Ep. 2086 Non-Alcohol Wine Trends with Jeremy Hart Pt. 3 | Masterclass US Wine Market with Juliana Colangelo

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And Walmatikazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineetri dot com. Welcome to Masterclass US Market me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned to sharpen your principles, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market. Today, I am thrilled to welcome back to the Italian wine podcast Jeremy Hart for part three of our three part series on on premise trends in Italian wine in the US market with Jeremy and his data from Psalm dot ai. Welcome back to the show again, Jeremy. We've made it to part three. Awesome. Pleasure for us to do that. Of course. Of course. So for our third interview and the last, interview in this three part series, we're gonna talk about a topic everyone loves to hate in our industry, but it's very important to address non alcoholic wines. I actually saw a headline earlier this week, and fortunate that the non alcoholic market is now valued at five hundred and sixty five million dollars. So clearly, it's a category that's not going away that we need to understand and pay attention to, including in restaurants in the US market. So, Jeremy, as we get started, tell us a little bit more about the methodology of measuring non alcoholic wines through somda AI because, obviously, you're traditionally known for calculating wine placements. So talk to us just a bit about how you are measuring non alcoholic wine in the US market. And in restaurants. Yeah. So we target menus and in the process of targeting menus. We typically use AI to focus on brand skews. We have an archive and our, a big database to understand it. Like, if it's this wine, that we identify could be anything from like calm or low and nap or where wherever it might be, right, to know all the attributes of those things. So that's traditionally how we chop up information. We also have an ability to do text search. Right? So we can one track non alcoholic brands, whether they be wine brands or spirit brands. And then we can also do text search. So if we wanna look at non alcoholic or non alcoholic or mocktail or any of those kind of things that you might find on the menu to indicate that they're non alcoholic we can try those as well. Oh, very cool. So, obviously, this is becoming a lot more statistically significant these trends and categories. So, you know, for today's episode and part three of our series, Jeremy, our three key takeaways are number one. What is happening in non alcoholic wine in US restaurants. What are we seeing in this space? So just where where is the category today? Number two, are there any regional pockets or areas of growth in non alcoholic wine in the US market? And finally, what does the future look like? Let's look at our crystal ball and try to make some predictions of future of the non alcoholic wine and beverage category. So for starters, tell us a little bit about the growth we're here in August twenty twenty four. What's been going on the last few years in the non alcoholic category in restaurants in the US market? Yeah. So if we go back and, like, let's say, you know, thirty months ago, basically, the beginning of twenty twenty two. So for non alcoholic on a wine list, there's about three hundred and fifty accounts that would list that on their menu and about the same amount of placements. So essentially every place that was listing it, they were listing over the one. Right? They weren't doing multiple placements with it. You jumped to today and we're looking at about, sixteen hundred to eighteen hundred accounts are listing it with about twenty two hundred to twenty four hundred placements. Okay. For non alcoholic, and that's on a wine list. If you wanna look at that as far as a growth number, you're about two hundred and thirty seven percent increase for non alp in the last two and a half years. So substantial. Right? Wow. Extremely substantial. Absolutely. And are you seeing that growth more in terms of mocktails, beer, wine? Are you breaking it down by category? Or We can do both and we do both. Traditionally, I look at my menus and spirits menus kinda separate. We have two platforms for each. And so the one which I chopped this up was first looking at at wine menus. So targeting across wine menus, we're talking about fifty thousand accounts. Right? On the spirits menus, we target more accounts for about fifty four thousand. The interesting thing was thirty months, you know, you're looking at basically beginning of twenty twenty two. As far as mocktails, there was about a hundred and eighty nine accounts listed mocktail on their on their menu. Okay? Today, there's about twenty one hundred. Wow. And so the growth in just mocktail is up eight hundred and sixty three per set in the last two and a half years. Incredible. Wow. So that's huge. It's huge. And besides that, there's there's basically about thirty two hundred placements. Right? So that means that every account, you can kinda say it's Karen, you know, about one point five. Right? So, like, basically most accounts either probably kinda mentioned two. Right? So they're given options even in mocktail. It's not just like a one little standalone thing that they'll list. Right? And same thing with a non alcoholic and non alcoholic, you know, within those categories, we're looking at almost four thousand accounts on spirits being used with about sixty seven hundred placements. So it's a very real category. People really need to pay attention. And the big thing is with all of this to me, I I still want booze to do well. I want the category of booze to do well. Oh, of course. Mhmm. That's fine too. They're still buying something. Right? And these have become really nice profit centers for accounts. You know, they they can get great profits on these things. So I I think getting behind it is totally fine. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's also, you know, you have to think about an occasion in which people are drinking it on alcoholic. Right? You know, I I did it in every year earlier this year with NRA Cheola, aimeanetto, when they launched learn an alcoholic, Mianetto Persecco. And what we spoke a lot about was occasion based drinking. I might, on Monday and Tuesday say I'm not drinking alcohol because the beginning of the week, and I wanna be clear headed. I've got a lot to do at work. So I will spend ten or twelve dollars on a non alcoholic beer or mocktail at a restaurant as opposed to zero dollars on a glass of water. Right? It's still increasing the bottom line for that restaurant because it's money that maybe wouldn't have been spent otherwise. And at the same time, my guests or who I'm at the table with put order a glass of wine. So I think that, you know, just because you're offering mocktails or non alcoholic, doesn't necessarily mean it's haking away from your alcohol sales, but I think it's just bringing more people to the table in a different way and ultimately for the restaurant, likely increasing your check average. Yeah. I I think it's a really smart play for restaurants to get behind. You know, I think, you know, this is I don't know when this would happen, but it would be really interesting to go to a non alcoholic wine dinner. Mhmm. Right? Like, who knows? You know, if people are there for whatever it might be, food, whatever, know, that might not be a priority to them, but having something in front of them to make them feel more comfortable. And you can make great money on it. Why wouldn't you do it? Absolutely. For sure. So, Jeremy, let's talk a little bit more about where we're seeing those incredible growth. Are you is there any pockets or cities where this is most pronounced or is you really just seeing it nationwide? Talk to us a little bit of more about the data. Alright. So as far as the cities that are doing it the most, obviously, Chicago, it's kind of the traditional ones you see. One of the ones that stood out. We we did this in the last one too is Portland. Portland just seems to be a troublemaker. It's so unusual to me. Dallas is very much in the mix. Yeah. Texas really has kinda gotten behind it. I'm based here so I see it. Sacramento is very much player in the category for the size of what they do. I think it's impressive. Boston's in there, which is very surprised. That's what it was. It's like if you see New Orleans in the top twenty, you're like, what's going on, you know, and then even Vegas is even playing in here. So it's also the places that you know, are historically famous for drinking, you know. New Orleans. Yeah. That does sound that is surprising because, you know, the reputation of that market, for those of our listeners who have a bench in Orleans, it's a very boozy city, lots of partying, ardi gras, etcetera. So to hear that that market's on the rise for non alcoholic is interesting. And I think speaks to the point we were making earlier that, you know, it's about bringing more people to the table and and there's plenty of people out there that might be going on about a third party or going to a wedding that don't drink because they're pregnant or they stop drinking or whatever other reason, but they're still out there socializing and looking for a way to partake in in the occasion. Yeah. And I think that like wellness has gone up. Right? Another thing that, you know, is I'm not gonna find in my data, but I can probably contribute it to it is and I don't know if this is even gonna, you know, occur to Italians at all, but, Ozempic. You know, you can't drink on a Zempic, and that's like the new diet set up in there. If you can't drink on a Zempic, good to know. Yeah. So I think that that's kind of an interesting thing. I'm sure it's I'm sure that has to be a reason for some of And so as as popular it is now to to people who uses them picking America. And so I used to be wary of these trends. I'm not so much anymore. You know, I I know that drinking's here to stay, so I I I don't I don't worry about that as much, but Drinking's here to stay. We hear you here first. It's here to stay. Yeah. I I agree with you. I think, you know, it's a resilient industry. It's gone through lots of ups and downs. I I don't know that I'd called on about how, like, a trend anymore. I think we're seeing some real lasting power. In the category, but at the same time, I don't think it's taking away necessarily from alcohol. I think it's, again, it's bringing more people to the table in a different way. Yeah. And I think that's that's that's the next piece. Right? Or is to get the people that were the never drinkers. Right? Because if you like wine without alcohol wanted, I'm sure what you taste to something very complex. You know, it's it's it's a nice little gateway to get get them there eventually. So That's a great point, Jeremy. I mean, we can look at nonalcoholics as gateway products or on ramp products for consumers and introducing them to the space. Are you seeing any products out there or any placements that you think are particularly interesting for the Italian wine category? I need to dig into that a little bit more. Most of the time when I look at the non alcoholic stuff, the rise of non alcoholic per second, I think is gonna be massive. It fits the bill. There's been a whole category that has done extremely well with sparkling apple juice. Right? So, like, if someone can get something that actually had taste nice. And and it's something that they're used to flavor profile wise. I think that they're really I think that's gonna I think it's gonna go very, very well. I'm I'm curious to see, you know, on on how much people lean into it. But, you know, we'll we'll see where it goes. But, I think sparkling's gonna be key for non alcoholic at least in the beginning. I think that's a really relevant prediction, especially you know, sparkling wine is so occasion driven, right, and we're talking about occasions in which people, are are getting together for parties and celebrations, etcetera. So having that non alcoholic option and replacing the Martinelli's, I think, is is for sure, a good opportunity. You know, it was something really wild and this is, outside of data, but just something I noticed last year in the US was I was at Target of all places and there was end caps you know, the month of December and, definitely the week before New Year's Eve of non alcoholic, you know, and they had it from seltzers to wine to Wow. In caps in in a major grocer of, you know, oddball merchandise from clothing to everything. You know, it's not even just a grocery store. So it was just it shot me because I never thought I would see that in the US as prevalent as a to give that price face to that. You know, and I was just like, wow, that's real. That's very real. So, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Definitely. Super super real. So any other thoughts based on the data that that you're seeing about the non alcoholic category for restaurants? Do you predict any trends or movements in in the space based on what you're seeing in the data from Sound dot ai? I think just continued growth, you know. I think that there's a whole generation behind this that likes to see it. They're not afraid of new things, aiming towards them. I think that this is gonna be pretty well embraced. And I think wellness is not gonna weigh either in the US. I think people really got a nice little vibe going right now as far as, you know, a new way of living, you know, and this definitely caters to that. So Yeah. Absolutely. Maybe it was ethics going away, but wellness is not. We can hope at least. Yeah. Well, Jeremy, thank you so much again for joining me on this three part series. Talking about Italian wine and non alcoholic wine in the on premise of the US market. We learned so much throughout the series as we always do from you. So thank you for being so generous. Do you wanna talk to the listeners just a little bit more as we conclude the series, about some dot ai and and how they can get in touch with you and how they can potentially work with you as well. Yeah. Certainly. So find me on LinkedIn, Jeremy Hart, you'll see me on there. You'll see a lot of data and little cut out pieces of things I'm finding in in the data I always like to talk about on there. But, yeah, reach out. I'd love to work with everybody. We we have non alcoholic customers, to importers, to wholesalers, to spirit companies, to major companies, you name it. We help everybody. So Yeah. I know firsthand I have been working with you Jeremy recently, and and I have to say I never met someone in your partner that responds quicker than Jeremy does when you needed a data pull. So, it pretty remarkable. And talk to us, you know, a little bit about how it works. Is it a monthly subscription? I mean, how how does your data set up? Yeah. So we were monthly subscription for our clients. It varies upon the size of the company. We have some kind of standard pricing, but we don't cap seat. So we basically we won't have all you can eat, you know. And so we we cater to that to the size of the company. And so unlimited training, we also do all kinds of specialty reports as you as you know, like, I love it when I get questions like I geek out. Wanna know what people are thinking and if someone wants to do some oddball thing and you know look at something it's to me it's incredibly interesting and the really funny thing is from my point of view I get to see when a lot of companies think the same at the same time. Two and a half years ago, I got request from, like, I think four different companies that all wanted to know the the market for Oregon Chardonnay in, like, three weeks. Like, all all of the good at the same time. You're on top of trends. Yeah. That's all. This is so cool. Anything right now, people are asking for that it's been kinda surprising. The big thing that everyone's trying to correlate right now and this is, you know, that I've had it from a few companies is everyone's trying to understand. Is there any correlation with pricing to to to dips in growth for wine? Right? Because, like, right now, woman's been somewhat down. Right? But spirits are up. And so, you know, one of the really cool reports I did the other day was correlating between buy the glass and cocktail pricing over time. You know what I mean? To see if one of them a jump ahead of the other one, if that was the reason why people reached for the other. And so those kinds of things are super duper interesting and and they're actually exactly on par. And so that was That was it was all all of them were within like a five cent to ten cent range over time. But that's the kind of stuff we can see with data. So, like, we did one on spritz the other day with you. Yeah. So, like, there's there's all kinds of cool stuff that you can see with this stuff. You know, what's going on with it? What's popular? And I never really knew the value of what that was because when you're on the streets as a salesperson, you see it firsthand. So, like, you don't really kind of truly understand it, but also your world as big as your account base. Right? When you look at a Matler across the US or by city or whatever, it gets really, really interesting. You know, because you can see how trends pop here and then they go there and so on and so forth. So yeah, I love it. I truly love it. Yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you again, Jeremy, for being here with us on the time wine podcast. Again, we really appreciate it. And it was so much fun doing this three part series with you, and we'll have to do it again soon. The data is always changing. So make sure we do this again. Sooner rather than later. Alright. Thank you. Thanks, Jeremy. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. I remember if you enjoyed today's show, Hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.