Ep. 1441 Cha McCoy | On The Road With Stevie Kim

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to another episode of On the road edition hosted by Stevie Kim. Each week, she travels to incredible wine destinations, interview some of the Italian wine scene's most interesting personalities talking about wines, the foods, as well as the incredible travel destinations. Alright. Okay. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Italian podcast. And today, we have a special guest. She's popeye. Her name is cha McCoy and chao chai. That's kind of a tongue twister, actually. That's why I have to make sure they dance cha cha cha. A child cha. It's actually child Bella. Yeah. So you lived in Italy, actually. Right? Yes. I lived here for two years. This is actually how I got into wine. I was doing my MBA in Rome Mhmm. Back in two thousand and ten, and studying international finance and moved back to the States, New York City, where I'm from in two thousand and twelve. And found myself falling in love with wine while I was here. I like to say it was my souvenir for living. Some people find, you know, husbands and You found wine. I think that's kind of a good plan. Listen, but let's start from the beginning. Yep. Okay. So where are you from originally? From New York. Right? New York City, Harlem, New York. Right. And how did you get to Italy? Why did you come to Italy? I think that just being a New Yorker, you are obviously exposed to Italian Americans from a New York perspective. So I like saying that it felt very natural for me to choose Italy, but it was an option for my MBA program to actually complete or do your entire, MBA in Rome I was tired of doing my full time job. I was I'm an engineer. What were you doing? Yeah. I'm an engineer, civil engineer by trade, and I was ready to switch it up. I had that, quarter life crisis, I guess, quit my job. After I got into my MBA program and was very interested in moving away. That's that was it. And they told me about the program. I was I was super excited to get accepted and move out to Rome for it. Okay. So you were working as an engineer in New York Yes. What kind of an engineer? Yes. So what construction? Yes. Oh, wow. That's a big jump. Yeah. I guess I started learning so much about wine makers have engineering backgrounds now. I I think we actually end up Kismic end up being aligned anyway, but especially farming techniques, agricultural engineering, how many people have that farming background, and I end up connecting when I talk to winemakers and I should say venue managers the most. So where are you based now? That's a good question, everyone. Because you lived in Italy for two years. Correct. Right? And then Move back to New York. You moved back to New York, and you worked at New York for central. I worked. I worked in New York. Yeah. What were you doing in New York? Still engineering and paper bills. The New York is expensive. Very. And in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, it's actually when I transitioned completely into wine, meaning I quit engineering, but I was still working at a wine shop in Harlem, New York. Called the winery. Mhmm. That's my first job in wine as well back in two thousand and twelve when I moved back to New York. And I was doing that part time as I was still working on engineering into Yeah. You had the wine bug. You caught the wine bug. Correct. And you were still like because, you know, to make money Yeah. Let's be very honest Right. In wine, it's not that easy. I think that, and you know, I've mentioned you in many rooms, as people, someone who, a woman who inspired me, especially women of color who inspired me in this industry just following, I like saying the greats and seeing that you gotta think outside the box, if you're not coming in with fourth generation, why make her money in this industry. So you have to be creative, innovative in order to make it in. So you are someone when I learned about you, I knew that I can make it because I seen it as hope, but I gotta be creative. I can't think linear, like my father's father's gonna pass me down and be born into the industry in that way. So so, yes, I kept working in engineering while still visiting a lot of winemakers. And that's actually like what I talk about the most is how they asked that favorite question. What was that wine bottle that made you fall of a wine and give you the wine bug? And I always tell them It was no bottle. I moved to Italy, and I think travel has always been the place where I'm able to connect and be able to understand why the most is being in the terroir, in the dirt talking with the winemakers. So that's always been part of my motto about learning about wine, get outside the books, go out there and learn from the winemakers. So for engineering actually helped actually pay for me to be able to move the chili for three months. And I started I just started going on a road. So if I just took the job, I, like, many times, I asked to be a sommelier and and I wasn't, I wasn't getting the roles, even though I knew Italian, and I was, like, this is confusing. How come I'm not getting these jobs? We know now because many people are speaking up about being a woman of color, being a black woman and not getting the jobs. That we knew we was very much qualified for. I just took it as okay. I'm a keep learning. I'm a keep going out there on my own. And thank god. I had the funds to do that from my engineering job. So I continue to travel to Italy. I wanna say I've been to most of the regions here from my two years living here and then coming back afterwards. I developed a community living in Rome that continued to visit. So tell us a little bit about where you visited your learning experience about Italian wine. This is called Italian wine podcast. We do often do kind of the deep dive into the Italian wine. Tell us your experience in Italian wine. Yeah. I mean, I fell in love with I was basically somewhere around Khanuby, I believe. I just didn't know what Khanuby was. Right. And I think that when I was traveling at that time, I didn't know the levels and, you know, oh, this is Piedmont. You gotta learn about Barola. I just knew somebody said my Zio has a house over here. Do you wanna come? And I'm like, yeah, you know, and just learning, I would say very authentically, and it felt very accessible when I lived here. So that's why when I went back to America and, you know, who's drinking what and this kinda cult around certain wines and producers. I was like, I I met him. He's very nice god. I really, you know, but on the wine list or around other songs, you could get this energy that people like praising a guy. I'm like, he's like a dad who owns a few goats. So I had a more human perspective. Right. And I really love that. So just being able to spend time in Pulia, I've been in the Make, Kianti, of course. These are over now, over a decade worth of traveling. Specifically here. I'm here for Veneto on industry trip. They brought us in to do a deep dive on Swave in Papelicello. And on my own, I'm actually connected with a lot of people with Prosecco. DOC. I was with DOCG yesterday. And I'll be spending the rest of my time with the DOCG region. I've been teaching match the classes in New York on Prosecco. So for me, the fact that I was in Veneto right now, it makes sense for me to be able to have that kind of in the trenches conversations with some of the the makers that I feel like needs more recognition. So that's my story as far as Italy continuously coming back over the years, visiting what I call my Italian family, which is basically my friends who never moved back to America And I would say my last trip here was in twenty eighteen. And, you know That's a quite long time ago. Yeah. Well, the pandemic in between Right. And then I moved to Portugal. Right. Okay. So there's a slight detour into Portugal. How did that happen? Why didn't you stay? Why weren't we able to keep you in Italy? I know. You may give me that. This trip has convinced me. Verona's beautiful. I could tell you that I didn't know you. Yeah. I wish I had more mentors. I think I really was at a loss with Italy. I didn't know how to actually, like, break in and do what I wanted to do. I also was feeling very, you know, just living in Italy and not knowing how to make something work the time. I was still willing to do engineering the same way I would did in New York didn't be able to work my way into Italy. But to be honest, after I left, I actually learned more going back to the states and seeing how to industry move learning, especially in New York cities, knowing how to maybe even you can't get a seat at the table, maybe just being in the room at all, being able to be in contact with so many people. And then I was like, I'm ready to go. And when I was ready to go, I just didn't know where. And, to be honest, it, of course, returning back to Italy was on the list or an option. But I really wanted to explore somewhere new and possibly somewhere a little bit cheaper. So, Portia, going to be in a less expensive in Lisbon. I don't know if you've been in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. But is it considerably less expensive in Lisbon? In Where where were you in Italy? Based in Rome? In Rome. Yeah. In Prati. Okay. Today, I would say no. But at that time, when I was researching twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, it was lower if you lived in the outskirts and very easy to, move around. So that was what I needed to and it obviously straight flights to New York so I can get back to family because I also thought about South Africa, but, just knew that the commute or trying to get back home was gonna be more difficult if that was the case. So But that's where end up winning is one of the be on the beach is whenever I wanted to, that kind of what they call search and sun life of Lisbon. So that's how they got me. Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guide to Italian wine, sangiovese Lambrusco, and other stories, and much much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. So you're in Lisbon. What are you doing in Lisbon now? I was a sommelier for a Michelin Star restaurant in a Bario Alto region or area of Lisbon. And then Next, you know, the pandemic hit and the rest are closed. And then I found myself at a loss living in in Portugal or a foreign country alone with no family where everybody else was able to, you know, go back home or be it sheltered with a family, and I didn't have that. And so that was something where I was like, okay, I have to rethink life. You know, I think everybody was having a, you know, one of those moments during the pandemic. And so I was excited to be able to open up a I saw that Lisbon at that time, you know, natural wine, low intervention wine was becoming a thing. And a lot of New York distributors and import companies, I would see them come into Portugal to learn about wine, and I actually thought, okay, there's an opportunity for me to help and consult. The one thing I do know between Italian wines, and not trying to say it is not, doesn't need any help from anyone, but, is that Portugal was definitely underrepresented is not a big section in your WSTT studies in bogus books. So that's why if I was Even Italy is underrepresented in WSet. Okay. This is one of the reasons why it started Vine International Academy, because there is no deep dive. And, I mean, to be quite honest, I mean, it's really quite complicated. Right? It's like daytime. Yes. Yes. So that's how Portugal end up winning for me because what you've created here with Italy, I realized that Portugal needed help. And therefore, when there's a place that has a need and you feel like you can support, I saw it myself as possibly being an asset. So I created Airbnb experiences where I would take people will come into Lisbon onto tours to smaller vineyards. That's, like, not that doesn't have, like, a a map. They're not on the map, I guess, for you to find on your own. I was calming. I had, like, no days off. And then, Lisbon has become a tech hub, and they created a incubator program for people in the food and beverage space. And so I was part of a nine week program on top of that for entrepreneurs in food and beverage. So that ended up being and I ended up doing a business competition for ten thousand euros. So that was a big like, no days off for, like, nine weeks straight of me being on the restaurant floor, me being part of the accelerator program. And then when I thought I could sleep, I may get booked for Airbnb experience. So that was, I had fun doing it though, to be honest, but I was exhausted at the end. But I see there was a lot of growth and potential, and I think more people are paying attention to Portuguese wines. And I was trying to be the, I guess, the you, of Portugal in that way where how do we get more people interested in underrepresented regions and grapes, of course. Right. So listen, you, you know, I'm reading your bio here and you have thousands of accolades, right? Like, Wine enthusiasts as top forty under forty, wine spirits magazine rising black voices in wine, etcetera, etcetera. Do the Europeans or the Portuguese know even know what this is. Like all, you know, you're you're very, you know, humble, but you are, you know, established wine personality. But do the Portuguese understand that or the Europeans in general? Because I feel like, you know, there is a little bit of disconnect, right, of American wine world and the European wine world. What is your thought in that? There's two parts, and I would say that especially since I have the experience of working on the floor as a Psalm. So how do you respect me as a Psalm working on the floor in Portugal with those accolades is different than me flying in and saying, hi, I'm coming to Prosecco and someone's treating me like, oh, shall we would love to host you, etcetera. Right? So the how do the winemakers, the marketing departments feel about everything that I've accomplished and what I've done to up to today? And then when you're working on the floor, I think now you you're getting a real life experience. Right? You're now you're immersed They don't care about your accolades, you know, go get the bottles. Right? So I've had both of being with the people, not just someone flying in and visiting. And so I would I would say maybe a contention on the floor You still gotta work your way up in this restaurant. You're not the boss. You know, so that's just a reality check. No one cares about your top forty under forty. You don't do the wine list here. I have a boss, you know, so you still gotta work your way up and make a name for yourself in your local community. And so I appreciate you saying that about me being humbled about what I've accomplished, but, I'm here. So you're still quite young? Yes. Yes. That is correct. I am still quite young. And then hopefully, it is something to know, this empire is really a bigger mindset. Then I don't need to be the boss at this restaurant because I'm going for something bigger. So I guess that's my mindset. In the room, if you're the one that is creating a wireless, no problem. I respect your decision. Yeah. So is very humbling to be in places where they're like, well, you don't know the language fluently and we need you to be the expediter. So you will not be working on the floor doing any of the the wines today. And so that was the reality of what I went through. So do you speak is your Portuguese better than Italian? Oh, no. It's crazy. I I feel like I came off the train atalia and feeling like I was like, oh, wow. I think I just got my ticket. I ordered my food. Right. I didn't say didn't speak English to no one today. Right. It made me feel good. Right. Portugal? No. No. Right. And the interesting part is because in Portugal is so many, people who actually look more like me. So more people think I'm Portuguese Right. Walking around. So everyone will ask me for directions, especially if they think I'm from Brazil or from Angola, you know, or Satume. So a lot of the ex colonies have, moved over to back to Portugal or to Portugal for a better life or make more money. And they think I'm just a cousin, and that's okay with me too. So I hope that there's a little bit difference because I get tested way more often because most people think that I speak, Portuguese. Right. Right. I try to Yeah. So listen. Chow. What what are what are your ambitions? Like, what would you like? How do you see yourself? Where? I know this is kind of, you know, I know it's very cliche, but Yeah. Where do you see yourself in, like, three, two, five years down the where would you like to be? I mean, it's, of course, it's about the journey, not the destination, but Of course. Where do you see yourself? Well, you know what? I was opening a shop when I was here in Europe, when I was living in Lisbon, a wine bar slash shop. So I end up opening a store in New York upstate during the pandemic on my spare time. So having that shop open and actually learning the ins and outs of a brick and mortar has been interesting now, being able to be a wine entrepreneur for me. Now I have my own space to manage, and that's up near the Finger Lakes wine region. Oh, I have finger legs. I always talk about, again, small wine regions that need more help and more love. So that question, I feel pretty loaded, because especially being on a trip and being here with you right now, I do hope to be back in Europe and having something established here where I'm not visiting, where something is I have like a headquarters here in this way. Now with your last question. Right? Now I'm debating on is it gonna be Portugal or Italy, so there's gonna have to be a fight about that. Right. But, I can tell you right now, the Portuguese would rather be confused with it or battle with Italy than Spain any day. As you Right. Like, that's that's a whole another level of, heat that they got. But, but I would I'm definitely in a place where I do need to be bic continental, and that made me having, something created for me to come back to here. My book will be released by that point. Oh, you're working on a book. You didn't tell me that. Yes. What what are you working on? So my wine dinner, series, the communion has now, which is now the name of my shop, the communion, has now been picked up by Harper Collins. That's fantastic. Congratulations. Thank you. So the communion, the pop up was all about pairing wine with foods from other ethnicities and cultures. So it's been a fun journey. Just discovering more wines or wines I haven't had in a long time and trying to see what's gonna go well with pho or what's gonna go good with Tableugin from Synagogue. So when is this when is this coming out? It's due November. So so let's just say it's, it's definitely coming up where everything is gonna be handed in, and we got next year to try to, you know, finalize everything with photos. And I feel like that's the next journey is leaving a legacy behind. In a way like Harbor our state side or the UK? It's well, we have the rights to it worldwide. Okay. Yeah. So it's, yeah. So I'm excited to see. That's that's fantastic. You should come to wine to wine and present that. Have you ever been to wine to wine? I haven't. Yeah. It's in November. Okay. It's a it is actually our tenth anniversary edition. So it should be interesting and it's about Italian celebrating Italian wine ambassadors. Okay. So, we can talk about that. Yeah. In educating, later. I think that's the thing. That's the reason why the book was important because I can I can reach more people through the book and educating that way? So now educating people about prosseco in a master class or port wines. I feel like, you know, e anywhere they want me to teach and people love my style. I'm an adjunct professor right now. I love to wear Where about Syracuse University, near the store of State New York. So I think this how do I see myself? The question is really about how can I still leave seeds of all the work that I've been doing in some way with other people when Hopefully, they'll be inspired? You know, I just want I want, I like calling myself, like, the solo traveler who've taken on, the lifestyle of, you know, wine and realized how hard it was to be in this industry and recognize I needed to focus, put my head down, and I committed and, you know, and I hopefully when people look at me, they they realize the the benefits they see that I'm reaping now. It all comes from true, hard work, you know, true dedication and studying and grinding out. So, hopefully that's what I'm leaving behind as well. That's fantastic. Chad, listen. I'm looking at your Insta, account. It's first of all, it's called Chawsquad. Chaw underscore square. Yeah. Chawdsquad. What what does that mean? Why is it squared? So funny story, I guess. My so my nickname growing up is cha cha, you know, got too grown if you call cha cha, so it was just like cha squared. So me double. Right? But, you know, same time I realized, you know, being a black woman in this industry, I was gonna have to work twice as hard. So I was like, you're gonna get me, you know, out here grinding. No one knows where I'm at. Are you in New York or are you in Charleston? I'm also, the beverage director for Charleston won a food festival for the past two years. So people are like, are you in Charleston? You're in Italy? You're in York. I can't find you. Oh, that's fantastic. Tell me about that. Yeah. So It's a Charleston food Wine and food. Festival. Yeah. Charleston Wine and Food festival. It's the first week of March. It it's been going on for seventeen years, but I was the beverage had a beverage for the twenty twenty two Festival in twenty twenty three. And, yeah, it's a monstrosity to say the least. Oh my goodness. Or you keep yourself busy, young lady? Yes. Four days, one hundred and eleven events. We would love to do Italian master class. You guys should definitely come over. Oh, we need to talk about that. We do about, we have everybody teaching classes from Eric Asimov, Alice firing, Andre Mac. That's dispatchia alone So I break in everybody to come in and really try to set up a shot to set this. Is it a is it a, like, a b two? It's a wine lovers event, right? Or is it? It's actually both. So especially underneath my, you know, I I feel it's my direction and inspiration. It went it was more consumer driven before more people are coming for trade because of the caliber of people who are coming. And we do do wine, spirits, cocktails, beer, etcetera, especially with the Carolinas, very focused on beer making in that area too. Mhmm. I did a event, whether it's on hybrid, grapes, you know, and I mean, within our classroom. So we have, we take over a hotel each year, and we call that our beverage hub and we take over the conference rooms and that's where the classes. So the ones who are the beyond the enthusiasts, the ones who are really the connoisseurs wanna learn more, they come to those workshops for that. The ones who wanna go, I don't know, drink all day at the tent outside. They have that event outside. And we have different thematic food related, and Charleston is a beautiful city and amazing for culinary roots. So we do a lot of food ways and It's all types of events I could talk all day about that festival. Again, a hundred and eleven events, we see almost thirty five thousand people. How many days? Four days. So it's it's huge. Yeah. Wednesday to Sunday. Every day. Wow. Congratulations on that. Thank you. So so Chosqued? Yes. You live in Portugal, but you're all over the place. Yes. Basically. Yes. So how long do you stay? Like, your residence in Portugal goal. Well, unfortunately, I have, I'm back in New York because the store is in New York. So once this I opened up the store last year. Oh, okay. So that's where I do most, I guess that's where I would call my base today because there's so much work and to be able to help support family that's there. But so now I'm more coming into Portugal and now Italy, for the first time since the store opened, which was last with construction, etcetera. I had to be focused there. To get that up and running. So but yeah. Right now, you'll find me more in New York than anywhere. Okay. Fantastic. So I'll have to hook you up when I'm in New York. Listen. So you're looking at your Insta account. You're quite popular. So are you? No. So you are active, obviously. Oh, lightly lightly active. What kind of, like, this is completely a personal branding page? Are you doing this by yourself? What do you use? I am doing this by myself. That's probably why it's not enough post there, but I live for my stories though. So if you really wanna keep up with You give me your social media strategy. Here we go. Okay. Now you make me feel horrible because I have I have none personally. Right. But I would say You know, just got overwhelming and you know what? I love of course, I would love to be paid and do partnerships with things on social media. But when you can't, I love when brands allow me to do the creative portion. Not this is what we want you to say. This is what we want the image. And when I got too much direction from other people. I I end up staying away from that because I wanted to still feel authentically like me. So I appreciate, so I haven't done any, like, paid programming strategies on my social in a while. Right. But, when it's when I start turning to that. So I love anybody who's like, Shah. We we know you. We we know how you operate. I'm like, everything gotta have an educational angle. I'm not here just taking pictures and looking cute in the vines for you. So that's just part of my memory. Or in a bikini. Yeah. You won't be you know what? Steve, if I can get into a bikini and look good with the extra, you know, pandemic weight I'm carrying, I may do it because it's gonna be more of my I made it y'all. I dropped the fifteen to twenty pounds. Like I said, you know, we're gonna open some share and pay for that. For sure. So you know what? That post may be a real one because that means I dropped the weight, but, but yeah. So in this case, it's hard to do that. My strategy is usually when I feel inspired to say something I post. Know, like, she's on my page right now. It's actually intimidating to everybody. But, you know, it is, like, the last post on my feed is literally me doing the blind tasting for, wine and spirits magazine, and I was invited to to be able to do the judging for Finkle Lakes wine. So for me, I felt like this is a moment. We're not usually called into the rooms. So back to what you asked about, cha, you have forty under forty. You're this. You're that. You know, how do Europeans feel even in America, that was my first time ever being asked to judge. So, I mean, if you can have over knowledge, if they're not calling you, I think my work speaks for itself. You was able to see that in a few minutes. You know, but they do I need to go out and call everyone literally. Maybe some people, I have no problem with this, but I'm always open to opportunities. And then I think people just get comfortable with calling the right, the same person all the time or same people all the time. So hopefully, even with everything that I've accomplished that people still realize that my heart my heart is still in Italy, as well as, you know, Portugal and a lot of other regions whenever anything is going on, whether it's classes, whether it's trips, whether it's judging. I'm always open to that. Have you been to, Aetna? Never. So, yeah, we have, we organize a trip in Tarmina in Aetna area. Oh, cool. Every October. Got it. So we'll talk about that when we're off the air. We'll learn that. But, definitely we organize it every year for the past, I think five, six years. Yeah. And it's it's a it's an it's a wonderful trip. So hopefully you can join us. I would hope. Yeah. So that there you go. You have something to do. And I'll post that. Okay. It's like this, social media. Sometimes I really just wanna, like, post how you feel. You're out to wait. Hold on. Too many people are gonna, watch this, but so I was, like, okay, this is the store this is one for the story so it can, like, disappear in case I feel like I don't like them, you know, next week. I mean, you know, it's like, it's almost like, you don't want it to, like, live forever on your feet. So I'm highly active in my stories. And I only curate, I guess, if you wanna say my my traditional posts, I guess. So listen, what's the plan? What's what are the summer plans? Beyond wine, I really do love spirits. I think that's the the great part of, like, now having the store. We are a wine and spirit shop and just even doing a role at the head of beverage. I mean, I get to talk to brewers. I get to talk to distillers. So I say that to say because next month, I'm very excited that I'll be, back in New Orleans. Fort tails of the cocktail, and just geeking out on whiskey. Today is National Urban Day whenever Okay. Just get posted if you were bourbon drinkers, and just doing deep dives on spirits as well. Just two weeks ago, I just actually just got back from Halisco, which is where tequila's from. So that's the last trip I was on before I I was in, before I route to Italy. So just being able to do the work that I believe is needed for the spirits industry, mixologists jobs are to be the creators. Right? So some people don't ask what is the burden that you use for my cocktail. Right? But if we take a samoye's approach to spirits, which I like to do, it actually allows people to understand and question the same way we do about organic grapes, etcetera. Right? So, like, natural wine making and everybody who's going for more low intervention biodynamic farming practices, wouldn't you expect the same thing to happen for your Agave, for your tequila? Agave, tequila is now out, number of sales, outpacing sales for than Vaca right now. So being able to understand tequila the same way and other Agave spirits, like, everybody's, like, the, I guess, they're saying Mexico, I learned everybody's very excited that the teat tequila is doing well. At the same time, they want them to respect the tradition and understand just like how we have DOCs and DOCGs here. They also have their own protection. You can't make tequila anywhere. And most people just doesn't don't have that level of information yet about spirits and so again. You know, I'm just listening to you and I understand you're so well versed and it's complete Greek to me paradoxically. Right? So great job with that, Cha. Thanks. Listen, Cha. So before we go Okay. Okay. Because you have a train to catch, to go to Venice. We need to have, yes, pizza in Landruisko, because that's the best combination. And if I cannot, let you go without asking you this one last question. What is your favorite wine? In Italy. Okay. Italian wine and wine. To be honest, I mean, I really I love prossecco, and I think we need to be more, I guess, as, instead of just talking about champagne and feeling like we must you know, we're putting down Presecco when we say that. I think it feels good to actually like Presecco. So deep diving into the rive and having Cartice, it's been very emotional for me to be honest be up there in a place that I kinda admire from afar and hope that we have more access to, somebody's more higher in Proseccos in the US. And thank god. That's the reason why I opened my own store is so I can buy them if I want it may have them in a shop. And I'll I'll drink it alone if I need to, but I really do love that. And I think that, I always tell people that, Barolo was my first love. And and that came just genuinely. I had no idea about price point. Thank god. I was, but people said, you know, good wine is made here. I told you I had my friend Zio that became my, like, fake uncle for those who don't know, Zio is uncle in, Italian. And I went out and visited Barolo at my early years in, wine, and very was, very much connected to Nipiolo. So, so, yeah, I'm definitely a barolo girl. And In Prosecco. In Prosecco. But listen, I must ask you one additional question. How do you explain the difference between number one? Prosecco, DOC and DOCG. I mean, two wine lovers. And then Carartice, versus, you know, prossecco doceti. Like, how do you explain these categories? Yeah. I get let's start with Cartice being almost like the grand crew level. If if you know champagne. Mhmm. So if you see Cartice, they definitely gonna say it. You know, Presecco may not give a lot of information, but you that tells you about the quality. The more information you see on a bottle of Presecco, I think that then explains that you're moving up in the US. You can find Praseco for five dollars. So Exactly. So in this case, if someone wants to know, why would I pay fifty dollars per praseco? And in five dollars, if they're all praseco, this is I always tell people look at how much more information that usually triggers, even if you don't know what it mean, if it's telling you it's coming from a specific region, subregion hill, in this case, Cartite. Every Cartite I had, which is part of the DOCG, for those who don't know, they just have additional sun exposure to the grape, mostly glera. And I wanna say, like, ninety nine percent glera with, clearly some field blends of, like, tribiano's running roaming around, but very small amount. And that fruit characteristic that you got, I I got everything from, you know, some typical notes people would say were prosettco. It was like apples and pears, etcetera. This one we had like Hazel nuts. It had apricots. And I was like, this is where we need to be. This is the presecco that needs to be more out in the world. So, particularly from that, DOCG from Valdo Bialdene and Corneliano, I think there's something about people just not it's okay about just leaning into that these are sophisticated regions and pointing them out. I think that just like Portuguese, there is a language barrier, so that's something I realized that language will stop people from purchasing if they don't know how to say it. And so we just need people to identify these as two regions for higher level, quality, and and I think there's there's something to say about the winemakers who are choosing to go the more, I guess, rigorous or quality control route to. So But DOC is just as good. I'm excited to be able to go into DOC for the rest of my journey this week as well. I think people forget about some of there are still biodynamic and organic winemakers that's making prosecco. And then more interestingly, I love being able to talk about colformo to people because everyone in my store comes in and it's like, I want pet net. I want pet net. Right. Right. And I'm like, okay. Well, we need to let you know this. That's a style. That's just, you know, with the yeast, their sashur method. There's other winemakers in other regions that call it something else. So, PetNET is just branding at this point too for a lot of people, a lot of consumers, I'm saying. So they're like, oh, I know that brand the idea, quote unquote, like, pet net. So let me just grab the pet net. But they don't know what co phone bill is, and it's in the same section, you know. So how do I? So I've been I think that's where our difficulty is, is being able to get people to understand these other Italian words that are still under the umbrella of prossecco so they can be able to understand this. So there's some work to be done, and hopefully, I'll be doing it. I love cha cha cha. First of all. Number one, that's what I'll be calling you from now. Okay. No problem. I'm sorry. You are definitely a prosecco Ambassador. I hope so. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm gonna talk to the consortiums about that. Okay. Great. Thank you so much for popping by. And let's go that have that pizza in Namusco. Let's do it, cheers. And some prosseca, if you want. Thank you for joining us on another installment of On The Road Edition, hosted by Stev Kim. Join her again next week for more interesting content in the Italian wine scene, You can also find us at italian wine podcast dot com or wherever you get your pods. You can also check out our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp to watch these interviews and the footage captured of each location.