Ep. 500 Gill Gordon-Smith | Italian Wine World

Stevie e il suo ginocchio Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Monte Gordon. My guest today is Jill Gordon Smith. Jill is based in her native Australia and swapped a very happy career in the airline industry for small scale wine growing in her native Australia and also wine education. Joy, it's great to speak with you again. You are a living and breathing act acronym. You're a great student. You're a great teacher. So, hopefully, you're gonna tell us a little bit about your previous career and then how you got into wine because you're not having your own vineyard. So I've had a few incarnations in my lifetime. So I grew up in McLaren and, was in the wine industry when I was quite young. So working cellar door at fifteen illegally. And I somehow ended up in the area for Qantas, flying with Qantas for twenty years, and flying around the world, tastes sting and, trying, you know, different wines. And it's alright? So you were just telling me just a little bit about your early days. Yes. My my flying flying career, flying drinking. I've actually flew around the world just casting and visiting different wine regions just actually, you know, it was fantastic. I called it the Qantas scholarship because it just kept giving. And, I left in, in two thousand and nine and went back, jumped back into wine. In quite a big way, and, started a new table could fall from grace, also a bottle shop, which sold international wines. So that was sort of, memory intervention wise too in McCarrenburg, which was a bit of a a very interesting thing to do. We're trying to have one makers come and taste wines and pour them down the gutter because they, weren't used to the different flavors or, you know, couldn't imagine those sorts of wines, but we've been ten years now. The region. Sorry. That must have been quite a big thing in those days. The fact that you'd, you know, you live in a a very well known, a very well respected wine region in Australia. You travel the world. You fell in love with wine more, you know, via your airline experience, and then you come back and sort of saying educating the natives, but you've obviously been a force for, including a force for sort of diversity, really. For sure. Because I we've now been in business for ten years, and we've, you know, got a bottle shop now and a big tasting garden and and bar. And we're the place where the locals now come to search out those sorts of wines, which is fantastic, but it, you know, wasn't always like that. But especially because, you know, with Clarenvale, we've been well, eighty percent of Mcclarenvale Charrez, and, we've about six percent per nation. In those days, we were just starting to plant alternate varieties. Mark Floyd was planting Sanjay, of course, we spent a long time initially. We had, alternate varieties being planted here, which was fantastic for the veil. And I think really started to show that innovative side because, you know, we're we're a coastal region. We're not very far from the sea. In fact, when you look down from the top of the Victory Hotel, which is our big hub, which has got a fantastic fella, you can, it swear you're in Sicily or Sardinia. It's just sort of, you know, really beautiful region and one that's been embraced alternative varieties and a region that's very Italian in nature. So we have the barossa, which is very German. It's interesting that you've planted multiple Chiano in your in your little vineyard. I mean, you talk about the sea, you on you got the sea on one side in Australia where you are and also hills on the other, which is not dissimilar. Yeah. And so does that was that why you planted multiple Chano because it reminded you of of Abruzza It look, I think we're at the time. There was just we're just looking for varieties that could handle the heat and didn't need, you know, a lot of water, and Italian varieties really sort of fit the bill. And also we have about six hundred people from Italian descent living in McCarabelle. So it was a very Mediterranean area. So it sort of fitted our food, those sort of styles of wines, fitted our lifestyle. And, now I think, you know, we we've got about forty eight growers growing Naradabala. We've we're growing multiple channel. We're growing lots of sangabese now. Do you other sort of different interesting whites, Vianos become a fantastic white for McCaramel because we're not a region well known for our white wines. I think, you know, there's only about one decent shot now that we make in the regions. So we're really a bit of red wine regions. So Italian grapes submitted training varieties have made a real difference and been embraced by some amazing winemakers. When did the Italian influx begin? Was it in the last century or was it later than that? For Italians coming into miss Parneville in the forties, really, when a lot of Italians settled in the region. I mean, they'd always they came into it. A lot of Italians came into Australia, sort of been, the the gold rush and then in the forties. So in McCaribel especially, we had a lot of Italians settled here because they, you know, reminded them of home. So we have a lot of people from, Melissa and the Brooks I live in here. And, yeah, we have, a really awesome lifestyle. Lots of olive olive olive groves says, you know, amazing olive olive oil, grown here. Lots of really great, you know, seafood. And, yeah, a pretty good lifestyle actually. It's actually been a reasonable place to be locked down. So the, I mean, the Italian contingents already keep on about this, but do they do they also They also sort of cook Italian as well. So I'm Oh, absolutely. Give us some typical dishes that they cook and and with your local wines as well as, you know, Italian wines, some food, some of your favorite food. We're sort of, you know, we have lots of amazing wood fired pizza restaurants here. We have lots of squid. So beautiful, soft and pepper squid is just fantastic. It's just caught in the golf cart here. Lots of faster. It's really we have it. We actually have a botchy club and once a month to have a big pasta bake up. So, we have, yeah, some fantastic restaurants, old seasonal food, like, slopin' in. I don't know. Did you come to the have you been to the slopin' in when you came to McCaramel? I don't remember that. No. Just a fantastic regional restaurant, just using, you know, amazing produce. You, and it goes really well with with the wines that we grow here. Tell me about your, love of, studying and your love of, teaching. Yes. I really I do. I really love to study. I love to challenge myself. I'm sort of, fairly competitive with myself. And, You are you are a walking acronym. You know, you've got so many letters after your name, you know, I w e, b I a. Well, that's that's the most important one. That was the most exciting one because that was the most challenging one. Run through about all all three of those. So what is an IWE? That is an Italian wine expert with Vineition Academy, which is fantastic. And that was, yeah, that was the most exciting. That was it was hard. It was awful. I failed the first time. And then came back and and tried again and then tried for expert. And, I think, got about eighty seven points in that one. And then in Hong Kong in two thousand eighteen, I, made a decision to really, you know, put my head down and pass. So it was fantastic experience. So I had to, pass the exam and then come back and pass it past the blind tasting. Have you always been a good student? Yeah. I have. I'm really I was one of those awful kids at school. That always studied and, really enjoyed it. You seem, you know, like a I'm not saying a party animal, but you you combine fun with sort of seriousness, and, that's what makes you such a fascinating person to be with. No. But you'll I mean, you'll be such a great teacher, you know, because you can get yours you get your point across very well and very clearly, and you can identify with people that struggle with, with with education. And, that's why I so good to have you in the program. What makes a good student? Oh, gosh. I just think anybody that's really passionate or or inquiring has an inquiring mind, you know, and just kidding, you know, I love I love seeing people succeed, especially the ones that when they first, you know, come to a class or a session, not confident, but they really put the effort in. And and they work really hard, and and they get good results. No. It's great. I really enjoy it. I've got a few more years left in me, I think, I've been teaching now for, well, in the twenty years. Do you get feedback from students who obviously have done the learning bit and then they work up, for example, in a hotel or a bar or a restaurant selling Italian wines? I mean, if they've seen a pickup, in, purchases of those wines because the person talking about the wine actually knows what he or she is talking about and has that enthusiasm? Is that has that been a sort of a Definitely. We we run a lot of courses for professionals or, you know, professional development courses. And just to see people when they're confident about a particular wine or a particular region, it's so easy to sell it because, you know, you can answer queries, you you it's just having that that empowering people. But you definitely see that pick up, and I know that, you know, Ian Harris would have talked about, that when you spoke to me and because there is a real difference when you empower people and give them tools and give them the information. They can pass it on to to the now they're the customer and definitely increase sales because you're just recommending different wines. If you like this wine, you gotta love this wine, or if you drink, you know, seven year old blanc, you may enjoy Verintino or So it's, yeah, I think it's fantastic. It's a really good tool, and I love it. I've just I'm at the end of a big, big year though. This is the first year I haven't been on a plane in about forty two years. And, just being in one place, I have just been, yeah, constantly on the go this year. It's, we had a little bit of a a break during our first lockdown, but, you know, no, it's just been so busy. Now it's crazy. We've had more students than ever, teaching virtually, of course, which has been fantastic experience and a good learning experience, but us and for the students. It's a really different ball game. Have you been doing homeschooling? Yeah. We have a little bit. I mean, my sons are actually physically in school now because they can social distance and because we've got a low risk in our area. So he's very lucky that they've got, that face to face contact with both their friends and also the teachers So that's pretty good. When you're judging wine, what what do you look for? Well, I, personally, I look for a couple of things. I may always look for balance, and and I like texture, look for texture, so good balance, good texture, like a good balance between the fruit and the structural elements, but also drinkability is the main thing I look for. I want I want to, you know, but I'm judging wines, especially if I'm, you know, wine without wolves is just the most fantastic judging experience because you really get to look at personalities of wines. And how they make you feel. And, so it can be, you know, I look at all the standard things, you know, we've all had trained palettes, but it's that extra, that extra factor, that that beauty and that uniqueness of the things I look for. So you like the wine with our walls, just the white walls detection is, based on the organic and biodynamic and natural wines, that are judged separately, in Italy international. And, it's good that we've got them separate. I mean, do you do you think that's good that they're they're on their own little table, or do you think they should be melded in with all the other wines? Yeah. I I think it's good that they're they're looked at on their own in their own section because, you know, we we look we look for a few different things than you would in in just the traditional normal normal ones. I mean, I just love the fact that everybody gets even quite excited about another tables. You know, they come and bring things over to us all the time and say this should be in your section. And that always makes me laugh because I think we have some of the most pure and beautiful ones in that section. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I find them easier to judge the organic and biodynamic and natural or because they're normally less alcohol, and they've got a much nicer acid, acidic spine. Oh, and that beautiful gracious. So, this is kind of like an advert for organic natural wine at the moment. We will move on to a less, salubrious topic there's still a lot of mansplaining in the wine industry. Do you find that? I mean Oh, gosh. Because it's an example. Come on. Oh, dear. No. I won't stop, but yeah. Absolutely. You know, there's I've, just recently I had to do a speech for an award that I received and decided to be really quite honest and blunt. And, it was received really well. And I was talking a little bit about the lack of diversity in our wine industry and in a lot of the wine industry around the world. And and about the fact that, you know, there was not a lot of women, especially in the natural wine, sort of, scene. I was at a tasting a couple of months ago, and I looked around the room, and I was again after, you know, ten years of going to these tastings, the only woman in the room. And the other girl that, was going to be coming couldn't get a babysitter. So I actually got the shits on a little bit because I thought, you know, there's some amazing female winemakers or just winemakers who happen to be female in, in our region. And, they just seem to be overlooked, and it, that does give me me the pip actually. It makes my people. So, yeah, I've I've sort of challenged some people to do something about it. So, yeah, we're moving making hard to try and get more women out there in the industry. And personally, this vintage, I'm going to have a couple of young female students working in our little winery on their own project, so doing a bit of a a cooperative project because I think we need to push women forward and make seats at the table for them. And unless we get pushy and unless people like me who are getting older and really don't care, what other people think at the moment say a few things and, speak out. I don't think it's gonna change. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of mansplaining going on in the industry, and a lot of women just get on and do it. Yeah. I mean, probably going a bit off topic, but my editor of my mom, one of my main writing things is to Canton. I have a female letter today, and obviously you've got Janice and Julia who are sort of beacons of, brilliant journalism and writing. And then you kind of look around and you think there aren't, you know, so many noisy, noisy males and we need a few more, females to to come through. I don't know how that's gonna happen, but, hopefully, it will. So we did the man's version. What so what talk about man's playing is one thing. What about what annoys you the most, in wine writing? I love wine writing or topics that have chosen Yeah. I it's funny. I I, I always used to, you know, I've always used to follow quite a few different wine writers, and I like to hear stories about the people and the stories behind the wine. You know, I really don't I think, you know, can all make up our own minds about whether we, you know, like, particular wines or what we think of them, but I really like to hear about the stories. So writers, you know, that interested in the people behind the wines, they're the the ones that I I enjoy the most love Andrew different. I love the work he wrote. But I don't read these days. A lot of wine writers, I'm sort of, have a a couple of people I follow, but I don't really even follow reviews. Have you have you thought about writing a sort of autobiography about your your time in the Sky. And, Oh, I don't. It's yeah. I have got some stories, but that will require a drink kind of few of those. But, yeah, I've had a great old life in Laquatus was fantastic. I mean, so many wonderful people had, you know, a lot of fun. And, it took, you know, when I left, it took a while to sort of get over that. I I still miss the crew. I I actually started during COVID. I, started a little wine group with some of the corner screw that were laid off because, of course, all the airlines lost their jobs. So we had about a key group of about thirty people every Tuesday night, but it's out of four weeks in about twenty five. And, we're still meeting every, you know, that every now and then on a Tuesday. They're talking about wine. So, you know, the Cornos family has really stuck around for a long time. It's it's was an amazing life. And it makes me quite sad to think that, you know, a lot of young people won't ever get the chance to do that because I don't think we'll fly the way we we we've been flying. We won't be traveling the way we've been traveling. It's been something I've been really thinking about during this this period because I miss Italy summer. I didn't, you know, I've probably four or five times a year. I've been traveling to Italy over the last twenty years. And, yeah, really missed it. I mean, missing out on the craziness of Italy, we were really, you know, excited about coming over. And, yeah, that it's that's just been something that I'm really, really, missed this year. It's just, you know, coming over and seeing live friends hanging out with everybody. I mean, just such a, you know, a great time. It's such a beautiful culture. And, yeah, really can't wait to get back. Final question, probably an ultimate question. As a wine grower, how is Australia meeting the challenges regarding climate change. We are choosing climate appropriate varieties, which is the the word. And I think that, you know, that's something that is really important. We're so lucky to be able to, you know, choose from such a wide variety of grapes now that are in the in Australia farmers in North Europe, just such a wonderful family that have had a big association with Europe, especially Italy, and they have a great nursery. So they're, you know, they have varieties in there that are just coming out now. So for partos, a great variety that's going to be, planted pretty soon. I think farmers have got that in their experimental vineyard. A lot of, you know, that's how we we meet in climate change, really. We're planting in in cooler climate areas, so Tasmania, trying to go up a little bit more into the hills and, you know, where we are really looking at varieties that are gonna work for us and that, you know, don't require a lot of water and and can handle the heat because it's just getting hotter here. It really is. We've had a massive, you know, change in our temperature over the last sort of twenty years. So we have to pick varieties that are gonna work for us. We've just had a first major heatwave, Monty, so, of the season. So I do a a podcast with James Hook, sat in the vineyard once a month called CropWatch. So we do, we just don't know what's happening. So, yeah, I do that's these these varieties that suit, our climate is much better, that that's gonna be our major tool. Okay. Final question. You can have a vineyard anywhere in Italy with any great variety. Where would you go? Oh, Oh, and that's really, really hard. But but and I've actually been looking around a lot. I think I go to a brookso, and I think I would love to have a vineyard there. I think it it's really, you know, it's not as, as well known. Of course, there's Pemonte and, and Kianti and and where you are in Montalchino, which is just wonderful. But I'd really like to go to a brooks service. I think that there's so much to discover in that part of Italy. So that's where I'd be hanging out with Cristiana Thabirio and the dog, learning an awful lot about Montapulciano and, Treviano Debruzzeiza, and that's where I'd really like to be. I think. Interesting. Because it's a very mali much maligned region just thought of as bulk bulk wine. They're white or red, and, often with those bulk areas, they're actually jewels hidden away, that people often ignore. So I think that's a very interesting choice that you that you've made in Australia, obviously, for your climatic situation. It makes sense what you're doing in course, it seems natural that you would want to go there, gravitate there if you did live in Italy. So, anyway, it's really nice to talk to you. Oh, it's really good to talk to you, and we and we miss you all so much, and we can't wait to get back there. And Yeah. I hope you're all staying safe. Yeah. Hopefully, we'll get you if if we get you for a third interview, you will be the record breaking podcast appearance, winner. Okay? Alright, Jill. Jill Gordon Smith. Take it easy, and good luck with, with all your wine growing and and else that you do your educational projects. Thank you. Alright. Thank you so much. Alright, mate. Take care. You too. Be good to good to talk after vintage. Goodbye. See you later. Ciao. Listen to the Italian one podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Hemali FM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. 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