Ep. 1944 Leonardo Bellaccini | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pots. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast, listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialties that pair naturally with their wines, and the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us. And I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we traveled to Tuscany, to the Chianti classico, and to San Feliche to meet my guest Leonardo Bellaccini. He was a winemaker and a state manager at this long standing and pioneering wine estate. Well, during Leonardo, we met yesterday at an online Degustazione, so it's a real pleasure to be able to carry on our conversations here and to share the story of San Felice with our Italian wine podcast listeners. How are you today? Very good. Good morning. First of all, good morning, Mark, and, thanks for this opportunity. I'm very well. Finally, the rain left is, is a few days that, is a classic tuscan weather. So sunny sunny, windy, So it's the perfect weather to start a new season, hoping that it's going very, very well until the harvest. Okay. Well, that's good to hear. It's been a strange year everywhere. It seems Yeah. Throughout Italy from people I've spoken to here in England. We've had the longest, rainiest winter. I've lived here for forty five years, and it's, I think, been the the most extreme, you know, with, like, in your experiencing crazy rain, not just rain, but very strong rain. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And very mild also. And this combination of high temperature and rain is really not good for the environment for the for the countries in general. Sure. Sure. I promise to be wise. Now leonardo, I want to give our listeners a visual impression of this very special place where you are. Now I have in my hand, a bottle of Borgo Kianti classical. And on the label, there is a map, the map of the border, San Felice. Can you describe where you are in this very special place? Well, now if you watch, the part just under the word. There is, a spot, a dark spot, a little square that represent the center. Okay. In the left part of the where the lee there is on top of the spot a lethal line still dark. I'm right there. That is the oldest part of the seller build in the eighteen hundred. And all the other part are built in two other steps apart in nineteen seventy one and the newest part in nineteen eighty two. So these represent the Sunfelicia seller in Canti Classic. And is where I am now. Okay. And just to describe it visually, tell us, you're you're at an altitude of four hundred meters above sea level. So quite high. And this map, when would that date from? It looks like it's a very old map. And it's a a cluster of buildings to form a self contained borgo. Is that right? Yes. It's correct. Yes. Actually, it's a sort we call cabreo. When you put together the houses and some of the properties around. So this is a part of Cabreo that describe Borgosam Felicia with is dated back to the eighth century. So the part of the church and few houses around the church are more than thousand years old. The rest of the village is, built in the century later. Actually, the building of today are built in the seventeen seventeen hundred. So they are three hundred years old now. The village has been restored thirty, thirty five years ago and, transform step by step in a five star hotel. Today, we have a sixty room and two restaurants and is part of militia too surrounded by vineyards and with our seller on top. Okay. Well, that's giving a really good description and also an indication of This unique environment where wine has been produced for at least a thousand years. But tell us the story of San Felice and the wine estate that you are now involved with. When did San Felice begin as a wine estate? Well, as you as you said, the area start to produce wine really many, many years ago, more than two thousand years ago. Actually, close to our vineyards, we founded twenty years ago, we founded and a truce can ruin with a two a tomb with with a two skeleton and some vase and some inscription. So definitely the the wine production go back to really the very, very old. But coming soon to the Sunfelicia of today is a relatively young producer started in nineteen sixty eight. In sixty seven, the property was sold by the family to the, the actual owner to a company. And, so the company start to invest, remain, replant all the vineyards, and also building, as I said before, building a bigger seller, there's some militia of today with a property of six hundred hectares of which one hundred and fifty are planted in vineyards. And fifteen thousand olive trees. So our two production, primarily wine and, also extra virgin olive oil. Okay. That's really interesting. And I'm just thinking that nineteen sixty eight. We would have been talking at Leonardo about the moment the significant moment in Italy and particularly in Tuscany when the was finished. Exactly. So was that a time of great change and great opportunity as well? Yes. Yes. Because naturally at that time, all the young generation, the son of the Mitsadri left the countryside moving to the city to have a better life. Because if you come in San Felicia today or in any other properties in county, It's difficult for young people realized that just fifty or sixty years ago was a totally different word. In terms of landscape, it doesn't change. Is the same beauty sixty years ago and and today. But in terms of, accommodation, the all the houses were without eating often also they don't have inside restroom. They have the restroom outside in a different building. So it's it's really a dramatic change. And so when the medsadria stop, many winery, many big farm remain without labor. And so they collapse. And many of them have been sold and, started a new era for, for the region because naturally at that time, need a big investment. Each producer, each farm need a big investment. So the company put a lot of money, and now we see the result. So, all all the producer have beautiful seller, very efficient, the vineyards are well kept, but it's hard to understand what it was. I remember when I arrived in San Felicia, the house where now there is the reception, some of the house were still house of a farmer and, downstairs where now there is the reception used to be the cows and the sheep and the pork. So it was a sort of a little table and the family used to live upstairs. So it was totally different. But from outside, we didn't change a corner. We didn't change a rock. So we we restore inside, but the view is totally the same. That what it was. Okay. That's a really, really good overview of this significant moment when this form of sharecropping, which had lasted for more than eight hundred years, came to an end in the sixties. And when you say Leonardo, that the country's the beauty of the countryside is the same. Yes. The hills and the beauty in this incredible landscape. But in a sense, the landscape changed when The form of cultivation went from the the promiscuous cultivation under the Medzadria to more specialized Yeah. Viticulture and olives as well. San Felice was that the forefront of that, I guess we could call it a revolution in transforming not just a landscape, but a way of thinking and a way of approaching wine. No. You are correct. It it changed from from school to specialized with the culture. It changed a bit, but, I wanna be sure that, people understand that, especially this part of Tuscany, south part of Tuscany, also in the major population. You can talk about Canti Classic or you can talk about Bruno or any other vineyards still represent not more than fifteen percent of the total land. So compare other region where the operation really took over all the land. We still have a lot of wood. For instance, in San Felicia, more than fifty percent is still wood. And then there is olive trees. It's not only vineyards. It's true. Now they they are specialized vineyards, but, we still a lot of biodiversity attention to the environment is is very strong in in Tuscany. Actually, that's a very, very good point that, as you say, the the amount of of land that is still given over to the wild woods and to other crops as well. And the importance of sustainability. Can we turn to that before we discuss your wines? Can we talk about some of the farming practices and the importance, you know, sustainability and the regenerative approach? That you are following? Yes. For us, it's very important. Take care of the environment. Not only because we wanna preserve, but also because we think that is a good answer to the global warming. He's isn't we can see this global change of, temperature and how the rainfall are distributed during the year. An opportunity. So to to to to have this opportunity, naturally, we need to manage the soil in a very carefully way trying to preserve all the organic substance using cover crop that has a lot of volume of roots in the soil. Helping us to maintain the the soil very well aerated because naturally, often we when we watch vineyards or tree in general, we watch the upper part. We never think about that what we see is just off of the plant, after the vine or or or of the tree. But another very important part is underground. So is the roots system. An healthy vineers, an healthy vine can be healthy and performing only if they have an healthy root system. Healthy root means, often we talk about drought. So it's important to have a water, but often we forgotten that is also important to have oxygen in the soil. So, what we are trying to do is reduce the compression of the soil and this, the cover crop with, some specific kind of, herbs, grass, help us to maintain this kind of vibration. With the hair on top of the soil, the roots can go deeper because, if the soil is without hair, they look for hair and the hair is up there. So they they come. They don't go deep. They come up. They have to go deep looking for water, but to go deep, they need oxygen in the soil. I don't know if I'm able to explain in English. It's a little complicated No. No. It's it's clear and it's important. And I think it's interesting to consider how since you've been at San Felice, how awareness and perception has changed, because I guess when you began organic farming, was really not very common in the Chianti classico. And now, you know, when I've been speaking with the consortium, I think something like sixty percent of Yeah. The wine estates in the consortium are adapting organic, even if not certified, or sustainable, and regenerative practices. So it's become a much more fundamental way of both producing better wines and also dealing with the effects of climate change? Yes. You're totally right. You're totally right. Today today is becoming really a master kind of, thinking, that is very spread around. Also, I I I spoke with many, many friends, producer, also the ones that are not yet that they are really thinking to converting. So I would say in few years, probably ninety percent of the candy classical will be converted in organic. Wow. That's amazing. That's incredible to think. And I remember going back into the ADs, I think. Well, at that time, no. Nobody knows. No. Yes. Yes. I remember very well. Lenardo, let's just speak about a few of the wines that I had the opportunity to taste because I love the wines you're making. There's a real purity and style to them that was very clear in the tasting yesterday. But let's begin with this wine I've already mentioned, borgo Cianti classico. You say that this wine embodies the soul of San Felice. What do you mean by that? Well, it means that, twenty five years ago, at the end of 90s, we decided to plant some vineyards in some really specific soil with good exposure, high density. I know that today, high density, have lost, part of his, focus and importance. But naturally, end of nineties, nobody were thinking to global warming. So I planted, approximately twenty actors around the village with nine thousand vines per hectare. It'll be Bordeaux style one point four per eighty five. And the concept, the idea at the time was to make a sort of a chateau some finishes. Also because also in the past, the the castle in the area, the big property used to give, the closest and better soil vineyard to family of, mezzadri or farmer that they were very close to the family. So the more loyalty, the more, longer time living in the same house. So we try to build this connection between land and properties. Then naturally, the project takes time to become reality because naturally to produce a great wine it need approximately ten years before the the vines become mature enough. You know, sometimes, the company would change, the staff. But at the end, with the Carlo de Biasi, when the Carlo arrived, a couple of years ago. I submitted this concept and we arrived to this, result, which is a wine that really is, projected since the beginning, planting vineyards and growing the vineyards. And then in the cellar, with a specific, way to really represent, first of all, naturally a true key anti classical. When I say true, I don't wanna be misunderstood, but true in the sense that, using only indigenous San Jose with just the touch of Punitelo, and then, like the tradition used to be only big cast, ten thousand liters. So when I say bigger, they are really big. So the wood influence is really zero. Trying to have a very clean fermentation to make that any half flavor due to fermentation can spoil a little bit of wine. We started with a beautiful vintage twenty twenty two. Unfortunately, the yield has been ridiculous, dramatically low. But the quality of the twenty two vintage has been very, very great, outstanding. So we started producing these sixty thousand bottles, and this is the result. It's a beautiful wine. I really really enjoyed it. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. It's not a grape one encounters very often. Tell us a little bit about this grape and what it adds to the San Jose. Just few words also about how and when it arrived in San Felicia. Some Felicia used to deal with the university seen the early eighties. And some organti that used to be the, manager at the time that hired me at some Felicia realized that Italy in terms of winery, in terms of, vinification, was already at the time, very well updated. We have a good technology. We have knowledge. But in the other hand, we have to fill it up a a big gap compare other part of other region in the world in the vineyards because the vineyards planted in the fifties or sixties were planted with a quantity philosophy and not thinking really to quality. So to to fill it up this gap, he decided to deal with the University of Florence primarily and, later also with the Pisa university just to make as less mistake we can in any new vineyards. So trying really to focus on on quality. So in the eighty six, University of Florence, come to some finish asking as a vineyards, a piece of land where to plant a huge number of indigenous varieties they collected. So we planted these vineyards more to make a favor to the university that for our as an hour idea. But then a few years later, at the end of eighties, when we saw the the bunches, I realized that, some of them could have a great quality potential. The quality potential at the time was decided by few indicator. First of all, I have a consistency in the ripeness at the harvest. Believe it or not in the eighties was the biggest issues in the vineyards just to have a good ripeness. So, second, a thick skin that usually means wine with a rich body and a lot of tannins, often also good color because at that time, the Sanjay that doesn't write well was also lacking in color. So I choose thirty of them of this huge number more than a hundred and sixty red varieties. And I I I I did, micro verification. From this micro verification, Punitello soon come out with a strong personality, dark color, lot of tannins, but smoothie, And, so I in nine early nineties, in ninety three, I grafted thousand vines just to see if, with the aging in wood, this character would be maintained. So in ninety five, I produced the first three barrels. And, with the aging in barrels, the result was even more intriguing and interesting. So we start to plant and, since, the vintage two thousand three, we start to produce a hundred percent ponytello. And then later, became after SanJobese, became the most planted varieties in San Felicia. So it's a sort of signature varieties for us because, I still have the hundred percent and I keep it as a sort of witness of this long research program, but, I have enough to use in different blends. So I have here in the Bordeaux, but I also have a little b in a one of the Grand Salizione and I also use in the Figorello, our historical Supertaskan just to to give not only the Tus blood in the wine, but also the San Felice print in the winemaking style and philosophy. Okay. That's fascinating. And I think what's, particularly interesting to me and to our listeners is how the excellence and equality in Italian wines and in San Felice wines has come both from a research of ancient varieties, indigenous varieties that without that careful research would have been lost. That grape may have been lost. I think you said yesterday that it's not a very productive grape. It yields very little. And so you can see why during the time of the when quantity was the aim rather than quality. A vine like Puutella would have been grubbed up and replaced with a more productive variety. And so to actually have that care in propagating and caring and and tearing out these experiments is, a really interesting story in itself. And I think we taste that in the wines. I think the Punaatello was in all the wines we tasted yesterday. And indeed, as you mentioned, in vigoralo. Now, we don't have a huge amount of time. So I would like to just talk about two more wines, and then we'll turn to the, which is a wonderful story too. But let's first of all talk about Then a few words about Vigoralo, one of the historic Supertuscans, which we must mention. I last tasted it at Van Italy this year at a master class of Supertuscan wines. So which again is a chianti classico, but the top of the pyramid, a gran Salazione. Tell us about this wine. Well, this wine, is a single vineyard production. Is a vineyard really, selected, because the combination of, soil and, exposure, and all the character that a vineyard's need to produce, quality grapes were there. So we decided to also put our salt, so being more careful in all the different decision from the pruning to the canopy management to the harvest. As you know, the the harvest is always a key moment because, any fruit trees and the vine is at the end is a fruit trees, doesn't produce all the fruit at the same quality. If you go eat cherry by trees, you don't pick blind you watch the the cherry that you have to pick to for eating, you know, because there are part of the cherry that are still half green, part of the cherry that are override, and you wanna it, the only the best, you know, the grape is totally the same. So at the harvest, we do a double selection, a selection at the vineyards, but we realized that wasn't enough. So since twenty fifteen, we also do a second selection at the seller with, an optical sorter that, remove both the override and the not well ripe battery. So the second step of sorting is done by Berry. At the vineyards is done by bunches. And then at the at the seller by Berry trying to be sure that only the best of the best grade is dedicated to this wine. And then until the end, until until the final blend if, when me and Franchesca, which is my colleague, younger, winemaker involved, if we are not sure in, some of the barrels, they are put aside and only the best really great person, the best bottles then are in the final blend of the Pogurosso wine. Okay. So this really is the top expression of Chanti classical from San Felice in every respect from the single vineyard, a hundred percent Sanjuveza now. Is that correct? Yes. Since twenty eleven is hundred percent Sanjuveza. It it was born in seventy eight San Jose and Colorado. Then, from two thousand and three to two thousand ten, I have had also a little part of Puitelo. And then from two twenty eleven I decided to when when the wine became a Grandcilizio from Reservea to Grand Salizio, I decided to do only only a hundred percent under it. So it really is the epidemy of Sanjay at San Felice. Beautiful wine. What I love about the wines that I tasted throughout was a beautiful freshness even with the the wines, the mature. There's a beautiful freshness and an elegance with tannins that are very, very fine and well knit. And, you know, we see this as they're aging, and as the wines evolve, and gain in complexity. So beautiful wines complimentary. Thank you. Thank you, Omar. Two words very briefly about Vigorada because this is an iconic wine, and we can't talk about San Felice without a mention. Yeah. Correct. This is, in Italian, we say the other face of the medal. I don't know if you understand what I mean, but, anyway, we go back again to the sixties. We go back again to the meds Adria. And we go back to a candy that at that time was the most, exported Italian wine in the world, but it was known as, an ordinary wine. For the reason that we said before because people at that time, the producer think more about quantity than quality. The most proud producer and some Felicia was the first, but just after some Felicia, many, many other did the same. Because the problem at the time was the rules of the appalachian that doesn't allow to produce candy only with the sangiovese, only with the red grapes. So some Felicia decided in sixty eight to produce the first five thousand bottles of a hundred percent sangiovese. Producing some delicious. So producing candy classical. But, because it doesn't have the white grapes, it couldn't be called candy. So we have to call at the time table wine that, by the way, it was the base of the pyramid of the quality. So the the lower level, but was the most expensive wine of the wine list of the producer of the Sunfelicia. So was quite complicated. Let people understand why a table wine was so expensive. And the only way was let people taste. So the wine really succeed not only Vigorello, but I mean, also the category succeed. And, in few years, I would say in the eighties, almost every producer from Canti start to produce, a wine from, red grapes. Mostly from San Giovanni, someone start to use a blend with, also international varieties like like Cabernet. This category wine really made the Italian or the Tusstan, winemaking renaissance. In the nineties, the task and wine became really the top of the quality, and the Gurello is, has been really the, forefront of this category. And, is still today we are talk about a lot of, about the appalachian, about Canticlassical because naturally, thanks to this category, also the appalachian gain image and in, position it in the market. So they really did a great, great job for, for the Appalachian wine, for the Italian wine, and, and Vigorello really is I I say the other side of the medal because naturally, I I I couldn't say that is the wine that represents some felicia, but definitely is one of the wide that, represent some Felicia philosophy, some Felicia history in winemaking, and, is one of our outstanding brand in the wine production. Yes. And I think it's it's very important. The story you've just told there from the beginning of how the so called super vini Datta Valades, super table wines, which became known as the Supertuscans, how they encouraged and lifted Keanty Chasico as a as an appellation. And with the changes in rules, with the white grapes no longer needing to be used with The San Gervais and Pouretza could wines could be made. Canti Classicico has just gone up and up very top level, alongside these iconic Supertuscan wines. And San Felice, as you say, was a pioneer. Now another instance that San Felice is a pioneer is in the field of wine hospitality. The Borgo San Felice, this relishateau, luxury complex that you described at the beginning was one of the earliest wine resorts. If not the earliest, I'm not sure about that. I think the earliest in in Tuscany, yes. You're right. I I recall visiting in it must have been leonardo. It must have been the late eighties or early nine Ear early nineties. Yes. We started we started in nineteen nineties. Nineteen ninety. That's right. And we are we are part of Chateau in, since ninety five. Okay. You know, it's, again, interesting for our listeners. Wine tourism in nineteen ninety didn't exist really anywhere in Italy. I wrote a book called The Wine Roads of Italy that was taking people into the wine country, but then it was very much, you know, you knocked on somebody's door. And if they were not too busy, they would show you and you could taste the wines, even at famous places, famous wine estates. The concept of wine tourism is now so important, and the wine resort at Porgos San Felice has really been at the forefront. Tell us about what Borgos San Felice offers. Well, it it offer three hundred and sixty degrees experience from, the environment, bike tour, arts, C and Florence are the major city close by, but also some small beautiful village, both in Canti, like, Radasano, and Grave, approximately half an hour by car, but also going out of Canti, I said, again, the south part of Tuscany is really amazing in terms of arts, jewels, like a Pienza, like a Cortona, like the Val Dorcha, which is a UNESCO heritage, Montalcino is still forty minutes from here, is a really a great opportunity to see around. And naturally taking the opportunity also to experience the wines from San Felicia. The guest can, visit our seller, taste the wine both in the cellar, but we have also some, fancy offers. We have a little, tiny farmhouse, sort of, and you say, Caban? You understand? Caban? Yep. I think so. Yeah. Almost a hot. Yeah. Each Medzadro used to have a little tiny room in the middle of the vineyards where they used to keep, the tools, and they keep, something to it, and they recover if they have a little storm, a little rain. And so we we also, restore one of them just between, San Felice and the Poggirosa vineyards. And, we can offer a tasting in the middle of the vineyards. We can really offer several opportunity, but also visiting other beautiful winery around us. We have a beautiful neighbors that offer other experience. So is a really a a great opportunity to understand the Canti style life, the Canti philosophy, and the Canti wine. And, of course, the Cuchina of the Cantijana. Yes. Sorry. I forgot them to mention, but, yes. Tell us about the two restaurants briefly. Yes. We have, anosteria and a more fine dining poggiroso restaurant, which is a Michelin Star restaurant. So we have the two kind of cuisine, one more traditional and one more refined, fancy food. People can enjoy both, and they also can enjoy just a little snack during the tasting straight away in the cellar with a summer Breschetta and a Pane Salame or Pecorino. So we really offer different, different way and different opportunity to enjoy the vacation, the holidays in, in this really amazing place. And I say amazing because I'm not only working here since more than forty years, but I really live here. I was born and raised in Siena And, the other amazing things is, from Santa is twenty minutes away. But when I was a young guys, I didn't know Kantya. I didn't know the area. The the area was, hide in, in, in the countryside. The roads were back road, not as faulted as well. So coming here was a sort of, really a sort of trip, you know, when in, in the seventies. But, when I start to work here, I realized that, was a great opportunity. So since nineteen ninety, I live in the property, it is really a dream. I I I feel very, very lucky to have this opportunity also because is a working distance from my house. I I don't feel that I come to work. To me, it's, it's my life. So it's, I I'm not working. Oh, that's a beautiful thing to say. And to, to be able to have seen this transformation to have been part of this transformation over the past forty years into this wonderful, Borgos San Felice, that is such a self contained area. Leonardo, it's been a great pleasure talking to you hearing your story, the story of San Felice going back two thousand years to when etruscans were growing vines and making wine on the same land to now and to how things are changing even today with the different challenges. Thank you so much for sharing your story with our listeners, who are located all around the world, and I'm sure many will try to find their way to San Felice. And I look forward to meeting you there myself. So thank you very much. Mark. Thank you. It's been a really a nice and great time, to spend with you. But, more than that, I would like to invite naturally you, but also the listener if anybody have the opportunity to travel to Tuscany come to visit us if you wanna stay overnight or just for a tasting wine tour, contact us and, enjoy the the candy wine. Thank you, Mark. Thanks. We hope you enjoy today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here, or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time.