Ep. 198 Daniele Cernilli (Doctor Wine)on a wine tour of Italy | Native Grape Odyssey

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. This podcast is brought to you by Native Grape Odyssey. Native Grape Odyssey is an educational project financed by the European Union to promote European wine in Canada, Japan, and Russia. And joy. It's from Europe. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me, Monte Warden. My guest today is Danieli Cereneli. Danielelli is Italian, and he's a journalist and wine writer with his own website called doctor wine. It. And that's a website that is published both in his native Italian and in the English language, and it's well, well worth checking out a lot of detail in what Danielle is dug does. And we're gonna dig down in that deliver. We're gonna dig down into that over the next ten or fifteen minutes or so. Welcome, Danie. Thank you. Briefly, where are you from? And did you come from a wine making or wine background? Okay. I'm from Rome, that is in Italy, of course. And, I began a lot of years ago because I was an expert in geography, and, the the wine is a geography of taste. And I discover that when I was twenty years old, and I continue to to drink wine and to taste wine because, my passion is to understand where I am in a in a country or in a and and the the wine is a a taste of a country of a place. So, obviously, from where you're in the region of Latio? Yes. But the Latio is not a good word because Latio is the second, football team of Rome, and, I am from Rome, not from Latio, you know, so, and Latio is a good good name for a region, Les acting, soccer team. Alright. We're talking football here. So yeah. So Latio is a team and I'm jogging, of course. Right. So Latio is a region, and it's also the name of the team. And there's also AC Roma. There are two teams in Rome. That's your and my ass. It's like a Liverpool and everton. Yeah. And Latu is the everton of, of Rome, you know. It's well known that English player called Paul Gascawining played for Latio for a couple of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So And did a and did a few crazy things. Moving swiftly on to wine. Let's if we can dig down into what is fashionable at the moment in Italian what are the trends? Are they being driven by climate change, by consumer preferences? Yeah. So there there is a few words about the universe probably because the, you know, Italian wines are so many and so different. And in each little part of it, a little, there is a wine, a typical wine, not even a good wine, but a typical wine. So, this is very, very important to understand. Because for us, for for in Italy, the wine is like the bread, like, like, the olive oil. It's, something to drink and something to eat. It's normal. It's a familiar consumption. So, this is It's food. It's food. Isn't it? Yeah. It's is like food. For example, the when the the British people or the American people, this, it's a wine for food. For all these normal, the wine for food. It's not a bad word or and, this is important to understand because the Italian wines mainly are wine for food. And, and, this is this is a good thing for us. You know, it's not a bad thing. It's already, something like that. So the idea is to have, to have, in front of us, five, hundred different DOC, for example, or IGT or denomination, or and, more than five hundred different, vines, native varieties. So it's very impressive and interesting to to to get into the the Italian wine world for that reasons. It's difficult to say, what will be the future of all the, but some will be very, very good. Some future, will be very good for some varietals like Nipio or, sangiovese or, something like that, like that. In other partners, not known, varietals. So, probably will be a local consumption or a local wine. So I don't know what will be in the world, the the the consumption of, I don't know, a coda developer or, pecorino or something than something like that. So in terms of these, native grape varieties, what would you suggest is the best way for someone wanting to learn about native grape varieties who maybe doesn't have a huge amount of experience of Italian wine, are they just gonna say, you know what? With five hundred different or more native varieties and all these denominations, why don't I just give up? Why don't I just give up and and become a train spotter, for example? Why would I bother getting into this? But like very much Alyanico, for example, in the South and the Taurasi, that is the, DOCG, made of, Alyanico that is fantastic in some cases. In Campania. In Campania, of course, not far from, neighbors, but a very continental weather because, in a fifty kilometers change everything, and they have not a Mediterranean weather. They have a very continental weather So it's cold normally, and it snows in the area of Armenia. But because the ma because of the mountain, because, there is a a lot of mountains, not far from Naples. It is strange to understand because, we are from the Mediterranean weather to continental and cold weather there is five hundred fifty kilometers, not more. And, it's difficult to, to understand. Five hundred. Yeah. Five hundred and fifty meters. Yes. Yeah. So you get snow, and also in, we're talking about Allianic also in the Volterre in yes. It's it's It's the same, ma'am, because the water and the and the bringing up not so far. And there are, an another fifty kilometers or so. So what you're saying, are you in the really hot, hot, hot, hot south? But because of the altitude, yes, the altitude and the snow and the continental weather. So hot in the in the day and very cold in the night, for example, or very cold in some part of the of the seasons of the year. Matl many a situation in this way because Italy, is a peninsula, is long and thin, and, and, there are many, many subregions and many different weather, in a few kilometers. So, It's worth reminding ourselves at seventy percent, I think of Italian vineyards are on hillslopes. Yes, some sort. So automatically, you've got air movement. And therefore, we've got micro climatic automatic differences. And they are, as Daniel, he says, it's gonna really have an influence on the expression of the vine and its graves. Yes. If you if you, imagine the situation in France and in Spain, there are bigger countries that Italy, you know, and so the difference is in, in weather, it's a really less in comparison with the Italian differences, and so this is not good or bad. It just is. It's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. Yeah. Other, for example, or, the the, bovaledu, or, or, some nuragus that is a white varietal, unknown, out of, of the of the region, and, this is very, very important to understand. It's complex to understand, of course. Mrs. Genesis Robinson said that you have too many variety, varietals, too many denominations to be comprehensible by by a lot of people. She's true. But but this is the what position. That's one way of putting it on onset necessarily. Sure. I think in terms of denominations, possibly there's a lot of repetition with the doc or docGs or IgGs, possibly the docs, more than the docGs, to be honest. But, I mean, I don't think you could, ever wish away any of the grape varieties, and I can't think of any native variety that I've tried in Italy that I don't particularly like. But I I I don't know what guy can, can wish for for, native varieties because, probably, a lot of them remains in local consumption. Sure. So, of course, I think it's, a sort of culture of wine, material culture, of, of wine that that is interesting. The franchising, e, historically, probably and, as a soci sociology matter, you know, and not not for the the only the quality of the wine or, or something like that. Okay. So maybe what we could do is just go for a couple of regions, big or if we just pick a couple at random Mhmm. And we can ask you your favorites. Campania, probably. And, But you're you're obviously your romance, you're not from Campania. No. I'm not from Campania. You'll be very independent here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, completely different from, in Matcampania. It's fantastic. Yes, we are. Yeah. I know, and Greiko and Gallangina. But a lot of other, for example, in the in the Campifla Gray, that is on the north of Naples. There are a volcanic area like yellowstone. Yeah. And, there is a great volcano. Fields are far. I can't be flicking it. It feels a far. Yes. With cinder soil and the the the phylloxera didn't reach the venues. And so, there there are engraved vineyards of Falangina or PD Rosa. That are incredible. There is some, many Falanginos that that seems a riesling, Mediterranean riesling. Very fascinating. Yeah. It seems can is interesting, especially Naples. Yeah. If you go there last time I was out, I actually went to Campi for for everyone and that comes up there. You think at the the cuisine there, the the pizza, and the mozzarella, and the local told me, he said, we like this is our fast food. And I said, yeah, obviously, it's classic file. It's not like a burger and stuff. And I said, you know, why we we make our mozzarella, which is milk one day and cheese almost the next day? And I said, no, why? And the reason we do it so quickly is we don't know if we're gonna be here tomorrow. I said, what do you mean we live, we literally live on a volcano. Yeah. Yes. The the the the mozzarella tastes different, you know, in the because it's a little smoky, and it's very, very, very, very curious. And, the the second, place. It is not so Italian because it's a subtle alto ad digit. And then alto adige that they have fantastic white wines and some good red wines. I don't know that the order with the German culture, because a lot of people in Alta, AdiJ speaks, German. Yeah. Austria. Yeah. Was it part of Austria until nineteen nineteen. Tirol is, is, a region that goes from Italy to Germany to the Bayon region. They are very, very close in the mentality or, and a lot of a lot of people in, in boats and, in, break bricks, and they are supporter of buyer, Munich, soccer team. In Italy. They're not italian. And they are German, Austrian, and they are German, Austrian, and they they they make fantastic, for example, Gevils, Tremina, in a in a tomato, tramine or, fantastic, sovignon, in some part of, of the region. And there there there is, probably, an incredible variety, local variety that is La Grine. La Grine is a, red varietal. Very, very interesting. He's very close to it. They're all they go to a local, erastic Sierra, for example, or rustic Morvedra, something similar to them. Okay. Let's pick a very famous and sometimes even controversial region Tuscany. So the influence of Bordeaux, they're on the red wines and also the, some people argue the underperforming white sale, like, but actually the San Giovanni. You know, in Bolberry, it's normal to have, cabernet sauvignon and in some partner law or Sierra because Bollberry is, a new, word for the wine. In fact, they they began to to make wine, at the end of the sixties. So fifty years or fifty years ago, and the burglary is is like a a borderless islander in Mediterranean area light, like, I don't know, in in Spain, the pre or at, in some case, but there are only bulgari that is, so international style. The other part of Tuscany is based on Central Easy, of who So, and the v verification of Southern Juiza could change, because of the different idea about the venaification or different philosophy by the winemakers, but there is San Giovanni. So, Keante Glassy or, or, brunello de Montancin, or vina laugier. Different interpretation of, of San Jose in different, terrace. So if you were, if I were to ask you in a very few words, the difference between a hundred percent sangiovese from Montecino, just to, an average Montecino in terms of style, not in terms of quality. What would you say the differences might be? I had he may that Montalcino is, in the southern part of Tuscany. So the the the the body, the alcohol contains the the tendons are more evident. In Canti Glassico, you can have some, big wines in the southern part in Castel Mobile, Denga, for example, but in Rada or in the higher part of Castelina in Grever, you can have a very elegant wines by Sanjuviso. It's like the pinot noir side of the centuries in order to to to to give an idea. Of course, you have to change what you have to what we have to change. But, the the CDD is more than the tailings, for example, in the in the southern part, the tailings are more than than than the acidity, like in the the main part of Bernelo de Montalcino. So the the big body is from, Sienna and Brunelo. The the elegance is more from signature. Let's go off to, say, the Marque, to Vadicchio. How do you rate Vadicchio as a white wine grape? Vadicchio is a a fantastic wine, white wine grape. It's like it's like, there are many white single that sings the blues, you know? And, because, like, Jo Cocker, for example, or, Steve Windwood. And, Vodica is, something like dates. Some because, Vodica is a big white varietals, that's, can give us, a little bit red wines because the acidity is a more salty, is saltier than than lemony. And the body is is a great body. Selection and blank for example or like some, some some varietals from the south of France. Some of their own varieties. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From from, Chotun of the Paris, the the the the southern part of France. And Verdicchio is a wine with some diminitudes, with with this kind of wines. Okay. Now, what about another bruiser is Sacramento from Montecalfaca. How do you get on the Sacramento? It's probably Italy's most tenant grape along with maybe pinion. Yeah. Yes. I I think it's a the the more organic grape of the world. Yeah. Because it contains in the polyphenols and in tendons are incredible. So if you like tenants, San Antonio, it's your wine. Sure. If you don't like tenants, don't don't have San Antonio, the the the this is the the the main thing. But San Cortino is a little fascinating because, for the wild boar, for example, to match. Which they have also? It's a wine for food, of course. But it's a it's a very good wine for food. Oh, ma'am. A a lime, but, more than I am did, Vanizon or, game, because, the tannins match the fat, the added fat, not the inside fat. So the added fat, and if you if you cook this in Regina, the the the game, the game, you add a lot of fat because butter, the olive oil, and so you need for a lot of time for help, long, long cooking. So you have, you need ten inch to match. And this is, this is the the real goal of of the mission of the Argentina. Okay. Let's jump down to Sicily. Mhmm. Aris say, for example, Aetna. What's going on in Aetna? Aetna, we talk about Aetna more than when than we drink probably the, and, Aetna is a fantastic place where it is not Sicily because, because, in Aetna, there are more north and wide, than, than you can expect. In Aetna, they they, they have vineyard over six hundred meters on the on the sea level. So more north and, more in altitude that you can expect from, in the estimated Iranian area. And the results are more, northern style of wines than, than the other part of Sicily. If you go to the western part of a narrow daguerre, they are big wine, alcoholic. Inetna, they are elegant. They thin, and, agile wines. And, and this is the the difference. When you drink it, not drink to the north region, not a Mediterranean Island region, overall the Carricante for the whites ending in the Nebula Masca for the red wines are very, very interesting in this case, like, Nebula or, Santax. Speaking of Nebula. Let's go off to Piamonte. In a nutshell, the diff between Babaresco and Barrola? They are very similar. Mister Chareto, that is one of the best producer of Barrola says if I want to invite a a nice lady for a dinner, I order a Barbarasco. If I know that I have to die tomorrow, I began to drink Barolo. Barolo is a big wine, is a little southern in comparison with Balbaresco. So timings, alcohol contains is more than the media of the Balbaresco Barbaresco is more elegant. It's like the same difference between, brunello and Canti classico, or Poiac and Margaux, the elegance of Margaux and the, the powerful, powerful, wines from Poyac. Like, Poyac is Barolo and Margot could be the barbaresco in order to give an idea. Of course, it's different, but to give an idea could be useful. Now let's jump off to Amelia, sparkling wines, Lambrusco. Labrusco is, is a is a universe, because there are black and Bruceco and the pink, Lamrozco, that are the black, Nebraska, from, from, from, red, Rachel Salvedro, and, Lambrusco, ma'am, and, Lambrusco, Lambrusco, is very similar to a pink wine, a rosette wine, so more CD, a more, drinkability, and, the wine less less body. So in a moment, the Lambrusco, there are many differences. And, the Romania is completely another region. First are the Adriatic coast moving towards, and they remedy that side. That's the, eastern side of Eminia Romania. Yeah. It's right. But in the east part of, of, Eminia Romania. It is another another region. It's like beaujolais and, coteau. Different, varietals, because in Romania, they don't make any sparkling wine, but they make San Juviso, like in Tuscany or albana china. It has a local, the native, white varieties. It's very different. It's a normal wine, not sparkling. There is all some sparkling wine, but, it's not so common. What's the difference between the San Giovanni for romania to, just say any acts of classic Tuskin Sanjuese from a moderately, you know, a candy classic. Yes. I I made an interview to Madamla Luz de Rwas several years ago and, it's an example of course, and Malam Dalubis Lawa was the owner of, the the the best producer of Pieronua. It's a it's a misa understanding. I don't make any pinot noir. I make Natasha's pork and Romani con t. I use the pinot noir, but they are not pinot noir. So To the wines of Tel. So, Sandra. Yes, of course. So, Romania Sanroveys, is, Sanjuvis, and varydals is more important than the terroir for the moment. In Tuscany, there is not sangiovese, along. There is a Canti Glasgow, Bernelo, and, you know, Nobile and Morilini's concern. So differences by the terroir. In Romania, the the wine is very big. Normally, the acidity could be good in some part in the higher part, but normally, the wine is horizontal and big. In, in Tuscany, there is more more, differences between one, Taral, and the other. Yeah. More nuances. Yes. But there are also some fantastic, Romania SanJovese in Muudiliana in Brazil, for example, but they begin only now to distinguish the different Taral. I would brute. So so you have the two famous West Trebiano debrute, so which is a white one. And, Trebiano debrute. It's not a Trebiano debrute. It's a Trebiano debrute. It is a local clone. Trebiano at a local place. Yeah. Trebiano says it's a green Trebiano. Is more similar to a verdicchio than than a a a Trebiano from, from Tuscany, for example, but the main, the main, variety also is the multiple channel, and there is, I don't know, a misunderstanding because multiple channel is the name of a town in which they make Vino nobility multiple channel in Tuscany, and that is a sangiovese wine. And there is a multiple channel, the blue so that it is a big red wine, very dark, very powerful wine, with some incredible interpreter, like, I don't want to make any name, but, there are, really important interpreter of multiple genre, wines and, powerful runs. Different dark in the color are very aging and very important. Like, I don't know. They they remember me some, alicante wines from his pain. Remind you on the counter. Yeah. Oh, some Malbec from Argentina. No. Sorry. My bad. Very deep. Like that. No. Yeah. What about Pulia? Negromaro. You know, many, many years ago, we call Puy Because the that is plural are three. One is the north that is very close to to a BRudy, and they they grow multiple channel and narrow down and and in the central part, there is Castel de Mont, and it is narrow it through and, of Bianco as white and disalanto that is the hill. Hill of Italy. Yeah. Oh, Italy. It is a flat land, red soil with with necro. Mainly, and some in the sun part, in the western part, there is a primitivo. And, negromaro is a interesting, right, or the big wine, but the primitivo is that same from there. Is the primitivo the joy of the color is, a complete the same thing of, of a Zinfandel. So the the wine that you can imagine now. So in primitivo means the early keeping wine, the the early in wine is the the the quantity of tapivo is a late harvest one, you know, that. So the primitivo is the first white grapes you can take during the harvest. So the primitivo is a big that it's very close to Amarona, for example, in some cases, it's different, of course, because there are one, a thousand kilometers between natural between, Papulia and the Amaro and verona. But, this is very interesting. The comparison on because they are brothers, well, far brothers, you know, in, for for the character of the wine and not for the character of the of the varietals, of course. Okay. That was the oh, let's go to the toe, obviously, which is Calabria. What are the native varieties there? And I'm not sure. Calabrio is Galiapo Maliojo and Grego Galiapo is the variety of chiro. It is the same variety of of the wine of Victoria. That is a fapato and Galiapo is the same thing. And they are close, relatives, to San Jose. For example, probably, mister professor Shaines said that that, they are them. Yeah. They're part of the same family. Yeah. Yeah. Same family. So, and, in Calabrio, they produce not so many wines and not so big quantity wines, but sometimes they are surprising because they are all finds for that they come from the past. Sure. And, and, there is a great tradition. Probably the the winemaking is not perfect, for the moment, but they are improving. Yeah. They'll get it right. I'm sure. Okay. What about liguria which is on the Western coast? Yes. Western and Eastern coast. It's another because there are different, different traditions. Like, for, for example, they are the Pigado in the western part and Rossees that is very close to and or may ask what it is very close to Dolcshedo, Pierre Montez Delczyk. The Vermetino is the only the only variety that is on the west end on the east coast of Libya. And Vermetino is the role, is very close to Codega from Portugal and, the the the, and, there is Verintino in Sardinia, there is Verintino also in the, we're in the task and cost. So it's a Mediterranean, and very interesting white variety in my opinion. They're very drinkable, not so, not so complex, but very interesting. Okay. More white from talk about? Frule even at Cision. Yes. Frule. Bule, it's very similar to Alto Adje for some reasons, but they are close to closer to the sea. So it's a more southern part of, for the weather. And they have some international of a type of items like, sovignon and chardonnay, but they are Pino Bianco, that is from, alsace, of course, from Bogle. But now in Freury, they make a good quantity of Pirovianco, and a good good quantity of two, not native, but traditional varieties like Frigulano that is a Soviet completely disappeared in the war or a Soviet that is completely disappeared in Bordeaux and in in in war, but but very important in fuel. And the Ebola that is, the same in, in, in, for example, and, probably in Greece too, but, is a little different, different clone and different, varietal people for many reasons. And also, Thomas used for these, these, skin contact, white ones. Yeah. But it's very interesting because the orange wine, the or the so called orange wine are very good if you have, white varieties with a lot of polyphenols that are the same of, red wines, the the the the white people that the white singer that blue that sing the blues, you know, is the same, the same idea. And so it's possible to to have a great, interesting orange wine, for example, mister Gravner or, a lot of producer in Carso that is, a part, in the middle between slovenia, Croatia, and, and Italy. Many wine made in this way. Very interesting. Very interesting. Little producer artisan producer that let ferment the white mask with with the skins. And so it's it's very interesting. Right. Another famous white wine from Italy, which is but with bubbles this time is Franca Corta from Lombardy? Yes. Franca Corta. Only French court, there is, you know, in Italy, the the the sparkling wine area is the the country of France. We have the pinot noir in the southern part in Northern Popares in Lombardy. We have, the equivalent of the Valeda in a in the in the middle part, French Accord. And we have the cotte Blanc, mainly, ground in a in a Trento Docs, right, in Trentino, so in the in the upper part that is a country of, of of champagne. And the character very similar. The the bigger wine, and, in, in, the more elegant, probably in the French Accord, the the crispier wine in, in Trento doc. They're very close to some champagne of the côte de blanche. On sparkling wine, but this time, a not bottle fermented one prossecco, prossecco, is, the the the big success, and now, it's possible to produce prosecco in several parts of the northeast of Italy, as you know. But the the the traditional area is valubiadene and, and, Azolo. And in valubiadene, there is a little part of Artobia then called Cartice. That is a a vineyard, a little, a little area, a crew we can call in, in Champpinua, point of view, is like, like, the glera that is, the the varietal is, is a very neutral, varietal. It's possible to make, very, very pleasant wines from, from glera and in the prosseccare. But the prossecco likes to a lot of people. So so Very popular. Very popular. So it's a national popular wine. So it's like a a a big blank Caitre de limu in France or, white, infantel in in California. It's the same idea. Yeah. We we did the, probably, a little more, travel mess in, in, in the winemaking. Because at Sanprosequel very, very nice, not big wines, but very drinkable, very, very nice, easy to drink. And, I think it could be interesting for a lot of people. Okay. Let's go to Venetto, which has another spectacular successful wine, Amaroni? Yes. The Amaroni is a is a modern wine, you know, because, they they invented Amaroni, in the, in the fifties of the last century. So, is wine that exist from, I don't know, seventy years, not more. And, am on it, it's, the cross between a big wine and the and the drinkable wine because the the roundness of of the amarone is very evident because of the alcohol it's like a a dry, a light harvest wine dry. And we're not not sweet. Yeah. I'm with sweet. And the all the the the little sugar that remains and the the alcohol match and I don't know, balance, the tendons. And this is very important. And a lot of people likes that in the in China, in the Far East, in the in America, in Germany, they they like this kind of wine. So, and probably something from there or some barossa Sierra. They are in the same point of view. So Bitcoin, with with a little bit of sugar residuals and, that that, balance lieutenants because I know many people likes the tendons. You know, and the amarone is an answer to this kind of taste. It's a country of the bordeauxlet style, you know, the new bordeauxlet or the super kataskan style. Okay. So finally, we can finish with one of my absolutely favorite wine styles from Italy is reciotto. Ricciotto white or red. You're gonna tell us. Okay. The ricciotto white is, from white varietals, Garganica, Portchotto, so happy, of course. And the variety is from Corvina in Corvino, and Morida is, like, a, a big red wine. It's something, similar to a port of vintage without alcohol added. Without added alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. It's so, wine for lovers of this kind of wines, not very popular and very expensive of course. Probably if you have, I don't know, some, foie gras or some, cheese, blue cheese, the ricciardo or sweet chateau could be could have the same, rule that's the part I have with the And Vincent? Vincent is the real natural wine in Italy because, because the Vincanto, when you make Vincanto in Tuscany, especially, the Vincanto, you didn't add anything that that you leave to the nature to to give to to make the fermentation and to to, forget the the wine in the in the barrel and, hope for the best. You know? And so it's very natural. Sometimes it's fantastic. Sometimes not. So it's a risk, but sometimes could be very, very interesting. Yeah. I think they're sort of almost indestructible. They're very versed. So you can open a bottle, keep it open for a week or two. Still gonna be good. Yes. Great with cheese. Because the alcohol, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Big alcohol because it's a dry white. It's a the the the dry buy grapes wine. So Finally, we're gonna get back to where we started. Latio. They do. Yeah. We got it. Let's take out a couple of, Latio wine or let if you need Latiole, which are made from native grapes. Yeah. For Scott, there are many beanie wines from Latune. I I love some wines from from Latune because the wines of my Yupnez. No. You're here. Because I'm I'm from Rome. So the the wines from Latune, I know where very well. In Fraskari, they are improving now because, because of the Malazir, the Lachio, it is a local, vital, and they are beginning to vilify in, in, in right way. And there are some from, for example, red varieties like cheese and easy. That is very interesting. It is in the southeastern part of the region, and there is, the northern part that is on the border over Umbria and the Orvieto, for example, Moon if you're scone, wine, so not bad. Very crispy and, very, very good to match the local cuisine. This can be quite rich, can't it? If you have a carbonara, please drink Fliskart. Okay. Okay. Okay. Oh, let's, let's end there. That's a tip from a Roman, by the way. That's a good one. Thanks very much, Danielli. Thank you, Montie. Doctor wine, Danielleie told me before this interview. I've known Danielie and I don't know for how many years. My English is isn't so good. Not mine, but it hears. And I was like, you know No. My English is you speak better. No. No. You speak very much. But we're not it's not the not the quite it's what you said, actually, that's as well as the quality of English that is, incredibly impressive, a lovely little tour around it to be. For anybody that's just getting into Italian wine, listen to this podcast, two, three, four, five times, and make sure you follow-up follow-up on these wines and get a little bit of information about the great varieties and the winemaking practice and what people say about these wines. And if you do that, what in a month or two, you will really start to feel confident in Italian wine. Danielle has given you a fantastic template there to follow, and, you're gonna have a fantastic journey. He won't be there by your side physically, but he'll be there on audio. Do you make use of this podcast gonna listen to it again and find out if I missed anything. I hope I didn't. And, I wish you the best of luck, and I'll say thank you once again to Danielli. Check. Doctor Wine. It's been super duper. I'm really so happy. It around. Thank you very much. This podcast has been brought to you by Native Grape Odyssey, discovering the true essence of high quality wine from Europe. Find out more on Native Grape Odyssey dot e u. Enjoy. It's from Europe. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.