Ep. 515 Conte Francesco Marone Cinzano | Monty Waldin Interviews

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with Me Monty Wall in my guest today. Is, Francesco Maroney Cinsano, from the cold orchard winery in the south of Montalcino, one of the biggest wineries in, Montalcino, and the largest winery that is certified organic why did you choose the organic path, Franchesco? Well, it's, it was an an evolution really. Search for quality of the wines, brought us to really develop a consciousness that, it, it had to be it had to be achieved, through the balance of the, of the vineyard with the environment to making sure the vineyard was producing what it it was capable of producing. It wasn't, forced into overproduction, which, actually, weakens the plants, weakens the the vineyard, And, so by trial and error, we and not having used ever, extensively chemical products. We came to the conclusion that, really seeking the biological control of, of all the situation, the the right balance, the harmony of the vineyard was the was the environment, harmonious, level of production, where all elements, that, achieved a kind of quality we were seeking, and, and this brought us to to the organic certification over ten years ago. So when you started, probably people thought you were a little bit crazy to do that on that kind of scale. One of the key things about conversion is getting your employees to believe in what you're believing because sometimes they think that organics will ruin the vineyard and they'll lose their job. Yes. You're you're absolutely right. I've I've been asked on various occasions what, have been the, most important changes that took place, at Cardartia with the organic certification, what practices we changed. And, and, in fact, we didn't change that many practices to what really required the greatest effort was changing people's mindset. We are all especially in Italy brought up at school in a very cartesian kind of way with, every action to every action corresponds a, equal and contrary reaction and well with with organic and, anti dynamic, it's it's not so. You have to, you have to trust the long term effect, the omeopatic effect, and in some occasions of, of the interventions. And, that has taken a method in convincing people and getting them to, to accept this. And that has happened, I must say. And, now, ten, twelve years down the road, results to be seen. The trade grower, the trade grower that's been on the state for forty five years now. Last season, he came back one day, in the spring spring day, warm spring day and said, the the the ground is softer than it used to be. He he really felt that, increase in organic material in the sponginess of the of the soil capacity to retain humidity. And, that that was the the result of, of, the new mindset, which, has taken some time to become apparent. You have a, an estate in Chile as well called, Calibro. Are you organic there as well? Yes. Well, more even more so than than here so far as what I what I eventually did here in Montocino and Condortia started over there, over there when I arrived in the in the mid nineties. I found the rural environment, which, brought me back to to an era when I wasn't even born before the second World War, before the introduction of chemical products, Vignet was plowed by by with was a horse because nobody had a tractor in any way, in any event the tractor would not enter the the old vineyard because of the way the the panzer of the ground. So I learned about organic, management of the farm and, biodynamics over there and then applied it here. Yeah. It's interesting that someone from the, quote, new world learned something from quotes, the old world, And there's that kind of synergy between the two. Ultimately, the goal is the same in both vineyards, but there are obviously slight differences, but, your approach is interesting that you're doing it on those on those two hem hemispheres. In terms of Montalcino as a region, they obviously being one of the biggest producers and a very influential producer. What changes have you seen over the last ten years that have particularly encouraged you, about the future of Montalcino? Well, I I I started advocating or or rather, presenting Montecino and Cordortcha through the reality of the biodiversity of this, this territory. I've always, started my presentations to customers to visitors here in at Condasha, stating that Montacino has a unique predisposition towards biodiversity because of very rich, agricultural history going back many centuries, not not only wine, but, honey, and, truffles, and grains, different different grains, like, spelt, fiber, and tobacco, and, a whole lot of, of other crops. And that has latched on. Now it has become the official line of the of the consortium of Bruno, the of other producers, and the political authorities, the the mayor of Montecino really believes in it, believes in in the potential for growth of of this diversity, you know, for crops. And I think that's the healthiest approach that we have on the on the territory, and one we we must pursue. Yeah. I mean, Montechina has got more for us now than it had in the eighteen fifty. So there's a lot of potential biodiversity in the region. And, was it you that created Montalcino bio, the the the body sort of organizing initiatives? Yes. Was was locked down. We had just scale down our activity, conferences, that we hopefully will resume soon. And, we're going to have a bidonomic conference in, in April, I believe. And, That's, vehicle Montecino bio to increase consciousness, in the territory for, for organic practices and biodynamic practices. And there's no requirement of certification to to join Montecino biojusty interest towards, protection of the environment. So how many members of Moltellino BO do you have at the moment? I mean, just people that are sort of have signed up for the association, whether look, whether they're organic or not. Roughly. Oh, somewhere around the hundred about seventy, seventy eighty, associates. Okay. So there's about, two hundred and fifty wineries in Montecino. So so that's not a bad, tally so far. And have any other any other of the bigger wineries, or is it mainly the smaller ones that are joining the Montecino PA? It's mainly the smaller ones, but what what I particularly like about the the participants is not only wineries. You have the cool teacher, the pharmacist, the accountant, the architect, so the the people of Montocino, and, I think that's that's important to have this, broad appeal not not only not only wineries. So it's really about Montalcino, the place, not just Montalcino, the winemakers. That's right. Yes. Okay. So should we run through, a few of your, wines and a few of yours, particularly your single vineyard wines or site specific wines one would you like to start with? Well, I with Roso Dimontaccino, the DOC, and we have a we have a single vineyard called Banditelda. There is, in my view in the production of the wines from Sanjay here Montecino, a big gap between grocery, Montecino, one year old wine, and then Bernelo five years old. So, we we decided to produce a rosarito, aged in small barrels in Barriques. So not the traditional large, oak barrels of of brunello. And, for about one year, and then we go into the buffer. So if this is a wine, made from Sandroveza, made from a brunelroveignet, but it does does not satisfy the protocol of production does not satisfy the acquired, two years in, you know, and five years before release. So we call it Rosri Montaccino bandit Tebla. Okay. And do you make a you make another, Rosarito Chino as well. Yeah? We produce a large quantity of, Rosarito Chino that we call Bentemia. The The red label. Gordocha was instrumental in obtaining, you know, achieving the DOC status in the, nineteen eighty three for this wine. My father was a firm believer in this wine, firm believer that Montocino. Could shine with, an everyday pure Sanjay. Sanjay, we are convinced here for Dolce. It gives very interesting results for a wine for long aging. But such a base is also a fruity crisp grape that can give good results in a young fruity fresh wine. So we've always believed in Rosie Motachino, and, we produce it every year. We have the two thousand and nineteen vintage out now with a lot of, appreciation by the market. But twenty nineteen was a very brusso kind of, vintage. So when you say that, what do you mean? Well, a lot of fruitiness, a lot of freshness to the aroma, a lot of, crispness to the to the palate. So very, very suitable vintage for young everyday wine production. Okay. Obviously, you're most famous for, well known for, brunello. Should we run through the brunello? It's just the, the call of the brunello de Montaccino, the OCG, called Orchard. Roughly the production. The one we call vintage, we produce every every year. Present on more than seventy countries around the world, and that's, the, most recognized label. Then we we introduced a single vineyard in with vintage two thousand eleven, It's called Vigna Estagio. This is from a young vineyard planted in the year two thousand and six with our clonal selection, everything we have learned on on rootstocks, on density of planting, on management of the of the canopy, and it's a high density of plantations. So, the it's wine with a greater depths and a greater intensity, of aromas and flavors, the to accompanying that, we have, decided to age it one year in small barrels, and then second and third year in the large traditional old barrels. So that's called Nastagio, Brunoino Nastagio, and we released this wine on the sixth year from, from harvest. And I started here. It's actually an official topanymo or named place. But regarding the the vinification and aging, why did you do why do you do it exactly the way that you do it? Where we soon realized from the very first harvest that we had, this is also the the soil in which the the vineyard is planted. We have a greater intensity, greater depths of, flavor, greater intensity of, tanning composition. And so we we felt it needed a little bit slightly a little bit more okiness to the, to the formula. So we we tried to bring in remaining within tradition, a little bit of, of modernity or a third of, of modernity to to our to our formula, to our very traditional formula, a third meaning one out of the three years of, oak aging. It it you start you start the wine off in, in Tono, in five hundred liters Tono, I think. Is that correct or not? That's right. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And that gives us a little hint more ochiness, in the finished wine, and the wine lovers, have liked us a lot. It's, it's been a real success. And But it also softens the turnings, doesn't it? The the polymer polymerization of the turnings when it goes into barrel and sort of softens itself up a little bit. Very much so. Absolutely. That's right. And the main market for that one, nostalgia? Well, now we're having a lot of success with in the United States this year, but, the, the first market to latch on to nostalgia has been France. Has been the the Italian restaurants in Paris where we have a historical position for Dutch has been on the French market for for a very long time for more than thirty years now. And and they they liked it a lot. They are still the largest, market for the nostalgia label. Okay. Tell me a little bit about, the Bruno reserve. Pocio Alvento. Yes. Pocio Vento, windy, windy height, that, reminds the fact that we, the part of Montecino closest to to the coast, to the to the Mediterranean Sea. So we get a lot of the winds from from the from the sea side. And, that's the name we gave to this, rich, rich of, ancient geological soil that comes to the surface, form a seabed, a more sandy soil than the, majority of the band here in Montocino. There we planted my father planted in nineteen seventy four, the first venue that he arrived here. That's where in the year nineteen eighty two, we decided to separate, keep keep the grape separate and, and produce a single single vineyard, one of the very first single vineyards, in the Montecino territory. The composition of the soil gives us, wine was very intense and tight and silky tannins, which, require, extra year of, refinement of, of ripening in the in the barrels and the old barrels and the large oak barrels. And so we keep it, four years in Oak, and then three years in the bottle before release. A wine that's, released on the seventh year after the harvest. When when people read that on your website, And when I read that on your website, and I think, hang on, has has he got the numbers correct? I mean, to aid to the wine that much shows an awful lot of commitment and, trust for your Viticulture because you can't make wines like that, unless you have, top quality grapes. Top quality grapes, and the magic formula of Montecino, because, Chino Bruno has become famous when, wine lovers around the world tasted old vintages of, of Brunelo and, realize the complexity that the wine can achieve with, with time in in the bottle. So with Pajal Vinto, we just try to stress to the maximum the essence of, Bernelo, the capacity to age, the capacity to give, incredible emotions when you uncork, a bottle that's been lined there for, well, a number of years. What's your favorite dish with a with a wine like that that's, you know, comes from a top vineyard, has had plenty of aging and has been allowed to develop before it's put on the market. What would you drink that with? Well, I like I like to pour it with something that we produce all in house. We we breed some goats here on the state in the, in the, in the, in the woods of the state. And, so a young goat, and we use all the traditional spices of the Mediterranean woodland, all the, herbs, like rosemary, and bay leaf, and sage, and really seasoned very very, very much this, and roast goat meat and, serve it with, with the braneroomontachino. It's, it may be great pairing. I, I have to see these, I haven't seen these, these animals yet. Next time I see you, I Can you take me into the forest? I'd quite like to take some photos of them if that's possible. Yes. Yes. Yes. Of course. Of course. Okay. Another wine, traditional wine from the region is the Moscadello Dimontalcino. What what is that? What is it made from And why are you such a passionate fan of Mosquodelo? Mosquodelo is another expression of the uniqueness of Montacino. One way of explaining it is, that, in terms of the production, historic production of, wines for religion, religious purposes, religious functions. The whole of Tuscany produces, wines with the Trebiano grape. Only in Montecino, since the middle ages, as far as we can tell, but it probably even before that, it's not it's not Trebiano, but it's Moscato, Moscato Bianco. And this Muscato has been a muchachino for so many centuries that, until the, DNA testing of the grape varieties came about, many producers believed that, the Moscato here Montaccino, the Moscadello was, unique variety. And if you go back in, in history and find the descriptions of, of, the Moscadero de Montecino, it it is the same as produced today. The aromatic component of the Moscato and the nice crisp acidity to to compensate the sweetness and, a nice, bright color and, very, very enjoyable wine in both as an imperative and as, sweet wine at the at the end of the meal. So the most I always presented as the most important wine of Montecino, at least from a historical point of view. Have we missed anything? Well, I'm, allow me to just mention a cabinet of a yarn we produce here because, that's, again, another expression of the uniqueness of Montecino. The climate of Montecino is capable of, gripening a grape variety such as, cabernet sauvignon and producing, you know, wine that is can stand up to comparison with cabernet sauvignons of any other wine producing region in the world. So, again, another expression of the uniqueness of, of the Montecino territory. And your cabernet is called? Almaya. Almaya. Wood of elm trees. And so the the vineyard must be quite, I mean, is I think it was initially planted in eight nineteen eighty four? Yes. Yes. I then replanted it in two thousand and six. It was very it was, it was a vineyard. The one planted in nineteen eighty four where we we learned to manage the cabernet sauvignon here in Montecino. So a lot of trials of different prunings and things like that. It was it was a little bit tired. I replanted it in the two thousand and six. We're back into full production. I'm very, very happy with the with the results, with the, cavernet sauvignon here in Montecino. Final question, how do you see and there's been a lot of changes in the last ten years, fifteen years in Montalcino, huge changes in terms of quality, in terms of in terms of technique, I think, both in the winery and in the vineyard, what do you think the future holds for Montalcino? As an entity, meaning it's it's brand positioning globally and continued investments in wine making and wine growing. Well, the the complexity of, climate, soil, winemakers, the, all these, different variables that, come into play and, make the production of Brunelo so interesting because it is so varied. And, I I believe that, for the future of Montecino, this, the this diversity of, of the of Bruno interpretations is a great richness. The recognizing the differences in soils and the achieving a zoning of the territory is, another big asset. We need to we need to develop. And if we are capable of working on those aspects, I see a bright future for for Montecito and for Bruno. So you the idea is by not delimiting, but, giving consumers a bit more information about exactly where the wine comes from, you think that, the differences between montauchino produces will be a unifying thing rather than a than a divisive thing? That's right. I I I have said, allow our differences to unite us. Perfect. Well, I want to say thanks today to my guest, friend, Cescobarano gonzano, returning us a little bit about his, called Ultra winery in on Tatino. It was also Calabrio in Chile. Always good to talk to you. And, it's always nice to hear someone that has lots of plans and has been successful with previous plans. So, That's what Montecino needs and needs dynamism, and you're someone that, certainly supports that. So thanks very much Franchesca. Thank you, Monte. Thank you. Good. Good. How do you hope to see you soon? Sure. I I'd like to see those goats. Yes. Yes. Yes. You you know your way here. So anytime you want. Very fine. Thank you. Tao, Montee. Tao. Listen to the Italian one podcast. Wherever you get your podcast. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.