Ep. 1510 Dorli Muhr | On The Road With Stevie Kim Throwback Instalive

Since twenty seventeen, the Italian One podcast has exploded and expects to hit six million listens by the end of July twenty twenty three. We're celebrating this success by recognizing those who have shared the journey with us and giving them the opportunity to contribute to the on the success of the shows. By buying a paper copy of the Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a donation to help the ongoing running costs, members of the international Italian wine community will be given the chance to nominate future guests and even enter a price draw to have lunch with Stevie Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. To find out more, visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Welcome to another episode of On The Road Edition, hosted by Stevie Kim. Each week, she travels to incredible wine destinations interviewing some of the Italian wine scene's most interesting personalities talking about wines, the foods, as well as the incredible travel destinations. Good morning. So first of all, let me introduce you to my tasting panel. I'm a little lazy today, Dorley. So I don't know if you've, like, followed us in the past. Let me just turn it around. Can you kinda see? This is Lam? Hi. Hi. He thinks he's the boss, but just let me assure you. He's not. Okay. Okay. He's our Vineita International Academy, program coordinator, and he's originally from Chengdu. Okay. But he's been with us for a long time. Believe it or not. He's the longest. Right? Yeah. Because usually people leave me after a couple of years. So he's he's a dinosaur person. I understand. Okay. So and then we have our in house w said diploma educator and our Italian wine ambassador, Rebecca Lawrence. Hi, Rebecca. Definitely, the smart one out of the pack. And she's English, so she sounds smart even if, you know, at times, she's not. It's just English. And then we have Rachel for Memphis, Tennessee. Rachel. And then we have Hi, Rachel. And then up from Siberia. And I am not making this sit up. Like, she's from Memphis, Tennessee, and she's from Siberia. Okay? Then we have tonight's film from Sara. No. He's our WST, coordinator for the School Cheyenne Wine Academy. Then we have Christina. K. She actually has an incredible palace. She used to work with Luca Galini, who's a crazy person, but taught her everything she knows about. Tasting. She's our in house technologist. And also, she's a professional football player, like American football. So she's my buddy god. Okay. And then we have Yakopo, and he's our Italian wine ambassador, but also my classmate for w set to plump. And then she's not here today. She's also my classmate. She's a bit under the weather. So there we go. How are you? Fantastic. I'm fine. Thank you. Do you feel like you're kind of not zoomed out, but clubhouse. Uh-huh. Are you feeling that yet? I decided to be very selective because it's really addictive, but I must say I love it because I have learned so much in the last four weeks because it's, on club house, it's you get so much information on on subjects, which usually are not treated in your bubble. You know? It's, so I usually, I go to talks that are outside the mind, and I really learn a lot. I'm very, very grateful to that. But you must be very selective because otherwise you'll stay in there for twenty four hours. There is always, I mean, it's around the world. It's like, hey, Tushar. Tushar is joining us from Dubai. You know Tushar. Right? Tushar Bora? Maybe. Yeah. You know, so clubhouse, I think we need to I'm going to actually organize a room. Mhmm. Hey, Renee. Renee's from clubhouse, hello. Okay. Hi. Yeah. No. From from Canada. Yes. Yeah. But today, we will be talking about, your wines because you are a, first, tell us a little bit about yourself, your dual, your doctor Jacqueline, mister Hyde, the PR side and the winemaker side. Yeah. Well, it's not, contradictive. So that's that's the good thing about it. I, I founded a PR agency, which is called one as partners in nineteen ninety one. So my state of the art investment to found the agency was, a fax machine. What do you mean? You just had a fax machine? No. I I bought a fax machine. This was the the investment and it was state of the art in terms of communication. Nice. There was no internet. There was no mobile phone. There was no email. So it's like ninety one? Nineteen ninety one. Yes. There was no email. There was email ninety one. No. It was maybe not in Austria, but in the rest of the world. No. It's By the way, you know, when we start, like, you know, when we start with a special guest, like, we have, like, special accessory. Like with Lara Katena, we wore all the barrettes and and with, Andrea last week, I found an old vine. For Austria, we can't find anything. So here we go. Alright. So let's go back to your fax machine in ninety one. So that was ninety one. And since then, we have evolved a little bit. And and now we are a quite digital company, of course. And on the other side, I founded a a winery, a vineyards project in two thousand two. And, on a hillside, which was quite unknown or forgotten, which is called Switzerlandburg. That's what you have on the label in front of you. And it's a a hillside in the very east of Austria. The region is called which is a Roman a Roman word. It has really been founded, Hey, Italians, by the by the Romans in the year eight. And in the very east of that region, there is this spitzenburg hillside, which is not very high. It's about three hundred meters high, but as all the the rest of the region is very flat down to the Hungarian plane. It makes a difference. And it's a lime stone soil, very poor limestone soil, and extremely windy because this Schwitzenburg is the beginning of the carpathians, of the carpathian mountains. And then there is a corridor of about fifty kilometers before the beginning of the Alps. And then Dora, can you just, tell us, to the rest of us where this area is. It's in in the eastern part of Austria. Just give us kind of a If you if you are if you start Indiana and you go on the Daniel East for about fifty kilometers, then you arrive to the place where I make my wines. And if you continue for another ten kilometers, then you arrive either in Slovakia or in Hungarian. Yeah. I I did that by mistake once, actually. It's really the the last corner of Austria. And this is why so the mountain where I grow wines is part of the capations, which is the big mountain chain that goes down all the way to, Romania. It's the eastern, the main eastern European mountain chain. So it's not the Alps, but the Cubetians. And this, a hillside called Schpitzerberg used to be quite famous, like, a eighty one hundred years ago. It was supposed to be the best red wine place of Oscar but probably there was not so much competition at the time. And then it has been kind of forgotten. There was a cooperative founded, and it failed, and it went bankrupt. And when I came there in two thousand two, and I started to work there because my grandmother had a tiny vineyard of zero point seventeen hectares there. So this is your family. Exactly. It was it was like like a small garden place where we had some vineyards, but, I had a very emotional, a very strong emotional relation shipped to that place. And so I thought maybe I should try to make something out of it. And the longer I saw it and, the more I work on it, I realized that this is a fantastic terroir. And, to me, of course, it is outstanding, and I think it is one of the leading it has loo leading potential in the old, let's say, central European zone it it is very, very specific, very individual, very, it's, yeah, special personality. I'm very proud. I work now on the Schwitzerburg for nearly twenty years. And then when was your first vintage? When when was your first two thousand two. I made five I made five hundred bottles then. You have, like, eight wines now. Right? Yeah. I think it's about eight wines. Yeah. And now what is the total volume of production? You're still making tiny Yes. I make I work on eleven hectares, and I've produced from eleven hectares. I produced forty thousand bottles. So it's very, very tiny production because it's so dry, so windy, so exposed. But very intense wines. I hope that you can, prove that when you can have them in your glass. Oh my goodness. It's listen, it's twelve forty three. So we have to start tasting no wines. Yes, please. So we'll be tasting two wines today. Can you just pronounce this? I don't put your It's a Samped on Saida. You Which means Samped on Saida? Exactly. Which means in English, it means velvet and silk. Oh, okay. You see? And then and then we have your Reid Schpitzerberg. Okay. Ritz Schpitzerberg. So Ritz, if you if you see on an Austrian wine label, then the word Ritz, It means that it's a single vineyard wine. Read is the name of vineyard. That's good for my exam. Yes. Okay. So we will be tasting the first wine first. Yes. The first one. Yes. That's a good idea. It's, something cider is a pure black frankish. The grape in both wines is pure black frankish, and you have in front of you the same vintage, the same grape, from the same hillside and the same winemaking. The only difference between these two wines is the age of the vines. How does the vines? In the first wine, the sumpten sider I use all the vineyards that have an age between ten and thirty years. Okay. And, what you what you can understand, and this is why I use the name sump insider is that the younger vines give a more velvety rounder, like baby face taste and the older vines, which with thirty years, they already come in into a adult age. On the Schwitzerberg, they make a very silky, elegant fine taste. So it's, it's really about texture on your pallet. And in the, you will see later on in the reach, Pittsburgh, which is very old, fine. They are between forty five and seventy years old. This is pure silk. And silk, and silk means it's it's very dense, but very light. Shirley, Serenae is asking, love the labels are these wines exported to Ontario or anywhere in Canada? Not yet. Okay. So, yeah, you should. Rene, you should DM, Darlie. Also, it's not actually imported, not even to Italy at the moment. So if anyone is interested from from Italy, you should also ping dearly for sure. So, you know, your wine is basically we can say it's organic. Right? You're certified organic, since two thousand eighteen. You have the open bags food treading, old cast oak, and no filtration. Right? That's it. Other than this, what can you tell us about the first line? Okay. Probably what is important is to understand the grape. Blough Frankish is a central European grape that has a quite resistant skin. So this is very good because we have, sometimes we have rains in autumn and, and we have very big heat in summer. So Latin English is quite resistant. And it has a very intense aroma. If you don't know the grape, you could maybe imagine a mix between Nebula and Sierra, a mix of those three, which are all of the same family. And and then you understand a little bit. You have the freshness and the the delicate fruit maybe of Pino, you have the the tenants and the acidity of Nebula. And then you have sometimes the the the the full bodied mass of Sierra. So it's it's it's all the three in there. Are you enjoying this podcast? There is so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps or books on Italian wine. Including Italian wine unplugged, and much, much more. Just visit our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now, back to the show. Yeah. I love I love that, you know, and, Nipiello. Mhmm. Like, for me, less sure, but, I mean, the pepperiness, yes. What what do you guys think? Do you guys have any questions for, Darlene at this point? I know somebody had a question. Hi, Dyson. I just wanna ask, which are the major challenges to produce, sell and promote, a Bell Frankish or general premium red wines in, Austria. Blofrank is just the six percent of the general vineyards and Yes. You're in the region where where her whites are still the ninety percent. So producing premium rights is very challenging. So how do you face this? Yeah. Well, it is thank thank you for the question. It is definitely challenging, but we have also some help, for example, by global warming. So our our region really at the the region of Kanonto, really, at the moment, is a a winner of the global warming. Because we get our harvest, for example, for Bluff Rankish nowadays, it's like four to five weeks earlier than twenty years ago. So that means we are really having beautiful ripe intense red wines every year and not just in exceptional years. So with our evolvement, we see that also the market evolves. The whole region gets more awareness for top red wines. And then, of course, this is inside Austria, but then also working outside Austria is really challenging because we have both. Austria does not have such a high perception of awareness for red wines. And then Blau Frankish is is a very hip grade now between so many years, but not so much between, consumers. So there is a lot of a lot of communication to be done. But, really, it is a wine type that corresponds so much to what people nowadays like in the wine world. So it's not the heavy, bold wines, but it has a lot of freshness. It's very food friendly. And it is very specific, very individual. So it's not one wine more of the same, but it's really very individual. So we have chances and a big potential, but we have to work from top to down as we work a lot with with press, with specialized press, and with sommeliers of, fantastic restaurants because those people look for delicate wines that enhance the food and does not overwhelm the food. So I think this is winded is very much made for that for food. But you said it's good to pair with food. What kind of what kind of food? Like first, like, tell me some foods like Austrian food, but also international cuisine. Yeah. I mean, the important thing is that you have to see what is the age of the of the wine. Blough frankish is a verizon that ages very well, and the older it gets, the better it is in combining this fruit. A young Bluff Frankish, maybe not so much mine because we are very soft in penance, but very often, Bluff Frankish has a lot of pen and plus acidity. So then you need salt and and some fat in the dish. And the older it gets, the more balanced it becomes. So you can serve nearly everything with it. I mean, I know, Aldosom in New York served San Shaq with my spitza bag and it works very well. So with fish with fish as well. But, of course, if it is a young, like, these two, a young powerful red wine, I would prefer some long time cooked beef cheeks or something like that, but where you really have some consistency that works with it. You know, the purpose of doing these tasting tasting panel is really for, w set, studies. So, you know, you know, at the end of the w said there is, like, recommended aging time. They talk about solid quality and then that should you drink now? Should you hold it? Or Yes. What is the ideal aging for these ones? Yeah. So my experience is that in a cooler year, let's say, like, sixteen or fourteen or ten, you can start drinking the wines after three to four years. But in a big year, like the one you have in front of you, the seventeenth, I would keep it if it's for really getting a nice balance, I would keep it for eight to ten years Wow. Before serving. Yeah. Because if you if you drink it now We're going to be needing more wine then, darling. Yeah. I'm sorry. No. But this is the the young wines are very impressive with their fruit and their, you know, Yeah. They are they are kind of, yeah, impressive, but they are not yet in their balance, and they don't show so much terroir at the moment. So this is a a a a process that the power of the sun like goes back and fades out and the carua fades in and this next time. And in a cooler, a year, with a little bit more rainfall, the power of the sun is not so much. So this balance they can reach earlier. In a full year, like, seventeen or or fifteen or two thousand nine, ten years is fantastic. So if you if you start after eight years, it's fine. So would you say what what you your signature wine out of these two? Well, the question is, what is your signature wine? Do you reach Pittsburgh? Is, of course, is my top wine. It's made from very old wines, and it is a showcase, in my opinion, what a Bla Frankish from Austria from limestone, because it's clearly marked by limestone soil should be. But it's only a small quantity. I only make, like, two thousand, two thousand. Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. Of course. And the other one, the sumpton cider is my my most important one. It's about half of my production is that. And and I think a signature one should be something that is really available, not as the wine that you have to run, I don't know, two thousand kilometers to get the bottle. So I think that the two wines are quite similar. They have the same signature, I would say. It is just the one is made from old vines and is a little bit more relaxed and has the wisdom of age, and it's a little bit more, yeah, like that. And the sumpton side is a little, yeah, is younger, is a little bit more vibrant, maybe, at the moment, and it's impressing, a lot because of its fruit also in the year. So you're so focused on the storytelling, but you know, just the our audience. First of all, Ayanna Misawa, she's from Grace Wine, from Japan, our friend, and we will actually be chasing her wines, in in a few weeks. I don't know when three weeks. And she says, love Darlene's Shritzerberg. Yes. I I'm Schritzerberg with a little hot. And then also, sommelier, zero point two. I have no idea who this person is. These are great. He loves he I know him. He loves my two thousand eight, Pittsburgh. Very much at the moment. Obviously, a long long time fan. Listen, Darlene, we have few more minutes left. I know if we've spoken about kind of the differences, the OVAen versus lesser on hold. Yeah. What are the other differences, for the second line, compared to the first? No other differences. In the making, no no other differences, and this is to me the exciting situation that you have white different wines in front of you, but the only difference really is the age of the wines of the of the vineyards. And this is why I chose these two wines to you so that you can because this is something you can learn. And if you pay attention very carefully. You will realize that the rich bits of birth from the old vines is the longer one. It looks maybe in the beginning a little What did what did you say? The normal one? The longer. Oh, the longer it has that. Yeah. It's it's it's a it has more complexity is longer, but it's not more powerful. I think power and and alcohol and four formed fruit is something that is, it's very typical for younger vines if you can speak about young vines when they are thirty years old. But for old vines, and this is what I really love is the length And it's a a very, very dense texture, but without being heavy. As I said, it's like silk. Silk is very dense. You can't look through the, There is no yeah. We can't look through doing it, but it's very fine. And still, it is very resistant. And this is to me the ideal personality that I I look for in a great wine that it should not be powerful, but very clear, dense, long, and, elegant. So let me ask you one last question, which is a typical WST diploma question. Do old wines necessarily, produce higher quality wines. What is your opinion on that? No. I would say it's like these people, age. I mean, being old does not necessarily mean that you are I'm not sure I'll get any marks for that. Be like people. It's not that you are, a better person, but usually you have more knowledge than a young person. And if you are smart, you use it in a better way. So old wines can let's say, if old minds are in perfect shape, and this is a question of how they have been treated, they can give very harmonious, elegant, precise, and, high personality wines that a young wine, a young vine can never give. You can this length and structure and complexity is something that you cannot create in the cellar. This is something that is given only by old vines. And it's a a difference. It it's very complicated to taste it because most of people only look at what is the four, the first taste. They're it's very impressive and thing. And the length and the, the, the finesse and complexity in the lengths is something that most people don't look for. And you if you do this for your training, you should really look at that and really find out how do I recognize old fines. And once you get that, you you will ever you will always recognize it because this is it's a big difference. And what the the big question is how can a vine become old? Because in many, many vineyards of the world, usually they are digged out after thirty or thirty five years because the vineyard is not productive anymore. So our target is with every work that we do in the vineyard, and this every decision to make to give them the possibility to become very old. So this is organic with the culture. This is soft pruning. This is very soft treatments. So everything we can do so that they don't get sick that they don't get any harm and that they can become sixty, seventy, eighty, ninety, one hundred years old. And this is the challenge because it's not easy to get old wines. Great. Listen. So, thank you so much. Please look out for Durally. We were going to thoroughly, because one o'clock at the office, it's lunchtime. I have not seen anybody, using this big tuna lot. So I think we're gonna be continuing this tasting panel. We'll put out the notes, for you later. But first of all, I want to tell everybody that you look at for Durally on every Wednesday at eight PM, right, in the clubhouse? Yeah. Except except next week because we do the Asia thing next week. This is very interesting. You will I hope that you can come in. We do about what has changed in the Asian markets. In the last twelve months. But because of the time difference, we have to do it at three o'clock next week. Alright. I do that too. When I do Asia, I do it at, like, you know, like this time, you know, twelve o'clock. Okay. Great. So look out for Darlie Moore. She's very active on, clubhouse has very interesting rooms, dedicated to the wine business. I run a room on Thursdays about wine, winemakers. Tonight, actually, eight PM. I'll have Graft nurse, Emtek, and Aliceiring, you know. That'll be interesting. But let's go. Yeah. And then, I do one market series as well during the week. Mostly when because that's it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Let's say goodbye to Dorley. Have a good have a good lunch. Yeah. I think we're going to thoroughly be enjoying this. Okay? Thank you very much. And it's been Please please give me feedback after lunch. Yes. What has how how you think the wines behave with whatever you eat. I hope you have nice, dishes. I just I just have, like, casino. So I don't know. Okay. Yes. We will we're going to do the proper tasting notes in anything. Okay? Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye, Hotel. Thank you for joining us on another installment of On The Road Edition, posted by Stevie Kim. Join her again next week for more interesting content in the Italian wine scene. You can also find us at Italian wine podcast dot com or wherever you get your pods. You can also check out our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp, to watch these interviews and the footage captured of each location.