Ep. 266 Lamberto Frescobaldi (Marchesi Frescobaldi) on Frescobaldi per il Sociale and Gorgona Island

This episode of the Italian wine podcast is brought to you by the new book, San Giovanni, Lambruschco, and other vine stories. Researchers Atilio Shenza, and Cerrenne Macio, explore the origin and ancestry of European great varieties in a tale of migration, conquest, exploration, and cross cultural exchange. Hardback available on Amazon in Europe, Kindle version available worldwide. Find out more at Italian winebook dot com. Italian wine podcast. With Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me, Montewall. And my guest today is Lambert Torres Cabaldi. Lamberto's previous sleep in on the Italian wine podcast. I think it was about a year or two ago. Today, you're going to talk about a specific project that you've created. Can you give us the name of the project? The project is Feliscobaldi. And it's So what does that what does that mean in English? What does it mean? What does it mean in English? It's, the first of all is involved for social, social activity, in the respect of the society. And, doing something good for the society. Okay. So just enlighten us, what is what is the project? What are you doing? The project is, is about producing a wine in a prison on the island of Gorgona. It's an island off the coast of Tuscany. Straight, west of, Livourno, twenty two miles off, Livourno is a island prison has been in prison since eighteen sixty nine. Wow. It's a small island, though, isn't it? It's a tiny island. Four hundred eighty acres. So two hundred hectares. It's quite high. Two hundred and twenty meters on the sea level. No much land. It's really rock. Okay. And how big is the vineyard then? The vineyard is, when I began in in twenty twelve. It was one actor. Oof. And now it's, two point three. Right. And how many prisoners are, in prison, they are, in the island, they are over a hundred. And, eighteen of them are involved in, on, in the, in the vineyard. We have shifts shift on on the vineyard, but not on in the cellar. The cellar, we we want to have one inmate, for good because for good means for one single year and we had had, inmates for three or plus years. And, this is the thing. We have, we we give a chance for two inmates. And we hire them because that's the thing. It's about hire them. We pay a rent at the at the government for using the vineyard and the seller, and we hire these people when we pay them like anybody else. So they consider they are at the end of their sentence. They're gonna be in on the island for another three, four max. See, six years. They will leave the island with some money that will help them to be reintroduced and and, regular site. And they're and they're going to gain skills as well, aren't they? They're getting skilled. They're getting one important thing. It's not really getting skill about vineyard management or seller. It's about getting deprived of doing something and be paid for that. You and I, let's talk about me. I I never had thought about that. Some people out there that have never ever been regularly played for what they're doing. And so they do not have that. And the and so then they do something wrong and they go to jail and And and there comes and and it has happened that some inmates came up to me and saying, thank you. This is my first check ever. Really? So how I mean, like, how old, is there a big age range? Are they juvenile offenders or are they the people that have been sentenced to jail for more than twenty years, often, twenty, thirty years. So there are people that they are they're doing, the mistake when they were in their twenties. So there are, pretty much people that are in the forties and fifties. Wow. Yeah. It's, puts, puts things in, in perspective. And do you get a lot of inquiry from your I mean, does your agent in America, for example, are they interested in this? Or is it like, oh, this is a sideshow. We're just more interested in your brunellos and your No. No. No. No. They are. They're interested. They're interested. Of course, this is, this is a project has to be explained, and, but we have, we have, the summer I was in Athens just to tell you, in Athens because I went there for holiday and I stopped in Athens and and a person said, you know, can I and one went to a store, and and this person came up to me and said, you first go out? Yeah. Can I buy sixty bottles of Gorgona? And I looked at. Athens is falling apart. The economy is a disaster, but maybe it's not true. Actually, maybe the economy is not so bad. And, and so we had a request of sixty bottles that usually we never give sixty bottles to one second, but to be very honest, I shipped sixty bottles because was touched by that request. So what kind of I mean, just the kind of least important question probably for this interview is, what is that what is the wine actually made from? The wine is made from Tuvarieties, Vermentino and Antonica. Two white varieties that they are historically implanted on the coast, of Italy from, from, all the, liguria. So, Geneva, all the way down to Sicily and Sardinia, of course, Vermontine and Sardinia is very important. So these two varieties make up the wine fifty fifty percent blend and and it gives, the uniqueness, the Valentino has more body, but the Antonica gives a good fresh acidity that allows the wine to age nicely. So in terms of you talked about the winemaker, he's or she presumed they're all male, Yeah. The male. Yeah. So Ninety six percent population in prison is male. Okay. And is there a particular demographic? I mean, they all it's Italian No. No. No. They are different countries where they come from. Various. And do they sort of get on with each other? I know it's a bit of a silly question, but No. They, Gorgon is an island where there are a hundred inmates. The rest of Italy, there are seventy seven thousand people are presently in jail. Those those hundred emails are selected very, very tightly. And, they are not allowed to do mistakes. There because it's not gonna be send it back to the to the the other prisons where they see blue sky for two hours. They max. Instead, they are, it's a totally different jail where people are is sent to place a to place b to do some things and do not they do not have the police man behind them. So it's up to them to learn a bit of responsibility. It is up to them. You have to think that if there's a person that has been to jail centers of jail for twenty for thirty years and then they've been jailed for twenty five years. That's and they have had some discount on the on the time and they maybe that's the they are the last three years. Why the hell you want to do? You want to do something around the last three years of escape. No. They are pretty much calm. So some people would say you're you're condoning criminal criminal behavior. How would you answer that? I would answer that that no matter what. If we accept it or we do not accept that these people are gonna leave the prison. And this is something difficult to accept. Are these people gonna be set free? And being setting free, it means that they will, they will have, a chance. They will do a crime again, an eighty five percent, the people that I enjoy, when in jail, or go back to the real world start working and actually start paying taxes and pay back their time in jail that is by the way is around two hundred euros per day per person. So you tell me what is the best? Is it the best to have them leave the prison angry, aggressive, and do a crime again, or go in the in the world of of, in the real world again. And for what I've seen, in the entire experience, one hundred percent of the people that leave Gorgona have a job and they will back in the real life again. We'll get right back to the Italian wine podcast after a quick reminder that this episode is made possible by the book, San Jose, Lambrusco, and other vine stories available on Amazon in Europe and Kindle worldwide. How do they, you know, just say I'm one of the inmates and I work on your vineyard, and I leave the the vineyard, and maybe I can't maybe I don't have the I can't write, you know, maybe not well educated. Do you ever get, inmates writing to you saying thank you very much or No. No. No. No. You know, they on the island when I see them, sometimes people come up to me and say thank you. Or they do something. This is a gift for you. And they every time they they have a gift, they give me a gift. And sometimes when it's one to one relation with some of them, then they say they come up to me and say, thank you. And I say, do not thank me. Do not thank me. I'm not doing nothing special. It's, you are the author of your life or yourself. So if you do a mistake, you're gonna be injured again. And if you do a mistake, you're gonna be cut kicked out from the project. So you have to be responsible. I'm not doing anything. I'm not choosing the inmates. I'm not I'm hiring them. I'm giving them a job. And hopefully, put them in in the in the track of being pride again of what they're doing and give them a hope of a better life. Then it's up to them. Mhmm. So, I mean, the demographic of the people that are in there, I mean, I would have, I think maybe said, but imagine many of them didn't have a great education. But are there some of them that maybe did and just went off off the, you know, came from good families, maybe good schooling, and they just went off the rails for whatever reason? Yes. Yes. How do they how do they do they feel more? Do you feel that they identify with you more? You know, you're you've got a title, you're a famous guy, or you've got land and all the rest of it. Do they sort of see you as a as a friend or as a as a as a gullible guy that can't see that we're still really bad and he's given us this little job? Look. Could I answer you that we are there since twenty twelve. So it has to be quite a number of years. And people when they leave the prison, we allow them to come and work for us for one solid year. After that solid year, believe that they are ready to fly with their own wings. And, so we give them the opportunity. The field then strong again and hopefully not do another mistake. This summer, we actually had eight people working on Venus. From the prison of of Livonia and Garbona. So, they they know that, this is not a game. Another for me that I have devoted a lot of time. To this project. When I go to the island, now I go a little bit less, but in the past, I used to go very often more than once a month. It's a it's a full day that you cannot do nothing else and Then there, be there, and then chat with them, chat with the police. So also, the police is the one that have seen that we are not, matera. Mateo is the meteorite. Meteorite. Yeah. That just passes. Is that one second and gone the other? Exactly. I remember once a person said to me, oh, what a lovely story, terrific story. It was a guy of, of communication and said, now let's do something else. And I said, you didn't need Didn't understand. You didn't understand. For the first year, I didn't do one single communication. I didn't want people to. No. I I I I don't want to feel I'm a great shot about doing this. I'm a regular person that wants to be of a of some help, in the society. I've had a good life. Have a good life. I have a lovely family. Three lovely kids. I'm lucky. I'm them lucky. And some people have not been so lucky like myself. So when you've received a lot from life, you have to also give back. Interesting. I mean, do you think sometimes the wine trade is a little bit, aloof, maybe like other industries, we're very much focused on, you know, our our main discussions of terroir and auction prices and, you know, points scores and things like that. Do you think do you think in terms of you, you know, this this project here, I tried the, very few wine critic I have tasted this wine because I don't ship it to them. I do not want to be said, how good it is? This is a ninety eight, but I'm I'm glad. I'm so glad about it. I don't want. I I don't want to be to be taken on the podium because, the wine is not only is is a good source is is he's good. I think that the wine is good. The wine is, it it deserves attention, it serves the high price that is is sold at. But, this is not a commercial thing. This is about the ethical and responsible. And when you wake up in the morning, you go in the bathroom, and you wash your face, and then you look yourself in the mirror. You ask yourself to have to do something beyond what I'm doing, and to feel I have to excuse myself to so many things I've had of possibly in my life. I hope that people will, understand that, out there, there are some people that they are not lucky. By the way, the inmates, that they are in the island of Gorgona, that people that have nothing to do with sexual crimes. And nothing to do with mafia crimes. So there are mistakes, solid, unfortunately, sometimes blood mistakes, but there are those mistakes that where your brain shuts down for a few minutes and everybody else. Have you ever think that when you ask, you know, you're driving your car and you're they are queuing bumper to bumper. And some brilliant aggressive stupid, or how can you call it? Not a I can't say by a word, but idiot is strong enough. And cuts you. Yeah. And you stay okay. I'm gonna kick this. And you and you should count to ten. And then you should ask yourself those five meters fifteen, whatever, feet, that you lost because a person cut you in, forget, you know, let him go. Unfortunately, an inmate once that he got mad and he punched the person. If you punch hard a person, you can kill him. And if you kill him, your life will also finishes. Yeah. And you go to jail. Very clear. I'm not against. I'm not a street heart. If you do a mistake, you pay for the mistake. I believe that the director of the island twenty twelve told me that after that you've been sentenced to jail, and by the way, they've been judged and you and mister nobody to judge him again. So they've already been judged. You only the purpose of you is to help them not to do a mistake again. Period. So when they leave the island, they have a good pocket money that can be more than a pocket money, between twenty, thirty, forty thousand euros, in their bank account, and they can say no to do another to ten times mistakes. Can you tell me the story? Last time I saw you, maybe the time before, you had a story about leaving money in a wallet, and can you tell me that story? Yeah. No. I I seen that with these, people, you can really give them a wallet with one hundred bill euro and giving the wallet to them or leave it there. And then come after three hours at the end of the day, and the wallet is untouched. Or this person handed me the wallet saying, you left this and You left your wallet lying around here it is. Yeah. Untached. People that they don't have much, money, but, yesterday on the newspaper I read about this, this, guy from senegal that found a Daytona and he was, he gave it back to the owner. And he was hired. It was a newspaper. Yes. So there are some people out there that they have that they are. Fundamentally good, but they make a mistake. They make a mistake. And by the way, the wine is good. And that is a great help. I think it's also important because it also lends credibility. This isn't this isn't just a charity game. This is this is about results, not just organoleptically in our little wine bubble, but actually much more importantly, socially, because our social structures are under enormous strain at the moment, I think. Yeah. Yeah. For various reasons, our climate's under strain, and that's gonna put even more pressure on social structures. You know, who has food and who doesn't? I think what's interesting about what's happening in the west now is we've lived a life of privilege, because we very few, but I mean, some people are poor, obviously, but generally, we have health care, and we have streets and lights and policemen and all the rest of it. And now with climate change, we are gonna start struggling, I think. With, crop supply, for example, with torrential veins. We've seen a Montagino some of the torrential rains. So so we are gonna experience, I think, some of some of those hardships, and it's important that we we realize that we are incredibly fortunate. Yeah. We are incredibly, which have no idea how fortunate we are. Yeah. And, and when we make mistakes, we can they're off minor ones or we can be excused as you said with the the the example of the road, but you know, if you don't have anything and then you punch somebody pretty hard and he falls backwards and breaks his skull, then you thought I didn't really mean to do that was a moment of madness. He's gonna go jail for fifteen years. Yeah. I know you're very attached to your project. Yeah. And, I'm really, really glad you've come in and explained it. Thank you. Really, really great. And, you spoke with great clarity and, and emotion. That's immediately. Listen to all of our pods on SoundCloud, iTunes, Spotify, and on Italianline Podcast dot com. Don't forget to send your tweets to at itaewine Podcast.