Ep. 184 Monty Waldin interviews Ettore Nicoletto (Santa Margherita Group) | Discover Italian Regions: Trentino-Alto Adige

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Porto. Who do my guest today is Ettore Nicoletto. Ettore is the CEO of the Santa Margarita Group in Veneto in Northeast. It's today. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. So this is one of Italy's most important wine groups. Yes, we are. We are in in the private sector, at least. Does it family owned or shareholder? It's it's family owned. The Panzapo family owned this business, and, they've been, let's say, owning this business for four generations, and for over eighty three years. So it's it's a long history. One of the when I worked in my first wine shop in the nineteen nineties, we stopped Santa Margarita Pinerrigio, which has had an incredible success. What's the story of that particular wine? And why is it so important for the group? Well, it's it's an incredible story because it it is a story of, process innovation and also activation. Basically, we tried, a new experimentation with, pinot grillo grapes by pinifying, the the grapes of the skin or the wine of the skin, and we obtained a a wine that, created a a a thought a new category in, in, in the white wine business back in the sixties. And the scenes, the sixties, the opinion of it has been a phenomenal success, not only in Italy but also around the world, and, most of the produce and most winemaking districts all around the world are tried to to grow pinot grigio grapes, and they make it a success themselves. So we we put pinot grigio in the map, so to speak. Yeah. It's almost like a brand, isn't it? Pinot grigio? Yeah. I think, all around the world, Santa Margita is synonymous with pinot grillo and vice versa. I would say we're very proud of this. Okay. So in terms of the size of the company as a whole, how big are Unity in terms of either vineyard or sales. We are, pretty much, in, in the top ten, but, you know, the the size is not as important as, performance and profitability. So we rank number nine or ten, but it's a classification that does not excite as much. We are going to close two thousand and eighteen turnover wise at about one hundred and eighty millions euros. Total production will be at about two twenty two million bottles obtained from six different regions of of Italy because one of the things that, makes Santa Margarita, import important in in the winemaking business in Italy is the representation of different geographies. And, we are in the most renowned areas of Italy for for the mine growing. So from the manitou, to Franca Corta, Artoa, digit Central Italy in, in Tuscany with, with gently class by Marima. I forgot to Ligana, in Lumberdien Bennett. So that's one of the recent acquisitions, isn't it Ligana? Ligana is one of the most recent acquisitions together with, a a winery in, in Sardinia. You have to know, or you would probably know that we have a white wine DNA. So we are very much attracted by, areas where fine white wines are produced. The Legano is is one of Italy's, most famous white wines, even though it's not a huge region. It has, the wines sell for quite good prices. Yeah? It, it is a very interesting, profile as a wine. I I I believe that, Lugana has the characteristic to become the the the new pinion bridge of the future, easy to drink, easy to combine with food, easy to approach, so an easy wine, but it's still yet a complex wine. And so, we have great expectations from from Louisiana. And, Sardinia, you're working with many Vermentinos. No, Sardinia, Sardinia, for us, is Vermentino, but we're looking for Vermentino in Sardinia, then we discovered Calignano, which is a a fantastic red grape. So it's it's it's, you know, when when you look for new territories, new wineries, it's, it's about discovering. So interesting, what you're talking about, Katignon, because it's it's a real underdog of a grape. I've worked with Karen Yor, and Rishi, I'm a big fan of Karen Yor, I'm a medicareon yor, is on easily. And some critics really don't like it. But for me, what you're doing with Karen was very, very interesting that a big company can pick an underdog like that and do something with it. So what is what is your marketing approach for a great variety like that? There many people may not know about not about get about Catignano, you you have to speak about the territory first. We have to talk about Sardinia, talk about the climate characteristics of the area. And the special side of our vineyards that are situated in the south, when nest of, of the region. And then you have to talk about the wine, the the the the strong fruitiness, the the the roundness of the wine, the the the authenticity, and, you know, the fact that, in is one of the things I like about Carignano is that it doesn't need wood to express itself. Of course, you can use a touch of wood, but, the the wine doesn't need much wood to to make a statement. Is that saying something about trends at the moment? There has been that trend amongst consumers to try and find easier drinking wines wines by the glass wines that haven't had huge amounts of oak added to them. No. I see. So it's been a good issue, isn't is generally an unserved wine. Nagana can't have oak, but it's not like a really why you're talking about carignon as well. Is that the trend that you're identifying then? Well, you know, for sure there's a trend, less oak, less oak fermentation. This has been happening for quite a while. I should say that in certain areas of the world, you you see a sort of comeback to to wood. So it's, it's controversial. But, you know, from our observation point, especially because our style, the style we try to impart on wine is, I will say and easy, but, a food friendly style. So a wine must be very pleasant and easy to match with food. Oak and wood in general is not, the the tool that we use, heavily, of course, red wines sometimes need, either small barrels or or oak or casks. But, in general, we try to make the wine express. It's alpha without a high degree of homeward to it. So we're gonna see you by Bernillo estate, then I've built it in some stage. You should talk about wood, the wine that Spain's gonna be is in wood. Moreno is, is a fantastic, would be a liar if I said that we haven't explored the opportunities there. We haven't seen, you know, yet the turn of the friendly car yet, but, for sure, it is something that we would like to see, you know, in our portfolio, wine down the road. And, of course, in the case of Bernelo, what is, is essential to to the making of a a a good Bernelo. So you mentioned also Canti Glasgow. That's why I think is really coming back, strongly in terms of quality and in terms of the way it's being marketed, sort of, communal, not hypallations, but, really breaking the turmoil down. What's your situation like in Canticlassico then? Well, in Canticlassico, we are well equipped. So we have, two estates. We are very proud of, especially one of them, which is one of the which is situated, six hundred meters above the c level. So it's, a kind of a hoic line growing. We are happy because we, we are able to produce elegance. Does everybody say saw, isn't it? High altitude, sir, it's a unique. It really is a unique device. You know? It's a unique terwar. We we are fully organic, and we we may explain in the county class because, multi award, the, and, again, easy to combine, to match with food, which is extremely important. So you have a CDT. You have tannins, soft tannins, but you have tannins. You have tannins. You have tannins. You have tannins. You have tannins. You have tannins. You have tannins. You have tannins. You're a early muscular. This is a very difficult question to answer in two words, but if anybody can do it, you can. What is how different is the approach when selling wine in Italy to Italians and say America or the rest of Europe? Is it a big you have to do a big mindset switch when you're selling? No. Not really. The difference, I believe, lies in the fact that in Italy, you can do direct to consumer. So it's easy if you're able to, communicate and the characteristics, the features, of a wine. Whereas in in the United States, you have the three tier system in most cases, and that makes it very difficult to communicate a wine. And, you know, the story behind the wine, the the the heritage the winery, the terroir. So it's difficult to make a consumer travel without, you know, being able to to talk to him. And we have too many tears before getting to the consumer that, that it is very difficult to, to, to create a solid, and an effective communication in the United States. But things may change. You know, direct to consumer is, is gathering speed in in America. It has, reached a significant value in, against the the old market value on and off premise. So I feel that, in future, we may be able to, to establish a stronger content with consumers also in, in, in, in, in, in America. Have you ever consider getting your own base in America. So, like, an environmental dimension, it's only in, for example. Well, we already have our own operation, our import operation in America, which is doing very well. It's that based in just one state. Or is it not? We are our headquarters are in Miami. Okay. In Florida. But we have, forty district managers and the regional managers scattered all around the territory all around the United States, and we do a very nice job on behalf of our our brands, the the the group's brands. The future, in my opinion, is, a winery in America, will it be Napa, will it be Washington State or in Oregon? I don't know. But we are seriously looking into opportunities because, again, having a winery situated in the United States can give you access to the DTC business, which is something we believe will become a big slice of the pie in the commerce of wine in the American future. Do you think having your own base in America also makes American critics take you more seriously or do you not think that's important? I will no. I think we we were serious before. We are still serious. Nothing has changed. The advantage that we see is that we are closer to the market. We speak to our distributors. So we spend time with them. We it's like stuff, stuff, training, sales training? A lot. A lot. We have people, fully dedicated to, to do education, stuff training, which is key. It is key because, otherwise, we are, we will be equal to to the others. We want to show the differences. We want to make a difference, and we ought to to speak about our wines in detail. We want to, distributors and the consumers to understand why Santarita wine groups are different and better. I know you're a very keen golfer. You are how tall are you? One hundred and eight, ninety seven centimeters. It was two meters. So you were previously a professional bar giggle player? No. I wasn't volleyball. You were. Yeah. I'm a volleyball player. Really? Not professional, but I I played well. I can I still can play well? Okay. So, I mean, when you were when you were younger, when you were small, you ever envisage yourself getting to where you are now, or did you have a completely different thought for your potential career? No, really. I wanted to be a doctor, a medical doctor, so quite a different job, but, why was that? Did you put your parents in the medical profession? I was just, I was just, passionate about that. You know, I I still am, you know, the guy who tries to cure you or to give you the antibiotics, the something from for your allergy, you know, it's something that is part of me. So that that, obviously, the kind of diet aspect is, is, quite key to you in terms of I mean, how do you see the play now on wine as part of a healthy diet? Is that a big thing or not really? Well, I think, wine, if, if, if, drank him deceleration is is part of of your daily diet. I drink wine every day. Sometimes, but just because of my profession, you you tend to exceed, but as long as you are, you're not driving, and you can, is driving motorbikes motorbikes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no longer no longer because, you know, I I used to participate in, in international motorbike. You really? He represented Italy. I represented Italy. It was, in the eighties though, you know, quite a quite a long time ago, but that was my most important sport when I was younger. Did you have a I mean, you are incredibly tall. Did you have a special cycle. Oh, just, some some arrangements to make it easier to to ride, but, no special arrangements. I was, I had some talent. I must, so you you you're most talented coming. Do you what about what are you that's a personal question about your kids? I mean, are you do you let them get on with it or are you behind them saying, come on, push yourself? No. No. No. They are free. I I want older, fifteen years old. She plays golf with me. She never plays skulls would need, though, because of she. She knows that you always wanna win. Right? No, but it's not bad. She's just, she feels the pressure, but I I put pressure. So it's just, it must be my face. So what do you like with the stuff that I mean, you know, with some times you know, CEOs of companies are just always on people's cases. They're always behind them. How do you manage people? Well, I, I think, I don't, I don't, I, I don't think I, I manage terror. I can be intense. I can be intense, but, I think I'm a, I'm an easy, leader, as a CEO. I try to to involve people, and most important. I try to tell people why I'm asking something. I'm not simply asking do this. I'm asking please do this, but I explain to them why I'm asking that. I mean, it doesn't happen all the time. Okay. I mean, do you enjoy being the CEO of such an enormous company with a brush that you thrive on that, or do you wake up sometimes and think, god, this is such a big ship I'm driving. It's it's it's it's beyond me. All these are the multinational company that you Let's face it. I I I like the the thrill of of doing this job. If I didn't, probably I will be here because it's complex. It's challenging. To speak of challenges, climate change is one. How are you dealing with that? It is a big challenge. It is a big challenge. And I think it's a little undervalued, underestimated by, by the industry in general. We're trying to buy land, on hills, so we're trying to encourage and to increase or incentivize, you know, the the the growing of vines, at a higher altitude in, Artuadigene, in Francacolta. So But doesn't that impose extra cost though. I mean, obviously. It does. Absolutely. It, but it's a change we've got app to. And if it is, more costly, we'll have to live with it. But, it it's happening. Yeah. We can we can tell. We can we can taste it. It's happening, and we have to, to be smart to learn how to deal with it. So even though you so it must be quite a brief decision buying a vineyard, not so long ago in Sardinia. So you're so you're really looking everywhere, you're keeping your options open, hotter climate areas, and also cooler climate areas in the north? Yeah. You have to rebalance for your You're portfolio. For your holdings. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. It's really nice to talk to you. Great conversation, golf, wine. We've been around the world a little bit. Climate change, meteorology, and motorcycle riding. It's great. I mean, for for for a suited, very smart CEO, you're actually quite a groovy guy. You know, I thought you'd just be on. Thank you. Big big big shot scene, you know, you know, next time we come with a t shirt. Yes. Yeah. Just wear some shorts there. That's otherwise you'll get arrested, where we are. So people might ask us to ask you questions. Really nice to meet you. Thanks a lot, man. Thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 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