Ep. 540 Daniele Proietti of Abbia Nòva Winery Part 2 | Monty Interviews

Italian wine podcast. Chincin with Italian wine people. Hello. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This is Monty Walden. Welcome to part two of my conversation with Daniello Proetti from the Abia Nova winery in Latcio. For your your group, you know, it seems like it's a group of people with similar ideas. Do you have a sort of set of rules or standards between you say for when you're, doing work in the vineyard, you all try to work to similar goals in terms of environmentally friendly, biodiversity creating or preserving practices. Is that how you do it or is everybody free to do what they want and use their own common sense? I saw that there were no rules at first. The the only rules were, the the basic rules making a natural natural video culture natural agriculture, at first natural agriculture. So using few quantities of sulfur and copper and try to reduce them all over the near, trying to, create auto defense by the plants. So this was our first route and then try trying to do the best natural approach into the winery. So don't use yes, don't use don't have nothing and only low quantities of sulfides when it needs. And this was the original rules without any any document we we wrote. But then I saw that everyone went to went to a kind of approach that is more agricultural in the sense of of opinion. So everyone here in PEO operation in Ellebano, operation, which is the other important operation of the Chazanese, I mean, for example, another winer that I I I forget for, which is Ricardo, in Ellebano, is really good they have a a beautiful approach in the way they use to manage every single person, trying to create, an an ecosystem into the vineyard. So planting other seeds, planting seeds or other cultures or planting trees all around. So creating something all around the vineyard just to protect the vineyard and just to interact just to create an interaction between the the vine and the other plants. Also, wild plants. I saw that this was the way that everyone took personally without any document road, but everyone at first has to use at least sulfur and copper all the sulfur and copper and try to reduce them because we know that also copper we need to to work for a reduction of the copper and then try to work without any adding substances, the fermentation. All the low quantities of sulfides. So what you're trying to do is partly sort of a biodynamic idea where each individual plot has its own individual way of looking and, being worked and obviously the biodiversity in and around the vineyard is very important that all of you or each of you has your own personal strategy. That's not like like a spreadsheet where everybody follows exactly the same rules. People are free to think they want and act how they want. And the more they do that, the more diversity they have in the vineyard, and the more complex or interesting the wines will be even though they're from the same great variety and the same region. You're just trying to create this diversity in a very natural way and let nature take more of a hand than human beings. Yep. Yeah. But I have to I have to tell you that we have been also so lucky from that point of view because we are not born in a place where, everything is covered only by our culture, only by vineer. I mean from this point of view, the language region, but other region. So this place was kind of abandoned during the fifties because everyone want to live the peace and life to get into the city, get in Rome and try to work worked there in Rome. So my generation found a place with a lot of forests, with a lot of places where everything is with vineyards, it's with other cultures, and So we are we are very lucky from this point of view because we are only trying to replace, sustainability with, yet a sixteen agro system, but more wild than you can find in a domestic plant in place. So when we plant everyone here when a plant are being plans are vineyard, try to check the environment all around. Try to respect it because everyone knows that If you if the balance is not respected, the problem could be that the diseases into the vineyard are more and more and more problem. Our problem. I saw that in the last ten years, here, the downy mildew or powdery mildew decrease it a lot just because everyone tried to do this kind of job. Plant a vineyard trying to check the environment, try to respect the wild plants, try to respect the forest, try to respect the yoke trees that that we have all around. This is this was a really good job. And I can say now that all those two operation, the the problem of diseases is not too high and probably this is the result of our job. I mean, when conventional growers listen to you or see your group or know about people in the in in the group. Are they, do they think that you're idiots and living in the past? Or do they think maybe this guy and this group has some good ideas? What what reaction do they give? It depends. Because everyone in this subterranean group agree with that. Agreeze with that. So everyone knows that if you have a vineyard with nothing else inside is a problem for your plants. I can say that also other wineries which are conventional are trying to to change. So it's not a traditional it's not only a traditional way. It's all it's also a future way because It's a a different it's a different kind to also to to to work on a scientific way. It's a kind to to see the scientific method in what the scientific method lost when he accepted all the chemicals or matte tools to work in agriculture. So so that they they don't consider us as ideal because as also you can see we are in a continuous research. So we just don't want to tell dogmas all around. There are no dogmas. We are researching also because we are conscious of this thing. The fact that The agriculture is original fact. It's a town fact. So you can apply a protocol to a place and think that if you apply that to another place, you have the same results. It's as the history of agriculture teach us. If you if you remember, I see a lot of people that use horses now into the vineyards, but there are some places where horses can't be used because the soul is not is not useful for horses. Just the one where we live. PEO is a place where the tradition is to use coast into the vineyards and not horses. So we don't the the fact that we are in a continuous recession, we have no protocols is good because the the people who consider us as prophets but as people was trying to do something new, which is really linked also to the tradition because we also have to remember that we have three or four Greek agronomists from the Roman period. There are, a beautiful teacher for us just like Verona, Corumella, and Catone. If you have a look and if you if you find the beautiful, the that translation in Italian is Lara de la prequelura or the art of over the culture by Columela is an encyclopedia of a natural approach, a far natural approach. We we are so lucky because the the the the places where this book raised where the ones where we are now planted vineyards. So the the Campania Romana, the Roman the Roman landscape, So this book is really important for us because it's a ancient natural approach in our places. It happened about two thousand years ago for about three hundred years of experiments here in vines or about trees, agriculture, cows, and animals, and everything could mean our farm. Yeah. Interesting that you're going, looking, but often it's the way, when we lose our way going forward, we have to look backwards and see where we've gone wrong. And see where others have gone right. And as you say, some of these ancient texts are still very relevant today. Now, you have your own, vineyard. Your family does Abia, Norva. Is that correct? Abia Norva. Let's talk about the wines that you make. You make the wines under the Frusinati GP and the Pidio, the OCG, you mentioned it. But let's just go through, the wines one by one. So you make a for white wine, you make a capacity in a the Frusinati, from Belone, Pasadena Delfusinatti, Malvasia. How do you make that? We make two different two different Pasadena. The first one is the sense of which is a name we we gave to the one just to mean that the the vandalism is a term that means a brutal approach to things. To send a nonetheless means that we have a light approach to things in agriculture and in winery. Our Casarina, our sense of andalism, so the entry level Pasadena is made from forty years to load a vineyard played within an important crew into a boost we have. And is, ferment it with, no skin contact just to express the pureness of the of the wine grapes. So we decided to do that just to focus on the thin line of the grape taste. So he has to respect the grape taste without any a ding of skin counter. And this is the the concept that we had when we, try to do this wine. And the other pastelina is from accrual, and it's not from attendees, from an old vineyard of ninety years old, one of the first planted here in PJ in the modern times. And for that pinyards, the grapes are really different. The the age of the vines led us to try to check what could we do with a skin maturation. And we checked all over the year that when you work with this kind of wine grape, Pasadena, and Belona, you have to check, right, how many days, how many days you can leave the skin in contact with liquid. Because if you lead them so much, the expression of the good flavor that you have when it is to wine web are not respected. So, what we do is this for the other wine we name is San Giovanni, and is from a crew. What we do is that every year, when we taste the, when we taste the grape, we have in mind how many days but the skin contact could respect the vintage. So we passed from twelve hours to five or six day of skin contacts, but not more. And our our two white wines pasadena Belun and which are the the original wine grapes cultivated here. So you make a rosato as well, the cruzinata called berlame. What does that make from? Belame is made from that is the most important. We have an a small percentage of another Asian wine grape that we found here in old vineyards with the other friends of the subterranean movement which is called here, Nostraro. But then genetic researchers, told us that this wine grape is called majorica and is also cultivated in small old vineyards in you know, south of market in North Cabo. And this is what did this is because those lands are under the Vatican state. This is also why we cultivate Pasadena and is also calculated in south of of Mark Rosado. So the Rosado is made from the blend of ninety percent of Chazanilla one and ten percent of of my of my. And it was it was my my first idea of Chezzonese. It means that after years and years of tasting a lot of Chezzonese all around, when I started making my own production, I decided to also as in the Pasadena to discover the skeleton, the thin line, the thin line of the wine by making Rosato. So it was it was really the first and most important guide also in making our cruise or more aged wines and he he is for he he he is twelve hours of skin contact and then the liquid is left alone fermenting into seven beds. Dennis wrecked, and then is bottled, is bottled up after six, five, six month, a month after the the harvest just like the the whites. The other two whites. So, San Samantha Lisme and San Giovanni. So, and you're you have because you have these volcanic deposits, do your wines show a lot of salinity that sort of savoriness? I have to say that. I can say that, yeah, the salinity is more in the way more in the white than in the red. And it also in the rosette, but I think that, is the the salinity comes more from in the result of them from chosenese. The chishonese has the the the peculiarity of preview fruit flavors and and a kind of a kind of sweetness even if it's not sweet. The Nostraro is more linked to salinity as the Pasadena or probably this is a genetic tree of the the general tree of the the wine grape and also because you have to consider that this volcanic soil is made by clay. It's not a sandy soil. So it's really hard to compare those wine to other volcanic place just like the mount mount techno. Probably you can find some some similarity with even if you compare it with the different wine grapes with the the the soave, the the soave areas. If you want to think about the red wines, that could do in this place. And also, you have to consider that Chazanese is a is a Hawaiian grape that could give you, jute through his wines or thin burgundy wines. So it depends on how you work on it in the seller. And this is also this peculiarity is also, good from my point of view because that means a lot of differences in inter in interpretation of the of the wind waves between one producer to another in this place in PEO and in Oleda. So the the answer is that Salini, Salini, I I saw Salini, I see Salini more in the whites that in the reds. Interesting. What about the tannic what in the reds? What about the tannic structure? As roat and root but has this this late tasting of sweet that if you leave not in oak, but in different in different materials just like jar could give you, beautiful satisfaction after two or three years of aging. In different materials. I can I can tell you that our tenants are not good for small folks, for small barrels, but good for big, big barrels or for aging in jar or in sediment? Or amphora? Small or big ones? Is there any risk of oxidation with amphora? Because sometimes because it's so porous, some grape varieties don't always react well, but I guess with a red, it's a little bit easier. Yeah? Not so much because we we made a lot of mistake in the first first years, we used the the jar of the amphora because we used more ones. And, there were a lot of oxygen passing through the holes of the play. And then we realized that the best ways was to buy bigger, for us. It's the same thing as we talk about the barrels, small barrels, and big barrels. How about the Chasanis? So if you use big big bets, of every material is the best way to avoid oxidation and also to give your tenants the way to define their elegance. Interesting. I have to come down. I'm not too far away from you. I'm in Montecino, so I'll have to come down and see you when we're allowed to. The day you come, I've tried to organize, you know, a dinner with all the other producers, Josh. You have the the chance to, to to meet everyone. And you will see that everyone has this beautiful approach, but everyone is, independent from this point of view. And this is good because as I said before, this is a way to to share information each other about what we are doing on our own. And Abia is the in dialect means via the way. So Abiaanoma means the new way and the Abiaanova here in Pio is the oldest street we have. So the oldest street is the new one from our point of view. And that that's why we call it Abianova. The new way is the oldest one. Okay. Danielle Priy from Abianova winery in Latio. Thanks very much for sharing, your thought on natural wine growing and natural winemaking. And the, just details about your amfa and all the different things that you're doing and the group that you're taught, that that you're trying to, build. Very, very interesting from my perspective is someone that is into organics and biodynamics and all that sort of stuff. Really, really enjoyed listening to you today and look forward to meeting you face to face. We're waiting for you. Okay. Where'd be long. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcast. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Himalaya FM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian Line Podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time. Chichi.