Ep. 181 Monty Waldin interviews Simon Taylor (Stone, Vine & Sun) | Italian Wine Personalities

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian White Podcast. My name is Walter Walden. My guest today is Simon Taylor. Simon is the founder owner of a company called Stonevine and Son, as in S UN, a wine importer, based in Hampshire, a little village Twiford, which is near Winchester, which used to be the capital of England at about eight hundred years ago. Simon Welcome. Welcome. Thank you very much. Right. So stonevine and Son, how did that all start? It started in two thousand and two. I decided I wanted to be a wine merchant. I loved wine my whole life and made the insane decision to give up a really well paid job, working with art to work with wine. So when you say working with art, a little bit more, I used to work at Sotheby's. I used to write auction catalogs, and I work in a wine merchant and I write wine lists. Right. Okay. I mean, why did you decide to make that change? Give me a bit more detail on that. Were you bored? We you just made your several millions of thought you'd throw out all around a wine import company and that the latter is more or less accurate, but I had done twenty three years in one company. I knew I was never gonna be there forever, and I want to do something new with my life. And are you from the Winchester area right here? Not originally, but I've known the area all my life. Yes. But you went to school there? I did go to school. And you were quite that's which is like one of England's most exclusive school, but full of brain boxes who often go on to become prime ministers. Obviously, you let the side down rather badly. Definitely. But it's Winchester is an interesting town because it's close enough to London to have people, a lot of people who commute, so they thought they have London incomes, but those people often want to spend their money locally on wine. So you're mainly focused on the Ronne. Is that correct? The Ronne and Longedoc rousier was how we started. But we've been through a big change because we had customers coming to us and saying, why didn't you have any border? Why didn't you have any Italian wine? So we broadened out a lot from that. And Italy is now my absolute passion. In part because of Italy because it makes it so easy to come here and get an education. If, you know, now my pattern, I come every year, every year I try to add one or two estates. This year, I want to try and find someone in Garvey and so I go through the book. I go and find small producers. I talk to them. I taste the wine. And usually we add one or two new estates each year. Oh, you you occasionally pop into Montagena, which is where I live. Yes. Huntinging down. Many years ago, I came to Bruno, to the Benvenuti Brunello Festival festival, which again is a great Italian. That's that's sort of on prima wine tasting for mainly for professionals. Yep. Not for professionals on a Sunday. Everybody who'd ever once tasted a glass of Montalcino was definitely there on the Sunday. Everybody who'd ever once tasted a glass of Montalcino was definitely there on the Sunday Well, that's when the public will add in and it does tend to get a little bit rowdy. Yeah. That's to say. So are you, I mean, this sort of new love for Italian one? You're gonna change the name to, a sort of stone violence on Pietro vite solle or not. It sounds much better in Italian, but it's It's actually probably difficult. Right? I mean, the origins of the name is because we wanted to sell wine that reflected literally, you know, the the the earth, the stone, degraded stone, the earth, the plant, and the weather. So we wanted to sell wines that had a sense of place rather than being made in a huge industrial factory. And does that did obviously, that helps that you as you said earlier, that winchester is quite a wealthy, well-to-do place where people are prepared to spend money on on on top quality? Yes. At the same time, it's quite a conservative area. So people do like a lot of people still want to drink red bordeaux. It's an important part of what we do. But at the same time, they are also increasingly open minded, especially younger people. They don't actually mind where the one the wine comes from. If the story is good and if the taste is good. That's what counts. So what kind of story turns people on regard as regard to, is it the kind of third generation that none of the granddad started it? That kind of thing or was it something a little bit deeper than that? Yeah. But in a way in the UK market, there are two Italys. In one Italy, it's occupied by Pina Grillo and echo, and these are both huge sellers. The other is really to me all the interesting stuff, which is a large number of organic producers or biodynamic producers or even natural producers. A large number of those small production people often combining ten hectares of vines with some agriturismo, and some maybe growing olives as well. Small scale, perfect for my business, which is small. So there is a congruence between the two of us. And great labels, of course, Italy has such a design ethos. I mean, actually as part of the country has this great sense of design. So Italian labels tend to be so much better than the French wine labels, for example, just more sexy, more stylish. More stylish. And then what's in the bottle, interestingly, I think has remained better value. In France, there has been, in contrast to France, where there's been a lot of price inflation over the last few years. Prices in Italy have remained pretty fair. You know, from the buying point of view, I believe we can buy better and buy more interesting wines in Italy than in large areas of France now. Right. Well, you won't be allowed to, cross the channel ever again, you know, just divert. You have to drive through Joan get down to it later in the future. But that's maybe not not such a bad thing. So how much time can you spend, in Italy hunting wines? And how do you do it? Do you make phone calls first? Do you have a plan? You just do it, pot luck? Fin Italy is a very, very important part of it. So I will often make the initial contacts at Vin Italy. But at the same time, I do travel through Italy, and I will be going to see a number of our producers, in the second half of May. But for finding new things, I'm afraid the easiest way to taste a wide variety of wines very quickly is to come to Vin Italy. Right. So you do a lot of homework before you before you arrive. Yes. Absolutely. So what are you important? What are your criteria then? Is it price? Is it style? Is it sweetness levels? Telling levels? The research is mainly focused. I'm afraid on two things. One, finding people who are recommended within the Italian market in guidebooks such as Gamberry Roso and the slow wine book, which is very important. But you have to have the Italian edition, not the English language edition, which is much slimmer. So you get more detail then. Absolutely. Secondly, as you say price, a thirdly, is it widely distributed in the UK already? There's no point me going out to try and find somebody who's who's got five importers already. So, and you're an and also small scale. In France, we do work with some cooperative saves. I don't work with any co operators in Italy yet. Okay. But you're hoping to change that? We're still too small, really. We're still too small. Do you do any own label stuff? Would you like to do a stone run and sun couvet? No. We're we're too small. You need to buy several minimum of, say, three hundred dozen of one wine, and we're still just too small for that. So, I mean, how important is the Italian sort of food aspect when you're selling wine in in winter to in the surroundings? The p you just let people get on with it, or do you give them some advice? It's really interesting you say that. Because when we do most of our tastings, we do without food. We just give people dry biscuits. But very often, if we do a tasting Italian wine, we will put out, different types of salami, we will put out cheese because so many Italian red wines really, really do need food to show their best. Do you think people in in the UK are becoming more accepting of wines that are a little bit sort of fresher, not necessarily tannic, but have a bit of have a bit of VIM and grip to them as Italian wines do tend to do? Yes. And alcohol levels are becoming increasingly important. Funly enough not so much in the UK as a whole, but in London, people are really looking for twelve, thirteen percent wines. You know, I think fresher lighter styles are cutting edge fashion in London. I didn't know how long that will last, but that's where we are now. So is that really sort of wine by the glass? People wanna have one glass and not have not fall over before they get their train home. But it's also a mash of style. It's also there's a revival, for example, in Baujolais, in drinking Bojolais. So it's more fresher lighter styles, sappy wines, things like valpolicella, frapato, rifosco, that sort of style is actually quite popular. But more, as I say, in a metro at an area. What about Lambrusco? Not too alcoholic. I've never heard Lambrusco. Oh, you gotta go there. I've not. You have to go there. No. We do experiment. I I ship a piña litter now. Alright. Well, that's good. When she I'm hoping, which I'm hoping, no, a sparkling. Which I'm hoping will it's much better than a cheaper prosecco, but unfortunately, it lacks the name. So at the moment, we're still struggling to sell it. You won't be invited up to the Venatoe to go to the prosecco region if you say things like that. You do know that, don't you? And you're so diplomatic up to now. It's all gone, right? You're buying careers It's gonna hit the buffers mate. Alright. So obviously lighter styles, in terms of, Alcor, what about Canon profiles in reds? Well, that's very interesting. It professionals, this is a this is a problem because professionals in the wine trade like Tannic wines, but a lot of customers don't, especially a lot of younger consumers who have been brought up starting to drink new world styles wines from Chile, wines from Australia, wines from Australia, which tend to have, if they have much tannin, they tend to be very right, very soft tannin. I'm very smooth. And very smooth, very fruity, very dense, very smooth. So actually, that is at the opposite end of the spectrum from, say, quite a light Italian style with real acid bite and and proper pan it cleansing tannin. But at the same time, you mentioned food. It does go hand in hand in a way with a food revolution. I often say to people, I mean, pork has got so much better in Britain. You can get absolutely fantastic port now that ten years ago, was just not for sale. And Italian wines are perfect with roast pork or belly even. So that is a pairing that I really push and promote. So they cut through the fat, those wines. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. What about, dessert wines? Is that a or things like that. Resciotto de la vallecelles is is a wonderful style, but fairly expensive. We also ship Resciotto de la suave other than that, of course, there are the cheaper sweeter muskets. But the the the Resciotto de la suave, I think, deserves to be better known. And what do you drink with or what would you recommend? But it's not really sweet enough for pudding. The the problem in Britain is that people call these wines, pudding wines. So they want to drink them with a pudding. And most sweet wine, whether it's middle or anywhere else, is not really sweet and recommend cheese. Yeah. Now our cultural, knowledge in terms of, matching sweet wine with, dessert is if we're a little bit behind, aren't we? In Italy, you drink them with a with a knob of cheese? Absolutely. That would be absolutely. I recommend that. Any particular English cheeses that you wanna push for a ricciotto? Something firm. Yes. It's it's not I wouldn't I don't think it's quite got enough acidic bite for the blue cheese for that saltiness. I would skip for something a little bit milder. Yeah. Or even a mild goat cheese. Really? Yeah. Great. Okay. Anything else you wanna add? Other than that, Italy, it's what's so exciting about Italy is there's more and more and more to be discovered. And every year I come, I find something that I a great variety that I've never heard of, a region that is through perhaps Harvard doesn't young people really forging ahead. And it's important not just to come here and have targets, but also just to wonder and taste where things catch your eye. Really? Isn't it doing that? Well, especially in the No. Vevito, which is Vevito. So, basically, VINiti is the world's largest, wine fair, and there's a section at the there's a huge, it's the size of, like, a massive airport. And at the there's a huge hall full of organic biodynamic and natural producers called Vevite, which is living vine, if you like. And that looks like where you're off to go. Yeah. You know, Italy does lead the world in terms of natural wine, if you enter that kind of thing. And also, the main natural wine group here, Van Natura is really into analyzing, people's wines to make sure they're not cheating because there's no independent television, just some detail there. I think that's very commendable. I I I have a problem with bad natural. I arrived last night. We go into a wine bar. We have a glass of natural soave, very hazy. I really don't want to drink a wine that tastes of a hamsters cage. Yeah. The breadte wines. Yeah. But Yeah. That that is that is a bit of a problem. I think when they're done well, I think non interventionism is great, but you need to have knowledgeable non interventionism. I think we're on the same page there. I think those wines can dry out very quickly and they're pretty hard to drink. But obviously you're looking for something with a bit more fruit and a bit more, a bit more clarity. Yeah. So Simon takes Taylor from Stonevine and Sun, which you are you gotta change the name to the Italian name. You can't just call it Stonevine and Sun. So I I can see I can see a list. I can see a list forming here when we'd next to a presentation of Italian wine. Yeah. Because these three words, you got you got a dictionary. You know, these are very of education, you can work it out. You know, you you convince your clients to change the name. Anyway, Simon Taylor, thanks very much for coming today. It's been great to see you and, wish you the very best for the rest of in Italy. Thanks very much, Monty. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.