Ep. 2150 Matteo Ascheri of Cantine Ascheri | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

In Permanente, we have great wines, great cheeses, truffle, white truffle, but also we have a a great meat, the pigment is beef that is very lean and very low fat and very tender. So the result is that we eat a lot of raw meat, like, steak tartare, like, with carpaccio, and Sashiree Bryce. Fantastic. My favorite, wine with Sashiree Bryce, Dolchett. It's the one that we drink, you know, basically here every day. It's a simple one. It's a wine that you can drink without too much about. Fascinating people with stories to share, fabulous wines, and the best local foods to accompany them, and beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Minen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we traveled to Piedmont, to the lovely town of bra to meet my guest, Mateo Aschetti of Cantina Aschetti, a pioneering family wine estate known around the world for its classic wines from Leilenge, such as Dorceto, Barbera La Guelo, and of course Barolo, as well as an extensive range of wines from other Piedmont vineyards. I'm imagining Matteo that you're now joining me from maybe you're tasting room in the cellar or possibly upstairs in the office. Well, above directly above the winery is the Albergo Cantina Escetti. A really welcoming wine hotel that I've stayed at many times. And I'm thinking perhaps maybe I know it's a busy time, but at lunchtime, you might stroll across a courtyard to have lunch at your traditional family Osteria Morivaki. But I know that this is also such a busy time of year, so maybe that won't be so easy to do. How are you? You're approaching the final days of the pandemia. I imagine you must be very tired. Hi, Mark, and thank you for this introduction. Yes. We are gearing up, in the last days of the harvest of Nebula. Weather is not perfect, but at least grapes are fantastic. And we are very, very happy. We would like to finish next week, probably if it's possible weather permitting. But, okay, the mood is positive. Tired. You're right, but the with a positive mood. Yeah. When did the first, grapes for the harvest begin this year? This is a regular here. So maybe, like in the old days, we started in the middle of September. So not earlier Okay. Done in the last three years. So much more, you know, an old style, harvest. Okay. We were not used anymore in the last years, but, okay, back to the traditions. Okay. That's interesting. Now, Mateo, the continuous, the winery, is not in the countryside. You're not in the midst of the vineyards. You're in the town of bra, a beautiful, small town, and you're located near the rail station from where trains can reach either nearby Alba or Turin. What what is turn fifty kilometers or so to the north? Yeah. A little bit less. Yeah. This location's significant, isn't it? Can you can you describe where you are why are you there? And tell us something about how this is part of the history of Cantina Ascari. Yeah. First of all, our origin is in La Mora where there is a place called Ascari. Ascari probably was a given name at the beginning and became a family name and this occasion give the name to the place. But then we moved in here eighteen eighty from La Mora to Bra. I think before a reason that, Bra was, a logistic, as a logistic function as and this, as today, better connection by road and railways with Torino. And so, the first, place of Arwani was exactly nearby the railway station. But I'd always function to collect the agricultural production of land in Dorrero, so basically wine, and to bring this to Toreeno. Toreeno exactly is basically forty five kilometers north of bra. And, the first connections between Torino and the Curian Sea by railways was, railways is going from Torino, bravo, and then from Savona to Genoa to the port. Another evidence of this is that there is a cheese that is called not because it's been produced here, but because it was seasoned and and sold on the market of brown. And in the nineteenth century, in this town, there were many important wineries at least ten of them. A couple of them, they were so important that they did bankrupt, but the bankrupt for a clear reason that the big depression of nineteen twenty nine, because they're already exporting a lot of wines in places like United States and Japan and they lost their credits. We were much smaller. We were able to survive. And at the moment, we are the only one, in town. So that is the the origin and the history of our winery regarding the location. That's that's really interesting. And I'm just imagining in eighteen eighty Matteo. This is, you know, just, two two decades after the unification of Italy. The capital had been in terrain, moved to Rome, but of course, the story of of Barolo wine, was, of modern Barolo was really developing at this time quite importantly, wasn't it? And I guess the wines, the market for the wines would have been taking the wines in in Demi John to buy Oxford up to Turin? Or how how was, how was this done in in that long ago time? Yeah. You have to link also to the history of of Italy, yeah, the development of the Barolo wine, as we know today, dates back to the middle of the nineteenth century with, Camilo, contreban sudicabur, and the Marquis of Valetti. Before the maneuver was basically sparkled in a style and a little bit sweet called Amavile. So the baro that we know today dates back to this, he is. So it was they were important he is. To develop the the the barolas and age red wine as we know today. So exactly in those years, there were many important things going on, and, we were part of this evolution. We have to remember that also the the first barolo that has been bottled. So sold in bottle has been, bottled here in bra. This is another, I didn't give an idea how this town was so important for a production of of the barrel in those years. So that is the the reason why we are here. And also because we decide to remain here because, this is our history and it's linked to these aspects. So the winery dates back to eighteen eighty. And now you're the head of the company as well as the winemaker, but it's very much still a family business. When we especially when we include the Elbergo Cantina Escare as well as Osteria Morivaki. I often met your mother Christina behind the desk of the hotel and your sister and brother-in-law are in charge of Osteria Morivaki. So it's very much still a family business. Is there another generation coming in as well? Yeah. Exactly. Mine is the sixth generation. My mother, she's eight years old now. She's very active. So he's a great pleasure to have her every day at the one year or at your tail. And now there is a seven generation too. So, yeah, things are developing in the best way, of course. Then this is my sister, my brother-in-law that I run-in the restaurant, and, Of course, we are working with a lot of employees, a lot of people because it's the most important thing, you know, companies at the end are made by people. And for us, it's, very important to work, in the good way with a lot of collaborators, a lot of employees. Indevinius. First of all, in the winery, in the restaurant, and in the hotel. Family is involved also, yeah, with the new generation. So this is positive and is a great thing for for all all of us. Okay. Well, we'll talk about the Osteria and the foods of the Osteria a little bit later and also the hotel. But let's turn now to to your wines. Though as scary as most famous, I think, for your barolo wines, especially your crude barolo's from different single name vineyards or MGAs. You also produce a full extensive range of wines from Piedmont, including the classics of Leilonge, wines from Rotero, such as longaireness. You produce a galvide del commune de galvie and, classic sparkling method. So it's a really impressive range, as well as the wines I've tasted with you from international grape varieties. But, underlying it all, Matteo, underlying all of the range of wines that you're in charge of an oversee, how do you define the Matteoascari philosophy and approach to wines? Is there something that unites everything? First of all. Yeah. Exactly. First of all, the important thing to say is that we produce just, wines using our own vineyards. So all the grapes that are, that use here are the one area of our production. The style is simple. You know, quality of course is the issue number one, but quality nowadays in our business is a necessary, but it's not enough. The most important thing is to produce wines that could be recognizable. And at the end, you are recognizable only on few aspects, you know, the origins or the vineyards, the grape varietal, and in Piamonte, we are lucky because mostly we work with native parietals. And third important aspect, the philosophy of production. We as wine producers, at the end, we have just to make an interpretation of a place where the vineyard is and have a grape planted over there. So everything comes from the vineyard, of course, because that is the most important thing to work with the best grade possible. And at the winery, the philosophy, I would like to say is on non interventions, but in that not in a commercial or ideological way, not technical way. In other one, we have huge tools like, technology, additives, Oak Consultants, but these tools may be used in the same way everywhere in the world. So it's not through these tools that we could make a difference. But it's just on the contrary if we reduce, the amount, the use of these tools in order to, have a much more clear expressions of the thing that they told you before. So the origin of grape and our ideas. So this is exactly what we like to do. It's like, you know, when you're cooking using great ingredients. On my point of view, there's no need to add many other things to the to the ingredients to have a fantastic dish or It could be that you may cover, you know, with a lot of things, these ingredients. And if if we have great grapes, there's no need to add many other things or talking about music, like music. The idea is to say that we would like to produce, our wines in a kind of an unplugged version or acoustic version instead of electronic one. Okay. That's really, really interesting. That is a that is a nice underlying philosophy. And again, as you stress, fundamental to this is the work in the vineyard. And I like what you're saying about an interpretation of a place, and I think that's very evident, in your wines. So I'd like to home in on you produce a a large range of wines, but I'd like to home in a on a few, ask Eddie wines to give our listeners a taste of, and I'm I'm going to start with a few of my favorites, the wines that When I look when I arrive in Brian, I look forward to opening a bottle almost immediately on arrival. So wait a minute. And, actually, it's very nice in the hotel because, You have an honesty bar system and we can just go straight there and and open some wines and share them with friends, and it's a very, very nice way to be to to enjoy wines in the area. So I'm gonna start with a white one within our niece from Moreno. It's, again, this is a grape that really has a very particular locality. We don't find it outside of the area, and it's a wine I I really like York expression of it. Tell us about, our nace and about the roeto. Yeah. Nace, of course, is a local grape. It was a local grape that's been produced in a sweet way until about forty years ago. A little bit like Muscato, but without the aromatic content of the Moscato. The production was very limited. Was, the wine was just drunk, in the families and that's it. And then about forty years ago, you know, with the trend of the product the production of white wines in an area where, you know, the production of white wine is limited because we have to remember that apart that maze, we have just Cortez and now T moran, sir, but we just saw the production is much more concentrated on reds. So the idea to produce a dry, white wine, was, important in those days. The first attempts were quite weird, not technology, no, no, how, and all these kind of things. So the first attempts of the production of a good, and they were complicated. But Nowadays after four days of development, the one is fantastic because it's very complex on the nose. You have characteristic of white, fruit, beers, apples, exotic fruit, pineapple, grapefruit, a nice pisces. So I've very, very rich in the bouquet. And also in the Mount is a quite complex wine, but with the acid is also high because Royal is giving his acente soil. So it's not giving too much of this. So it's fantastic complimentary wine for, for food, if you like, spicy food, Asian food is is a fantastic compliment. And another interesting thing to say is that Arnese is, in our pigment is dialect. It means a little rascal. Because it was a difficult place to grow in the vineyard. So, you know, there are a lot of nice stories in this country. He's not so famous, you know, outside of, Pemonta, because outside of Pemonta, the most important white wine is is called Gabby. And then he is much more famous compared to other. My name is taking care of speaking. He's really interesting. So it's something that you have to try. Yeah. I think it is really interesting. And, I'm in the UK and and I am able to actually get the Escaddy our niece here in the UK, which which is very nice because I it's a win. I we continue to drink and enjoy. But on a wine that I can't get, and, the second one, I'd like to to, mention is is a a curious wine. A wine that is difficult to encounter unless you're there, but again, which I always enjoy, sampling what I'm with you. And I'm talking about the Verduno Valiverga. Tell us about this wine. Yeah. Verdona is the name of the commune. Erga is the name of the varietal. Probably the name Paravirga, as an origin on on the kind of, of the berries. Per lavera, the green skin. Because the skin is not, thick. It's quite, with, green stripes on the berries. Yeah. Let's say that it is a real wine, actually, because of total production among the nineteen producers that produced these wines. He is a little bit more than two hundred thousand bottles, but at the end, it will always be rare because, the production of, the area production is very limited. Is, only the communal, Verdona, a little part of La Mora, and Roduba, very small. And second, this area production is an enclosed inside of the barrel area. So I would like to have more Pelleverga. You have to approve Nebula and nobody's doing these kind of things Sure. At the end. And it's fantastic because it's very spicy, feffery, nice sensation of, fruit like strawberries. So it's very delicate on on the bouquet. And then color is very paid too because coming from these, quality of skins. And then he's very enjoyable, not too much stunning structure. So it's fantastic wine. It's very versatile. You can start. You can end the meal with Bellaburger. You can have slightly chili in the summertime. You can try with some fish. And, so it's really a nice, nice wine. The only problem exactly is the country produced that is small and will always be very small. So a good opportunity is to chase here in, in Piamonte when you come to Yes. Absolutely. And I think that's still one of the fascinations of Italian wine. That that a a a variety like Palaverga, will only be encountered in this tiny, tiny little area, and yet producers still believe in it and continue to produce it. Presumably, Mato, you could you could plant Nebula on those same slopes and make a wine of more more value, but it's important still to keep this tradition and this unique wine that's unlike anything else. Yeah. I have to tell a story. You know, we had a very old Venus of Perverga producing eight hundred, bottle one thousand maximum. My idea was to approve and exactly to plan the viola, but my sister that she ran the restaurant, she forced me to plant a new vineyard of Pe la verga. Because, you know, the customers at the at the Astoria, they were asking for Pe la verga. And so I was forced. And then, I have to say that, also, we are exporting a little quantity because the quantity is limited, also in North America, in, UK, lots of broad, Italy. But, okay, always in this dimension of a very tiny, tiny production. Okay. Now, Mateo, let's turn to your borollos, both the, straight, a scary barolo, and also the three crew borrolos. Can you explain, the first of all, the the barolo without the name Vignuits, which which brings in grapes from various areas, but then also the differentiations between Costa Brieco Serrano and Pisapola. Yeah. I have to say that, you know, the traditional way to produce the barolo due to the fact that Barolo is a mono varietal wine. So one hundred percent of Nibialo, introduces was to blend different areas. This is the regional way because blacking areas, you can complete your wine in the best way. Maybe add in the elegant character of La Mora and the spiciness of, and the floral character of Verduno, the strengths and the traditional mushroom, truffle days from Seraloungadal. So blending these kind of things means that you have a one that is much more complete in this way. So it's exactly a good way to produce for a probably, there's a regional way. A single vineyards, on the other hand, a much more peculiar wine. Are made to exile the differences. So we are producing actually four single vineyard different Barolo, one from La Mora, one from Verdun, and two from Serenolanga, and, the idea with the single vineyard is to have a very peculiar wine. So we start from different, soil conditions, different weather condition, microclimate. And then we apply at the end, different humidification and different aging method, simply in order to have a different interpretation. So they're much more based on taste. Maybe you like Mark much more one or the other comparing to the other expression, but it is exactly the philosophy. And in in in the idea that I told you before, to be recognizable, the single vineyard and mono varietal wine is the best possible option that you may have. Okay. So you're talking about at the beginning that's what your role as a winemaker is to express a place. And this is really an example of how you can best express a particular and precise terroir. Yes. Exactly. It is exactly so the production is very limited. The singlevenues are just made in the best he is. Not every year. So that is exactly what you would like to to have. A spatial expression of a single place. Verduno is much more flora, you know, Cartrove rose, violets, sweet spicy, cinnamon licorice, tobacco, cloves, rhubarb, sralunga, much more classical, much more mushroom truffle leathery, forest floor. The tonic evolution is also completely different, much more elegant, so exactly is something that we would like to express, you know, our, ideas through a clear expression of place. And consumers, I guess, it gives an x extra level of appreciation. People are are are seeking, to find these differentiations in line. Do you think that, or has it been difficult to, you know, the whole with the introduction of the MGAs, is that been a difficult? Proposition? Yeah. Because, of course, we have talked about the real deal. What is interesting for us is that blending, you know, the broad values would blend them of three different communes where we have our property gives much more an introduction to this varietal and to this wine. This is not an easy wine to understand, but although it's never an easy wine coming from the umbrella of varietal. So this is the function of of the barolo made blend composition. Single vineyards are exactly much more interesting and can really develop much more, personal taste of the final consumer. Of course, you need to be much more in the characteristic of the barolo, but it's exactly something's the right to, to express. Okay. Now, Mateo, the wines that you produce across the board, the wines of Delangue and Roeto. These are wines above all in gavi or what wines that demand to be enjoyed with foods. And the foods are best to company them. I know that you travel around the world, but I I would say, and I'm sure you would agree that the foods that best accompany your wines are the foods of your area. Now You you have your family or studio within the grounds of the winery. So let's turn our attention to to foods of the locality and and the wines at Parvest. And I'm going to suggest that we perhaps start with the with the plate of salumi with the special Salcichdi bra, which is very, very particular. Yeah. Suscichdi bra is special. It is raw sausage made made by VEL, you know, in Piamonte, we have great wines, great cheeses, truffle, white truffle, but also we have a a great meat, the pigment is beef that is very lean and very low fat and very tender. So the result is that we eat a lot of raw meat, like, steak tartar, like beef, carpaccio, and sausitio de Brice, fantastic. My favorite, wine with Actually, Bryce is Dolce. On Dolce is the one that we drink, you know, basically here every day. It's a simple one. It's a one that you can drink without thinking too much about. And it's the perfect match with different kind of food. Yeah. But pigmentation wines are designed for food. You know, that is the most important thing. So the best way to appreciate our wines, our pilates wine is with food. And our cuisine is really great. Delotona, of course, Tairing, all the past, and Yoki, these kind of things. The the restaurant, we opened the hours three in nineteen ninety three. So almost more than ten to thirty years ago. And as we open it, remain. It's running my by by my sister and my brother-in-law. I'm the official equality controller. So I do a lot of taste over there trying to find the best food and the best wine together. Yeah. I'd like to be your assistant. Absolutely. He's an odd he's an odd word by the way. Not simple. You cannot see me, but okay. My name is quite Ralph. Yeah. Due to his back. Tell us a few more of the classic dishes, that we can enjoy in the old study of motivating Vicky. Classic dishes that are, you know, really everybody who visits Lanangue, Roeto needs to try. Yeah. I mean, first of all, we have say that regarding our food is strange, but the most important and signature dishes are made with not local, food because we were producing, wines here, but we don't have other things. And many other things. So we were selling our wines in liguria for instance, and coming back with salt, olive oil that we don't have here, all kinds of, preserve fish like thin tuna, salty and chowies, stock fish. This is regarding the the southern part, northern part, going to Valdaosta with Fontina, coming back with Fontina. So one of the signature dishes we tell it on that is, po slice poach meal, serve it cold with a tuna mayonnaise. That is fantastic, anchovies, with the green, sauce. And talking about pasta, we have to a, tiring or made pasta with all kind of, sauce, gnocchi, potato gnocchi. In yesterday, we have fantastic dishes, potato gnocchi with custom manual. Cheese, because there's another great quality of this area are the cheeses, cow milk, sheep milk, goat milk, custom menu is probably the best one. So really a lot of great food. And then all the, the red meat, like, this kind of, dishes. Bolita Misto. Oh, wow. Yeah. Exactly. Volita Misto is fantastic. We are we are we are going to the season of Volitomiesco, by the way. Yeah. During the fall, winter time is the perfect way. With different kind of sources, sources, and then it's fantastic. Do you serve the Balito in the osteria? Yes. Exactly. We change the menu every week, trying to serve different dishes, always linked to the tradition. Everything is on made. So it is the most important thing. It's a traditional place. You know, we opened in nineteen eighty three when the rest area were closing. There were no more mysterious. So a simple place, informal where you can sit at the table, enjoy the food in the right way. Drinking the right wine in a good way, maybe by the glass. In nineteen ninety three, serving the wine by the glass was a quite of a news. But, okay, and we maintain the same style for all these years. So this means that probably that was a good idea. Nineteen ninety three. I'm just wondering if that precedes or came after the, the Albergo cantina Esqueray because you must have constructed read on the sellers and then build the hotel because it's directly on top of your wine sellers. Yes. Exactly. Australia nineteen ninety three, the refurbishing of the winery and the hotel was two thousand and five. So almost yeah. Exactly. Almost twenty years now. The winery has been refurbished. At the end of a huge program, of, making all new Venus on our property is trying to have the best production of the grapes using the better restocks, the better, selections to have the the right, quality of the grape that we had in our mind, in my mind, And the and the winery has been exactly designed according to the result we were able to achieve in in the vineyards. Then it was time to take care of the winery, and then we created also the tail. And now two years ago, so we had a a small Spa wellness center, for the hotel. So the idea at the end is to have inside of the town of Brown where we are, a kind of an island where you don't really see too much from the outside. But when you are inside, the most important thing is wine production, that is our main business, our traditional business. And then we added in time, the rest on your tail, and now also the spot. So I need to stay in place too. Yeah. I think it's one of the best ways for one lovers to, get an overview because wine needs to be placed in the context of of how people live and how people eat and, you know, to actually be able to stay above the winery and to have this wonderful listeria, in the courtyard is is a fantastic opportunity that I know our listeners will enjoy. I'm just wondering, Matteo, who is the idea behind becoming a hotelier as well? Because it's such a different, vocation than and being a winemaker. Yeah. That's true. But, okay, his link is, part of our offer, you know, with the wine, we can send, all over the world, the one part of our food culture. So it's, is important. You know, the bottles are bringing everywhere in the world our food culture. So the idea was also to work to host, people and tourists in, in our places to show even better, nearer, exactly our reality. Those of the tour that we do at the one area are personal. So that's me, my son, our waymaker, because we feel that the people coming to visit us, they have to have the privilege to to meet the people that are really in charge. So it's part of the philosophy or part of the communication. We try to put inside of the bottle, part of ourselves. And also, when you're coming to visit, everything is linked to our personal approach and our personal touch. That's really important. And I think in that sense, you were pioneers in developing wine tourism as well because certainly, Alba, in in the season we're coming and the weeks we're coming into is attracting people from all over the world for wine, but also for this special food that we haven't mentioned, the special underground tour de tartufo bianco de alba, which attracts so many people. I've seen the development of wine tourism since I began visiting in the in the goodness me back to the shows you how old I am at the house would have been the end of the seventies when I first came. To yes. And, yeah, it's important to say that the tourism in this part of the amount, the southern part of the amount is linked to wine and fruit. So if you're coming in the area, you can find maybe different style of restaurant, maybe much more scale much more traditional, like our story. But the quality of the food is fantastic because it's the most important attraction that we have. And then when you are here for wine and food, and then you discover also the culture, last pet or a small place like bra, alba, but then all the Department of Kuna is fantastic. So it's part of, of the, the thing that you would like to give to the customers is a kind of a continuous cover, you know, and maybe you come for certain things and then you discover much more. And this is exactly the most important thing that we can offer. You can hear you are here for for wine and food, but then you you have really opportunity to have fantastic landscape to see nice, nice. Yes. Actually, you're actually involved and on the board of the, consortium for tourism in, Yes. I mean, that's right. Yeah. It was perfect. Yeah. So so really making this area well known, because there's so much to offer. And as you say, in terms of, of of of for wine lovers for food lovers, of course, but for people that are less wine focused as well, there are many, many things to do. And then, yeah, you know, to mention Torino, Toreen is a fantastic, just for for business, you know. Basically after the the winter Olympics in two thousand and six, You know, it's it's a fantastic, town. Yeah. Italy at the end is exactly is a continuous discovery. You know, you can have fantastic places like Rome, Florence, Venice, Venice, the amalfi coast, but, also known places can really give you great sensation, great landscape, great historical centers, small villages, great food. And then, you know, you can have really a fantastic option to to see new things that you maybe not expect. And maybe they're not so overcrowded like the main places, you know, that they mentioned. Absolutely. Well, Mette, you've certainly taken us into your world. As I've said, I believe that, you know, our listeners are located all around the world, but I think that this, the wonderful wines, first of all, which underpin everything. But, this complex that you and your family have created with the Alberto Cantini, scattered, as well as your studio, Morivaki, is certainly something that people who are traveling to the area. I know we'll enjoy. I look forward to returning again. It's been a bit too long. I haven't seen the spa yet. But I've I've read about it. I think you're even doing things with wellness in line. Is that correct? Yeah. Even if, you know, the wine is much more, I have a respectful wine. So I believe that when the wetness is much more with water. That's fine. And the wine is the best thing is to drink the wine, you know. Okay. Yeah. Great. Well, Mateo, I know you are very busy. You've got to go straight back down and get back to, to the grapes that are on imagining coming in in tractor lids through the gates into the courtyard now. So Yeah. We're running wild now. Yes. Yeah. Good. Well, thank you so much for taking some time to to be my guest today. It's been really, great to catch up with you again. And I hope next time we do it, we're sharing a glass of wine together. Thank you for this great opportunity, Mark. I really look forward to seeing you again here as much of the people that we are going to listen the the podcast. Here we are, and, it would be a pleasure to have, the visit of of of the of the person in this small part of the We hope today's episode of wine food and travel with me, Mark Millum, on the Italian wine podcast, has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chinchin.