Ep. 279 Jonas H Röjerman MW

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So what what is the role of ahead of product quality? What do you do? What does that mean? System below, it that might might sound as I work with, the standards and certifications and all these things. I actually don't aren't. And since Sis systemologer doesn't have their own bottling facility or anything like that, my work is mainly or a hundred percent focused on making sure that since we have a tendering system on joining the assortment or getting on to the off. My main focus is to make sure that what's intended with us on paper, on, and, on sensory values, is what's coming up on the shelf in the shop. Lots of steps in between, but that's my main focus, making sure that's the qualities that there on what's in the package. Okay. So when you say quality, that's a multi headed hydra. Mhmm. What do you mean? You just you just taste the wine and say, oh, that tastes alright? Or you're actually doing analyses and things like that? And also provenance, you know, is this wine really from Yep. Tuscany. Yes. Yes. We'll do all those you're a bit of a detective then? Yeah. I'm I'm the bad cop, but at system below, get our importers thing, sir. Yeah. So what's a typical day for you then? Oh. You wake wake up, put your holster on, load, load, put some bullets in there in the and then find out those bad boy producers that are, cheating. Yeah. Joke a size, but yeah, it's it's it is is it sometimes it is a bit like that. It's a interesting industry, system, or or the wine industry is, it's quite interesting. But the main thing is sustainable argument is the monopoly the market. So we are the sole sort of retailer of, I call it beverages. So our purchasing process and and fairness of the game has to be crucially fair to all our importers. Okay. So so import is in Sweden. They can only get wine on the shelf going via the monopoly. Yes. So what's your your role, obviously, is is making sure that the wine is exactly as it said is. Does that involve a lot of travel or are you solely based in Sweden or a bit of both? That go into that. So it really starts on the process when we, when we do our or that's and that's the reason why I'm here at in Corona. Our tender tasting. It's it's judged on sensory profiles. So you you have to fulfill that, and then we say that, yeah, this is the best one that we're looking for in that sort of style of one. So so you may have you may have looking for, I don't know, look, to say a, say, Kentucky classic or something. Yeah. So you have a a blind tasting of producers that have want to try and get them wine into the monopoly system. Yep. And a sense analysis is a wine tasting. Yes. And you presume you've got chemical analysis of the wine as well, their alcoholic, it's all that sort of stuff. Yeah. And so the tasting is is thrown by a panel of three members, and I'm in charge for the training and and the overall charge of the and the tasting channel, making sure that they're actually good at what they do. So I'm also involved in how we make the descriptions on on the tender tastings, the profiles. Basically, that's run by our purchasers, our buyers, but I'm sort of coordinating the language to see that it's it's, it's according to it's actually workable when you come to the tasting session. So I'm overseeing the panels, the tasting the training. When we do buy bigger volumes, and for us, that's a hundred thousand and liters plus for six months. I actually also do straight after the tasting, I go to the producer and make sure that, yes, the wine is there, and it's it's owned by the right persons. It's we ask for details on, grape varieties, which tank you have your wine in. So what I do, I go in and ask them to open the book open the books, and I go through the process from grapes arriving, all the steps through the winemaking. And now they tell us it's in the tank ten a, and then I'll look at the process and then I go out to the tank, and I'll actually open the lid and make sure that the one is there. Really? Is that that thorough? Is that thorough on what we call the high high risk tenders, which in in a year is like twenty five to thirty. And all we do, what do you think, do auditing on those. So traveling, yes, about sixty, sixty, seventy days a year. So we won't name any high risk areas, but can you give me a general example of of what a high risk what would make a high risk wine, a high risk wine? The basis volume, because we we we do the tender tasting, and it's I wouldn't say it's easy, but it's fairly easy to make a a bit better sample than you actually we can manage. Happy tank. Yeah. And I I mean, usually, you have the example that, yeah, you did the ten sample when you won, and then you, you had that twenty thousand liters of pretty thin merlot that you had to blend in to make it financially viable, and and then it's not the same wine anymore. So, that's why we do it on the high that's why it's high risk. So scaling it up from nine liters, which might be the tender sample size, to four hundred thousand liter. That's that's a bit tricky. Did you use any, I mean, scientific diagnostic tools to see if, say, a wine from even outside of Italy or has ended up in a Italian wine? Yeah. We don't have that technique yet. What we have is, so it's two legs. It's the sensory values, and then we have our own lab. So I have seven, chemists that draw on our labs, and we do all our own own analysis, and it's a credited lab. So and we only specialized in in riches, mainly bind. Sorry. So just so we have that chemical footprint as well from the start. Together with the audits, I think we're pretty pretty good at saying that, yes, at least when we did the audit, the ones were there, and it was all alright. And and again, Like, for an example, a big tender could be a hundred and twenty samples. I would have a hundred and nineteen losers and for the fairness of the game and the transparency of the sustainable argument. We actually have to go and do these audits. Hopefully, in the future, there are suppliers will do the audits themselves, but regarding actually getting what we was standard with, we have to do it still. How do you write to the people, you know, the hundred, one hundred and eighteen that didn't make it, dear, why and produce some terribly sorry to tell you your wine didn't qualify this time. No. It's a it's a standard sort of email that goes out if you're not successful in the tasting. Do you ever get any feedback? Oh, yeah. Our purchasers get feedbacks and and And any written words? Most in the way that Okay. We were out on this one, quality points wise. What can we do and what did I miss rather than being very angry, I would say? Of course, there's been people that've been angry all the times, but yeah. So I mean, you can say we like the wine, but we felt that this red was a little bit green. The tannins were a bit green or something like that. So it's sort of constructive. Yeah. If if the if if the purchaser wants to give the time and do a bit of feedback, they they usually do. So has it have you have you had cases where you've you've given a little bit of advice and said, look, we really liked it, but it wasn't you just missed out because of one little thing that we and then a couple of years later, they actually get one through and and they like, you know, we took your advice and we're so happy that we now got a tender through and we're in in your market. Was it less personal than that? Yeah. I would say less personal than that. But again, the style profile that we describe on the tenders, if you're a good importer, you is because it's always in Swedish. And over time, you're asking and and quite questions about why it didn't that work and so forth, with the with the purchaser, you will you will gain knowledge on on on that. And it's not it's not that there's a secret code in any way. It it's pretty straightforward, I would say. I mean, and again, I understand if an importer has a producer in let's use the county example. And we were asking for a fairly modern style candy with, perhaps, a bit overtones of Oak, and you work within a producer in in in county is very traditional in its way making it, and he would read that or she would read that tender and say, yes, I'm a county classical producer or a county producer. Please tender with my wine. And the the importer will maybe struggle to say I don't want to tender with your wife because it's totally wrong style. So they might end up sending it in any way just for the keeping the good relationship with the producer, and then we taste it. Now, that's too sniffing a sip, and we'll say, this not what we're looking for, so it will score badly. And sadly enough that producer will have that feedback. Now it didn't didn't work. Yeah. We did tell you. Yeah. Yeah. In the description. Yeah. So that sometimes happen. And, I can understand that producer gets a bit annoyed by that. Well, I mean, they were told though, you know, if you give us a slightly old style oakie wine that's quite evolved, this isn't we want something that's fresh and fruity and you you send it in and it doesn't get through. So, well, look, we did tell you. It's not like we didn't. We were pretty clear. We wrote to you and it was in black and white. We we are very transparent and very clear. Yeah. Yeah. Then it affair some competition, but that's that's on any market. Oh, it's not. Okay. So what are swedes drinking and in what volumes and what with food on its own at home in restaurants? How does it work? Well, if if, fair bit of wine is consumed at home. Yeah. Absolutely. The restaurant side, as far as I know, it's thriving at the moment. It's going very, very well. So a fair bit of the niche, really niche products ends up on restaurants, to a niche product would be what? Like natural wine? Or Yeah. We featured natural wines as well, but some of the really small importers in Sweden, they mainly work through the restaurant in in this bigger citizens in Sweden like Stockholm, government, and Malma. Yeah. So but we we have them as well, but not to the extent that if you're a specialized nat natural wine importer, you you only deal with that. So in terms of, what's the monopoly view for organic wine? Are you trying to focus on or not? Wait. I would say that we've been a driving force to, to build that assortment, in within our shops. So we had a goal that we will pass ten percent in twenty twenty, and I think that's two years plus now since we actually achieved that goal. So if I remember correctly, we're up to thirteen, almost fourteen percent of our, offering is is organic. So to give everybody an idea that globally are roughly about five percent of the global wine grape Yignard is organic. So you're kind of three times ahead of Yeah. Of what's happening in the field. Yeah. And it's it's funny. We we we drove it in the sense that they were had priority in in the evaluation of the assortment and so forth, and we kept on putting out the ten and today, it's it's one stage that just took off. So it doesn't need any extra support today. It's it's a strong, strong factor for sales in Sweden. So what can happen sometimes with organic wines, which I've heard in in, by the Canadian monopoly is, you know, some residual sprays that were sprayed maybe twenty, even thirty years ago, residues of that can still end up in an organic wine. Do you do tests on that to see, if people have been cheating or not? We don't have we can't run pesticides on our own laboratory, yet we do projects around that. So once a year, at least, we do sand samples, and and, look at that. And sometimes we have some negative results, things that's supposed to be organic. Quite recently, we found out there was a, European slash Spanish producer that actually had, residuals in his organic, their organic wine. We did an investigation, and it's it's ended up like they stopped that because they had to rebuild the winery because it was transmitted during, during hand both conventional and organic wines in there. So that's a error at the at the winery, but, that's one thing that we found in our in our studies. So, yes, in that, yes, we do it, but on a limited scale. But in that case, you know, obviously, they've made a they haven't cleaned a tank properly or something, which is, you know, already dumb. Yeah. But they weren't actually doing anything, like, anything kind of illegal. Are they still welcome back, or do they have like a yellow card against them or something? Or No. We are very there's a we are very, there's a cartoon in in Sweden called Bumpster, and he's he's so strong that he has to be so kind. And sometimes I think the monopoly, we are we are very forgiving. And, yes, the producer will absolutely be be welcome back. That's part of being a monopoly. We we can't we can't pick and choose who we actually make business with. Yeah. And I think that's, I mean, as some people may disagree with me, may even disagree with you, but, you know, it wasn't like he, the producer, she did it deliberately. They would just maybe did something a bit, you know, they were a little bit lackadaisical. Again, some people would disagree with me. But, yeah, it's nice you're giving them a second chance. Like, I guess if it happens again, then you said, listen, buddy, we've we've warned you once now. Yeah. We have a, in our agreement with the suppliers. We have a protocol. That we actually can reject if they have repeatedly had quality problems with us. What are the trends mean, away from your away from your day job. Obviously, you travel around a lot. What are your favorite, regions, particularly in in Italy? No worries. You won't get marked on this. It's just like, you know, you like what place places that you like physically as in the landscape the the wine styles, you as you as a consumer, just a normal regular guy. Well, I'm I'm I'm not. I'm not a regular. Just pretend that you are now not to pretend that. Yeah. Italy, I've seen a bit too little of the southern parts, obviously, I would say to they don't get on to to be part of the my judgment. But, of course, I I, like many others, love the Piamonte and the, the Pitresque Barolo, and, and that part of the world. It's it's pretty amazing, actually. So also when you're at home and you happen to have a bottle of burrillo, Barbara Esco on the table, what is a dish, a local dish that you would, your favorite sort of dish with the family? Then I would ask my wife to make a resort of course. Ah, it's also okay. It's also with Chantraals. With a little bit of with Chantorals. Yeah. And an and, the vegetarian. Oh, okay. So what about, carnivorous dish with, Marolo Babaresco? What's the typical dish in Sweden then? Typical dish. That's, tacos. That's a very traditional Swedish dish on on Friday, on Fridays? Really? Yeah. I'm not we're not doing it, but quite a lot of people do actually have as a standard Friday in Taco bars in in, Stockholm? No. You that you that's a version, Swedish version that you do at home. And the meat would be from where? From what would it would it be? That would be minced minced meat. So beef. Yeah. Beef. Okay. And, free trial. Very, very, very Swedish. Yeah. Version of of taco service. Okay. K. And if you had and did you what's your favorite holiday destination? If you have, like, a, probably, probably don't have a huge amount of holiday, but if you had to just have, like, a beach holiday in Italy, where would you end up? You can't go to PM Monteings or no beaches. Have have no experience of the beaches. Oh, it. I'm afraid. Okay. Most of the beaches wouldn't be fine. Yeah. You probably don't have a lot of time when you're traveling as well. No. So where's your next trip? Next trip is to Australia, but that's private over on your New York City. Next work trip is, going to Austria Okay. In January. The next trip to Italy? It's not planned yet. Okay. Alrighty. Yeah. And what about your family? I mean, you when you're at home, do you have wine evening, or would you sometimes have a beer or a grappa or or spirits? Well, absolutely don't have any wine every day, but, a couple of days a week. Of course at the weekend, very rarely do I drink spirit. Okay. Yeah. But in terms of, like, what What's your Beer is summer. Might have a beer and summer. Okay. Yeah. But I mean, if you're having like a rich meal and you need a red wine from Italy, what what would what would you gravitate towards? Any well balanced high quality. Oh, you're so to diplomat. Okay. So it has to be. Yeah. Okay. Alright. I'm gonna see if I can pronounce your name properly again. Yeah. I wanna say thanks to my guest today, Jonas Royaman master of wine, head of product quality. Assortment and purchasing department from Sweden, the monopoly system, system Bollogat. System Bollogat. And, thanks for coming in. Okay. And sharing us with us your insights about the the mechanics of getting wine from a foreign country into your market. Thank you very much. Thanks. Super. Thanks a lot. And that brings us to the close of yet another Italian wine podcast interview. Before we conclude, We'll check-in with Vinitally International Academy chief scientist, Atilio Shenza. For our segment, everybody needs a bit of Shenza. Via community, please send in your questions with a professor to answer m a. Okay. Welcome back, everybody. Everybody needs a bit of Shenza segment to, Italian wine podcast. So this is when we get a question from the Via community, and we ask professor, our chief scientist, Atilio Shenza directly So today, we have a very long winded question from, Nonekresto in, a Frankozan, from China, I forget what part of chinese from, Italian wine promotion and education in China. And he asked he sent a very long winded question of pages and pages and streams of paper, but, we have kind of distilled it in the following way. So, he makes a reference to the law of a number eighty two point zero six article two and number two three eight slash twenty sixteen article six, which are two, laws specifically used to describe international varieties. And his question is, can carbonate, sovignon, and Melo be used up to ten percent in Vipoligela blend. Okay. Then his second question more or less is some other Italian varieties also used in valpolicella brands such as San Giovanni, which is listed in the so he's he's doing his homework. So, which role applies to sangiovese? What is the maximum use search, should be, should it be sangiovese plus Oseleta up to fifteen percent or sangiovese plus carbonate sauvignon plus merlot up to ten percent. Then he goes on, there are still some varieties used by wineries, but not listed in the above table, such as Nebbiolo blended in So which regulation is applied to Nebula. Same as sangiovese? If Nebula can be used in valpolicella blend, does that mean any other variety also can be used? Such as It's kind of all over the place. Has understood the question. Okay. The the the the the in part the the capital of Mexico. At the I would like to be honest, she can compare the. She can change the domain or she can change the domain or she can change the domain or she can change the first case So, or my Okay. So, we'll try to translate this for you, Franco, but finally you have an answer because he wrote to us saying, I know this is a boring question it doesn't have much market value, but I have encountered this problem in my education experience in recent years in China. I tried to get the answer from different people, and consulsia, but wasn't successful. And Franco, we really appreciate your passion, in promoting Italian wine and let us know if we can be of help in any other way. Send your question to Professor Shinsa. Like I said, everybody needs a bit of Shinsa. And today, Franco designated a little bit of Shinsa today. So that's it for now. For the segment. Everybody needs a bit of chance of Italian wine podcast. For the next time, until next time, a la Prasima, Adivi delci, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram, please like us and, recommend to, other people for Italian wine, culture, and conversation. Keep that coming. Thank you very much. Discourse you. Listen to all of our pods on Sound Cloud iTunes, iTunesify Himalaya FM and on Italianline podcast dot com. Don't forget to send your tweets to eta ETA wine podcast.