Ep. 75 Monty Waldin interviews Matteo Cremonini (Le Chiantigiane) | Italian Wine Coops

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. This podcast has been recorded during Vivite an event organized by the the alliance of Italian corps. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me Monti. Hello. From the Lake Cantigiana in, the region of Canti in Tuscany. What is lake Cantigiana? Le Cantigiana is a way of concern to set up in ninety six in sixty seven in Tuscany, and it's, the most important task kind of competitive in the region. And, it's, the most important, producers are currently in Tuscany. It seems that we produce about two more than six million bottles per year. Well, then we have also nations. This is data that can confirm it. I believe it's the district national data that confirm that. So it's six million. So your cooperative makes six million bottles of Cantaria. It's like So what is the total production of the Kia? It's a DOCG Canti. What is the total production of the Kienti DOCG? Fifty, twenty, the imported spring. So you have about, you know, thirty, twenty five to thirty percent of the whole of the the production of county. And the county, it's, Natalia wine, it's, a region where we produce, great white from Tuscany. And, decision is between the provinces of Siena for warrants in Pestoya. Also, there there are more here in the province of Siena and Ari. So all can see it's a blend from the different, from different vineyards in the different provinces since, Kentigiana has four beneficial wineries, all around the these provinces. Where are the main ones then? Over at quarter is located in Tabaneda dedicated. It's a small village between the town of Sienna in the south and the city of Florida in the north. And, in our quarter, we fish to pick up our wine and we bottle them. It's all bottle in Tavenerial Dipeza. Yeah. And also, we have another winery in the south of Tuscany. Near the season, we had Marima. It's a very nice where we have another button center. For which type of wine is that then? That we produce, or more lino based wine. So more lino, what is more lino? More lino, it's an important it's an important wine in the South of Tuscany. It's not really know, as the county, but, it's another another special wine from Tuscany. What's the main grape, though? Ingrid, we do some merlena. It's a sangiovese, but other grape varieties can be I did, in a small amount. Oh, Muralina, it's a one hundred percent Sanjay. Quite strong. It's about thirteen and a half degree hard call, and it's a forty. It's, all satanix. So it's a very good sevy with a little kind of strong food. So, basically, you've got two jobs. Right? Yeah. You're the export guy. Yeah. Because I I got the gradation, on origin with Ticatos, five years ago. So you know everything, basically, you know that you're you're a neurologist, your multiculturalist, and you're a export manager. Yeah. My first, job, it's the export manager now. You're an export manager, and often export managers are very good at selling, but they don't know much about the really, they don't really know much about the winemaker or the bitter culture. How much of an advantage is that for you? Yeah. For me, it's, an advantage because, I I know how every white that we produce is produced. So I can explain exactly to the customer how we produce, the different wines so the customer can understand better how we prepare them. So what are the challenges in the vineyard in terms of with climate change. And, obviously, Cantis had an interesting history with initially, it was all tuscan grapes. Them allow were allowed the bordeaux grapes in the in the nineteen seventies with the sort of super tuscan pressure. What what is going on in the vineyards now with climate change? What are the trends? Since the the climate is coming to be always much hotter and drier than in the past. I mean, we have to find a strategy and, also great varieties that could be stronger in that kind of climate or, just, prepared the vineyards during during the years, in order to to have an entire system to to the sun, to the to the temperature. So does that mean that we'll see an end to grape varieties like merlot, for example, which don't really like a lot of heat. And maybe more Sierra in in Canti. Yeah. You could see that near Florence. No. No. Maybe Sanjorie. Of course, also Alyanigo. It's particularly. Right? Is it grown in the south of Italy? Busili Carta. Yes. So you really think Alallianica would work well in Tuscany in the county region? It's interesting. It's a great, great. Maybe in the south of Tuscany, it could be possible. Like in Muddlian, or you were talking in that area on the coast and the very warm coast. Have you tried? Have you done some trials then with Alianico? I've tried Alianico. On its own. How was the one? So where were the vines planted? Where was this Alianico test. Maraima in, here in Montecucco. There are Sanvenues of Alianico. It's the grape, are bested too late. So in the normal years, there is no time for the grape mutilation. This is could be problem. But all the the previous years, was too hot, to dry, and the summer was really long. Also in the helping, there was, hotter conditions. So this kind of climate condition, this kind of plates with good work. So for those of you that don't know Montecucco is a is a is a is a Montacino is a big and a Montecucco is a hill opposite it. And Alianico comes from basilicata on the Volterre, which is a volcanic, beach, right, hype. So it's interesting that you're putting the Alianic, nega on, Monteguga, which is another mountain, a Tuscan mountain. It'd be interesting to see how that, how that works. We are trying to understand the customers, the this preference. Because we understood that in the last few years that the frame customer prefer Zwitter Canti. All or Canti we have in Tuscany, to dry or yes, particular, but always dry and it's not really appreciated, from the the foreign customers. So we started in the last few years to produce winter candy, sweeter Fruter using particular, denification methods. How, I mean, how much sweetness are we talking? Like, three grams of sugar, four grams of sugar. Yeah. Yeah. There are some limits in the gentle roots. Yes. And so we, of course, we stay under the there's limits. So you just what you mean it's still a a dry wine but just a little bit of sweetness to make it easier to to drink. We we make longer fermentation, longer the skins stay longer in contact with the the liquids. So with this kind of methods, you obtain an higher level or almost, food diplomacy in the finished minds, and we are increasing also of anti selling, in the world for this season. So which markets have responded best to having a county that's just a little bit more free? You were talking about the Scandinavian markets, the German market, Yeah. Yeah. Not the European markets. Also, in the United States and Canada prefer this kind of wines. Maybe in China prefer the Italian the Italian Cantis. So The classic version. The classic version of the dryer one. And also for the classical, we are approaching, the defecation in the same methods because the customer can understand the effects between Cant and Canticlassico. And, going in the frame markets, we start to help the customer to understand the kenti classifies as a more production year where we have a lower yield character from the grapes. What do you think of the role of white grapes? Traditionally kenti and kenti classical was met were made with the white wine grapes as well. Now with with climate change, is it time to rethink that instead of putting merlot or cabernet sauvignon in there? It's getting hotter. Those grapes, I've made wine in water. They're not I don't think they're suited to to tuscany. I'm sorry. I'm not gonna change my mind on what what about saying is maybe we can have some mild get back malvasia Bianca and some of these are white wine grapes to to lighten candy a bit without losing any authenticity seeing as this was the original recipe, what would you think about that? Would would it would it be a step backwards for you, a step back into the past, or would you think that's a sensible idea. No. Maybe it could be better to feed in the future. This is what they all introduce Kianti, and, we have to understand what the customer is asking for. And so for this reason of Canty wines, have to be, performed. Okay. Right. Mateo, how old are you? Thirty one. Right. Okay. So you're incredibly young, and you've got incredible responsibility. One of the things I see with cooperative wine growing in Italy is the demographic is often I get this impression that all old men with with caps and baggy blue trousers, not young men like you, with iPhones. In this few years, I I walk in with a hand designer. I had and, a lot of opportunities to know, or wine growers, but I Yeah. I know that a lot of them, are quite all all people, but they are interesting and to understand, I always can't see grapes could be how the quality level the contagionee Gapes would be improved. Because they have a lot of experience. What do you how can how can we help with the law, legislation, or or financial incentives, to encourage young people that don't have a job to go and work in in some of these, Cantijani vineyards not just let this older generation die with no no successes. And we'll see these vineyards turned over to apartment blocks or housing or car parks or We it would be more opportunity for young people to get trying time inside the winery, and then the should have more possibilities to enter in enter in the world of of the winery. Could be better if some some bullshit can be about ID? Good luck. Yeah. That's not easy. It's not easy. Yeah. Okay. Have we forgotten anything, mateo? Yeah. What's all? Yeah. Yep. So Bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Le Cantigiana. It's a consult. I already said that it's a white consortium, or, and, we have more than two two thousand associated Wading rubber for more than two thousand five hundred hectares of productivity vineyards in in that of Tuscany from between the province of Santa Ford and Pestoya, OT in the Himali area. And also, we have three hundred hectares in the South Tuscany in Marima. We produce Omorrelino. So we have a a new future portfolio wines from Tuscany from the the red and white agitated of scanners, the candy can to reserve a quetzicle. We also have a particular small production for the Brunary Montecuccino, and the number of the multiple channel on the burglary. Also, it's a little tuscany. We produce some nice top more elino. It's the super tuscans. So the two super tuscans are coming from well. Did you make super tuscant wines in Kianti in Morolino and Bulgaria? Or is it just Super more elino in, in, South tuscanos has super Mario. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's me. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Super. Sorry. Super model. I didn't mean to be with you. It's my way to to explain the difference between uh-uh or more lena wines because we have a a more lena based wine, and the more linear. It's a the first one is is a younger. It's a So no oak. No. We without talk. Mhmm. The second one is stronger, and we hope the second one stays in the October for more than one year. How strict are you with? I mean, I say I tasted a lot of tuscum wine that's been aged in oak and often that we have problems with, oxidation and Brett, pretendomyces. Yeah. How fanatical are you as a as a you're a sales guy? You gotta sell the wine and you and you oversee the winemaking. What can you do to make sure that the wineries that you work with are hygienic, that they understand, how important the keeping the wineries clean and eliminating bad barrels? What do you do to to make sure that happens? This is the first important thing. It's to be sure that all the the winery, not not only the inside part of the tank. The tank of the barrel is green. Every part of the winery, the the floor, the walls should should be clean. It's really important to avoid bacteria or all, fungal diseases. It's it's really important. Okay. So what's the what's next for Kent Lake Antigiani? What's your next project that you're gonna work on? We are starting to put it to study and produce new wines from the start of Tuscany. We start to produce Freda GT governor. It's, a new wine produced in the same method, of the Porticello Repasso. We after the first fermentation, we put the the dry skin, on the wine, and we have a second fermentation. And this is where we obtain a wine, food, and sweeter. And also part of this wine going in the bar So we have, a really complex wine. So what's the great main grape variety for this? I mean grape Braggi is Sanjuviso because for us, Sanjuviso, it's, it's really important. Sanjuviso, it's, the wine used to produce candy used to produce more you know? The blend is what? It's eighty percent Sanjuveza. For the county, it's a For the Gueverno. It's about one hundred percent Sanjuveza. For the county, we have a blend between Sanjuveza and Canada, about the eighty five percent Sanjuveza and fifteen percent kind earlier because the time it's the wines, and so and the structure. Instead, kind of, you know, you're an arrow gives an higher anti chance level. So more color and more sweeter, Ramos. So instead for the Gueverno, we only use sangiovese grapes. Okay. So when you finish the wine, the Gueverno, the wine making, what is roughly the analysis? How much alcohol and how much residual sugar does it have? How hardcore, it's around thirty point five. There's a two way is not too high. It's around four or five grams per liter, but, this kind of notification method makes the winds more round, more sweeter. And and, customer linearized this new wine. Yeah. I'm sure they do. And it's a true, very traditional style as well, isn't it? Because the Gubano methods is the for the first, documentation matters because the second time. So when was the first Corverno made in Tuscany roughly in the fifteenth century? Maybe, yeah, maybe. Yes. And Val Pollicello Ripaso is what? Is it twentieth, late nineteenth century thing, hundred years ago? Yeah. Maybe one hundred years later. Yep. So, yeah, the in the last few years, Quinti generally start working with, other important region of Italy, and we produce, important wines from a BRutso, a Montecout channel, the Broutso, also from Umbria. Orvieto and Orvieto Casico, also from Sicily, Nero, Dowell and Grillo. And in last few years, we start to commercialize two important wines from Sardinia. A canal for for the red one. Good. And the Vermont for the white wine. So it's interesting that you're, called Kianti Johnny, but you're broadening your your wine off by associating yourself with these other wines. That just gives you more power in the market. Yeah. Yeah. And economy of scale. Customer can come to us and ask for a huge portfolio of wines, not only Tuscany wines, but they're asking for double wines, for wines from other other regional eateries. So what are your favorites? You you've now you can taste all these different wines. You're not allowed choose Kianti. I put you on a desert island. Okay. And you can only choose one white and one red from either Sicily or umbria, all the places. What are you gonna choose? Maybe for that one, I choose I choose use, or super tuscan. You're not allowed to choose tuscany. You can choose one of these other non tuscan wines, which would you choose, one white and one red? What are your favorites? For for the red, at at the same level, I I should choose the the nearest double multi butcher on the boat, sir, because, I release the special wines. And the white. And for the white, the vermantino from Sandenium, but also we have to remember it's, it's better than, Vermontmantino. It's a cheaper wine, but it's really it's really nice, and it's food. There are a lot of flower, flowers, notes. Yeah. I love what I ought to be able to. It's another wine that needs, rediscovering, I think. It's a classic wine that is not as well known now as it used to be. Okay. Mateo cremini. Great talk to you. Nice to hear about all your projects. It's always fascinated to meet somebody that does two things, it does the production side and the marketing and sales side, which means that you have a fantastic overview of the whole process, that is involved in putting a bottle of wine on the shelf and selling So, well done you. You're a young lad. You got a great future. Just, hope you can get some more of, more people of your age into the vineyard. So we got an a next generation of winegrowers coming through. Really nice to meet you. Thank you very much. From me too, thanks for Yeah. No worries. It's been a great pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. This episode has been brought to you by Vin Italy twenty eighteen, taking place in Verona from April fifteenth to eighteenth. Vin Italy is the wine exhibition that helped to discover and get to know Italian wine and features over four thousand two hundred wineries. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.