Ep. 114 Monty Waldin interviews Angelo Fongoli (Fongoli Winery) | Discover Italian Regions: Umbria

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Monte Walden. My guest today is Angelo Fongoli of the Fongoli winery in Montefalco in umbria. Welcome, Angelo. Hi. So just give me a little bit of history about the estate, obviously a family estate, the Fonguri family. You you were long term, um, rian family, or did you come in? Yes. Yes. How many generations? I don't know exactly, but many times. But before records were kept. Okay. Yes. So and who runs the estate? Obviously, it's you. Do you have brothers, sisters, father, grandmother? Now, I I'm working with my wife. Okay. And what's she called? And is she umBra? She follows that. Yes. Yes. She's from the sport. So how big is the fungal y vignal? We have twenty hectares. Of vineyards. Also, we have olive grooves, a little bit of forest, forty hectares. In total. Yes. That's quite nice. Yeah. So and in the forest, do you have any wild animals yet? Or Actually, we we don't have, capillary, this kind there because we are in the hills. We are not in the mountains. So what's your altitude? Three hundred meters. Did you take over from your father and mother? How did you become head of the winery? My grand parents, both, sir, has got a winery. So now I'm working in the winery of Motifarco. Okay. The other one, it was in, rimini. Oh, really? Oh, on the Adriatic coast. Yes. So they had a winery in rimini. And then did they sell that? Or how did they come from rimini to, to, to, the father of my father was from Montefalco. Okay. Yeah. My father was umbrian. And my mother was, from rimini. Okay. I grew up here. So I now I work in Montebarcos. Okay. So tell me a bit more about the vineyard. Do you have twenty hectares? Yes. And in terms of, your management, are you organic, biodynamic conventional? We started with organic work in, twenty eleven. And, after two years, we worked in, building. Yes. Now, all the, farm is building all it groups, and vineyards, we work completely without, chemical products. Why did you decide to go biodynamic? Was it did you taste some biodynamic wines you liked? Or you just like the weird philosophy? Or Really? At that I didn't like so much the pure building, because sometimes they are a little bit stranger in the days, and not completely friendly for all the people. And this is a little bit a problem. I'd like to promote the very traditional style of, the wines, the Umberan wines of, two three generations ago. When you say you'd like, you'd like the old traditional style, what do you mean by that? You mean, wines that were very elegant, not too heavy. First, the dynamic view is the view to make this original style of wines in my opinion. Now, I want to also produce a very, very clean, the wines, very straight style, wines, and we work for this. Since at the beginning, we started to produce a cleanette wines, in the smell and the taste. So we started with the the sweet sorrentino because it's the easiest to make natural because of the tannins, the alcohol, protect naturally the wine. After the dry Grandino, and, at the end of the white wines. What difference have you seen in your in your vine since going by dynamic? What difference is there in the soil? First, we work in the soil. Okay. And after in the second layer, in the vines. All the work is set in the soil at the beginning, a very deep impact to the vines. Okay. So it was difficult and, this is the problem because many start and start the work at the beginning because, the beginning is very, very difficult. Very less, production, in the the grade, and I was a little bit scared. With the time, the production increase a little bit. Now we produce less than standard production, but, it's good for us. But the quality of the grape increased we didn't have no more fungus in the grapes, in the leaves. We saw the good condition, the good life of the vines and of the grape, the quality of the grape. Now we are a family business, so we don't need a lot of grape. We need a very high quality grape and then to produce a traditional style wine, okay, without selected yeast, or any sort of, analogies product in the wine. Do you think the wines are more savory, especially our, white wines are, very, very sappened? Tell me about your white wines. Which grape varieties do you have? We have Geketo and the Trebienos Prodino. And what's the difference between the two in terms of flavor, texture? Trebienos Prodino is more complex in the the flavors also in the structure. Sure. Creketo now is a little bit easier to drink and more understandable for many times of people. Yeah. Okay. The Trebienos Palatino, if I with the Taviras Cortino, we produce, three kinds of wines, white, vinification, the red vinification, which means, on the skins. Alright. Yes. And also, the second fermentation in the bottle. So sparkling wine. Yes. But fermentally in bottles. So traditional method, like, just like champagne. Yes. And so because it is a very complex, very interesting in the smell is, the fermentation, the production is very good, if the work is, The work is still well in the video. The vineyard and also in the in the cellar. And let's say, now we talk about Sacramento. When you talk about a change in texture in your wine, since you've gone biodynamic, what about for the Sacramento? What difference does the biodynamics make? Because Sacramento can be quite difficult to ripen have quite aggressive tannin. Have you noticed any difference with biodynamics that are to do with biodynamics, but and not because with organic and biodynamic farm, you have a lower yield. Mhmm. What do you think the biodynamics does to the Circrantino. The problem is not the tannins, because, our work in the cellar, all of the aging in a big burrows with the old wood make a good selection of the tannins. So since the past we didn't have any problem with the time. Our, Sanarantino is, very velvet around, and many people who taste Sanarantino, discover a new kind of second, you know, well balanced and round. But with the dynamic work, we increased the complexity of the smell because we can bring to the seller more natural use and so they are, different in the different vineyards, so we can can produce more complex smell with a less production. We have a good structural wine, but this is not a problem in old on details that they have, structure. Yeah. What you should do is get the university of Peddleja to come and analyze changing microbiology in your vineyards just to to show that there really is a difference in terms of microflora, particularly the the yeast. Have you done that? No. Because we we are in family business. Get them to come. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So we can look at the Italian state debate for the regional government to see what the effects are, with these, with these, with these yeasts. In effect, we are in the binatra Association of, association of Italian wineries working naturally. Yes. And they are making a certificate test on the natural vineyards and they can know with the specific new kind of test the life, the in the Vineas. Okay. So they actually, they can know if you really work right in the natural view. Okay? The association can know if you work. Right? The work in the future would be days if the single seller work right. And, if they can be in the association in the vineyards. That's Angeli Nomao. Is that right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So Vanatou is an associate mattanic wine producers that work naturally, they could be organic biodynamic certified or with no certification. And to make sure nobody's cheating, what Angelo is saying is the wines are analyzed. And so if any there are any residues in the pesticide residue or herbicide residue, this situation will know this, and they will just quietly ask the winery to leave. But the plus side of this, as as he was saying, is that you get a lot more scientific information about about, sorry, natural yeast in the in the vineyard. Because it's possible to know if you use a chemical problem because, there is, something in the grape, something in the lids. But, you know, it was difficult to know if the work natural is good because, you have to balance the natural life in the vineyards. You have to increase the biodiversity in the vineyards. Now, we are working with the Sacramento also in the that's because we, in two thousand and nine, we started with, this work in a little quantity to try to discover the difference from the wood fermentation. We can keep, three months. Actually, we keep three months of skin contact during and, after the fermentation. So we can extract more from the, skins of Sacramento. And after we age the wine in wood. Sometimes when we talk about wines made in amphora and doing biodynamic, sometimes the wines can be very different tasting, a little bit sort of funky, farmyardy animal like. How would you just describe your wine style? We like white wines. We don't want the art smell from the animal smell and they sometimes the typical smell all the second antenna green. Green taste and and horsey smells. Yes. Everybody talks about second antenna being a very tenock grape. Do you think biodynamic practices help make a second antenna, which is a little bit softer? Is it easier to track the tannin, the pips a little bit riper. The important is, make good tannins because the sagatilo is tannic. Okay. And, there is not sagatino without a tan So the problem is make around velvet and the well balanced tannins. So how does biodynamics or other practices in the vineyard? How do you get those nice juicy tenants rather than the hard tenants? What are you doing in the vineyard? We don't work in the vineyards to make a more velvet tannins. I think, this is not possible. We work to make a well balanced wines so they they can produce the right quantity of grape. They can do. So in the vineyards, all the, vines are different. We grow the, all the single vines, like, a single person. Okay? Each each vine is seen to be different. So we work in the single vines, and we work in the soil, deeper in the soil, increase the humus, the structure, the soil. How do you do that? Is that with a couple crops? So machine. Yes. We work first in deepened the soil, and after we so many different kinds of, grass. And, after we the the grass to increase the the oomans and nitrogen. And So what plant are you using? You're using, when you sow a surface or a cover crop between the rows, which plant are you sowing? What seeds are you sowing? Pisalo Protego? Pis. Fava. Which is, like a radish, which is very good at disinfectant affecting the soil. Yes. That also has a root that punches a hole in the soil, which allows rain water to penetrate and stay there. Vicha. Vech, which is another legume, which is a nitrogen forming plant, which makes a nice massive vegetation, which you can, cut cut or roll and would also slowly decompose next. Many different kind of, mixed, fjords to provide not the color, as well as, pollen for beneficial insects. So they increase the biodiversity during their life, for the insect life, for many different kind of, life in the soil and, over. Can tourists come and visit you? Yes. Yes. Do they like to see the flowers in the Yes. But between the vineyard, or do they say, oh, you your vineyard looks untidy? That because, we must explain how the vineyard looks, little bit different. At the beginning, we show our orders vineyards. Sometimes they ask why we can we keep the these all the points because it's a different view. We explain, the work, the the style, because you read something about the veneers, it's completely different. All for the book is a completely different view, but, we can explain with the logic and understandable for all the our work. So every vines are different. So each each vine is treated as an individual vine rather than as as a however you really try to individualize everything to get more complex city into your wine. Yep. Yeah. Basically, it looks like, the vineyard looks like it was made in, in a factory every every every vine looks exactly the same. Yes. Every vineyard is the same. No weeds. Mhmm. And you're saying that with your vineyard, everything becomes a bit more untidy in certain way. It's a little bit more chaotic, but there's a reason behind that because the cover crops that you sow, color of the vineyard changes, the smell of the vineyard changes. And each plant then could be, each vine can be an individual. Yes. Press itself as individual. But the natural, the natural is a chaotic, the this not exist nature. In straight lines. Natural doesn't work in straight lines. Uh-huh. But the the bottom is the wine we made our cleaner. It's because some producers produce a strange kind of wines, but we can work, to produce good wines. Yeah. What you're saying is you you even though your your burden and your vineyards are full of, flowers and look a bit chaotic. What you want to make is a wine that's clean and clear. You you don't really want to make a wine that is, very, how can we say it politely? Very, very natural in the in the negative sense where it's very funky, stinky. Shit. Okay. Brilliant. Angela Fongeli. Thanks very much for coming today on the Italian wine podcast. You probably got one of the most beautiful vineyards in the area of all these wild flowers all over the place. I do hope the people that come and visit you will, I'll learn we'll learn to appreciate them. Thanks for coming in. Thank you. 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