Ep. 1514 Matthieu Taunay | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Since twenty seventeen, the Italian One podcast has exploded and expects to hit six million listens by the end of July twenty twenty three. We're celebrating this success by recognizing those who have shared the journey with us and giving them the opportunity to contribute to the on success of the shows. By buying a paper copy of the Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a donation to help the ongoing running costs, members of the international Italian wine community will be given the chance to nominate future guests and even enter a price draw to have lunch with Stevie Kim and Professor Atigioshenza. To find out more, visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Billen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialties that pair naturally with their wines, and the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Minon, on Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm delighted to continue our special subseries that highlights the winners of the prestigious five star wines and wines without walls competition that took place earlier this year. Over the course of two days, at the end of March, early April, just before Vin Italy, more than two thousand two hundred wines were tasted by an international jury of wine journalists, Italian winemakers, sommeliers, Italianian wine ambassadors. Those wines that scored more than ninety points were awarded certificates and will be included in the five star wines and wine without walls two thousand twenty four book that is coming out soon. While the very best ones in each category were singled out for special awards. The wines without wall section of the five star competition gives recognition to the increasing range of wines produced by organic biodynamics sustainable and low intervention methods. Wines have become so much more available and important in recent years, not least as winemakers face the challenges of climate change. Something we'll talk about today. Today we're traveling to the Marima in southern Tuscany to visit the wine estate of Montevero, which won the wines without walls award for best organic white wine. For its Monteveraux chardonnay Diological, toscana, I GT. Matier tonet, the winemaker at Monteveraux joins me as my guest. Many congratulations, Matier, to you and to the whole team. How are you today? Thank you very much, Mark. I'm feeling very fine today. Thank you very much. Good. Is it a warm day, Matthew? I'm imagining you've been suffering some very hot temperatures. Yeah. It's a warm day, but there's a wind just changed two days ago, and now it's wind from the north. So it's a dry wind. So it's much, much nicer than, since the last ten days with a shark. Shiloco is a wind from the substance very humid. And it really makes a difference when you want to sleep at night. Okay. I can understand that. And I, I'd like, you, first of all, to take our listeners to Marima, to describe where you are, what are some of those climatic influences, you've mentioned the winds, and you're very near the Iranian Sea looking out to the Argentina. Is that right? Exactly. We are in, capario, this, small, medieval town. And, there really is a source steep of testing. We are by the sea just in front of Montel giltaleo as a sec. The winery is really seeing the sea from the vineyards as a distance probably is two maximum circular metals from from the sea. We are on a small slope facing the north of the bay. So it's facing south, actually, this, this vineyard, and we are now today about forty hectares of, of vineyard in this property. And the back of the vineyard, then we are at the hill of Monteo. So the name of the winery comes from the name of this hill, Monteo, the white ball. So the the hill of the white ball, Monteo. And on the top of this hill, Monteo, there is a major wide village of, of capaldi. So that's a very, very good picture. I'm imagining Capalbio, really looking out and you've got this beautiful position of sea and land. And what about those wild boar? Do you still have them roaming and eating the grapes? Yes. So we have to defend ourselves, by, being good friend with the hunter. That's your thing. And and second thing is, to build a a fence that is high enough and deep enough. Also, to protect yourself from a wild boar. But recently, actually, we have a little bit less problematic with the wild boar because the wolf is, is in Marima as well. So so there is many wolves here in Maran. I've seen that, there is a less problematic of, what I bought as well. Yeah. Oh my. That's very, very interesting. Now tell us a little bit about Monteveda, a bit of of the history of the estate, and I know you're an organic wine estate. So that's something I'd like to hear about and how, with some of the organic interventions that you do in the vineyard. Exactly. So Monttever is quite a young project because it's born in, in two thousand and three. From the the passion and the imagination of, gear of weapons. He is the owner, he's German from, Munich in, Babieira. It discovered place. He identifies, to begin this project, and we he planted because then I arrived into some eight in this project. So he planted the first fifteen hectares. In two thousand and four, two thousand and five and two thousand and six, and I entered this project in two thousand and eight to make the first wine. So we make wine only for the last fifteen years, at at Montego. So very very very new projects. And you were organic from the beginning? Exactly. I wanted to tell you about this story about how we we move into organic agriculture on that because, until you plant your vineyard, it's very, very difficult to understand what how the capacity of your water to understand how your water will manage all this, situation with the roads that we can have during summer here. And And so it has been interesting for me for the first two, three vintages to understand as much as possible, the terawatt contestant is capacity to understand how to balance the vineyard. And that doing all this, work that I understand actually that. Okay? Now I'm organic, because, slowly, I understand that, by balancing the the vineyard by understanding how the soil is working, boosting the macrobiologic life of the soil. That actually, I couldn't just get out all this, chemical pesticide, and work only with, surface on, and copper and manage easily in vineyard with, on these these two products. We are also using some, some tea, how you call that? Like a tisane? Yes. Tisane. Exactly. In French. Alright. So we call that Tisane also in English. Yeah? Yeah. I Yes. Okay. Is this a sort of biodynamic Tizon? No. It's not biodynamic. I mean, anyone can can do that. It's just, we are just getting some different kind of, of, plans that, that have this, cryptographic, activity that helps the copper or the sulfur to being even more efficient. So by using all these, actually, we have to few years, I understand that we were actually organic. So it was easily for us after ten years to, ask for the organic, certification. Yes. So all the wine are organic. Since the vintage two thousand nineteen, but there were a little bit before organic actually. Now you've mentioned or I'm thinking of pest control. You've mentioned how you deal with wild boars, but what about pests in the vineyard that might have been sprayed with a chemical pesticide. How do you combat pesticides in your organic vineyard? Actually, when I arrived here, we had a problem with Millibank. And Millibank, I understand very, very soon after not even two vintages that, using insecticide, you could you don't kill millibeast with insecticide, or at least you kill millibokes, but you don't kill the problem after two to not even two vintages. It was a second vintage at the said that after the first insecticide, complete this insecticide, and that's to that. It's recreating a biodiversity in terms of insect. So in those insects, for sure. Milliberg is part of it. And in first couple of months, couple of years, Milliberg, yes, will be a problem for me, and it will spread. But slowly, there would be a kind of balance with all the other insects, and and some of the many of them, actually, first of that, first of all, will take the place of the milli bucks. So milli bucks will not have so much space to develop. And secondly, in those other insects. There would be those insects that kill or eat the milli bug. And so it took me actually, I three three vintages, three other vintages to recreate the complete balance in my VINA. And today, I can tell you I don't even because then for ten years, I'll continue to follow this problematic to count the millibanks, go in the vineyard, cancel millibanks, in the spring, in the summer, stuff like this. But today is not a problem anymore. And I know that there is many new users being out here around that out this problem of milligrams. So, you know, that gives you hints this kind of problematic that says that, okay. So try the same with, all the, anti cryptography side that you use for, for the milieu, for example, or for the for the milieu. And so that was exactly the same. That, after a couple of years that, I stopped all these chemicals and and I became engaged. So re recreating this balance in terms of biodiversity and recreating a balance in the plant to make sure that the plant is not too much vigorous, okay, but not even too less vigorous. Okay? So it can also the plant can defend itself against this problem at the end. Okay. So a much more holistic approach to the whole environment. I mean, it it's all about prevention. It's all about putting all the situation as best as possible to prevent this problematic. When you have a vigna that is too much vigorous, That means that first of all, you would have too much grapes. Secondly, you would have too much leaf and all this too much of grapes and leaves create this humid condition for the mildew to develop, and I like air. And in this being paid. I don't know if you heard, but this problematic, but mildew in two thousand twenty three in tuscany, but in all over Italy, actually. Yeah. They are speaking about forty percent less I don't believe it that, but forty percent less volumes in two thousand twenty three because of the mildew. So it's a big, big programmatic. And for us, really, we lose maybe two percent, but, really, nothing, nothing Yes. My mind. That's incredible. It's really finding that holistic approach is is helping with climate change too because this mildew problem is happening from the extreme heat and then the crazy rains that are happening. And you're finding that although climate change is obviously an issue, this type of farming is a much more effective way of coping. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. Yes. Because this kind of farming way is also working in, it's a term in French. I don't know if it's the same in in English. Resilience? Yes. Yes. When you have this kind of problematic with the climate change with a drought, for example, as a last four months, two months. For example, during summer, I've seen that, today, I really, really have vineyards that resist more and more and more to this, to this drought. So they are more and more resilient. To this drought, for example, but also sometimes we have some rain because climate change is, is the this program is the the extreme climate change. That's doing, same vintage. You have a big drought, but after you have big rains, or so that can happen, in, September, for example, during the vintage. And that's happened. Sometimes during vintage for us to have big rain of, like, eighty millimeters of offerings in in one shot. And I've seen that ten years ago, twelve years ago that will have been the disaster in the vineyard for the soils and and for the the grapes that were, ripening. And today, it was actually two two years ago. We had this, this rain on the last part of the vintage, so it was still couple of hectares of cabanas souvenirs that, needed to be, to be our best at eighty millimeters of rain, and I see now. I I wanted to to to go right after around two days after, okay. We're entering to this, this vineyard, and we get out all this, this, these grapes. I'm testing the grapes and say, the resist part quite well. And we could have, keep these grapes for another eight days, I would say, a week for sure, probably eight days after this rain. And they continue to to maturate, to ripen with obtaining problem because of this resilience. Yes. Because of this resilience. Now let's talk about your award winning line. It's a great achievement because to win the best organic white wine in the wines without walls, means that this wine scored the highest points of any of the other organic white wines that were submitted. And there were many good wines. I was a judge at five star in wines without walls. So it's a very rigorous test and the top wines, then go through another tasting to ensure that, they are worthy. So it's a great achievement. Tell us about this chardonnay. I would imagine chardonnay is not the easiest grape to grow in southern tuscany. Exactly. That's why it's a great achievement actually. You can imagine. I arrived, in, I mean, I mean, two thousand eight in this project, as I told you before. Where did you come from at? Yeah. Uh-huh, I I come from, France, as you can imagine, and And, but at this time, I was working in Napa Valley. Oh, okay. I was working, with, this white maker, Sean, figure in, in Napa Valley, while he was for working for Alfa Megan. At this time. And when I arrived in this project, it was an eight, when they talk to me, talk to me about this project, they said about this, both of varieties that's planted, they said about this and that planted, and they said about this Sharpen. And I said, whoa, chardonnay, in front of the scene, south of tuscany, how are we gonna do? How are we gonna do? And really, it's it has been really long journey, long journey to to to understand this, this variety. Yeah. Because Chardon is very versatile. New Zealand, South Africa, in Boga, in in Joha, you can find chardonnay everywhere. But being that is not an easy, variety. It's really not an easy variety. It reacts very much to this climatic condition. So if you have a hot vintage, a cold vintage, really, you can feel that, in the wifi in the gray first and then in the wine. So it has been difficult to to to manage the vineyards first. To have, enough yield. So at the opposite of other way of syncing, for the chardonnay, I, decided to put a little bit more vigor in the vineyard to ask a little bit more, like, anyways, There are in the soil that is quite deep. There's a lot of clear. So it's it's just soil is quite already rich. So it was not a problem for the plant to support a little bit more yield. And this, a little bit more yield that, I asked the sharpening change the the way of making this sharpening because we had a little bit more acidity in the, in the final grapes, at harvest. Also, the the window of our vesting was a little bit bigger because at the very beginning, I really we are missing for a day maximum two days, and you were really completely changing the style of serve of the chardonnay because of two days late harvesting. So very, very small decisions make very big differences. Yes. Yes. Very, very small decision. That was first change that that we did in the unions. And for sure, by year after year of integers, after green stages, I understood that I should probably harvest the chardonnay a little bit earlier than ripe. So it's always difficult for a winemaker to to say, okay. So the grapes are not right, but I will anyway To keep that freshness? Yes. I will harvest them. I took this decision as well, and that also helps the wines to be to have more more more tension. And then inside the sellers, big decision and changes that I've been doing is, first of all, but it's not changes. It's just, also here is a journey because I was working with powers with different But then slowly, you understand that these, these these tonally are not good. So you are testing a new one, and and it takes time because you have only once per year. Yes. You can try a new tonally. So it takes time to understand which one of these tonally, which one of these, wood are working well with the chardonnay? How much new wood you want to use? And and finally, also, in the for being five intatures in twenty twelve, I decided to add part of the aging in, concrete. So that means that I'm doing the, our colleague fermentation in in barrels in order to really divide all these sponsors of these different clones and and and, and type of, for pregs that I can harvest in the vineyard. And then after I'm making the blend of the best of these parts and doing the aging for another sixteen months in concrete and invoice. So we have two different, kind of aging, and also this really helps me to keep attention, not attention in term of a stricter of the wine, but tension itself aromatic. Very, very, very fresh. Okay. And then you do the assemblage. And then at the end, yes, I'm doing a supply. I can change a little bit or so. I can decide at the end, okay. Let's not use one or two bars to have a nense a little bit more of supporting, in concrete because it lacks a little bit attention. So I can still take a decision at the end and and not bottle all of those or all of the powers, for example, or the opposite, not all of the concrete tanks, but, Just to get that balance and that tension in the line that you're looking Exactly. Yeah. Well, it must be hugely satisfying with all these decisions not just over one year, but over many years to reach a point where a wine that you've been so passionate and involved with can win such an important award. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really great pleasure to have a to have this kind of awards, after after this, this long journey. But I can tell you that also it's, it's very nice to hear from our many clients that we have, around Italy or or around Europe that, this satellite really, really, gives them a great satisfaction. And I can tell you, That was not easy, yeah, but the actually, the Italian markets react the most about this, this chardonnay. And we have great success in Italy. There's many great white wine in Italy. Definitely. I can tell you, testing lots of great wine from out to AdiJ down to CECLia. So it's many great white wines. And to be able to be part of them, after only, fifteen years of the winery. And to be part of this top, white wines in Italy is really great honor. Yeah. Yes. And a great achievement. Now I'd like to turn to food and wine and to discussing this great chardonnay with with the food of marama, but also maybe with other cuisines. How is this, wine enjoyed? And what are some of the dishes that you feel pair best with it? Definitely, if you're on Marima, you want to, to pair this point with, with fish, with, with fish, with, gamble Ross, so, for example, red shrimp. We have, many of these also fish soup that we have are these. One, the the famous Nialivorno, which is the soup. There's a lot of fish. Which is quite intense. Sometimes, also, I think they put, tomatoes in it, so it's quite intense soup. And it's really, really can stand very, very well with the with the chardonnay. But I like also to, to pair, to chardonnay with, with white meat. So I'm French, so I can think about the lapar and mustard for the most hard rabbit. That's really, really extraordinary. I mean, with And imagine you must have a lot of rabbits in that, Yeah. Yeah. Lot of them. Lot of them. Exactly. Exactly. Wonderful. Mhmm. Well, it sounds fabulous. And, I'm imagining this richer style of Chardonnay, such a good match for that, that, rich, and hearty fish soup of Livorno. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's much very well with, it's canceled. And also what it's very interesting, you usually don't like to test the wine at a very, very low temperature. But, when you test the shop net, feel fourteen, fifteen degrees. Also, really, it's fantastic. It's really, really fantastic. Lots of expressivity, but in the mouth, the stricter of the wines, the tension of the wines, really, really makes you understand that's why it's really your wife for gastronomy. We could have spoken about the red wines you're producing, but we've run out of time now. But I'm interested in some of the blends you're doing San Gervais with Garnatcha. For example, which sounds very, very interesting. But we'll have to leave that for another time, Matthew. I'd love to, follow our conversation. Thank you very much for taking the time out to share the story of Montevero, the winery to share the story of this beautiful corner of Tusany that is perhaps less visited with international visitors, but an area that should be visited. And, of course, the story of this award winning line, the Montevero chardonnay. So thank you very much, and I hope you have a good season this year. The the conditions are not too extreme, and I'll look forward to tasting your wines on another occasion. Great. Thank you, and have a great day. It's been a pleasure for me. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here, or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian podcast dot com. Until next time.