Ep. 1139 Wolfgang Klotz Pt. 2 | On The Road Edition With Stevie Kim

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. Tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to another episode of On the Road Edition, hosted by Stevie Kim. Each week, she travels to incredible wine destinations, interviewing some of the Italian wine scene's most interesting personalities, talking about wines, the foods, as well as the incredible travel destinations. So Wolf gang, we got here yesterday, and we did something fantastic, which I hadn't done before. I don't know how many times you've done it, but would you like to tell our audience what that was all about. Yeah. So we went, one hour off towards the border to Austria, or almost we've got at the border to Austria in Val ridenown, Valriedana, where where the the valley ends. There's a historical mine from the middle age. It was a silver mine that started about eight hundred years ago. And it's not only a mine. It's also at two thousand meters above sea level. So high altitude, low oxygen content. And in that mine, there is a gallery going in for four kilometers. We took a little mining Yes. Train. And it took us twenty minutes to go in the mountain at two thousand meters of sea level, and in there, the temperature is constant at eleven degrees Celsius for the whole year long, beautiful duck. Very dull. High humidity. Yeah. And then at certain point, the train stops. And then we made a walk in this lumpy watery gallery Yeah. To get the place where we store, Apocalle. Okay. This This is what we were coming to. So why? Why did you have this idea? The project started on the wine. Two thousand nine was the first vintage. And then we had this international spat laser style of Cabotz tomina that got lost in our digital, although we had it in the middle age. We know that in the middle age, most of Cabotz tomina has been grown in with a little bit of Frushida or sugar for different reasons. Sugar back in the time was like gold. And on the other hand, also from the analogical part of food, it was not possible to make always the whole wine for men till the end with the techniques of the times. And so we took this style from that epoch. That's why, and then it was, in our Earth to show the potential of aging of Cabelstomino. We have seen on on Nuspalmo that ages very well and we think sometimes it was underestimated because Caboza Amina very often is seen as an easy simply wine, but we would like to show the the aging potential. So we were looking for a place where to hit the bodies, basically. And not having a good aging cellar in the winery. And then looking around, this mine came up. It's a closed mine used as a museum. And so we asked the permission to store wine. And then in two thousand nine, we kept them for several years. It was released in end of two thousand seventeen. And then what happened? And then Something crazy happened. Right? Epoca then two thousand and nine became the first Italian white wine to get, one hundred points by Parker rated by Monica Larno. Monica Larno. In twenty eighteen, though. And that, obviously, for us, it changed a lot for the company, obviously, for our growers, It helps us a lot to convince people even more to put efforts in the vin vineyards because they see that this is a good way to follow, and and obviously it was a great moment for us. Yeah. So it was the first Italian white wine ever to get, hundred points from Babapaca. And I guess the first wine also outside of Tuscany and Piamonte. Yeah. You're right. It's the first wine right or white outside Tuscany and P. It's a huge achievement. And it was, like you said, a little bit unexpected. It was a surprise who the hell knew you were going to get a hundred point line. And then now, how has it evolved since? We made twelve hundred regular size as over seventy five. Yes, sir. With the timing of the tasting, and the wine being under the snow, Monica collects the wines, at least back in the times, April, May. Mhmm. We still had the wine in the mine. So everything came out a year after. The one thousand two hundred bottles were already gone. Yeah. When the rating came out but Oh, so you didn't have any bottles? Not really. Oh my god. I didn't understand that. So the rating came out hundred points, and that's usually when, like, the wine sales explode, but you you were all sold out, basically. Yes. Oh. Still, it was, Yep. But, still, it was amazing. Absolutely. Absolutely. First of all, today, we had this lovely tasting of Epokale. They make very small production as what gang said in the beginning, twelve hundred seventy five bottles. So the current release is two thousand fifteen. Two thousand fifteen. So today, we had a vertical tasting of two thousand nine, two thousand ten, two thousand eleven, two thousand twelve, thirteen, and fifteen. Now two thousand fourteen is missing. Why is that? Two thousand fourteen was, a very special vintage. It wasn't necessarily a bad vintage for everything. Obviously, it was a very difficult vintage for every culture. Some labels became very good. Came kind of different twenty fourteen. We didn't have that much heat. It was, yeah, it was cool. It was cool. But back in the times, we said, let's bottle this wine, and let's see what happens. It's not a huge amount of bottles, and we brought it to the mine. We brought it last year to the winery, with the idea to sell it, like, maybe a little, like, pocale or something, but we believe that the wine is were for more than being a wine that didn't get to the goal. Right. Right. So we said, bring it all back. We brought it back. Alright. And I will see in two, three, five, ten years. Well, we saw the two thousand fourteen vintage sitting in the mine still. We know that fifteen is the current vintage, which will be in the market. You said, are we going to taste the wine? And so we, yeah, we kind of pushed them to bring back a few bottles and we had a tasting afterwards. And it was more like an appetitivo. So what did you think about the two thousand and fourteen? I think it's promising. To get to see, to get the wine aged and stored that long. Obviously, it's as leaner than than the others. Doesn't have the complexity of the others, but there are other parts we won't see on the classic epicale, but we'll see. Yeah. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond. Meeting winemakers, eating local food, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. So, with gang, you know, you have this incredible, huge successful wine, but it's just one wine. What is your vision in terms of promoting or marketing or, this wine? Because, actually, you don't have that many bottles. So it's almost like you don't need any marketing. So what do you do as the director? How do you want? How are you planning to allocate? Because I understand, like, first of all, what is the price of the wine? By the time, the natural shelf price will be about one hundred fifty euros. Mhmm. But with the last years, we have seen that the wine got his own move for his own. Yeah. So the second there's a secondary market movement, right? Because there are few bottles. And there is prestige linked to having or owning a bottle or drinking a bottle. So everybody wants this. So this naturally drives their price up. Yeah. So our plan is, started in a way, way beginning, that we'll love to have this wine, first of all, in the in the restaurant, because we believe that that's the moment where the wine cuts his best expression by a poor professional somebody with the right play, with the right dish, It's the right moment spending time in the restaurant and not having the wine left in some some sellers. That idea started from the very beginning, so we did an allocation on a on a list of restaurants. And, then we gave a kind of a right to rebuy the wine, the ones who started from the very beginning. Okay. And with the success the wine had and the request they had in the restaurant, basically those continued to rebuy and a tiny amount of the balls end up for the retail part of of the market, and that would be like this. But we have two plots, what we use, for epocales we have seen today. And in the first vintages, a part of that, wine still ended up in Nuspelmann, and still that's Oh, okay. Alright. But from the one thousand two hundred bottles, with two thousand fifteen vintage, we are on two thousand, almost two thousand five hundred bottles. And the next vintages, they will be between two and a half and three thousand bottles, depending how much the vintage So I have a question for you. So most most of our audience, I mean, most people will never have a chance to get a hold of this bottle. Right? Well, that's a fact, whether you like it or not. Okay. So if they were, to try to understand which one of your five, six wines that you produce, which is close to kind of give you an idea to put the similarity of Epokale. I know it's original. Okay? But something to kind of give you an idea, the look and feel of Epokale, which wine would you recommend for them to try? I would suggest to try generally our gevils terminus because the spice of the gevils terminus will be fine in this area is different than in in other areas. More on the floral part. Wolf gang, let's try this. We're in a blind tasting. Yeah. You have two, like, benchmark, like good quality, good wine from good, winemakers. One is from Alsace. One is from Alto Adije. How can you tell the one from Alto Adije? Ninety eight percent of the Alto Adije is dry. Okay. It's not in in El Paso. Okay. And with that, Elsoas usually seems to be bigger body. They don't have this this piece of freshness. A classic kibbutzomina from from Alto Adi just still have a beautiful ripe fruit. No bitter note in the end. We've tasted, one, two, three, four, five, six. Epicale today. I felt like every single vintage was different. It had a different tasting profile, completely different, one from the other. Right? Of course, the nine was, like, it was a fruit bomb. It was, like, everything was like screaming. Right? And then you get to the fifteen, and I feel like it's Willie called it, I guess, elegant, more elegant and more fine, but it was a little bit more muted for me, especially on on the nose. He said to me, as I get older, I trust much more my palate than my, my nose. What do you think about that? It was a process with what that we went through with with, Apokale. Yeah. Starting with the first that, I won't say by accident, but it's not that the wine stops to ferment just like the point where we like in the way we do it because we believe it's good to chill the wine. It's not that we go in very harsh. We chill a bit the wine, and there's But do you do stop fermentation? Yeah. But just by chilling a bit. Mhmm. And then every vintage starts or reacts different. There are some, they react they react very immediate, and the fermentation slows down very immediate and stops, and their others, they take longer. And we believe this is this process, this natural process of stopping the fermentation by giving just a little hint, but having a natural balance. Obviously, after two thousand nine, we thought it might be too much. So we started to chill a little bit later. Because when the wine was young, the sugar was very present and was very present on on the palate, And on the end of the palate, it's not like when we taste two thousand nine, there's a lot of fruit and flavors and spices going on. Every so much going on still, even now. And still vibrant. Yeah. It's very, very much alive. When it was young, there was a lot of wine, but what stood was sugar. And and that was boy was difficult. Right. Right. And we we didn't know that it will evolve that. Right. Good. So that's why we it took a few rintages with a lower yield. And by the time of aging the wine in the mine, this sugar started to being transformed in power and and elegance. And we already saw that here starts to a process that might get a beautiful result. So already then with two thousand thirteen, we went back to more and more concentration, and especially then with fifteen. Being tinged by. Yeah. It's more more residual sugar. Yeah. From the, from the thirteen. As we've seen. So this one right here. That in this, the few wines, a few style of wines, where more sugar is not necessarily mean more concentration. And less sugar is not necessarily more freshness. As we have seen in the tasting, the two thousand fifteen probably is the most vibrant of of every every vintage we've seen. Although it's It has height. Yeah. Fifty five grams. It's more concentrated, but on the drinking palette, It's the most vibrant and the most elegant and is still young. It's a nose that is still very very young. This wine has a beautiful, beautiful future. Yeah. Aging potential. Right. And, and, will take the way in, like, two thousand and nine that this sugar more and more we got balanced out and introduced in the wine, and the power remains, and, and, how many gross. So which one was your favorite today? From today's tasting? From today's tasting, fifteen and nine. Mhmm. Two thousand nine is the the bigger wine, two thousand fifteen. A very important wine or fibrous here. Finesse? Finasse. Yeah. Listen, how many wines do you produce? How many labels do you have? Only thirty three. Yeah. Only thirty three. So today, we only spoke about actually Gheostarminer. But they make all sorts of wines, thirty three to be exact, including one of my favorite Skava, of course. He's not too crazy about Scava. But so we'll just have to come back. Thank you so much, Wuf gang, for having us today, and taking us to the line. It was an incredible experience. Alright. Thank you. Thank you very much. And I hope to see anyone off the audience here at Continue Army. We hope you enjoyed today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Living, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.