Ep. 2141 McKenna Cassidy interviews Elyse Wilson | The Next Generation

The Japanese, one of their just cultural things is pride and, like, taking pride in what they do and perfection of making the best quality thing that they can. So something I've noticed that's very interesting with the Japanese wine world is they're exploring using table grapes, premium quality table grapes, but a lot of the winemakers are not necessarily working with Vida Spinephra, and yet they're still coming out with these really beautiful wines. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This is the next generation with me, Mackenzie. For the next episode, I invite you to explore with me what young adults are up to in the Italian wine scene. Let's feast on our discussion of Italian wine and co or grab a glass with us. Well, welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Canon. I'm here with Alisa Wilson, and we're so grateful to have her today. She is the sommelier at Camarada Houston, which many of you I know are fans of. So welcome, Elise. We're very grateful to have you. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm excited to be here and, you know, chat a little bit with you. No. Would you be so kind as to just introduce yourself briefly and tell us about your background in wine? So I am here in Houston, Texas born and raised. I left for a few years, but ended up back here. And I actually just turned thirty six last week. So, you know, mentally, I'm still in my, you know, twenties, but happy birthday. That's beautiful. Thank you. And then, yeah, I, actually, actually started my wine career, by going to culinary school. I was a chef for a little over a decade before I switched into the wine world, but my first kind of like dip into it was, the course that they require at the culinary school as part of the degree program. And so, you know, when I did have to make a career change, I had already kind of ignited that passion and, you know, wine and food go hand in hand. So it just seems like a good transition for me. That's fabulous. And you're originally from Houston. Yeah. Sugarland technically, but, you know, Houston's quite large, lots of suburbs. Wow. Amazing. And so you were in culinary school, you said, and then you learned about the wine. Is that what kind of led you into working at Oopy and Houston? So, Ouchi was something that I went into, because of the opportunity to work with such a fabulous restaurant group that puts their standards, you know, having come from a culinary background, just being able to work for a restaurant that really prides themselves on creating amazing food and doing such a unique concept, was kind of the draw going into Uchi. I just wanted to work for a place that I was felt passionate that, you know, cared as much as I do about this industry. And Houston's was just the kind of after I left culinary school, I went to Miami to go to hospitality restaurant management school. And I started with Houston's, just to get exposure to front of the house as part of that degree because you're required to work in the industry for the hospitality restaurant management degree. So both just amazing companies that are, you know, very well known for their training standards and kind of consistency. So I was just after trying to make sure that, you know, again, I was working for places that felt as passionate about food and wine and sake for that sake, as I do. Yes. You are a certified sake professional as well. Right? I am, you know, after starting with Ucci, and already having done my certified Salmoye and my w set three, it just seemed pretty natural not being super familiar with Saki at the time to kind of dive in, and I fell in love with it and ended up going to Japan and spending a whole bunch of time and money to go get the ASP certification, which is basically the level two and currently the highest level that John Gautner who's my sake mentor offers. Fantastic. Yeah. Advanced sake professionals, ASP, I believe. And were you exploring the wine scene as well, or you were really just honing your sake knowledge? Did you notice any thing with the wine industry there or mostly to sake? So when I went to Japan, it's a five day class for the certification. So we were going pretty much nonstop the whole time plus the travel time. So I didn't give it a whole bunch of time outside of the course to really score as much as I would have liked. I also, my flight got back from Japan, like, four days before all international travel shutdown, worldwide for the pandemic. So it was kind of a weird, weird time to be there. Like, when I was walking around Tokyo, There was, like, no one out in the streets, like, ghost town. Oh, which, you know, thinking of Tokyo was, like, New York City. It was, like, what is happening? It's wild. So, wow. The fact that you saw that live is amazing. It was very strange. But, so I didn't get to explore too much of the wine, while I was there since I was deeply enthralled in the certification program at the time. But I have been working with some Japanese wines, here at Kamorada. One of our things is kinda specializing in obscure grapes, obscure regions. And, you know, the Japanese, one of their just cultural things as pride and, like, taking pride in what they do and perfection of making the best quality thing that they can. So something I've noticed that's very interesting with the Japanese wine world is they're exploring using table grapes, premium quality table grapes, but a lot of the winemakers are not necessarily working with Vitistinifera. And yet they're still coming out with these really beautiful wines. That's very interesting. Are the wines, like, different structurally because of the skins of table grapes? Or yeah. I mean, so the two that I've had in the bar, most recent recently, were both Japanese Rosets, but I will say, like, one of them, it was such a unique thing because the the aromatics of these table grapes are so intense and so, like, ripe so when you're, like, digging your nose into the glass, you're almost expecting, like, a little bit of sweetness from the Rosay that I was carrying because of the intensity of just the, like, sweet fruit on the nose, and then it was a fully dry wine. Yes. Kelly cotton candy, you know, kind of leads your nose into one or your brain into thinking it's gonna be one thing and, it was totally different on the palette. Yeah. A lot of wines are attractive to new friends of wine that can smells sweet. And so you kinda, like, get in there, but then the wine offers you a dry savory experience, and you're like, okay. This is highly attractive. But let's go there. So you what year did you start working with Cameron? So this a month ago was my three year anniversary. So That's wonderful. I know that making it one year in the restaurant scene is meaningful. So thirty years, obviously. I mean, in a particular location is pretty powerful. Story. And so what attracted you to Camrada and how did you kinda make that transition from the previous restaurant groups? I mean, I really, really loved Uchi, and, you know, it was very bitter sweet. To depart from them, but one of my friends who was running Cameron. Basically, I came by to see him one day. And he was like, hey, I'm, you know, having a baby with the wife and gonna go get a nine to five job. And I was just kinda like, well, oh my gosh. Who's taking over Camarada? And he was like, I don't know yet. And I just remember having this, like, sensation in my chest because This was basically, you know, as much as I love working with UTi in Houston's being able to really focus on the beverage side of things in terms of having time to study and create my own program and stuff. I was just like, Cameron sounds like a dream job, and I just remember feeling this, like, overwhelming sense of, like, well, can I apply? I mean, the job just sort of fell in my lap. And, again, it was a bittersweet thing because Ucci's such a great company to be a part of. And, you know, they taught me so much working for them. But, like I said, just being able to come and kind of do my own thing and put together my own wine program is something I've always really been passionate about. So That's so cool. It's awesome. So for those who haven't been to Cameron before, and I am hopeful to go one day as well, but they're based in it's Houston, Texas. They're a neighborhood wine bar, to focus on beverages that are unique, just like I said, and really speaking of, like, a sense of place in the person who made them. It's connected to Poly's, which is fine dining restaurant. Is that right? At least so Poly's is quality wise. Their food is, I would say, up there with fine dining. They make everything from scratch, but, they actually are, they've been around for twenty six years and are kind of the famous neighborhood spot with counter service. But everything from scratch really great quality. Oh, that's amazing. So what's your kind of approach to your beverage program and how are you balancing? Clearly, you're you have wines from all over the world. I know you just spent some time in Sealand and Australia. You have Japanese Rosays. We're here on the Italian wine podcast. So how so meta? Like, all the different things that you have. What's your approach and motivation? Is your goal to showcase as many regions as possible? Are you really trying to draw the consumer through an experience of something they've never had before, or do you balance both the familiar and the unique for them? How does that work? Yeah. I mean, it really is a balancing act because you know, you wanna be careful not to scare away people that maybe don't feel comfortable jumping into, you know, something they've never tried before. But, you know, I focus very heavily on small production, family owned, you know, put the people that put their blood sweat and tears, into it. So, a lot of people that come in that aren't familiar with us, they're definitely a little surprised when they don't recognize almost anything on the menu, but that's where it kinda fun comes in, we change our by the glass menu every single day, which is, incredibly unique, as well as a lot of a lot of work. Wow. Is it printed? Yeah. So we print our menus every day. For the buy the glass menu. So the sections for the buy the glass aren't, you know, quite as, like, vast as maybe some of the other wine bars, but it's because we're rotating the wines daily. And, you know, the the benefits of the program is we're never serving, you know, older wine. I'm never having to throw wine away because we basically sell the bottles that we opened yesterday for half off the next day at happy hour. So it's a really fun program, and there's always something unique to try. But, you know, when we're constructing that daily menu, and we're only offering maybe four or five glasses of white and eight or nine glasses of red per day, it's very much about, like, making sure to find that balance of, like, alright, maybe I don't have a pin on a wire specifically on the list today. But if a quinoa noir drinker comes in, what two or three options on the red wines will fill that, you know, a light and fruity red, a light and earthy red, and then maybe something, a little more traditional like, a high end glass of burgundy for those people that are looking for that. And then go into kind of the medium body, full body. And again, you know, part of the fun of the wine bar is when people come in looking for if it grape is kind of introducing them to something similar that goes into hand in hand with what they're maybe looking for, but maybe never heard of before. And nine out of ten times, we tend to win, but there's always, you know, There's always certain people that just don't love that they can't get their glasses chablis. Really dust when chablis is not available. There's plenty of other wine grapes that can have a conversation with chablis at the very least. And then being connected to Poly's, with Paul being, an Italian guy, and the owner of both Poly's and Cameron. We definitely have a very strong Italian wine program as well. So, we do have a fourteen page bottle list So it's not just the buy the glass list. And we definitely, you know, Italy is one of the coolest places to bring in some of the obscure grapes because, you know, there's over ten thousand grape varietals indigenous we always have a lot of fun bringing in some of the more obscure wines just of Italy. The listeners are now on the edge of their seats. We must know. Like, what are the obscure grip varieties that you're featuring maybe this month? So one of my personal favorite cause I'm a little biased. I'm a white wine drinker. We have timoroso, on the mini right now, which, a lot of people have never heard of, but, it's predominantly grown in Keymont Northern Italy, but there's several producers that have done it historically for just generations. And so some of those vines have been able to survive, but it's very small production, really beautiful white wine that can, you know, have the acidity of a riesling and then the body of, like, a burgundy. We had I had three of them last week. Perfect. I had three of them last week over the span of a couple days. Of course, Walter Masa, and Daytona, but then a few other smaller producers, and it was such a treat to, like, revisit the GraVID. It honestly tastes both familiar and exotic, like, all in one. A familiar meaning just, like, I have it every day all the time. It's delicious. Like, for anyone listening who hasn't had a tumor also in the last four weeks. Please find one and enjoy it because it deserves to be enjoyed. Yeah. It's great. I also can't remember the last time if ever that somebody's been like, oh, yeah. I had three in one week. I'm like, that's amazing. It's such a joy. That's so special. And then, like, what other maybe indigenous grape varieties might you be educating your clients with? So the other one I just got in, yesterday, but I brought in before LaCRima is more Southern Italy red grape varietal, but it's known for its intensity and power, but it's really for me kind of a fun grape because you don't see it historically. It was almost always used in blends. So you don't see it on its own a lot, but on its own with the producer that's putting in the energy to, you know, care for it, it can create these really beautiful, like, fruit forward style of really big, bold wines, which, you know, Italy historically is known for a lot of their more rustic styles. So it's kinda fun to find this grape that you really can kind of showcase almost a juicy yet fully tonic. Totally. What region, or is it from Latio or are you doing from Market for the La Karma? No. The La Crima is from, Latio, but I've had, you know, years ago, like I said, I I rotate the list so much. I've had different modelings of it. Poly's, obviously, has that counter service that you spoke highly of. What are the food options within camera at? Like, are people having bites? Are you doing full dinner? Like, what's the process? If people wanna come in and try a glass and then try a bite of something. Yeah. So we definitely have a ton of people that come get a wine from us to take to Pollies. We hate that it's like a one way street. We don't really let people bring food from collies into Camarada, but mostly the respect that, you know, let's say somebody decides to buy, like, the fifty dollar glass of Barolo I threw on the list for the night. Don't want somebody to come sit down next to them with, like, a big plate of food that's gonna, like, you know, take away from the beautiful nose of that very nice glass of wine they're trying to enjoy. But you can definitely come order something by the glass and, have a snack with us before, go out dinner at Poly's, come back for an after dinner drink. I love this. It looks like, yeah, like, bites and boards, but then Poly's definitely if you're looking for the full meal, but kinda these, like, Iberico ham, Marcona almonds, gochis, some snackies to go with your drinks at Camrada. I love that. Yeah. We definitely do a lot of charcuterie, boards and cheeses, and then the owner Paul, knowing my, you know, passion for food was very kind. He let me put, a few of my own recipes for snacks on the Cameraata menu. Is the key cannellini dip yours? Yes. So there's the lemon cannellini garlic dip, which is, the vegan and gluten free option, but it's tasty too. My staff joke is around that it's like Italian hummus, which you know Pretty awesome. But, yeah, it's, you know, it's anything that you put a hefty amount of roasted garlic puree and lemon zest into his you know. I have a question. Is there kind of a richer, deeper motivation to the constant, the constancy of change on your by the glass list? Is this to kind of constantly keep it one interesting for the regulars and everyone. But is there maybe a strategy in that constant change to stay continually updated with what's going on in the white team? To give longevity to the program as a whole at Cameron? Like, is it, like, the sustainability of the program is rooted in this constant change, or is it more just to have more fun in the moment? So it's definitely a little bit of both. So when I took over three years ago. You know, I really wanted to maintain the the traditions that had been set. Camarado was originally opened, eleven years ago by a now master, Samuel. David Keck So I feel very lucky to have, stepped into such, you know, big shoes. But that was just, you know, the original way that the program was set up by David, was to have the ever rotating wine list. And so with that being the way the whole program is structured. Like I said, with the way we do happy hour, I'm never having to throw away wine. Most wine programs have, you know, like, a spill percentage. It is, like, maybe once every two weeks that there's a glass of wine or a half glass, I have to toss because nobody bought it on happy hour or something. So it is really interesting in that. But because of the way it's structured, it kind of is like this, you know, revolving beast, that's based off of the structure. And so just budget wise and trying to make, you know, everybody happy to because in addition to, you know, the obscure grapes and obscure regions, we still have a lot of classic stuff. You know, I'm not just gonna box everybody out because as we talked about it earlier, it's the balancing act trying to keep everybody happy. But, of course, it doesn't always work out. You know, there's definitely people that get frustrated when they come in and they're like, I had this glass of wine here two weeks ago, and it was so amazing. Do you have it? I'm like, no, we definitely don't. And I'm sorry. So, you know, there's definitely, like, some some downfalls. But the goal is to hopefully then be like, well, if you love that wine, you should try this wine and we put something else in front of them, And, again, most of the time we end up winning, but there's definitely a little disappointment on occasion. You're inherently generating desire with every single change, and I think that's extremely impactful. That's so awesome. I do have another question from what you're seeing. You're clearly a global traveler and just came back from New Zealand and Australia. I've been in Japan everywhere. What are you seeing that perhaps wine from anywhere in the world? Producers are doing to engage the next generation of wine drinkers in and amongst the popularity of cocktails. What innovations are you seeing from wine producers that you might be willing to share as an innovation on either marketing of wine or the stylistic choices of wine to engage the next generation. Yeah. I mean, that's obviously so so many viewpoints that can go into that question and you know, in addition to the desire of cocktail programs, it's been pretty prevalent over the last couple years that the younger generation specifically is really moved to a lot of nonalcoholic options, which has really thrown a lot of, you know, wine predictions and sales goals and stuff kind of out of whack because I don't think that was something that was ever really anticipated, you know, five years ago that there was gonna be this non alcoholic kind of movement, especially with, you know, the younger, like, twenty one year old crowd. I think the biggest thing I see just right off the bat in my head is, you know, the the movement of There was obviously the natural wine movement that came in as, like, a way to create this funky new style of wines, which isn't really technically true since they were all the original style of wine making. But, you know, what I mean? Re read this. It's like bringing the bell bottoms back. You know? But I really what I've really noticed, about that, you know, the natural wine movement probably started anywhere. You know, the big push for it all was in the last, you know, eight to ten years or so. But over the last probably three or four years, a lot of these quote unquote natural funky wines. They've really just a lot of these producers have just figured out more effective ways to prevent, you know, bottle variation issues and day to day, bottle variation issues, and they're they're coming up with these cleaner styles of these refreshing kind of fun natural wines, which again, you know, that term is so broad and doesn't really have a legal definition. So it can be kind of confusing, but just having these wines that are minimal intervention and, you know, letting nature kinda do its work, but don't end up having a flawed final product, which in the nicest way possible, eight to ten years ago, the majority of the quote, unquote, natural wines were a lot of flawed wines. And I think the reason that came to mind is because, I've been watching this past year, our orange wine sales or skin contact wines which historically are from the Northern Italy area, and have been made for thousands of years, have apparently come back in a fashion. Our orange wing sales are up tremendously. I cannot tell you how many times a week. I have somebody that's like, what's orange wine by the glass. People are loving the orange wine skin contact white wines that have been in the market. And I think a lot of that is because they've gotten away from these, like, super pithy, super tanic styles where there's just such variation between, you know, the light maceration and the heavy ones, but they're a lot more cleaner and crisper refreshing styles of orange wine coming out. Yeah. It sounds like that authenticity by way of clarity, freshness, like, kind of the direction. So I think that that's really well said. Thank you so much for sharing that. Sadly, we're out of time. We have first, the the world learning about you and learning about camera, and I see that we have a bunch of mutual Instagram friends, which is super fun. Like, Danbetrosby, shout out, Kasopy shadow, France Haw, so it's gonna be pretty fun, to see the connections there, and I can't wait to hopefully meet your person's update. Yeah. Definitely reach out if you're ever coming to Houston. A thousand percent. Wanna thank you so much for your time and sharing your expertise with us, and cheers. Chincalute. Appreciate you taking the time to chat with me and, You know? Everybody go out and get those Italian Remados. Learn about that skin contact orange wine. That's right. Tante grazier. Thanks so much for being here with me today. Remember to catch our episodes weekly on the Italian wine podcast. Available everywhere you get your pods. Salud Day.