Ep. 66 Monty Waldin interviews Wolfgang Raifer (Cantina di Soave) | Italian Wine Coops

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. This podcast has been recorded during Vivite an event organized by the the alliance of Italian corps. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with Me Monty Ward in my guest today. Is Volvang Heifa, and Volvang is the Anologist or one of the Anologists for Cantini Diswabe. Are you the head Anologist? It's my my professor's Anologist, but I'm the vice director of the company to be correct. Right. Okay, sir. And that entails everything based split. Most of it. I'm in the in the in the good position now to can to can learn a few more years, to to get probably in two thousand twenty into the position as a as a general degree. Oh, I like a man that thinks ahead. So where are you, wait, just where are you from briefly? I am from from, Alto Adisia, exactly from, the county of Pappiano. I studied the knowledge there, and I was, winemaker, the winery called Terenzo, then expert manager, then finally director, and now means, since few months, I haven't continued as well. Do you think it's important to have both the knowledge of the marketing side, the business side as well as the winemaking side? I think it is, it's a it is a plus. It's not something you have to have when you are in the winemaking. It does mean that that you know about marketing, that you know about all all the the the the skills that are important there. At my point of view, it helps. Okay. So tell us a little bit about Swave in general, the size, the great varieties, the villages, etcetera, and tell us a little bit about Cantina de suave, which obviously is the biggest producer of the suave wines. So suave is a very old denomination, historical and, already in ancient, Roman time, they they they talked about the suave as a beautiful and great wine. And, of course, the the the history of the grape was always very good. Unfortunately, in the last thirty, thirty, forty years, suave has not having such a good time. I consider Swava as one of the very important white wines of Italy. And we are talking about seven thousand hectares approximately. One thousand five hundred is Soviet classical, means the the hillside area, and the rest is considered, means always a very good area, but not, let's say, the inside of this is so on. So what's the percentage that the cooperative has of swab a production? We are the biggest producer of swab with approximately forty percent of the classical area and forty five percent of the, regular swab a area. So, obviously, you've got a lot of, influence and power on. We have influence, but not only influence. We have also responsibility of the of the area because if you're one of the biggest producer, you have means what you do is, means it's reflect immediately on the on the elimination I'm a big fan of Swave. Yeah. And, honestly, no, I am. And, one thing that I was really impressed by when I was last there was that collectively, you've really done a great job mapping your area, the villages, the terroir, wires that just explain a little bit about the the the different taewas that you have in swab in the volcanic side and the more rides. Yes. So we are in the lucky position to, to our on the on the on the bottom of the apps. And if you use a drive from verona app, means you drive to Tardino Haimans are coming. They're more of car carousel rich, means, deposit of of of sand that finally developed a car carousel. In the swab area, we're we're in a lucky position to have these welcomes, and that made a special size. So we have different types of soil depends very if you are on the on the on the east side of the hills, on the west side of the hills or in the flat area. And so this different type of soil, different microclimate we have to make out a very good mix, for the for the a wine quality itself. And so so Abe always would be a very interesting fresh fruity wine that's good for every occasion, but there's always, a wine that can that can age, means in a in a beautiful way. So what just what are the couple of differences of a swabic organic wine grown on say volcanic soil and one grown on a more limestoney soil? The difference is this is not so big. Finally, what what the aim is for the hillside, the classical side, and the and the regular side is always obtained some which the consumer like very much and understand quite easily because today, a problem we have in the wine business is that the wine producer making the wine is sometimes very, very complex. And so the consumer is a little bit disoriented. And so we try to keep it's implant, to bring out what what what the soil gives us. And so we don't go to explain deeply what is what is the what is the difference. Finally, we look to make wine that are very drinkable and make the make the customer, satisfyna Saava, as I said, is a big player in the survey area, but only, continue. So I was, founded in eighteen ninety eight. So one hundred nineteen years ago, so next year will be one hundred and twenty years old. And in the last over the last years from nine nineteen ninety six starting. We took over several several other Cantinas. So Cantineso Abe, the name, of course, comes from the town, so Abe. This represented not only the the DOCso Abe, but we are a very big player in Babudicello. The information that the very big player was in the other denomination, which is called, which gives the beautiful Spafel mind. For the Balicello. I don't have to say because everybody knows Balicello. We're talking about my Polyicello. We're talking about the pastor. We're talking about about our own. So the responsibility is not only about about the Savate denomination, but also the denomination of the Balpolicella and the Laissenitoire. So you basically you basically got some of the crown jewels of Italian wine. Yeah. You can say that. Yeah. Totally. Cooperative continues to have it. And we have approximately two thousand five hundred growth. It's six thousand hectares of total area. So we have one of the biggest hopes that we have in it. How are you using to if I'm one of your growers? Yep. What technology are you using to help me improve migrates. I would not say technology. We we use a human factor, which is, we have a lot of, people that that support our growers. We have the chief economist, which is a, is a very knowledgeable man about soave, soave area, and all what's around, but with the challenges in itoello. It mainly said the human support that we give you. It's not a technique. But we have the this guy that go out from means all over the year, from the pruning of the mines, in the harvest, to to recommend what you should do during the year to obtain healthy and ripers. One of the lovely things I think about, suave, is some of your vines are on the Pergala system, the overhead system. Now I understand that for some people, that's a little bit less popular because it is more labor. Are you seeing a trend for growers to get rid of the pergola? Maybe it's out of the state is growing. I think I think that, of course, you have always to consider the the place where we grow your wines, and then you have to consider, and then you can consider the the growing system. We have our training system, especially in the in the Swava area for the white wines, but also in some in some parts for the for the Balpolicella in our point of view. That's a good job. Okay. So what are the typical flavors in a in a swab a white wine. So white wine is, first of all, it's it's freshness, combined with citrus fruit, combined with with almond, the taste, that's what what what you can most define. Then I have also to say that you are different from from me, different from Lena different from all the people. So everybody taste also, has also different taste. So it's difficult to really to describe, a wine. On the on the palate side, always a good acidity, fresh acidity not to not to too intense, and then a very, a very pleasing finish. What about sustainability? You've made a lot of effort, in terms of sustainability. We try to keep it and enforce it in the vineyard, but also in the in the cellar. In the cellar, it's it's it's quite easy for us because we we did huge investments over the last year, and we are still seeing them. We want to have more efficiency in the in the in the cellar. That means that we spend less energy. And so it's it's a way to be sustainable in in making the wine and in, processing everything. And then on the other side, we have the winemaking. I mean, sorry, the the vineyards where we are we we are going ahead with the integrated Viticulture. This means we do what we have to do, but as less as possible in terms of of, treatments against the fungus, insects, and so on. Is there more of a move towards organics, or is that too difficult? We have some projects that are going on. We have a lot of things in mind. We will show in the next, years the focus will be on that because quality and, sustainability in the vineyards are my point of view, one of the most order things. But the other side, we have to be also very realistic in what we can do in which language. Do you think the slower approach is the better approach rather than saying to everybody, look, in five year's time, you're all gonna be organic? No. You have to be you have to push a little bit. It's not something that that that they grow us to when you say maybe you should do it, nothing happens. So you have you have to be a little bit, sharp and say, now you have to do this and this and this, but of course, you cannot push them. So you you have to think that we have very professional growers that maybe have, twenty or thirty hectares. So they are very professional. They work in the vineyards all the day. And then we have also smaller smaller growers that have one hectare and so they are not standing, all the day in the vineyard. Maybe they have another job, and, they can do the job, the, the, the, the, the, the work only, and we can. That's have to consider many things. Okay. Tell us a little bit about your brands. Your top brand is the Roca Sweva. What why the name? Roca Sweva, is the name that the Sweva, it did it comes from, from Sohave. It's one of the regional of of Sohave. Morocco. What's Morocco? Morocco is the name of a castle. So it's it's two names that are connected and that what that was the the name that was chosen thousand three when a winery was was founded. So if you got that wrong, that would have all gone in my report, on the interview. Okay. Okay. So Mhmm. No. Because I'm with the with the company since March two thousand and seventeen. So there's no no no no excuses there. That's really great. Rocus, Vever, anyway. Okay. That's okay. Let's see. It's our it's our it's our top brand where we have me a smaller a smaller grape receivement area where we pick the grapes in in small bins. And so we have a different, approach and the different speed that we have to have to to to work the the grapes. We have more time to fry. We have more time to leave the the wine on the fine leaves. We have more time to leave, the red wines on the oak. So it's it's a slower way to work to work with the with the with the with the wine itself. But of course, rockets we have a maybe today represent a small percentage of of, Cantina, this Huawei, the idea tomorrow is, of course, to to grow that part. But to grow that part means also to approach the market in a certain way. So what what what is the approach in the market? The approach in the market is, as you know, the market means since, several years, the the the wine market is struggling a little bit. Of course, everybody wants to make top wine that costs a lot because, he get more money from them. And so that market is a little bit busy. Also, here, you need a little bit of slower approach. Listen to let people know to let to let people know what is so hard because in fact, today. If you look, in Italy, maybe against the export market, it's always more well known outside than in Italy. In Italy, it's always known maybe in the north of Italy, in the south, not so much. So what we have to do and what continues Harvey, but also the consortium has to do is to communicate a lot about Saabe. What is Saabe? In the Italian market. I believe that a brand gets strong when it's strong and, at home. Is that a controversial view? I mean, that's spotting. Controversial means we are doing we're doing a lot of things outside means we are we are flying to Japan. We are flying to means the market that are very far away. It's important to do that too, but, as you know, means we have a lot of tourists in Italy. And if they come Italy. Don't don't they don't see the product. It's not so good. I think. So if they see that the pop the product is very popular also in the region, it's in the in the in the country itself. It's good publicity for the for the So you'll be looking mainly at the entree, like restaurants, wine bars, with regards to Viva, for sure. And then you have different brands where means the size we have, the volume we do, we have to look of course, of course, for the for the for the, we call it in Italy, the the the canali moderno, which is off trade means off trade channel because the is is is stand out. But would you focus on like the coastal areas? Obviously, you know, you you're surrounded by water of seafood, suave with seafood. Oh, soave. Soave, my point of view is is is a wine which is not it's not so strong. If if I take for example, aromatic grape, like you build camin or like sauvignon. It's it's very strong. Yeah. One glass is enough. And one glass can be enough, but it's also difficult to match. Maybe it's more difficult to match with the food. Swave has a strong character, but it's it's it's a cracker that allows you to to to match more with the food. And so I think Sava could be sold everywhere finally. Today, people are not are not requesting from the list. They are not buying the one from the list. Yeah. So if you if you have a list, if you have to solve in the list, It's not so much, so so higher request. I think that's a shame. I mean, some people say that Gardania is a little bit of a rustic. Right? I I don't necessarily agree. I think the potential of of Gagania grape is is huge because out of the Gagania grape, you can make a beautiful, So we're talking about scrumante. You can do also, metrotalicennale, which is maybe less popular or not. So you can make a very fresh wine that that that you drink in one year or two years, but then you can reduce also some Winds with w huge agent potential. Yeah. Those those I mean, some of the ones with those live standards. The job would be, our job will be to to show to the customer all that positive facts that you can that you can do with the guyana here. Yeah. I mean And as I said, we have many, many, many wine regions around in Italy. We have many, many, many different varieties, and everybody wants to communicate. And so you have to communicate better and and more as the other regions do. So, yeah, when I grew when I was growing up in the wine trade a long, long, long, long time ago, Swave was one of those names that Suave or we had to Fascati with just those benchmark Italian wines that got much were much criticized sometimes justifiably so, but for me, they're just the key brands for Italy. And when they're made well, they're outstanding. It's just, you know, where where what went wrong. I think that there was, policy that that that was only for the for the short period and that's for the for the minimal long period. So the maybe the sales going down, what are you doing? You're giving more discounts or you're selling the wine for lower price and so the step by step that So our went down and and became one of the one of the cheaper Italian white wines. And, once you have that image, it's difficult to to grow in a few years. And still today, we have some players on the market that, are not behaving in a proper way. And so you see some bottles of soave in the shelf for a very, very, little money. And and then consumer say, why should I pay ten euro, fifteen euro, twenty euro bottle of soave if soave in my mind costs not more than three or four. Well, Voltering Eiffel, that is your job. You're an onologist. You know about the production side. You know about the marketing side. You know about the management side. That is your task. How are you? It will come back three years time. Now, three years now is a little bit it's a little bit too less, but I'll do my best to to to to to to to put so have a in the position where where, I think it should be. Yeah. I'll give you four years. No. No negotiations. Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay. It's a deal. Okay. Really nice to meet you. I'm gonna come meet you. Come back up to the better term. See you guys sometime. Yeah. That will be a pleasure. Thanks very much for coming in today, welcome. Really nice to and have a good time. Thank you. 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