Ep. 530 Gabriele Gorelli MW | Monty Waldin Interviews

Italian wine podcast. Chincin with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Monte Walden. My guest today is Gabrielli Agorelli. Italy's first master of wine. Congratulations. You've just become a master of wine after a little hard work. How how did that feel? Well, it's it's just such a relief, but, at the same time, it is a liberation. It is a liberation from, a burden, a pressure on not only on being the first, but just on arriving to the endeavor that's, a headset to myself in two thousand fourteen. And at the same time, it's a liberation of an energy that I always had to put on that. But at this moment, it feels like it's free to to be conveyed in new projects. Okay. So it's a little bit little bit of a liberation. Right. So what would your, I mean, what would your tips be to, to students in general, but also particularly for students whose first language isn't, isn't English. And what would your key tips be? How to win at master of wine? Well, something I didn't do, but I would strongly recommend because in, in in itinerary, I I started to understand how important it is. Is to do the WST certifications up to the diploma. And that would allow any student even of second language or third to really get into the, actual way of systematically assessing a wine and also have everything that's it's cool and good to know about wines of the world. Because we do not have in Italy any certification that provides, such a broad, overview about the winners of of the world. You need to go to the WSTT. By the time you did the WSTT, and you're done with that with your diploma. You have the knowledge, the basics, the the the foundation of your knowledge that you can work on. And, of course, it takes a lot of work to become somebody that can just reconvey, this is the sort of book knowledge in an exam, like diploma students are asked to But for the master of wine, you need to strongly, critically think about the why. We have not asked the what in the hour, but we are strongly asked about the why. By the time you have the foundation of, your knowledge to to wrap your end up, about that, you can start working on the why, which is the most important thing. I mean, were there any moments when you were, thinking, you know what, this is too difficult? I'm gonna give up or you've we've just very determined that you knew you would get there in the end. Well, I I'm used to finish what I've started. And, of course, I had the opportunity to do that, but I had the strong willingness to finish. The commitment in this sort of journey is everything. And even if the program says in the syllabus, the institute tells you that, it is an individual study program. I think, this cannot be done if you're not in a collective environment. I mean, you need people to support you, other students are needed to establish this sort of give and receive relationship. And it is not only about knowledge. It is not only about, you know, the actual exam preparation, but it is also about energy. You know? Some people, at some point, would go down with their energy, and you need other people that are strongly committed and possibly in in a more half lifting, sort of, a moment to support you. That's the most important thing. So I I felt like some times, I I also really was looking at the top of the mountain from from, really, from the valley. And even, while I was doing my dissertation, my research project, and, you know, when you're there, it's it's a matter of time. You you know you will be finishing. It's not like before you you pass the exam. So you you don't know whether you have, the attempts needed to to actually, get through, but you know you will be getting there at some point. At some point, you get so tired. You get so a bit, I would say, fed up about everything, and you need people to support you. That is the most important thing. It's interesting you say that about the dissertation because, in the old days, it was a little bit easier, I think, the situation. It was like a long essay. And I remember coming back from Verona, in the car with you last time, and you and you I said, come on. You only got your dissertation to do. It's not that difficult. And you and you were quite cautious about that. I mean, you didn't take it for granted. And, now that you've, I didn't wanna push you either in the car because we're both exhausted after tasting about four thousand wines in two days, but but, it's interesting to say that you see that you've really gotta keep going to the bitter end. Don't give up don't give up. So that's really good advice. And and I'm sure you, as a mentor, you you're gonna be such a good mentor to to people, you know, you're young and a lot of energy. And if you're saying, listen, this is not something. We all know it's gonna be difficult, but it's even harder than you think it's gonna be right to the bitter end. That's really good advice, and then students can pace themselves. What did you do? I mean, in terms of, obviously, your family, I'm sure, very relieved was it was it quite difficult getting back into the family routine from of the elation of getting this thing out of the out of your out out of the way? Were they very pleased? I know you've got a small family as well. Yeah. Absolutely. They were pleased. They were so relieved because they they have been leaving that since the beginning, especially my girlfriend, Azura, she was with me since the very beginning. Actually, she holds part of the responsibility of letting me join the Institute because she forwarded me the email about the Symposium of the Institute of Mases Wine in May two thousand fourteen And, when did this happen, I I wasn't actually aware of what we were talking about. So I had to investigate a bit, and I understood that the institute was also supporting together with the the institute of Grande Markey, was also making this master class to, you know, get the an intake of Italian students, not only Italian, even Spanish and French students were allowed into the master class, in order to have people that, have no diploma that be set certification. And but to get them closer to the institute and possibly inside the institute with the aim of having a Master Wine from those countries, especially Italy, of course. So my family, especially my girlfriend, she holds a bit of the responsibility for me to have joints, and she had accounted for that. I mean, she had always being supporting me over time in the worst, moment of my, you know, process of my journey. She was there. And, of course, after our baby was born, the, actually, one month before I start the exam, which I was the first to pass the practical, it has been, a roller coaster of emotions. Absolutely. And that is absolutely stunning because you feel like you are, achieving a couple goal. It is not only a personal goal. It is first personal, then it's a couple goal. Then then it's a a country or an industry goal if you go through this process. Yeah. I remember you had a you were talking about your little baby, and you're you're a very hands on dad as well. And, so that again must have been quite difficult. You probably felt a bit guilty at times that you were maybe not at spending enough time with a little baby or or whatever. But whenever I see you in Montancini, because we often bump into shove, like, he's he's always got his baby, you know, like, you're in his head within about two meters. So, so, yeah, you're very hands on that. Now the Gorelli family name in Montechino is quite well known. Just tell us a bit a little bit about your family. Yeah. I think it's funny because we have been talking about that just one year ago. Right before the lockdown, I was talking with you, on Italian wine podcast about, especially my family's background. So, I've been immersed, I would say, surrounded, but possibly sieged by wine since the very beginning, because my grandpa, John Carlos, it used to be, the smallest Bruno in Montalcino producer, intended as a an actual butler of Bruno. So he he had his own label, the Gorelli label, which lasted until nineteen ninety eight vintage. And I was a little boy at the moment. And, but I I sort of felt like the redeemer of the vineyards and all the the rituality of these things. You're doing the vineyards, you're doing the seller are something that are really sort of innate nature for, for some people. And I was so, into it because I wanted to be as my grandpa, as my dad, as my uncle, where. So into that, altogether, committed to to produce a teeny tiny amount of wine, but of, beautiful quality. And, also, I had the opportunity these last few days to open some bottles of, my grandpa Actually, I opened one, ninety seven Brunelo, which was still absolutely stunning wine with the, inner modernity that I I I wouldn't have expected. If I look back, on how they were working in the cellar. I mean, everything was super clean, but the the actual cask where it was fermenting the the grapes, year to year, it used to punch it down with, a piece of boots that it it it was always the same from one ear to another. No? So you you know, that he he he could have cone termination. You could have many things, but, I mean, it did yield such wonderful wine with, sucrose, it tastes on sucrose, ripeness, but still, say line touch, unbelievable wines produced in in a very rudimentary way. And this is fantastic because it tells you that, okay, the end of demand, it's it's something that is important in the process. But the terroir, we actually the the the place this wine has been produced was doing most of the thing. Where was the vineyard for that wine? Exactly. They do a Cortina. He's no longer with us. No. No. No. It's been, thirteen years already. She he passed away. So, obviously, being, from Montalcino, what are your favorite areas in Montalcino in terms of, like, vine expression and wine expression? I think the most classic area is something that, has always had another gear in, in expression, and in longevity. So the the the wines from, the most calcareos part of Montalcino, especially Montosedly, to me, have a a sort of inner energy that, the rest of the operation still has, but in a in a more, gentle way. I mean, the assertiveness of a wine made on on calcium carbonate with such exposition, it's still something that touches me a lot. Okay. And what about the south of Montalcino? Do you like the wines from the south, which tend to be a little bit bigger, a little bit broader, a little bit more exotic compared to Montozzoli? Well, yes, provided those come from, producer that are really, taking care of the vineyards more than their wines, especially if we're talking about producer that higher higher in altitude, but are south, especially southeast facing. And they are on the Gallestra soils or on the schist. And these give the wines a more, austere touch Those are might be exotic, for the alcohol levels for the body, but those are our stir wines. Absolutely. That's, are strongly conveying the, the harshness of the the soil. Yeah. I, I I, we we seem to think alike. I mean, the cholesterol wines are, they have that wonderful texture and intensity and that sort of smoothness. And they're very versatile with food, and there's no sort of degree of difficulty with, with those particular wines. How about, do you detect any market trends, wine, in general, not just in Montalcina? What would you say is happening in the world of wine right now? Where is the future of it? Well, I think, we need to get more consumers from the youngsters. And, this is done with the creation of, over time we need to create something new to people, something attractive because those people, the youngster, are not talking about, millennials because I I am a millennial too. And, millennia, we are already almost forty years old. So we need to go to generation wide. We need to go to people that really, are about to be introduced to wine and, how to catch their attention. I think we do have two two points to, to really strongly assess and evaluate. The first one is producing more contemporary styles of wine because we have been, especially Italy. We've been, deemed to produce wines with a strong or almost always present, oxidative character, you know, these wines that, usually because of that taste a bit dry and are not really suitable to to international palette because of their dryness. That's why every, expert or wine guy in the in the trade say, okay, Italian wines are very tiny. But, like, San Giovanni is very tiny, which isn't actually the case. It's something that happens because of many interaction between Antosyanins and tannins. And it is the vinification style that, the winemaking process that strongly impacts these, sort of, dryness and assertiveness of the tannins. I think we can go in a way that we we can better manage the tenants. We shouldn't wait for five, ten years before drinking one wine because of the polymerization of its standings is not complete or is not enough to be drinkable. So we should aim for wines that represent an entrance to a region. If we want to talk about Montalcino, Roso is the way because Roso is a more contemporary style of wine because as more crunchy fruit, it is more giving. It is more generous sort of wine in the beginning. It is something that can, achieve, you know, the the the the endeavor of getting a consumer up to the Bernelo and then up to the reserve or up to the single vineyard. But those consumer must be cashed, especially because they are young, must be cashed by curiosity. And then they want to investigate. They are curious and and they want they they probably are not loyal, but they are curious. They want to get deeper and deeper inside the thing. And so then we have, especially, single vineyards, in single expression of areas we need to catch them with these sort of, depth of knowledge, that can be improved and improved over time. It's interesting you say that about Roso di multachino. I was at Beyond DeSanti about, I think, two weeks ago, obviously got, relatively new owners, and we were talking about Roso di multachino, and it is such an underrated wine. As you say, it's the stepping stone to the world of Brunoo and and all its magic. And I hope the producers take their Ross a little bit more seriously. Those that do make absolutely stunning wines, as you know, incredible value. Some of them are like mini brunellos at at like a third of the price. So, hopefully, that that push will that push will come, over over time. Is there anything else you'd like to talk about today, Gabrielli, that, we've missed? Oh, well, to tonight, we are doing a session with Stevie about how to taste Italian wine, like, April. So that would be, a strongly expansive session. Together with my fellow students, Andrea, and and Pieto Russo, and, I think we will cover a lot of, you know, suggestions about, Italian rights. I I just wanted to Thank you very much because you I understood that you have always believed in me, and as a, you know, as a student. Last year, interview, it is approved or that. And, I'm so happy. I'm so glad to have you really in in five kilometers from here so we can continue to to interact. Just wanna say thanks to my guest today, Gabrielli Gorelli from, multuccino master of wine, Italy's first, very modest down to earth guy, got a, super brain. And, you share your knowledge beautifully and if I was a student for the MW, I would absolutely want to have you as my mentor. You encapsulate the, you know, the dedication needed to do what you've done and your your communication skills are set in second to none. And, you're a very likable chap as well, and you make it sound a little bit easier than what possibly it is. So you don't shock people either. So, you got a fantastic career ahead of you, and, you've done some great things as well already. So enjoy and and enjoy your little baby as well. Don't don't forget the baby. That's more important than anything. Gabriela, you've been superstar. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's been always a pleasure to talk with you and, let's keep up. Let's keep in touch. Take care. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe cribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment production and publication costs. Until next time.