Ep. 320 Tiziana Forni (Dark Star Imports)

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My guest today is Tatiana Fortney. Titiana is New York regional manager at dark star imports in New York City. And DocStar specializes in I was gonna start wars an intergalactic sci fi movie memorabilia, but I'm not gonna say that because that joke has probably been cracked a million times. You're in charge of boutique Italian wine brands. Welcome. I'm Monte. They they usually call me the dark lady because of dark star. Yeah. Sometimes it happens, you know, dark star dark lady. Which I discovered a dark star is a title of a song, but I'm not expert amusing. So that's it. Okay. So Tatiana, you were born in Staffalo, which is in, near the port of Ancona on Italy adriatic coat? I I'm born in Encona, actually. How are you born in Encona? Okay. So why living in probably Italy's most renowned white wine region, the Vodacuric Estelidierzi region, even you're in the classical zone there. Why did you end up in New York, or how did you end up in New York? Did your family have a vineyard and you didn't wanna be part of that? Or or what was the story? No. No. My family is, is totally disconnected from, wines, totally different trade. So I started in the wine in Encona in two thousand free with one merchants. And then I started to study wine, attending wine courses. I worked in, I worked for one producer as a for manager. I work in restaurants. And then in twenty fourteen, I had a great opportunity from a one importer based in New York. And, I decided to make this big change from Ancona to which is, even if it's the main city in market, it's still a small it's a town properly. And, I made this big change to the big apple. You you work quite internationally because you'll if I remember, If I've got it correct, your dissertation at university, it wasn't on wine, excuse me, but your your dissertation was on, the World Tradeen trade organization and international trade. So you obviously had a very internationalist Yes. Look. Right? Yeah. Right. Because I really, since the very beginning, at the time of high school, I I love to, to study, foreign languages. So I I mean, I used to speak a pretty good German. And now in this lockdown, I'm, you know, I'm studying back, and, I started to study Spanish because it's fun for an Italian. That's why. I mean, I I always love, you know, to have international relationship. How much of a shock was it when you actually arrived in America and and New York in particular? I it was, like, a love at first sight. So I I I wasn't really shocked. Even if, I don't know if it's me because, for example, I also work in in that, you know, how small it is, and I was not even shocked there. I believe that, if you do something that you like, it doesn't it's not for me, it's not really important of what you have around. You need to love what you do. So your job, you have a lot of responsibility, at Docstone. You have an amazing lineup of wines. Just give us some idea. When you go out selling or or promoting or marketing, maybe we can even talk about some of the brands you deal with it as if the case studies, you know, how does it work? How do you deal? What's a typical day? So my role primarily is based the in, having relationship with the distributor because dark star is an importer. So as you know, importer in United States, they can only import import wines, but, if they don't have, distributor license, they can sell only to distributor. So, I, you know, I have I am in charge of free markets, which is a New York, primarily the five networks, and that there was chester area, which is, like, right north to New York City, Connecticut and New Jersey. So very different markets. A totally different market. And, I started with dark star last June. And, the main role for me was to, to have to to reinforce to improve the relationship with my prime manager in the three different distributors. And so you can also, have a great relationship with the sales team. Okay. So that's obviously very important to convince them that what you're importing is worth them trying to stock and then try to sell to sell to the next in the third of the three tier chain. Yeah. Yeah. This is very challenging because distributors have thousands of labels. So it's like that you are and I, you know, in the hay. So you need really to, I usually try to focus, on people that I believe that, they, you know, they marry my portfolio. And, education is, is a must. Education is a must because I also understand the sales team. They have, like, thousands of brands. They have a lot of standard to achieve. They have a lot of pressure. So, I mean, my my role is supporting them. So, like, okay. I have this relationship. Let's go together. Let's test the wine or on the other way. Oh, I see that you have this count, why you don't make me an appointment, and I I go and present my portfolio. So this is really, you know, the kind of relationship that now in this situation, we need to to tune to, you know, to fix. But isn't it a case if if I'm a if I'm a distributor or I work for a distributor on the sales, person, haven't I heard the same old story from every single importer, in New York, and, you know, they know almost what you're gonna say. You know, it's got a great label. It'll work really well with this particular style of restaurant or shop or whatever. How do you keep it fresh? How do you stop yourself from going crazy by repeating yourself? I mean, I try to be, I maybe I am, I mean, I, of course, I am Italian. I try to be very honest with my brands and with my wine because I I know the competition is strong. So I, you know, I I try to explain, maybe about crepes, about the producer, about the difference that you can have in, you know, in price. That's for restaurant, when you add the one when we used to have the one buyer. It took some time, but you could get good result. For off premises, a little bit more difficult because, so far, the on off premises really focused on ratings. So big brands, they are still, yeah, they are still the, you know, the winner, especially now. But surely there must be other, people who have the same kind of job as you that are, you know, relentlessly knocking on on doors of of shops saying, look, this this points thing can't continue forever, you know, because have you not got another way of looking at things, or do you feel that you No. Yeah. I feel that, you know, you need to be That's before COVID. You need to be con you need it to be consistent with your accounts. Okay. Today, the person doesn't want to meet you, then he wants to test some wine. I mean, you need to be present. You need to be supportive. You need to to show that you are interested in, about the other side. Okay. So about their clients and, you know, on the street and their little locality. Is that is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. Mean, in terms of the this wine shops or the wine stores, we're doing it. We talk about some quite small, some enormously huge. The that's a, you know, it's a huge difference because we've, you know, with a large store, most of the time, you have, like, a, a kind of corporate manager, which, you know, the first the first challenge is an appointment. The first challenge is to get an appointment Then when you get an appointment, I mean, all the one manager, one buyer in the United States are professional people. They know about wine, which should this is something that I really love. Then you need, you know, to play your your cards, you need to to understand, especially for a premise, usually, it works, that you need to find if they ever get on the shelf. Let's say that they want to replace for example, a a barrel or a server. This is the key point, and this is really you need to have the help of the sales rep because, I mean, it usually knows much better the accounts. And, it happened to me, like, a virus time, especially in a market like New Jersey, which is, like, a ninety, ninety five percent of premise, that I work with the right person So and, it was, like, you know, say, okay. We got there because, I know that they are looking for Freelan on the for a verdika or whatever. And today, we are showing verdika, most of the time, that was very successful. Okay. So when you talk about off premise, obviously, though, this is people buying a bottle of wine and drinking it at home. I mean, you're saying that they're a distant I mean, other differences, clear cut differences in general between states, or is it more with regional areas within states where there are, say, a more rural area, and a more urban area. How does your pitch change? There are, there are huge differences. Okay. So, again, an example of a New Jersey, it doesn't matter rural or whatever, but, I think it's more a, like a New York, a New Jersey. They are close each other, but they are totally different. So New Jersey, if you go to the shelf, you can see even, like, I I counted, like, a thirty, thirty five different pinot grigio. Uh-huh. And maybe you have a a Cortuse. Maybe you have a filangina. Maybe you have, a instilled wine, of course. And maybe you have a a verdicchio. But, I mean, that's sad. So if you go to the city to junior city or even Brooklyn, which is Chester, wherever, I mean, there is a you you can I mean, you have a different audience? So the people are much more open to to learn about new wines and to offer new wines. Mhmm. New wines, I mean, you know, less not great. Sorry, not new wines, you know, like, a less non grape. So let's say, of course, prossecco is still, you know, the the biggest, demand, but, you know, even are amazing white or, like, Frappato or, like, okay, Montepulciano. You usually have two free Montepulciano. So it's, you know, it's very, very different, the the market. And, And they they really want wines that have a ratings so they can do, like, a chef talkers. So people, they say, oh, this one is, being rated in ninety two, ninety three, or whatever. I mean, do you bring, importers over to, or people over to Italy directly so that you can, obviously, that's expensive to do. But does that build long term loyalty, or is that just to sort of, they give you a few extra orders for a year or two, and then they water from somebody else. You've been, when, when I work with a producer? Yeah. I mean, either with a I mean, in terms of, you know, getting the producer to America or to or getting the importer, the the people that sell to Italy, what are the cost benefits of those two approaches? I mean, if I well understood, if it is worthy for an Italian producer to work the market. Yeah. Yeah. It is. It's still It is, New York was a little bit, kind of overwhelmed with this, what we call workweaves. But, they still add I mean, people still like to meet the the producer. Again, especially, a little bit rural air, they are really happy to see, like an Italian producer that, you know, travel flights, all, these miles to, you know, to meet, their customer. So again, it's different from, New York City, I would say probably San Francisco, the major cities from, you know, you know, a little bit smaller and rural cities. How do you see the market changing in general in America, not just in your patch? For wine consumption? You mean now for the COVID? Yes. So, of course, there there is a big impact. Because, on premise, it's I mean, the the sales, you know, premise are really very low. Luckily, right after the COVID that they decided to authorize, restaurants and bars to sell the bottle because, in the United States, there is not, legal. You you need to have two different licenses, which is in some time Was that sorry? Was that on a state by state basis or was that across the I think it it is across the country. Most, I mean, I mean, most states. There are some states that, you can, like, buy the bottle on the shelf and they just charge like, like, a court, a court fee. But, I mean, most of the the market, I mean, the market where I work, like, New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey, they are, you know, they you you need a different license. So this was good because at least, you know, they they restaurant could sell some of the wine they have in stock. At least. So now the, the big, percentage of sales are made of of premise. There is, there is a, a pretty, high increase in online sales. So the, in terms of, like, percentage, the sales are in wine are still good, but it's a it's a very different because, the wine that now have the major the major brands. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. The major brands or or major grapes. Because, you know, you ordered the one by phone. There is no, like, maybe the small stores that they still do with some, you know, suggestion. But it's more like that the people want to have the wine at a at home, they want to drink wine or spirits or whatever. So, I mean, still for Italy, the sparkling, like, prosecco is good, and the, And the Tuscany, especially is still very good, and, I think, called supermoon. And now this season is going to be better. So let's see, with white wines, so we hope that, you know, usually Italian wine Wides. It's not like the, like, the red wines in this market. But they they I mean, there was a good increase. So now, like, the small producer, or, like, a small importers, like, dark that we need to really work on marketing, education marketing. Yeah. I mean, the way this covid thing is that I suppose there's there's an opportunity in some ways where, you know, maybe the smaller companies offer really great service in a time of crisis can, Not sure. You can build some loyalty into their into their own. I mean, I saw, like, I I I mainly, you know, work around my network now, try to avoid, you know, subway or public transport because, we try to leave the public transport for essential workers, mainly, you know, all the health worker and the whatever. So, I see that, like a restaurant, doing delivery or take out are are kind of very creative because they they start you right away to do, like, like, a kind of one one body glass using a kind of envelope or like a cocktail, take take out cocktails. They started to sell, together with the, the food, the prepared food, they started to sell, okay, the bottle of wine, they started to sell, like, the vegetables, fruits, and food. So they, they are creative. They are creative. Then we need to see how the cost is impacted the this trade, the rest of months. This is there. Yeah. I mean, maybe there's an argument for Yeah. Smaller wine boxes, which are, you know, if you drop them on the front, like, normally, you know, catering, like, they made, like, mother days manual, pair with wine. Now that I mean, there is a lot of the I'm this mark is very crappy and it is very fast. It's quick. Direct the I I like direction are really very, very fast. There are, you know, big problems because, the first is the the rent. The rent at the restaurant pay. That's a this is a huge problem. This is really huge problem. Also, the, limiting the capacity which they they must do in any case. I'm not I'm not, you know, it's not a critic. They must do. It will affect a lot of restaurant. How are you gonna rebuild brand awareness, even for brands that had some awareness about them after the COVID, because I think almost this COVID thing will be a reset for many people. How we what have you got lined up in your marketing toolbox? And brand building toolbox for post for post So I, for me, one of the major is keeping education and, contact with my sales team because run out, I mean, I cannot go and nobody can go and visit and account the customers. So, I really think it's important to to keep, interesting the relationship to be, with your sales team, education, giving suggestion, proposing, like, you know, kind of offer, which is not promotion because this market is is strict. You cannot really work on price. I mean, you can work on price, but you need to there is the so called price posting. So, and the all the prices, the the same price is for all the you cannot do anything, any specific, preferences for any accounts. So you really need to work on, on the relations. Keep on communication. That's, yeah, that's the right word. Communication communicating with your people. K. So interesting about the pricing. Obviously, word gets around in New York as it does in other places. But in some ways, that's an advantage for you. And in some ways, it's a disadvantage in terms of driving more margin from other from certain clients. I mean, is that a bit frustrating for you sometimes this kind of pricing, lock almost? No. For me, not because after working, for many years, the Italian markets. And, you know, having, having go to restaurants, asking for specific discount for me it was a good thing. Okay. It makes life a little bit more simple. Yeah. Yeah. And in any case, I mean, apart from this, that it looks like that, you know, you have less work. It's something that, in terms of competition, it's pretty equal. I'm saying pretty because, of course, you can, you can support, you know, in some way, your accounts. So, let's say that the most of the the accounts pay the same price for the bottle and the the service. Oh, why, I mean, the, the reason why you prefer a restaurant or a store, rather than another is because maybe you like better the stuff, you like better, you know, what they are proposing, how they are serving, or this kind of, you know, things. It's an it's not a matter of, only a matter of price. Okay. Well, that's good to hear. But, you know, let's say, you know, for, yeah, for a wine, you can do different breakout prices, like, for one case, three case, five cases, or whatever, but all the people, all the accounts have the access at the same terms. Mhmm. Okay. And so that does make life easier as well for you in some some cases so you don't get people. Yeah. No. That's yeah. For this, it's much easier. You know, like, get used to to fight for each, customer in Italy for an order. It's much easier. Yeah. Okay. Do you think you earn to live in Italy? In my ideally, yes. Because I I think the la the Italian lifestyle is better. In terms of, you know, job opportunities, this country as, as more resources. I'm not, you know, saying anything else as more resources, which I, I mean, I really, I really loved. I I I I like how that works, not say that I I I love Italy for me. Italy is is, in any case, I spent a month most of my time in Italy. So I I love Italy. It's just that, you know, for in terms of job opportunities, it's a little bit, much it's much more limited in, you know, in opportunities. What do you think is, I mean, New York is seen as quite a, a tough place. You know, as a woman, you know, in in Italy, people call it a sort of, you know, it's a male dominated culture. Do you is there is there a big difference as a female between working in Italy and working in America, do you think? This is, I like, a This isn't a I know the reply, which I don't know. I know it's no questions. Are we gonna No. Let's say I would say no. No. I would say that the American female do not agree with my reply. I think it's, it's still a male dominated work. Oh, I will leave it there. Maybe less. Yeah. But it's still. Still a male dominated world. Yeah. Other you're right. Yeah. It is. Yeah. We're making slow progress, I think. Yeah. Sure. Sure. I mean, we need to fight. It's a challenge. You know, the masters of wine, I don't know. Masters of wine coming through, and not just that. It's a barometer, but, I think our industry is not so bad in general, the wine No. But I think, yeah, you're right. There was a long a long way to go. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the rest your time, but how long it however long it will be, in New York City, Tatiana. And, whenever you come back to Italy, whether it's to Sure. Your home I hope so. Or to test it. I'm in Tuscany at the moment. So come and say I'll be nice to meet you face face. And if not, I'll see you maybe in verona. Okay? Yes. I miss I miss so much in Italy, and so that was my big missing for the twenty twenty. Yeah. Hope to see you everybody soon, Monty. Thank you for, asking me to talk about this market. Thank you, Charlie. You've been great. Thank you. Ciao. Ciao. Ciao. Ciao. Ciao. Listen to the Italian wine pot test wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Hemali FM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.