unique philosophy and some of the innovations that he's implementing in his vineyards and, in his whole sort of farm that he is developing. And and growing in Alto Adi Jay. So, that's a lot of the reasons that, that I chose to to chat with Patrick today. I'm hoping by the time the the interview is over that everybody will have maybe, A better idea of what, pee wee grape varieties are, maybe something that's new to some people. Also, to have an understanding of, the Viticulture and cultural challenges facing Alto Adi Jay in the face climate change and trying to implement more sustainable practices. Also Patrick has a very unique approach to labeling his wines that I'd love everybody to to learn about. And Yeah. Just, kind of be aware of some of the new projects that, that Patrick is working on in, in his in his winery. And then, you know, one of the questions I was asked is, how did I discover the wines of, Dornoch and, in my kind of former role as a buyer for a wine store here in Canada, I used to work closely with CLASSka International, which is an Italian based distribution company that really specializes in, sustainably produced wines. And, their European rep had so much respect and passion for Patrick's approach that I agreed finally to taste the wines, and, I was hooked at that point too. Just not only on the wines themselves, but just on Patrick's whole philosophy and approach to Tibetan culture. So I'll tell you a little bit about Patrick and then I'll start writing on the questions. So Patrickricelli was born in Bolzano in nineteen seventy four. He grew up in the city, but, left the city for good in nineteen ninety five. And in doing so left behind, his studies, in in in medicine, which he didn't he didn't finish, but he started and also philosophy that he studied in in Austria as well. He really discovered his love for wine around the year two thousand and He, since then, has devoted himself to studying analogy and Viticulture. He achieved, two degrees, one in Italy, and one in Geisenheim in Germany, and started his journey into the world of wine. He has, worked in Trentino, Germany, Alto Adi Jay, Sicily, Tunisia, Tunisia, and then went back to the small family business in Salorno in Alto Adi. And since two thousand and eight, he's been producing wines in the company, which he, together with his family, have been developing from year to year, according to the guidelines of Biodynamic farming. So, Patrick, maybe you could explain to everybody kind of what inspired you to sort of shift gears in your life and, you know, move from studying medicine and philosophy to this world of wine. Hi. Hello. Hello to all. Thank you very much for this invitation. I'm really happy. I'm a little bit excited because, English, it's not some of my mother language, but, hopefully, we will manage it, in a in a good way. So what has inspired me, I am? I think there is a a a lot of answers in one answer. I think in in first, one of of, yes, one of the thing that that inspire me or, yeah, it gets hand in hand. It's just a way to observe my reality. The reality that surrounds me. Okay. And, of course, I think my philosophy studies, they helps me to to to, ask myself why or why things are going in this way or why the reality is is like this. Okay? And, to to find some answers in in in in real life or that to for me to find some answers to to this kind of questions was, there was only in the nature. You can find this kind or I was able to find some kinds of answers on these questions only in the nature. And so, the only thing or the the the the that's what that was the way back to the to the earth. You know? That's, because you can observe some, yeah, how to to to say it properly. You will I'm able when I'm when I'm in the field, when I'm out in the nature, or when I'm out in the vineyard. I can observe some some things that are happen. Okay? And there are some, rules that you can observe. And that helps me to understand the reality in that I live. You know, I don't know if it's clear enough. Okay? But that's the approach. Okay. So did you did you always from sort of the beginning of your business? Did you start implementing biodynamic practices right away, or was it a conversion? No. It was it was, when I've started the the this business, it was two thousand and eight. The vineyards and the estate, it's it's quite older. Okay? It's, because that it's mentioned it for the first time in twelve eighty eight. So we are talking about eight hundred years ago. But when I've started to meet to meet my own business, I have some notice about Rudsteiner and I notice about about who, some things are connected in our reality. And so the only way to to get into agriculture was by by following the biodynamic rules, but I have to say the truth for us or for me, especially for me, it's not like a bible. Okay? There They are really inspiring, ideas and and inputs in biodynamic farming, but I don't want to to follow. Blindless. Okay? That's that's for me. It's important to to to to say it loud and clear. Okay. So what are some of the biggest challenges that you see kind of facing sustainable agriculture, viticulture in Alto AdiJ? So, especially in Alto AdiJ, I think there is a climate questions. So we have more than one thousand, one thousand, leaders, rainfall during the year. And you have to consider that, the mostly part, it's coming your vegetative, fast. That means that, we have to be really careful with with the defense or, with, yeah, when we have to take care against fungus disease. Okay? We have peron, we have some obedience, some milieu. Okay. And so we have to take care of that in a really, focused way. Okay. There is no no errors allowed because otherwise, you don't want to get any grapes. And so that's with that's what's the first one. Okay. Yeah. Another point could be the the mentality. Okay. Because we have we have, really we have good prices for wine grapes. We have good prices for for wine here in Alto Adije. That means the people, they have success also in a economical way. Okay? And when you have success in a economical way, the way of thinking, it's not easy to to, rebuild. I don't know. It's of it. It's if it's the right work to describe the the process. But the people say, yeah, we are successful. Why do we have to change? Okay. So there's a a reluctance to change because things seem to be working the way they are. So why would you disrupt that? That's exactly the point. Okay? Okay. Because when you when you are successful, why you have to change. Right. Yeah. And so but you see it's successful right now, but you you have the sort of foresight to see that it's not a long term success in terms of, you know, we're competing against climate change and we have to adapt to those sort of things. So Yeah. We we we we think that's the point. And, yeah, we think that's the point, or we know that's the point. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we we are, really intern. Yeah. Our we are really, noisiyama, or or we have a deep, we are deeply, Committed, Sue. Committed that the agriculture also in this case, Viticulture must catch CO2. We we we we we have be a part of the solution of the problem and not a part of the problem. Right. I don't know. Yeah. Yep. No. And and that that's that would that must be changed in in in in that that it's the point that must change agriculture. In this case, Viticulture must be a part of the solution to the c o two problem. And do you have do you have it as even a small group of producers that are working together in in your region, or is it fairly fragmented? There is okay. We are a small group. It could be it depends on which on which, there is a small group. But as a lot of Viticulture, Viticulturists or producer, every producer has a strong character. And so, we can see it. Not everyone thing together, you know, because we are really, really there are some, big egos. So Me too. So so we have to say the truth. So maybe I'm not so so, open for for but I think it's just a question of time. It it it takes time because everyone, it's still discovering what what's going on. And after this process, I think we will we will ready for a new sociality and, you know, but but in this process, we are really fixed on on ourselves to to check what's going on, what can be, what what can we What can we do for all the things for for Catch CO2 to get sustainable, more sustainability, and so on and so on. So in this moment, I think everyone, it's really focused on his own. Okay? But in a couple of years, I'm sure that that we could be, a great team. Yeah? Okay. So what are some of the things that you are doing, on your farm to to combat c o two. And I I speak of a farm because it's not just a monoculture where you are. You're not just growing grapes. You are growing other things. So could you tell listeners a little bit more about that kind of holistic approach to farming that you have? Mhmm. Yeah. That's and and that's, that's the point. Yes. We are we are talking about farming and not only Viticulture. That could be the first, not the key, but the first step. To a deeper understanding of what we are doing here. Okay? We are improving our estate, and we think our estate as something, organic. That means you need more and more different, organs. Okay? And so we don't develop only, the plants, but we develop bring also, the animals. Okay. And that helps us to to to to increase, the organic so stanza, the organic substance, or can I say organic? Uh-huh. Yep. Okay. So so stanza, Bianika. And And so we try to to organize our farm in this in this way. So we have it depends on on on the seasons. We have between ten and twenty five sheeps here in the farm. Four, five, goats. We have a cow, a cow. Okay. Of course. We have some pigs. We have chickens. We have rabbits. Okay. We have some donkeys because it's fun, and it helps our spirit to develop because all the relation, all the types of relationships that you can, improve that helps to improve your spirit. I don't know if it's clear enough what we are doing here. And there are more I think I understand. Yeah. Yeah. They are all necessary for our developing, but not only in terms of organic substances or a CO2, to catching CO2, but also, and that's also, one of the most important point to develop our self, you know, that's that also, a key to understand our work here. We do all these things for the environment for to catch CO2 to to increase, organic substances, but we do in also to increase our self Okay. To to sort of grow yourselves and to, Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So in the in the vineyards, you are, experimenting and using some pee wee grape varieties. Mhmm. Could you explain what pee wee's are? Yes. I tried to do it really fast. Creek, quick and fast. Okay. Bibi, it's the acronym for, a really hard German word bills Wiederstand's fager apes. That means there are grape varieties that would be, resistant against fungus disease. Okay. And especially in this case, We are talking about peronosporia and and Ovidio. Okay? They are the the the two biggest disease that we have here in in Europe. Okay? Mhmm. And for these two disease, when you work organic, it's necessary to treat the wines with copper and sulfur. Right. Just to just to let you understand, when you have pinot noir or pinot blanc or or another classic variety, we have to cover them because organic works with to covering the plant and not and not from the inside. Right? We cover the plant with copper or sulfur or gold, against this fungus Okay? And then we have to do it here in Alto AviJ. We have we do it between seven, eight, and fourteen, fifteen times. Okay. It depends on the season and how much it's raining and so on. So on. With PV varieties, they are breeded in field. And that's that's a point that we have to to to to give attention in the future. They are breeded in in field. That means that that someone is, breeding some, Asian or American, VITis genre with, with VITis Vineifera genre. Okay. They put the salmon, it mean the seed. Okay. They they they impoly impoly impolynation. Well, impoly impolynates. Exactly. Yeah. They pollinate. They pollinate. They pollinate. Exactly. Some wild Let me say in this way, wild VITis genre with the the the the the classy with the VITis Minifera. And that's why we we will, try to get the the resistance character because, the wild fetus generally are basically resistant against this fungus disease, but also the characters of the wild grapes of the domestic Vetties, the VITis vinifera, merlot, or riesling, whatever. Okay? So they pollinate the the the wild with the with the domestic Vinifera. So they started. So more or less, the first, the first the first works started one hundred years ago, but the really serious works, it's it's fifteen, sixteen years ago. Okay? Okay. So now we have the the yeah. The first generation of PV, and it there are still going on because you are still pollinating you are still pollinating. Yep. Okay. The the varieties and so the varieties are still going on. And so we have the two point zero and so on and so on. So we have now, thirty, forty, fifty, different varieties, and they don't need also that the the example of Subinigli or, Lajo or the the this this or pre or this this varieties that we have planted here. They don't need or only in the in the hardest year, they get one or two sulfur treatments. Otherwise, I don't I I make zero zero treatments, and that's really interesting. Yeah. So, I mean, because it's not just the fact that you're not spraying with copper and sulfur, but it's also less water being put onto the vineyards, less compaction through the tractors, so less CO2 emissions. So it's not just the initial treatment. There's lots of impacts kind of down down the line. Yeah. And so do you find that the the more recent, kind of generations of the P. W. Grapes are are the flavors getting kind of closer to what many people would consider sort of traditional wine flavors? Because that's one of the I think some consumers are reluctant to embrace pee wee varieties because they maybe taste different or they think they're going to taste quite different than? It also, in fact, as as every new variety or every new variety that you have tasted, that's it's a new flavor, of course. So, so that's that's the first impact. Okay? But I think when we talk about, reluctance, I think it's more mentality. Yeah. It's just mentality because that gives you, a sort of When you when you okay. And you know how more or less has to taste or and so and you feel at home. When you have to reconsider flavors or your impression. And so and the the classy wine lover, I think it's not so open as he is seeing himself. I don't know if if it's Okay. He said, I'm open for new wines. I'm looking for new wines. When they have new wines in the glass, so they are not so open as they've changed. Okay? Yeah. And I think it it could be something for the new generation because they would be, I think, more interested in system able, in sustainability. Yeah. That's in, because they can reconsider the flavor because the wines are in fact the wines are good. Yes. Yeah. They're not coming to the table with all these preconceived notions. Exactly. There are no foxy tones, no way. Okay. They are they are really good. Yeah. But but something that's going on in the head of the wild lovers. Okay. Right. Because if I if I do a blind tasting here in in in the estate, I can I can read it in the face? They they they like the wine. But when I discover and I explained him that they are drinking pee wee now, I see some doubts are starting in in in his face. And when when they when they, not all. A lot of people, they are really open and say, okay, I buy this one because it's good. And that's enough. Right. But the the the the wine lover who is who is saying I'm, I'm an expert The experts, they they have more difficulty to get to open, in in this way, to get opened in this way. Okay. So they they took the pin on wire because it's it's comfortable. That yeah. That it's comfortable. Yeah. That's the point. Thank you very much. So so which which great varieties are you working with right now? You have pinot noir. You have the Oh, we have the classy. Okay. We have pinot noir. Pinot grip. Pinot, chardonnay, Gewirtz Sturmina, and manzoni Bianco, or encroach from manzoni. That's a it's a great between pinot Blo and Ryno Hiesling. Great. As done, Yeah. That's the the the the witness we need for our varieties. And then we we we have PVs, like bronner, Sololis, Cabo, souvenir, Priyar, Regant carbonicortis carbonicanto. We have a lot. We have white, white, and red, and we produce three different wine. We do a white, a red, and an orange. Okay. And are you planning on what is kind of the split in the vineyards between the the PEEs and the traditional great varieties in terms of acreage or hectares devoted to each? So the we Yeah. At the moment, because our we have a smaller state, or there it's not so small for alto alijay rules, but it's more for the rest of the world. Okay? So we work seven hectares, and we have more than one hectares with PV. Okay. And and from from two thousand thirteen, all the the new vignettes that we have planned was there was PV. Okay. So you definitely committed Pee's and moving in that direction. I I think it yeah. It's it's my wife, Carolina said it's, it's the future. And I will I will try to say it a little bit more as a PV, it's it's really stummento, stummento, it's, yeah, it's something that could help us for, really, for a really, really sustainable, with culture. Okay? I don't know if it's the future because it's not easy to define what's what's the future, you know? But but it it could be a good, a good thing for a good future that that's that's for sure. At least a a component perhaps of the future, something that's Yeah. He's gonna play a role in the future of it. Can you so you have a very interesting I'll call it interesting, approach to labeling your your wines. Maybe you can explain a little bit about how you've chosen to label them, and then we can kinda talk about how the market has reacted to you to those labels. I think your labels your labels are really, to me, a real testament to just your commitment to your approach and to your philosophy because it would be much easier to label your wines a different way, but you really committed to this. So I think, people will be interested in in what it is. Yeah. So a a good friend of mine, they they they ask me one day, so Patrick, in a word that where everyone try to get to get to the customer, to to to let them an easy life. Oh, to to to to not to to, yeah, to to to be easy to understand. You have you you made, a step in, in, in the opposite direction. And and they say, okay. You are you're it's true. It's true. Yeah. Our labels, they have two different, two different informations. Okay? We have, a graphic part Okay? The there could be some color red dots or some historical catastrophe maps or some color red watermarks. So this elements shows you gives you the information of what's inside the bottle, okay, which wine type. Okay. The graphic shows you which kind which wine type, which wine profile is in the bottle. Okay? Okay. And then you will recognize on the label. Yeah. A big number. Okay. And the number, it's some it's it's the progressing of the bubbling. Ryan Fulgen or the the order in which the wines were produced. Were were produced or were produced? Buddled. Buddled. Yeah. Exactly. We started with this new idea of labeling two thousand nineteen. Okay. So the first line that we have bottle two thousand nineteen, they get his graphic part, and then he gets the number one. The second one that we have bottle, the number two, number three, So until two thousand twenty one, we are arrived to, up to twenty six. And next year, we will move on to twenty seven, twenty eight. So in fact, there is a lot of Maisons also in the Champagne. You have to come think jack Jackson is also numbering the cubase and so on. So it's nothing it's nothing new. Okay? No. But the idea was to give to sotto linear to an underline Great. Could we say on the line? Okay. The idea that wine, it's a cultural product, of course. But it's also a, an agricultural product. And for me, it's, it's, it's, it's more important, the agricultural value of wines. And if if there is, the thing that will characterize, characterize some the agricultural product is that it's unique or it's, you know, the unicity. And the the the fact that you can repeat it. And so in fact, when you have drink wine number seven, it's over, and there it's there will be never be a a wine like seven or twenty five or two hundred. When it's done, it's done. And it's just to underline this idea of, of, of, unicity of the agriculture product because log logistic. So the the logistic and the trade allows you to to get some, tomatoes or cucumbers or whatever every time in your supermarket, but it's unreal. Who is growing tomatoes knows that you have just two months, maybe three months. So here, in order to add it to two months with tomatoes, then it's over. Right. So okay. And it's just to to to to let the people think about that. Okay. That's that's the idea behind to to to to try to connect to people to to the unicity, to the sa to season season. Yeah. To the the seasonality of the of the of the product. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So do you do you put the vintage on there as well or just the number of the volume? Yeah. In front, you will find this both information about the line profile and the number. And behind on the back label, you're because it's the legal label. Right. I have to put the the variety and also the vintage, of course. Okay. So you were talking about, like, the kind of the pictorial aspect of the graphic aspect. So with the P. V. Great varieties, for instance, they would have is it the dot for the P. W. Or it's the more the watermark? No. For the P. V. It's the watermark. Yeah. The watermark. And the dot are for the Van Swat. The VIN spot? In the city. Yeah. See. And then the the map are the more the historical, the older vineyards. Is that There are for for, the selection. There are wine. There are things for aging. You can put it in your cellar and and then you can took it out after a couple of years. So it's more sort of a style. Okay. So I'm I'm sure there are some, sommeliers, etcetera, that, are cursing your name as they're trying to figure out how to writes your your wines in their wine list. It keeps it entertaining. Yeah. So can you tell us a little bit about your kind of wine making philosophy, what your approach is in the cellar? Oh, okay. In the seller, it's it's it's really easy. Okay. There is yeah. Now we prefer, oh, I will say it in this way. We, we use less technology, but a lot of technique. Yes. So we have, a lot of different winemaking techniques. Okay? Okay. And and that starts with, in the vineyards when we choose to to to to pick the grapes with different maturities with a different scale of maturity. Okay. Okay. We start with a little bit some fresher maturity than with a middle maturity or with a late maturity. Okay? And then we bring, in the cellar, the grapes, we crash it, or we press it, or whatever. It depends. So we were we we've made white or red. We don't use any, surface. We we don't use, selected east. We don't make any finding or clarification. If it's really necessary, we will filter the wire Otherwise, we don't filter the wine. It depends on the cloudness on the cloud. Yeah. How much cloudy, yeah, on the cloudiness of the wines, and we put a little bit of sulfites just, before the filling. Okay. So it's a it's a really conservative. How you know, I think it's a really we say in Italian non interventionist approach. Not interventionist. Yeah. Yes. Because otherwise, it doesn't make sense all the work outside. Right. Yeah. When when when we change the the the when we change the structure, when we change the matrix of the wines, in the cellar, it doesn't make sense to to all the approach outside in the in the vineyards of the field. So for for us, it's it's it's the, Philadelphia, the red, Yeah. The right philosophy. It's a continuation of that. Yeah. It's a continuation of that we are doing outside. We're doing we're doing also in the cellar, of course. Exactly. Can you I wanna give a few minutes to have everybody learn about your kind of new project that you're working on. I've been, watching the progress of the new seller being built on Instagram. So if anybody wants to check that out, Patrick's always updating kind of the next development in the in the new seller that they're constructing. So Can you tell us a little bit about why you decided to to do that project? And something to do with because you were also going to be having some food and wine kind of activities there eventually. So you wanna Yeah. Yes. We are we are, yes, we are building our new seller. And that's in in in first because the old seller yeah. It's easy. It's not my property. So it's my own, and and I'm near to fifty. I think it's no more, hobby. I think now I can say, I'm a professional, and so I have to start to to to to do it in a in a professional way. Okay? And so we have decided to to build our own seller, on our place. And and when we have think about the seller, it was clear that we will not only produce wine because we are we are, deeply convinced that, a farm or an estate like our it must be, not only, a, a place of, of where you grow, so of cultivation, but it must be also a place of culture. Okay? So that, can you recognize the difference? Okay. And so we will we we will, have a place called Busch and Shank in Altoology. It means like agriturismo, but not where you can sleep, only where you can eat. Okay? And that we'll we will open it, two times during the season in the spring and in fall. And, of course, a shop, but with a with a nice, with a nice balcony with a nice place where the people can also, stay chilled and drink a glass of wine. Okay? So we have this different sit situation. And also, a place, where if someone would would offer I don't know, some yoga, hours or, a nice moment of, of, like, a seminar, you know, meditation, whatever. Yeah. That's that's that's the point. Some the farm, I have has to be a a point where where culture grows, you know. Okay. So when do you plan to have, the new cell completed? So, yeah, that's that's yeah. In the in the in the Global supply. In a globally chain supply, there is oh, there we we see a lot of, delays and the prices are going up in a in a really hard way. But Yeah. If we are really lucky and if if we are, and everything goes well, we will open the new seller and and made a new vintage in the new seller two thousand twenty two. And if we are really able, we will open the the shop and the balcony and the Paris, in July two thousand and twenty two. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. And then and then and then let's see. Then it takes a little bit more for the Buschochang, for the Agriturismo. I think it because we have also we have really we have three little little child kids. Sorry. Children. Yeah. Three three children. Yeah. The the the big one, the the the older one, it's, five and a half. The middle one, it's three and a half. And the and the little, it's one and a half. So we have to breathe a little bit. Yes. So funny. But we are, yeah, but we are preparing everything. We are we are, yeah, and maybe in two years, two and a half years, we will start also be talking to each month. Okay. So, yes. So by twenty twenty three, the the Via That's good to be. Yeah. We'll be able to go in a Patrick. That's really great. Yeah. So is it is that something that you do see more producers in Alta Adi Jay embracing? Like, the tourism kind of side of things? Yes. They do, but we are also one of this of this, one of a port important part in the tourism. So the the wine, it's an it's an attraction Yes. Yeah. It's an attraction also. So consider that. Alto AdiJ has yeah. Okay. Now we we have to consider COVID situation. Okay. Right. Well, that was my next question. So, yes, you can talk about COVID. Yeah. Yeah. More or less, Adrade has, thirty three millions, they're not it means when people stay for a night here. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So more or less like Venice. Okay. There is a lot of people. Okay. Yes. And so the wine, winery, wine culture, there is a lot of things for wine lovers here. We are really good in that. Okay? Our our, marketing destination marketing, institute, it's reviewed in that. And so a lot of the tourists comes for the wine. And that's why a lot of, wow, the the the bigger one, producer, they are perfectly built for tourists also. And and the little one, like we are, or slowly slowly, trying to to to to to to to to to also to to get an offer for wine tourism because it's important. Mhmm. Yeah. Because it it doesn't make sense. Okay. It's really it's great to have our wines in New York, in London, in in Australia, in Saint Petersburg or Moscow. But the the greatest place where you can where you can drink the wine. It's here where the wines grow. Right. Right. And that's why we will bring we are really happy to bring out the wine But we are also happy when the people comes here and and and and get an idea, get a feeling, can can really touch with his hand where where the things are growing. And who is behind also? Exactly. Yes. No. It definitely makes for a an experience you don't forget and, you're forever sort of emotionally attached to those wines if you've had an opportunity to to drink them where where they come from and to share them with the people that make them. I think it's, certainly an experience that many people, you know, are are hoping to have. So can you tell us a little bit about how COVID has changed your business? Yeah. So in fact, I can say, yeah, it depends on which and on on which level or and which aspect of the business or aspect of the business. Yeah. In terms of economy, I I I we grow, our best year was be before COVID. Okay? It was two thousand and nineteen. Okay. We was able to grow two thousand and twenty. And two thousand twenty one, we will grow really in a good way more than two thousand twenty. Really? So yeah. In a economical way, We don't we don't have, yeah, you maybe you will see it with the order. Okay. During the lockdown, in the last winter, there was no order, of course, because or the restaurants and and so on was closed. And so there was no order. But when they started, it it was it was, well, amazing. A flood of order. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was really amazing. Okay. And and, but I think the mostly of our producer here, nobody said, or or the the the guys Yeah. With a a token, the nobody said, oh, I'm unhappy. Everybody everybody of the guys that I've talked was happy with the season. So Okay. Good. It was a good season for all. Okay? Okay. And so in in terms of economy, I don't I think it it it comes in the next years because all this price, this price, I'll maintain the pretzel. This price, yeah, or the Yeah. The gasoline. The Yes. All the material. All the things are electricity, whatever. They're they are going up. Okay. Yeah. And I think we will see something in the next years. Okay. Because the we call it Capachita de Aquisto. The the the the the yeah. When when you get two thousand dollars in a month, and your fixed costs are are going up to Yes. The the cost of living. The cost of living, the cost of doing business is increasing, but Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the money coming in is not necessarily. So it's, like, you have as a producer, you need to choose, do you charge more for your wine? Can the market? Exactly. Then here, that the here are the the the the the questions the future. Because I have to to to to to now with the with the first of January, I have to to reconsider to to to to to make some, advice Yeah. Price adjustment. Let's see what happens. But I can't I can't do it in in another way. No. No. Exactly. Yeah. That that's the point. You know? You you're kind of After five year, it's now it's time to to make some adjustment. It I I can stay I can stay without. No. It's not sustainable. The sustainability is not just about Viticulture. It's also about business. Right? Exactly. It's also in economical terms. Of course, there that that that is, yeah, It's I agree. Okay. So maybe, like, should I see if anybody has some questions? If anybody has a question you'd like to ask Patrick, you can raise your hand and I can try and bring you up to the stage. I'm not sure if anybody does. I don't see any hands up yet. Just, quickly step in here. Yeah. So, I'm not Stevy. No. You don't sound like Stevy. No. I know. Steve has, has run away for a short moment. She was right back. But, yeah, no, I was going to say with respect to questions, I don't see anybody raising their hand at the moment. But if anybody does have any questions, you can always forward them to info at italian wine podcast dot com Okay. Where you can, also just, message Leica on her her Instagram or the Italian at ito wine podcast, Instagram. Because sometimes people have questions afterwards or they're too shy to speak up while, it's live. So Okay. That's great. Thank you for letting us know. So I will I I have a couple more questions for Patrick anyway, so I can keep asking a few things. And if anybody does have something that they think of, please just raise your hand, and we will we'll bring you up to the stage. So I guess my next question for you, Patrick, is sort of like, what's next for for you and Katarina at the at the at the winery. What is the next project after the seller? Are you just focusing on that? Well, that's a good question. I don't know because At the moment, all the attention are focused to doing doing great wines. Try to to to have really healthy, healthy soils and to to being really focused on the on the new seller. And data man data man areas, you know. And so I think when the the water is water water is will be calm again, then some new project will start because, yeah, that's my nature. So at at the moment, I'm really focused. And I I don't have So I have some things what's going on in my head, but maybe it could be something interesting for you to know that, together with some other producer, we are we are coaching some, people. They are are requesting Okay. Azino Polyico. I don't know. Some immigrants, they are, asking for Azilo politico. Yeah, political asylum. So they're asylum. They're okay. And, the the project, it's a project, finance, by the European community. Okay. And we will try to to to train this, immigrants to be to to get some, coworkers for our, for our yeah, for for vineyard for vineyard to work hard. That's why, we are convinced that it's necessary they they they get the language so they can, learn Italian and German. And and they go to make some stages in our, in our wineries, in our winyards. Yeah. So we that it's a point that we can, work out in the future to be to be social against who has not the same, opportunity in life. And that's what we are doing here that maybe could be interesting of of to It's not a new project, but we can we can work it out or to to to to to to, yeah. So yeah. No. I was gonna say I think it's it's a great topic for people to be aware of because it's something that I think a lot of people you know, really with support such an initiative. So is there somewhere that people can learn more about that project? Or If I'm not yeah. I think, Valerie, Valerie, from she's, writing for For drink? Drink? Exactly. He he exactly. He writes an article, and in in English. And Yeah. That's maybe could be, an interesting article about what's going on here with with this producer. Group and together with this association, Lastrada, and this Vite project. And that could be, a great article to Absolutely. To to to get an idea of what we are doing here in this in this, yeah. So, again, it's it's that sort of holistic approach to sustainability. It's the social aspect. It's yeah. Uh-huh. Because that's social responsibility responsibility. Yeah. We we we because we are lucky on this side of the world. Yes. There is a lot of people that needs a hand. Absolutely. Yeah. And and when we can help them to get the language because they come in Alto Adi. We work. We speak Italian in German. So, we do the the the the the lesson in German and Italian. And so they get the language. They get they get the opportunity to to to come out of the city. Right. Because normally, yeah, in the city, when you get the work, it's good. Otherwise, maybe you will, you know, find yeah. We you will struggle. But If you are on the land, it means outside of the city, there is a totally different people. There's a totally different reality day by day, but maybe they get to get other chances to grow up in life or or you have to to, yeah. To have, yeah, to be to learn some skills and to perhaps a different, path for their lives. Yeah. That's that's the point. Yeah. And that's one. And and the second is, hopefully, we we will, we will be able to get some young people in agriculture, but that could be also a problem. Because there is all the people they wants to get, I don't know, in the city. Yeah. The people wants to be lovers, l lowers. Lawyers lawyers. Lawyers. Or, I don't know, the managers or social media, whether or influencer. I don't know what the but but agriculture do doing agriculture could be really, fulfilling. Right. Right. But it's a challenge to attract people too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's that's why we we we we we will, build a new seller. We will try to bring here the people because we will show that, okay, it's hard work. Because, yeah, it's really it's hard work, but it's a nice hard work. Yes. It's it's a beautiful you have a beautiful place. That's for sure. It's a little a little kind of o oasis, definitely to to visit. And I I should probably close things up very soon because I know Stevie likes to close the room on time. So, maybe I'll wrap up here, but thank you so much, Patrick, for for taking the time to to chat with us. And I know English is not your your first preference for language, but I think you're too hard on yourself. I think you do fantastic. Thank you so much, Patrick. Wonderful. That was a a fantastic, interview. Or I really enjoyed that, and I actually was here for for all of it. I just switched seats. So, yeah, this was Fantastic. It will go up in on the podcast, Italian wine podcast in the next few weeks. And, yeah, I'm going to close the room. Let me just Well, thank you so much for the for the invites. Like, are you there? I don't know if she's there or if she's gonna say anything. She's there somewhere. Yeah. I'm here. Actually, I'm here with you. Do you wanna just, tell us what the next clubhouse is gonna be? Yeah. So it's gonna be Isabella Odero will be interviewed by Amy Azerin. That's gonna be Thursday next week. So we'll chat for that. Okay. Wonderful. Well, everybody have a great evening, and we'll see you guys next time. Okay. Bye, guys. Thank you very much. Smith. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Himalaya FM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. 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