Ep 2319 Discovering Bordeaux's Left Bank with Bernard Burtschy Part 4 | On the Road with Stevie Kim

So my last question for you is the age ability of sotar. How long can it age? Because I was so shocked to taste the wine again, hundred year old sotar. Last night. Yeah. They sat there and you can keep as long as you want forever. Yeah. Forever because the sugar is the best way for the conservation. Right. Yeah. And fifty years old. No problem. Welcome to another episode of On The Road Edition, hosted by Stevie Kim, each week, TV travels to incredible wine destinations, interviewing some of the Italian wine scene's most interesting personalities, talking about wines, the foods, as well as the incredible travel destinations. Welcome to our Bordeaux special with the Thayan wine podcast on the road series with our dear, wine friend, and wine Consillere Bernard with us throughout the entire journey. And of course, we have spoken about, you know, the left bank, but of all the dry reds mostly, but we cannot go home without learning more about the sweet wines. Once very popular. It's a little bit less popular, also part of Soutin and Balzac. We were privileged. Thank you for organizing to visit Chateau I Kim, and I was so excited because the new boy running the place is Italiano Lorenzo Paschini, and we did a small interview with him as well. So check that out if you get a chance. First of all, Chateau de Cam, what can you say about Chateau de Cam? Chateau de Cam, it's a fascinating place because it was great but a woman. Josephine. Yes. I need to read the book. Yes. Lorenzo gave me the book about Chaturi Cam from Josephine Cam. Yes. And she created the concept of grid wide. When, how to manage to create, to find the market. It was two or three centuries ago. And she was and after she was the revolution, she survived. I were all dead around her. And she created what is today the concept of grid wine? And what is ekem is a special place because it's on the hill, anti a source, but I have a east and the north. And, of course, the climate is very challenging in Bordeaux, you have seen, that you have rain, you have sun and sun. And the vintages are not the same. When the vintage is very warm, but the south face is too much, but the cold west face is interesting. But if the vintage is very rainy, they use only the south face. And at least we have only one third you make. And they blend the different parts that is since that was Josefin invented the blending how to blend the different places, the different grapes, and so on. Yeah. And it is made with special grapes where attack binds, the nobler. And Potritis. Yes. It's botrytisis. And she created how to select to pick not everything in one time because before everything was, but to come to take only the berries, the perfect berries, and to come once two, three, four, five, ten times. So multiple passes. Yes. To only take berries by berries is completely crazy. Right. Okay. Yeah. It's completely An obsessive. Yes. In success. And then for example, eighty eight, it was during two months. Oh, my goodness. Yes. And you have two kinds of indiges. If it is made like in two thousand three, in two weeks, we have not the same complexity, if the pick is is picked during two months. I remember Lorenzo is saying that one vintage in particular, they harvest it until December. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it's crazy. Yes. Yes, because they need to wait. And if it is to warm, you have no botatized. You have only botatized if you have in inoculation by the rain usually. And after that, you have to wait that it's developed and to pick berries by And that is Josephine. She created the sweet wine. They're always a great sweet sweet wine with a lot of complexity that is unit towards the book. Yeah. I'm I'm looking forward to it actually. That is he came is probably the perfect place because it's a hill and you have the south, the east, and the west. And they have first growth, and they're around E cape. One in the south, another one in the west, another one in this. And when I and understand he came, I can say what are the first rows. They are able to be a great way. Right. Okay. No. So, the what do you think about the vintage presentation? Hello. Two thousand twenty two is a challenging vintage for sweet wine. Yeah. Because Lorenzo had said one point, like, they thought he wasn't going to produce anyone in two thousand twenty two. Yes. Because he was so harsh. Yes. And it was too warm. And at beginning, the berries dries sprout, but that is okay. You have a lot of concentration of sugar, but you have not the complexity. You need to have the potatized. And to have the potatized, you need to have inoculation before if you are no rain, that doesn't work. But that is a place where usually that works at least eight times to ten, nine times, but it doesn't exist seventy to seventy four and so on. So it's a server vintage. It can't doesn't exist because I'm not able to make a great sweet wine. Yeah. So they don't produce every vintages. Yes. Only if the conditions are met. Yes. What was the last vintage that they didn't produce? I believe it was seventy. Twelve. No. No. Seventy ninety ninety two perhaps. I have to check. I have a Yeah. No. Okay. So then we also tasted actually. Yes. And it was crazy. The level of sugar there. Yeah. Right? Because in September, you have Hundred and ninety grams, I believe. More, much more, one hundred and eighty. Yeah. Yeah. But you have three types of soil. Okay. Three terro is a sandy soil. Okay. Sandy soil. Okay. Sandy soil. Yes. And sandy soil usually is lighter. You have less acid in the wine. But when you have potatized grapes, you have zesty with the potatized, and it seems always both both powerful. Because you have less acidity. In a other hand, you have in barsack. That is limestone. Limestone, you have always more freshness. Okay. Okay. That is Bar Marisco. For example. Okay. Nice. Okay. Then you have more freshness. Okay? And with the same level of sugar, it seems lighter because you have more acidity. And you have clay, like in so term, you have always more power. And it came as all the soils. Right. All different types. Yes. The different. So that's how they blend. Yes. And they blend the different types. And you have two grapes One is semillon. Semillon, usually most of the hotel are made with eighteen ninety. Mostly semillon. A hundred percent semillon. And then a Sabignon. And and the other, you have sovignon, which is well known everywhere as a whole, and well known as always more acidity, more freshness, less complexity, but it brings the acidity. And, usually, we came. We have twenty percent But I saw that was doing hundred percent. Yes. And you have more power. Yeah. And more sugar. So let me ask you this. Sweet wines are less popular now. I mean, it's so obvious. I love to turn. However, sweet wines are becoming less popular. So I see a lot of these producers going into dry wine business. Mhmm. What are your thoughts about that? The terra of sotern are agreed to make dry white wine clearly. And it was made before. Right. Okay. But as they were, that is a cycle. You have cycles, people say, love, sweet wine. For example, after the glass war, all the peoples I had no sugar, like, during twenty years, the sugar was very popular. Okay. And in France, they made a lot of sweet wine, not only in September, everywhere. Right. Okay. Today is the people want to have more freshness, bubbles, and so on, perhaps probably with a global warming. But in the histories, that is a cycle. Okay. Now we are in a cycle. I say love less sugar for the health, for different reasons, but it's actually coming back if it's it's clear. So just quickly, in terms of buying strategy once again. So just to be clear in terms of prices of Sothan and barsack, barsack is less now. Right? Yes. What is the difference? It's more. But barsack limestone always more freshness. Okay. So turn clay, more power. Mhmm. Okay. If you want to have more freshness by barsack. And in a warm Vintage, like as two twenty two, is because it's always freshness. In the sotern, you have a lot of power. If you want to have a powerful and sugary wine, okay, no problem. Bye sotern. But if you have more freshness in war vintage by barsack. But is it fair to say to generalize by saying that barsack is more value for money than? No. Because the the grid barsack are the same, and there are a lot of people in the world. They love barsack. Yeah. Yeah. And whole foods of a first grow of sootearne. In barsack, you have a grid wine that is clean ass. It was fifty years ago, three months was hopefully at the same level as you can. I see. No. And when you taste twenty one, twenty eight, twenty nine, perhaps three months is greater. Right. It depends on the period and so on. Right. No. And, now, he came his back clearly. Okay? Then New ownership also. Yes. And the plan of the peoples are behind its own. But not trimas. It's back. Okay. They make a great wine. So to summarize, the vintage two thousand twenty two of Sothan and Barca. Was it up to your expectation after the entrepreneur? Yes. It's like as a red wine. They need more time perhaps because it's difficult always to taste it to compare sweet wine because the with the level of sugar. It's easier in barsat always and to see exactly and the problems they need to make chose because before the democratized, it was a period of the bearings dried out and with a lot of concentration, but less complexity. And usually you had to keep only the last part with both the ties. But the term of Basaks, they don't sell it so easy Mhmm. And they kept harassing. And you have perhaps a bit too much for aesthetic sugar less complexity. And for example, twenty twenty one, but it was a very small production. If you have more freshness, more complexity, completely different. In twenty twenty two, like a the red wine buys the second label. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Because it's the second label. It's interesting. Yes. Exactly. I think because you have the set usually, it's the second label whereas you have less power. But you have so much power. It's a great labor, the second labor. And we tasted very nice second labor this morning. Okay. And it's easier to drink because, when you have, it's a lighter sweet wine, to begin, amir. It's perfect. So my last question for you is the age ability of so far. How long can it age? Because I was so shocked to taste the wine again, thanks to Olivia hundred year old Soter last night. Yeah. They Sotter, you can keep as long as you want forever. Yeah. Forever because the sugar is the best way for the conservation. Right. Yeah. And the pressure is thirty years old, fifty years old. No problem. Yeah. Even longer. Bye for your for your children. And the next generation. Yeah. Because even longer than the reds. Yeah. Right? Much longer. Because Olivia was saying that for the Margo, Chatea Margo of nineteen twenty four, had he waited another ten years? Maybe it would not have been good. No. No. Because This was the window, so he wanted to open his last box. It's a window. It's over fifty years. Yeah. Well, you have you have time. Okay. In twenty years, it's roughly the same. Yeah. No. So would you like to just to close our series, our Bordeaux special, getting to a Bordeaux with Bernard Burshey? Would you like to tell her audience anything special about this place. And just on a personal note, I would like to thank, of course, the Gankhou classier eighteen fifty five for having organized our journey here in Bordeaux. But what would you like to say to our audience? I am fascinated But the people that created, they created sweet wine because sweet wine is a place. You have more water, and that is a big problem to make red wine. And to transform this problem, to ability to make great white wine with sugar and with butter ties. And potatized is a mistake. And it's the same in Pollak. You have usually. Kanic wine everywhere in the world, The talents, you can't drink it because it's too much. But in Pollyak, they are so elegant, so fresh that it's no problem, and to discover that, and to find that is the place because before it was nothing. You say it was created in the seventeenth, sixteenth century. And it's fascinating like as a marble for Micah lounge to find the place and to say, okay. So that's wonderful to make. I agree to the attitude. And I am fascinated that they are able to find what is the best for each place, and so different white with the same grape. Yeah. With the same cabs, when San junior, they are not the same wine as in Santa's death, as in Pollak, and inside Pollak, you can have the power the elegant, the complexity, okay, and it's always the same type, the same berries, and that is fascinating to find the place and the way to make a red wine. But AM fascinated in Barolo too for the same reasons. Right. Okay. And when you are in the different place of Barolo, that is the same grape, and the wine are so different. And that was made, it was one century, two centuries, three centuries, four centuries, probably since a long time. Mhmm. And that is the human ability to create that. That is the genius. And with that, I think we can close Thank you for joining us on our journey to Bordeaux with Bernard Burshey. And now finally Yeah. Thank you so much for everything, and hope you can join us on our next journey on Italian wine podcast. Thank you for joining us on another episode of On The Road Edition, hosted by Stev Kim. Join her again next week for more interesting content on the Italian wine scene. You can also find us at Italian wine podcast dot com or wherever you get your pods. You can check out our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp to watch these interviews and the footage captured at each location. Changing.