Ep 1051 Fabbio Zenato Pt. 2 (Tasting) | On The Road Edition With Stevie Kim

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. And tickets are on sale now. The first early bird discount will be available until August twenty second. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to another episode of On The Road Edition, hosted by Stevie Kim. Each week, she travels to incredible wine destinations, interviewing some of the Italian wine scene's most interesting personalities, talking about wines, the foods, as well as the incredible travel destinations. Hello. My name's Stevie Kimman. This is Mama Jambusham on the road edition. We are here, in lugano area all day today. So we'll be going to a few of the, wineries. Who are awardees of five star wines. Today, we're here with Mr. Zenato, because he's also the president of the consortium, which we will talk about in a little bit consortium of Ligana. But he's also, a winemaker, and his winery is called le morete. Correct? Correct. Yes. Okay. So I just thought before we get we start talking about the consortium, we want to have a little taste of also his wines. Would you mind? Yes. Okay. So, let's start. What what what shall we taste first? The first one we taste, is a Luggana Mandela. Okay. Which is, our flagship wine because this Oh, this is your flagship wine. Okay. This this bottle represents, let's say, two third of our lugana bottles. Okay. So, I mean, this is, the the the base where we start for every tasting. Mhmm. And the bottle that is most representing the winery or anywhere. So let me put here. And this is the recent vintage. Is that correct? That's a fresh vintage twenty twenty one vintage. Mhmm. Twenty twenty one. Yes. Okay. Yes. So tell us a little bit about your flagship line. Lugana Mandada is, for us, is the real ID of the winery and the laboratory. We are located in, basically, regarded as winery. And, most of the vineyards, we run fifty actors of vineyards, and most of the vineyards are in between up here and designer. So two two main blocks, that's safe. And, we want to, really give the authentic expression of the gray variety to Vienna, the indigenous gray variety. The response of this variety on clay soils. Thanks, Scott. We have a medium aged plants, twenty years and plus. Mhmm. And a lot of clay in our vineyards. So this, fresh green sensation, the nose that we normally confirm it on the taste, and it's closing with a great stability and make wine very interesting as, let's say, aperitivo style wine, but at the same time, it's a suggestion wine with a lot of fruit bearing. So how old is your winery? The winery is, quite old because we are back we started back in the sixties. In reality, our company started as a vine nursery. Alright. We've been together by nursery activities, so grafting vines and, wine production. So the one area was started by my grandfather, on a very small dimension that was on larger with my father, Valle Zonato, which is still very important in the wine area because he's the guy at the vineyard. Let's say. He's every day in the vineyard. Right? We are, traditional as in agriculture based on the family. And So you are, related to the Zenate winery. Because you're, obviously, Zanato. Your name is Zanato. So are you how are you related? Our parents are cousins. Oh, okay. Of course, there's a variety of parental, of course. Right. But since the region, we are separated because we are mostly vine nursery. Mhmm. That go as wine related, let's say, with my Right. Right. My father that grow up. And then me and my brother, which are now on show, let's say, are developing the the wine business in a quicker, let's say, early, quicker speed. So, is your nursery specialize in particular type of rootstock? Divine nursery since ever is, of course, specialized in the territory where we live. So the territory of Lake Gada Mhmm. And the the closed area of verona and Breisha mostly. So from soave, and then, of course, the production include also lots of international grave varieties like Mhmm. I mean, chardonnay and all the And who are your who are your clients? I mean, which type of producers? From locally, mostly or also nationally? So mostly are locally. Mhmm. Also because let me underline is the virus reactivity. Mhmm. This kind of trust. You know, the winner is coming and ordering the plants for next year Plantation. Right. And then waiting three years to get the first grape bunches. So in this long time, you need to grow a lot of trust in between a few and your clients. Yeah. Of course. And, this is something that is really characterizing our style. We want to plan project the vineyard with our clients. So the the vine the vendor is coming and asking for a specific direction of his vineyard looking for a better inspection activity or getting a more intensity in the red structure of the wine. And so from there, you start to plan the future of a vineyard and of a wine. Okay. Customs. Right. So are there other nurseries around this area? There are some others in the Verona province, mostly in the eastern shore of Verona, and, in the eastern part of Vanator close to the territory of Frugia, with the the biggest, let's say, player. But our focus is specializing in indigenous varieties. Right. Which is questioning. Okay. Very good. And you are a student of IT Yoshhenza. Right? Correct. Yes. A lot of years ago about the course in Milan. Yes. I'm seeing him tomorrow, so I'll say hello. Thank you. Please do this. Alright. I'm ready for another wine. Would you like to Yes. Next one would be our Ligana Benedictus, which is our crew, Ligana. What is the production, by the way, of the of this? Yeah. Here we are around three hundred and fifty thousand bottles. Okay. Nextola. Yes. Next one is, Benedictus, which is our good guys. Who gives the name of the the Nice. Mhmm. It gets the name from a long line of elbon trees. Okay. Which is circum surround. Let's say most of the vineyards. Yes. Okay. In this case, is the latin name of San Bernardino, our little village. Uh-huh. You know, this area was, let's say, firstly created by the Benedict monks that were in here. Oh, okay. And my grandfather winery was, built in the area of the gardens of the American monks, very close to the church. Okay. So for that reason, we wanted to go back to the Latin of the of the monks, that's it. So here we are with the twenty nineteen vintage. And what is the difference between the two besides the vintages, the two wines, the Benedict. So in this case, the Benedict has a very different profile because single vineyard, very old forty six year old plants, So the the vines are older here. Older. Yes. And, late harvest. So you picked them later. From here to here, we have four weeks. Oh. And four weeks for, white grape are so important in terms of switching the profile of the wine in a, let's say, more ripe sensation in the fruit. And, of course, the skin color is getting much more gold in reflections, and the final color in the glass is moving to this direction of gold. Then here, we have, doing the fermentation that runs with the spontaneous and a terminal terminal control. One portion of the wine is, finishing is ending the fermentation in a French choke to know. This, gets to another direction in terms of texture of the wine and length of the wine. So when did you start producing this wine? I mean, with the with the using the wood, This Because traditionally, it's not, you know, you don't use wood for lugano. Right? Yeah. In fact, the majority of lugano refers to the first one. Right? Yeah. Very clean, very direct. The production of, this wine goes back to the ninety Ninety three, nineteen ninety four, first vintages. Mhmm. So it's a very long, long story in the family. But still maintaining this very, integrated style of the oak aging in the fruity side of the wine. Mhmm. And then it's a normal this day's minimum nine mounting bottle before to be released in the market. Very important to create and moderate the balance inside the sensation of the wine. Okay. And and what about the production smaller? Yes. Of course. Here we are around thirty five thousand bucks. Yes. Much smaller. Yes. Much smaller. And what is the difference in terms of price points, like retail price? Richard price should be let me say, here we are on ten. Ten. Here we are on fifteen. Okay. Fifteen sixteen, I'd say. Yeah. Are you enjoying this podcast? There is so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps or books on Italian wine. Including Italian wine unplugged and much much more. Just visit our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now, back to the show. Okay. Alrighty. And it and when when does it get released? Normally, the year after of the harvest. This is the current vintage. This is ending. We are now in the current meeting on twenty twenty. Oh, okay. So September. Right. Right. And the twenty twenty one will be on a shot normally. You know, it's it varies depending on the season of the harvest and on the evolution in bottle, let's say. Okay. So which one would you prefer? Do you prefer? Considering today a sunny hot day. Not this much. Yeah. Because it's refreshing. But considering, another situation of a nice dinner with a risotto Refundi and so on, for sure second one. He's getting hungry. Enjoy is getting hungry. You said. Okay. Alright. I mean, the second one is much more, a food bearing wine. Yeah. Let's try to do the first one where they refresh and green sensation, I don't mean to understand getting this. Perfectly in this season, let's say. Okay. Alright. I'm ready for the next one. Yeah. What are we drinking next? Next one is as I'd love to say, more than one, it's a project because it's, Uganda. Okay. Uganda, it's, specific topology in the domination, still very, let's say, limited in quantity. But it's longer aging, essentially. Right? It's a Excel. It's based on the potential of aging that Ligana, shows, let's say, as as great. What we are testing today is twenty eighteen. Mhmm. And that's the current vintage. So by regulation, Uganda, it could be released two years after the harvest. In reality, the producers in Uganda, which are not so many, fifteen. Mhmm. On a base of ninety plus wineries are waiting a thirty year So normally, now it's nineteen eighteen, nineteen, the current vintage of this of this wine. Here, we combine part of, let's say, Noma ripening harvest time. Mhmm. And some over ripe grapes, let's say. Sorry. It's a combination. Why? The project here is not only a single vineyard, but it's a, the real potential of the wine looking toward the evolution of the three or four years. So it's something that, of course, mostly are variable vineyards, but not the oldest. Right? And then it can vary the vineyard of region depending on the season. Here, I would say complexity and finesse elegance are the two dominant characters. Is it a little bit more alcoholic? A little bit. Yes. Just a slight. Yes. Correct. Similar to the, similar to the, very similar. Yeah. More less. Yeah. So similar. Very similar. Yeah. But, I mean, in terms of the, the taste, on the palate. What is the main difference? Like, and the blind tasting. What is the difference? In the Benadictus, we the the focus is still on fruity sensation, tropical notes, apricots, yellow pitches, Here in the Uganda server, we are getting deminerality growing up in the wine, and not so much, not so many food dispensation are still there. It's another ripening point on the grapes. Right? Here, nobody does more acidity. Which preserve this is more acidic versus because it has to age longer. Correct. It's I would say it's kind of mandalara in another version. Let's say It's a twenty eighteen. One person, a small portion is ending the fermentation in the virus, and then minimum twelve to eighteen months in bottle, depending on the year. I'm laging. Yeah. For age of correction? So what is what what would you say? I mean, Madolada, you drink straight away, ready to drink. Can Benedict's age as well? Yeah. In your opinion? Yeah. So when when is the optimal time to drink? And the reservoir. That's a good question. Yeah. Benedictus, in my opinion, now we are enjoying this twenty nineteen. Mhmm. Which is in my idea in a very great let's say, shape in terms of complexity and harmony of the sensations. In the reserve, the eighteen, I think can still grow for another three years. So five years is a good point of of, expression of dimension of the wine. Let's say. So you, you think Reservoir can last another couple of years? Can It the optimal? Yes. To the optimal dimension. Yes. I mean, when I'm when I say optimal, I mean, what I mean is will it get better? Yeah. Yeah. It will get better. Now we are in a higher, let's say, in the higher part of the of the of the graphic, let's say, in a kind of plateau. Mhmm. So the the increase now will not be as high as it was in the last two years for this one, in my opinion. Getting to the high quality, high profile stability, let's say, for the next years. Alrighty. And, thank you for this question because the next one will be another in touch of the reservoir. Oh, okay. To how we assess age. Yes. Exactly. Okay. Very good. I'm gonna pour this out. Right? Yeah. Okay. We are ready for the result, and the vintage is? Is the thirteen? Oh, thirteen. Yes. So So Way way older. When did you start doing the reset bar? Elizabeth started in the the the very first vintage was twenty eleven. So we are back to the first two vintages here, let's say. The twenty eleven was the first one, very little number of bottles and of producers. Then two thousand and thirteen were the real initial production phase, let's say. So here we are on a wine that has been bottled. Let me say, in in twenty fifteen. So seven years ago, and here you start to realize the evolution of the Ghana after some years. You see the color is getting this, intense gold reflection, but then on the nose, you have this verticality of the wine. Right? And it's a thirteen. I want I need you to explain to our our audience when you say a wine is vertical. What do you mean by that? The meaning of this in my opinion is, related to the acidity and pH. So these two characters that show kind of, straight direction from the nose to the dominant taste in the mouth, and to the aftertaste. So this, in the end, kind of this minerality shows you the the end of the vertical dimension of the wine, getting this extra salivation, let's say. And in the central phase, the mouth tasting, you have, yes, kind of little fruits, but very, limited. Mostly dominated this salivation and mineralization. I don't know. Maybe it's it's cold, but it's, like, I feel like this is more acidic. You know, and even if it's older. Mhmm. Is that possible? The vintage. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Maybe the temperature is a bit different. You're right. But, alright, this wine, after so long time, for sure, reflects more closely this season. Okay. This is how long can this last? How long can this get like, can you drink it? I would let you know in the next future. Let's see. We still have some less bottles and we have to taste. And, you know, we are speaking about vintage number two. Right. Right. So yeah. This separation, this depology in the appalachian. So still very angry. Okay. But I think that you feel this freshness and this I I mean, yeah. We can switch from the eighteenth to the thirteenth very easily in the taste. That's that's kind of. That's very interesting. Thank you. Thank you for that. Let me outline two notes. This idea started from some producers tasting, let's say, the stainless steel version of the wine after some years. So what's not science was experience and wanting to discover the potential of this variety in a long aging file. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you for sharing your old vintage library line. Okay. Thanks for being here. Okay. Are we done with the wines? Yeah. Okay. Very good. So that's it. Let's just close-up. So we we've tasted, three wines. One is a Mandela, then Benedictus. And two vintages of, the and that was eighteen and fifteen. So check that out. I don't know if they can is this where can the where can they find your wines? How can they find your neurons and where can they find your ones? Oh, we are processing different markets online on the website of the one year for sure. Mhmm. And then also in the market, in Europe, we are well represented and We are approaching United States. We are approaching some foreign markets, but, of course, still a established question. What is what is the diff what is in terms of percentage? Italy and export? We are sixty export for the Italy. Okay. And this sixty of export is mostly Europe. Right. But we are growing in the US mostly in the eastern coast. Mhmm. We are present in Japan. We are in Taiwan. So we are here and there. We are with That's a little flex. That's kinda very good. So that's it. It's a wrap from with We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. Remember, the first early bird discount on tickets will be available until August twenty second. For more information, please visit us at one to one dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love, and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine pot s dot com.