Ep. 205 Monty Waldin interviews Pietro Ratti (Renato Ratti)

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. This podcast is brought to you by Lux wines, importer of fine wines, bringing you exceptional wines from esteemed winemaking families, Alegini, Argiano, Yerman, Pierro Pan for Joal to Doro, Renato Rati and Tonatori. Find out more at lox wines dot com. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me, Montewood. My today is Pietro Orati from the Renato Ratia State in La Mora, in the Barrado region of Piamonte. Welcome Pietro. Thank you. Let's talk a little bit about family history. Let's start off. This is one of the most famous missus States in Italy. Just give me a little bit about your family history. Yes. I'm, the second generation of, Rati Weiner, my father, Renator Rati was, the man who, started the winery in nineteen sixty Right? And, my father was a kind of a legend, in the barolo zone, but not just in the barolo, in Italian, because back in the time, he introduced in the barolo and barbaresco, but let's talk most Libaba all about, he introduced the new concept, the new philosophy of single vineyards. At that time, we talked about the sixties, the traditional way, method to make Barolo was more to blend from different vineyards, from different communes, to make a bottle more similar from vintage to vintage. But my father in nineteen sixty one, he went to burgundy. And from burgundy, it got really totally inspired. And when he came back, he said, I wanna make a wine but all is like burgundy. You know, we have a, you know, like one one, you know, a grape like Nebula. It's super sensitive to the soil and microclimate. So he said we should, make single vineyards back again because you know, the local growers that used to make single vineyards back in, you know, in eighteen hundred. So in sixty five, he made his first Barolo from this area called Marchenasco. And he put the name Marchenasco on the front able without the name but also really like in a French, way of making wine. Were his, friends and colleagues in the village surprised, shocked, angry or, yeah, this is a good idea when you They were shocked. Of course, they were shocked because also because my family, my father is not it was not from a wine family. My grandfather was a veterinarian and my great grandfather was a doctor. So, yeah, no, no connection to a father. You know, you remember, you know, we come I come from a conservative, you know, agriculture is a conservative rural. And, you know, in that area at that time in the sixties, people would say you can't change anything, you know, they had has done that for for years. No, no, papa. Great grubhub. Great grandfather. We've always done it while you try to change something that isn't broken. Exactly. You can't. It's by my father because you didn't have that type of responsibility to a family. So it was much more free, open to do it. And of course, some other, you know, open minded white makers that followed him in this new, philosophy. Okay. So that's talk about some of the vineyards, the single vineyards, or the wines that you make from single vineyards, which carry the vineyard name. Let's go through them one by one. You can choose the order. Yes. We still make, so we celebrate this year, the fifty anniversary of the March and ask So we make, with the two thousand fifteen. And March and Asco is is started as a single vineyard. Now, it's not really single vineyard. It's an area around the wine. It was the old name that goes back to the thirteenth century. There was a the many things that built an Abbey and they named the is Sam Martin of March and ask. So my father found a name, and and now he's, like, a proprietary name, but he's in Anunciata and within the town of La Mor. And what is the terweiler? What are we talking about altitude, aspect of the sun, soil type? We are in the western side of the barolo zone, La Mora is known to have this, typical blue marble type of clay. You know, it's all the calcareos, you know, from sea origin. So we talk about, very good soil for the biolo to make, you know, a barolo wine, but the style of of barolo from La Mora is elegant because the blue marble gave, they make the the barolo more elegant, more approachable when it's young. It's more accessible when it's young. So when you say young. We're talking young five years after bottling, three years after bottling, ten years after bottling? Yeah. Exactly. Let's say if we release now this year, the fifteen, for instance, so it's four years, you know, almost, it's already accessible. Then, of course, about all in general, you know, eight, ten years after the vintage is always the best, timing. You know, you know, it's, you need to be patient a little bit, you know, with some wines. Sure. And what what is a good food match for that particular wine for the Marcian Asco? For a merchant asking general, you know, but always, you know, meat because you have tannin, you know, but it'd be always a tannic. What would your what would your favorite meat be? Would it be pork? Would it be beef? A beef? Of course, beef. Spicy. Yeah. But then it depends how to let's say if it's young, you can also have a steak. Sure. Grilled steak. If it's more aged, of course, you you start to have a little bit more aged aromas, you know, a third aromas. So you have maybe you have to match with some, you know, braced, something, you know, or maybe with some, you know, if you if you find in the wine, mushroom truffle, you may, you might need a truffle or or mushroom. Also, you know, it's a good match. Okay. So that was the Marcinasco. On the western side of La Mora. Next single vineyard wine you wanna talk about? It's a concha. It's a tiny single vineyard. Such, it's called concha. Concha because of the shape of the vineyard. It's a concha. It's like a concha, like a concha, like a shell. A concha. Yeah. A concha. So the theater. Exactly. Exactly. It's the altitude. A quarter. Well, the bunker is about two eighty. Okay. Meters. So it's pretty low. I mean, it's not too high, but it's a good, you know, and it and it's because it's a conscious shell, a small heat. True. So we get about all our normal a little bit more licorice minty. We we sell it within Italian, but Samiko. Not like basilica vinegar, but in this type of flavor. Like. And because of the microclimate, it's a bit warmer. So you get a little bit more power also. So normally more powerful barolo. So that's in La Mora as well, isn't it? Even if in La Mora, because it's at the bottom of the hill. Sure. So you get this type of flavors, which is a little bit, elegant power at the same time. And a food match for the concha? It's pretty much the same, like Marcanasco. So, I mean, here, you can really The beef is off the menu. So either we're running out So you gotta come up with another another dish? I don't know. Maybe some cheese. No. I don't know. It didn't. What about these a risotto? Could you just have a risotto with that on No. So risotto. Yes. Maybe a risotto with some, like, mushrooms or exactly something, little bigger risotto like a lighter risotto tomato but the risotto maybe with a creamy, beef also, you know, some, beef or or you know, the you know, the bidolo also from, you know, like, also bunco, something like that. They gives this kind of fatness Yeah. To the sweetness from getting off being off the bone. Yeah. Which is very good. Yeah. Right. Okay. So that's conquer. And the next Yes. Yes. Yeah. The next the third one we make is is a double name. Rocky means a cliff. So it's been a a a place which the cliff made a lot of erosion. So we talk about the soil still in the in the in the in the La Mora way, but uh-uh imagine erosion erosion erosion erosion of thousand of years. So we have a soil, little bit lighter, like a little bit of sandier and with the topsoil thinner. So we have a really pure soil. Then the the second part the name Anuntciata is the name of the place. So it's a roque de Anuntciata. And normally it's a barolo, a little bit more feminine because of the, of this the sand always give, in general, sand gives to the wine a little bit more elegance. So he a softness. Yeah. Yeah. So the tan is that tend to be a little bit of silkier. And the one is really a a a beauty, especially after a few years in the bottle, the bottle, you really get, in incredible expression of, of the is the if La Mora is urgency, I will say rocket downside is the quintessential of the elegant errolo. It's okay. So you've got a so you've got a, I guess, a friable sandy soil that warms up quickly for the roka. Yeah. Which gives it its probably its exuberance. And I guess it's kind of a, what, a soft mouthfeel. And then you've got the roka, which has probably a slightly firmer mouthfeel. Yeah. And then, Marcinasco, which kinda has the softness because of the brightness and the firmness because of the for the Exactly. Marcinald is a little bit in between the two, and it's, it's a very good balance, elegant, but all of them are is really, like, an example of a great, but all of Lamora. While Conk again is a more personality, a little bit bigger, and Roca da Munciato is a beauty. Sure. Okay. So what are your main markets? My main markets are, we export, behind the Barolo, but as a winery because we also make we talk about them. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Tell me a little bit about the dulcetto. Yeah. Dulcetto. Yeah. Dulcetto is a native grape. Despite the name dulcetto, it's not it's not sweet. It's a little little sweet one. A little sweet. It's pretty dry. Actually, So it's a tricky tricky name because it's like the younger cousin of the nebbiolo. So it got some tanning in a lighter style compared to nebbiolo and it's a wine, not age milk because you don't need to age the jazzy milk. So it's stainless steel tanks, and he's a wine you drink normally in a couple of years after the harvest. Is it dolce de the alba? Yeah. I label language dolce too, which is like a second, from Dorcito because it's a migration. They come from two different vineyards, one in Alba, one in Doliani. Doliani. Okay. So to match the two. Dogiliani. That's right. Dogiliani. And to match the two, I have to apply to the appalachian And, I'm bottling normally, like, in, in the month of, April. So to not to harvest. Yeah. So very, very, very, yeah, very short, stainless steel tanks time. So I said made sweet, drunk fairly early. Yeah. You drink early. You need to like a dorchetto. We love it because we are from Pemonte. We have that our pilot is a is a tonic palette. So what's a good bachelor dorchetto? Dorchetto will be appetizers, you know, like a Karura or roommate. So, Romit, exactly. So, Tarthar, you know, steak tartar, we have a typical in the language with the fasone beef, and then, the typical ought to be to the type of dishes is, perfect. Super. Okay. Let's talk about the next barbaresco. Barbara. Barbara. Yeah. Barbara is the largest grape grown in Pemonte because it's perfectly adapted to any type of a macro climate. So you you might find Barbera, Barbera, Barbera, dusty, you know, on different population. I make both avenues into both populations. Normally, they are like, thirty kilometers apart. The asti is the war, soil is a little bit richer, hills are are lower altitude, and, so the climate is warmer. So you get the barbera more powerful or rustic, a little bit more rustic, very nice intake ends full body, fantastic wine, really, very exubera. The typical barbera is from us. Then they make also barbera, you know, higher heels, little bit more complexity, wine, more language style. So when you say more language, stuff. What do you actually mean by that? It would be fine. Okay. Okay. But that's like a slow burner. It does take a little bit more time to come round as though we were saying. It's a little bit more time. Yeah. Because, you know, remember the balder down, but normally not normally is grown in the place where you don't grow an Abiolo. Sure. Some of the best parts of the hill is taken by Abiolo. So we put it, in a place where it takes a little bit more time to mature, and only a bit cooler, while it asks you to put it in the best sides. Okay. I'm applying tasting your barbera dalba and your barbera dasti. And before you put me through the torture of of trying to get this right, so I'm sure I would get it wrong. You have to give me two little hints. It's the right Monti. One of these wine has x y z character, and the other one has x y z character. What would you say to me to help me not make a fool of myself? So Alba will be more, aromatic. Yep. Okay. In the way of more, maybe a little bit more floral. Is that from Sandia soil also? Yeah. From lighter soil. Sure. Okay. I see we'd be more would be fruitier, not those big fruit. Some more texture, more fruit fruit, yeah, like a ripe ripe fruit. So and in the mouth, normally alba is a little bit more elegant while acid will be more aggressive, but in a good way. Okay? So really like takes your palette in a very nice. I loved it. The acid because of this, you know, I like this wildness of the barbera because we already have nebulo for the finish. Sure. So I like the barbera for his exuberance. Yeah. Everything has its place. Heremont, it's pretty well organized naturally where stuff is grown. That that makes sense. This variety works on this site, and this one on this site. There's a real it seems to be there's a real logic, to what's going on. Now in terms of, existential threats to, obviously, one to talk about delicate and powerful at the same time. Climate change, how are you dealing with that given that a lot of your vineyards are on steep slopes? Okay. Climate change is a big, thing for us. There is a positive and a negative aspect because the attitude where we are for the fifth parallel. And because we are close to the mountains, close to a sea, so we have a very strong influence of the climate. So climate change made in the last vintages more, a better quality of harvest. So which means that normally we use to to have a lot of rain in September, October. In the last vintages, it happens it rains less. So it's, we benefit of that. So, that's easier for disease control or access to the vineyard. Yeah. Especially in the last portion because disease you get a lot. We we live in it in the in the disease, because we get humidity in the early part of, of the summer. So we spray, basically, and that's, we'll, and that's our job. Okay. So that's, that humidity is coming. You're saying from the, the taurinean and also from, air from the Alps. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. We get humidity from the sea. Sure. Okay. And they get, so we get in the summer. It's warm and humid. So it's the best place for fungus to live and so we need to protect the vines by spraying. But in the last portion of the season, let's say from August, we don't spray anymore, you just wait. And in the past, it used to rain, the time, normally in September when you really make the quality. But now doesn't rain anymore. So we really benefit of more, high quality of vintages. By the opposite, what we get is big heavy rainstorms. Big storms. Big really like, we call tornado. It's not a tornado. Like, hey, in a very good tornado. But when it rains, it rains like heavy, and we because it's steep, so we there's a lot of erosion. So does that mean that you're leaving every other venue hard row with grass, with wild vegetation. You you must. So are you sowing a cover crop or salvation? You do you No. Savation is a different story. So so basically it's something you need to to fertilize the soil. So you'll you'll leave, you know, you cut it for that, but you need to have grass between the rows. So you prefer leaving just native vegetation, letting that grow in spontaneously rather than going in with a tractor. Yeah. And sowing some seeds, which may be clover, as you said, that would nitrogen or a cereal crop or something as you let that happen naturally. Yeah. And that acts as like a buffer, doesn't it? So when you've got these little leaves on the ground plant, when the rain hits, it actually slows that rain drop down, and means that you don't get, erosion. Exactly. That's the way our roles, you know, they're they're around the hill. Sure. They're not down from the top to the to the. It's not we call it ritoquino, but it's around like this. So, and this system. Horizontal terraces. Horizontal. That was built, you know, it was made a hundred of years ago because to keep the the cow stroking horizontally. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So the cow could work across the hill rather than going up and down the hill. It was impossible to go up and down. It's because you had to push your hand from the bottle to go up. So and because of that unesco, so the word heritage recognized the language because of that because it's a most of the difficult in the world is down is is is in the other direction. Only few places in the water like around because it's much more expensive to grow vineyards in that way. But because we are steep, that's the only way to to do it. But going back to the grass between the roads is very important for erosion. But all soft. Another reason is to keep humidity during the summertime so that you avoid evaporation. So the ground, the leaves that of these plants just provide ground cover, cover, and shade in those soil in the soil cooler. In those exactly, and also the void the reflection of the sunlight for summer. Okay. So you have these white sores that will reflect the sun. So it's that's quite interesting. It's like a mirror. Yeah. Like a mirror. So you basically these plants like growing on top of the mirror and blocking the sunlight. So there's no Yeah. Because we get a lot of, mirror, you can get a lot of sunburn from the bottom. So what do you reckon that the temperature difference? If I have we have two identical vineyards, yours and mine next, and mine is open, so I just have no cover drops and you have these wild this wild vegetation. Will your vineyard be what? Two degrees? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's temperature, but also humidity. Sure. Okay. So, evaporation. Mhmm. Because we need to keep the humidity, you know, a global warming. Now, that's the the other fact. We need to keep the roots in a good, conditions. So the the wine roots have some water if they need a humidity stays on the ground. So before we used to be like, we need to struggle the vine to be more, in a different conditions because it was raining a lot. Now, it's the opposite. We need to, you know, remember, the vine to make good grapes has to to live well. Okay. You need to to to have divine living in a good condition. Okay. Final question is about international markets, obviously, Europe. I mean, you are a, you know, world famous brand in terms of full name, I should say rather than brand, because of your family history and obviously are in the quality of the wines that you make. What do you what changes are you seeing in the market to historic denominations and people's approach? Are people buying your wine because they just wanna have a ratty bottle in their cellar as a collector as like a trophy, or are they buying them? Because, you know what, I'm gonna age this wine, and I'm gonna look forward to drinking it in maybe ten or fifteen years time with whatever I'm gonna eat. What is the demographic? What's happening in the marketplace? But I don't know if I hope they drink it also faster because and we know we make wine every year. So, no, but some people they keep it and, of course, but always one of those wines if you forget the bottle in the corner of your seller is gonna get better. So it's it's fun to to get some bottles. Sometimes it's good to buy more and drink, because remember about all, but basically, you know, they didn't be auto based wines when they mature, but when they reach their plateau, they stay at the plateau for a long time. They don't go down. So you. I always say don't be in a hurry. It's not a wine that takes, you know, when it gets to that, you know, mature goes down. So you can wait. It's a long drinking window. Wrong drinking. You have five, of course, you need to, you know, to adjust your palates or so for a, you know, aged wine. So it's fun to drink a young, medium order. So it's really, so, markets are, palettes are changing style of wine is changing, you know, if you, if you, if you see wines, there was a period of, I call it a more, the ma, the muscular. Yeah. The muscular ones. Why? Because there was a trend of more, you know, more powerful. Now it's more elegant. So we all look, all look looking for, But that's always been the fact family style, hasn't it? You never got him for this big blockbustery style of Barolla? Yeah. Because we are LaMar. So at the end, we benefit of that. So this relevancy, and it's, which I try to express in the best way possible. Great. I just wanna say to my guest today, Pietro Rati from the Renato Rati Estate in La Mora. Thanks for going through your single vineyards. We got a brad for applause. I've got a conference going on next door. Thanks for your vineyard, explanations in which I personally found very, very helpful. And I hope our listeners have as well. And you have a lot of fans across the world. He's such a famous brand, but you're very down to earth guy. So, well done. We're down to earth. I mean, he's about he's taller than this building. Down to earth in terms of his birth his personality. You're barely fit fitted through the door, actually. We've got a really high high door here. Anyway, no studio. Alright. More applause for you. They they love you. Thanks. Thanks very much, Pietro, and I hope to see you in LaVora. Thank you. This podcast has been brought to you by Lux wines, importer of fine wines, bringing you exceptional wines from a wine making families, Alegrene, Arcano, Pierman, Pieropan, for Joaltesoro, Renato Rati and Toranatorre. Find out more at lox wines dot com. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.