Ep. 585 Denise Marrone| Monty Waldin

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Montewood. My guest today is Denise Maroney. From Agricola Maroney in the Piamonte region in North of Italy. Welcome. Hi, guys. Okay. Just give us a little bit whereabouts in, Piamonte, are you? We are in La Mora. So five minutes far from Barolo. You're really in the heart of the Barolo production area in the center of the valley. So it's a family run estate, and you are which generation? Yeah. It's already the fourth. So it's all my life and talking about me and my two sisters. We are the free of us now. Of course, mommy and daddy are still with us, and they probably will be retired before them. But, it's a family affair, and we like to follow it. There's already the fifth generation. There's a lot of sons and daughters. So why not? Hopefully. So at this particular moment in time, what successes are you having in the market? What are the wines that are popular now? Irrespective of COVID? Exactly. Let's talk about two thousand and twenty and twenty one because we're already made. And, there's some changes. There's some new projects and perspectives. For example, we bottle the just on Friday, our Rosay wine, a combination of Nebula grapes, beautiful wine. Even if Pemonte is not known for the Rosay, but trust me, It's the pizza wine of Kaye, but it makes a fourteen and a half of alcohol. So it's a really good pizza wine and, very fresh coming out from the fridge at the end of the pizza you are drunk. What was this what's it made from? Sorry. I didn't get that. Barbera Nebiola. The name of the Rosay is Dolcevita, of course. And what about, what about Arnese? Is that still popular? Because that was quite trendy for a while. Does that got off the ball? No. No. No. You're right. It's, I think, the most famous of the whites of our region. And the way very well known, for example, is the white we sell the best in Germany, together with the favoritas. So it's another white grape grown up over here, and it is the same DNA like the Vermentino of toscana of Sardania. But the more and more popular because Arnese has this bitter aftertaste that not everybody likes. So if you don't expect it, maybe it's a little bit strange, but the favor it is very fruity, very pleasant. It goes in the direction of the white flowers. Is this kind of a wine you drink on the terrace with the friends? And and you enjoy it. What about the today, fier? What's that night from? Prefia is the Arnaise. It's our best Arnaise, the selection, and in our dialect means free daughters. So it's our dedicated wine. And a good food match for that? Oh, everything that is not too heavy. So start with the anti pasti based on eggs based on vegetables and the frittata, something like that, teal, a good fish, teal, a good pasta? White meat. Why not because it has a very good structure is the eldest vineyards of Arnaise we have. So it can go it can pair with many dishes. In terms of climate change for the white wines, is, is it easier for whites or is it easier for reds coping with slightly warmer temperatures It's a long subject because this climate changing. Okay. We can see it. We can experience it. But till today, we like it because it made us work in a better way, both in a white or in a red, and grape. It terrains less, but we force the the plants to go deeper with the roots to fish more water, to fish more freshness directly in the soil, and leaving more or less leaves, the the leaf wall longer or shorter depending on the vintage. So we are working in respect of the plant more and more to let it feel better, to let it live better. So, whites, of course, needs a little bit more of cure because if you lose the freshness in the grapes, you have a less acidity. So it's more difficult to produce wines, long lasting. In the reds, you risk less, because we didn't always operate and you work better. The carol parents on, you have less diseases, but the focus is on the plans, mainly. Is is Viticulture? Is it is it a lot more work or is it just a different kind of work now with, climate change? No. It's more. You need to work more. We have a team of guys that work with us since ever since more than ten years. And so they know very well all our plans in the position and the situation of the different parts of the vineyard. And so they know what to do, but they are up there every single day. Now there's also the task of the European community to force us to use to have more grass. So again, to follow better the health of the plants. And so you need to go every day because we don't use any chemicals. We don't use any pesticides, whatever. So every single day is a new day in the vineyards. Just tell us a little bit about this ruling from the European Union about, about grassing. Yes, sir. And we we like to do it because it follows what we like. And so it's not, you know, if you want to certify biological or to put something written on the label, maybe you agree with the eighty percent of the lows, and you need to follow the rest. We are certifying with an another one with the ACQ. And this one, we agree ninety nine percent of what it is, Braden, because it starts from the beginning. It starts in the vineyards, and then it goes to the seller, and then it goes to the bottles. So need something that we do seas Heather. And it's just the following breed and stuff, but they are very, very normal for us. So that's why I tell you I'm not that friend with what it is breed. And I like I much you prefer, what it is logical. Okay. It's a good. That's a good way of putting it. What about, we didn't talk about the Garvey. You make a garvey that the Garavi, DOCG, how does the Garvey variety react to, more heat or more sunlight or stronger sunlight? It's, first of all, it has a funny history, a funny story, this gavi because it is a wedding joint venture because, my sister got married with the the guy, the analog that produces the court as a great And so it's, again, everything in the family, even if there's a hundred kilometers of distance. And so, I can tell you the reaction of the Cortesa that has this thinner skin, it's a little bit more difficult to follow. So much more you need to be careful of the agricultural activities, grass and blah, blah, blah, blah, because Cortez is more delicate. Favorita and Arnese and Chardonnay, of course, has a deeper skin. So even if you are not exacting the best of the expositions, you can do easily. In this case, for us, above Gavy and Gavidi Gavy, we need to work more what you were asking me. Okay. Tell me about the, Dolchette have you made to make any changes on that regarding climate change to not get too much color, for example, in the wine? To have less color because, concentrating more in the skins, you risk to have too much color. And now the the idea, the fashion is to have this salmon color, this very light color, Rosie. And so we need to have less contact. Normally, we leave it sixteen, eighteen hours in contact with this and then we needed to separate them. Should we talk about, your red wines? Let's start with the, carlo. And carlo, because carlo was the name of my grandfather, and Cassina Karlotte is the one that is, on the labels, and it is our bigger farmhouse close to Alba where my family comes from. And so it takes the name from Carl who lived there on the lifelong. And the car lot together with the Dolce. So car lot, we have a two wines with the the same name. Are the more everyday wines that we have, what he was used to drink at home, lunchtime, a glass together with the pasta dish. So that's why we decided to dedicate both Barvera and Elchetto to him. And, La Pantailera, which is the, do you see, super Yeah. La Pantailera, you know, what it is, it's a game. It's a that normally was played on the pizza, on top of our heels, and it is a very old style, old game that my grandfather was used to play when he was younger than just to follow as a spectator when he was elderly. And it consists is like a tennis, but played without Iraq only with the hand wrapped in a piece of a ladder and with a small ladder ball. And going from one side to the other to a in a very long field, teams of four persons. So, la and this, the the the correct dialectal name is Baloum, that means Ball in Italian. And the La Panta is a variation of this game played where the the field was too short to make it in a regular way. And so the first, the jumper was done on the wall of the church. And on the wall of the church, there was attached to a piece of wood. This was La Pantalea. So sometimes, if you stroll around in our old villages, you can still see something strange on the wall of the church. This is La Pantalea. And so, again, the the top line of Agrestis La Pantalea. They are all names and whines dedicated to the memory of migrant father because he deserves it because he was the first one really following the path of the elegance and the quality on our wines, not just the quantity, but quality. Listen, if the, if the wine career doesn't work out, you'd be a brilliant sports commentator. Okay. Let's let's talk about, the big hitters, the Babaresco and, Barro. Do you wanna start with, Babaresco? Barbara, it's a new entry because it's just more than ten years that we make it. But it's not all the life because it was a a beautiful field facing Casina Karlotto. So less than ten kilometers far from, our family farm house. And there was an old guy who didn't have the family following, so he decided to sell this piece of land, under the village of Taison, a beautiful exposition, a small one, but the plants that was more than fifty years old. And so we started making Babaresco, but we started with the head of Barolla producers saw a full body, saw big shoulders, long gauging potential, and saw the first years of the production. We didn't like the result, and we decided not to sell it. We used it to make the Sancala, which is one of our sense. So it's only about six or seven, eight years maximum that we are selling Barbaresco with the label Bararesco. And now we are happy because it has the same elegance, the same perfumes, the same structure of a barrel, but a lighter drinkable. So a glass that you can really enjoy not having the structure of a barrel. So they can have the two different potentials on the same level of quality. Okay. Let's talk about the, Barolo Bousia. Hey. Barolo Bousia is the top of the top for us because we make only boy, the thousand bottles a year. And, it's the only pure MGA that we model because, we have a small field, not far from the symmetry of barolo, so in a beautiful exposition. And, we decided all in the last years to model a part of the MGA by itself because for us the Barolo, the traditional familiar Barolo, is the PMA, and it is a combination of two territories, of two MJ's, of Chokini, on the village of La Mara, and this part of the Busia. But it was the old style of the baroque has always been a blend. Then with this changing on the MGAs, we decided to make it by itself, and we like it a lot because it has so much personality and it flex so much the soil where it is planted. So closing your eyes, you can really feel that you are in Busia. And so for the barolo lovers, this is really the barolo I can suggest because the other the PMA that instead means more than good in our dialect. So, again, connected to something that my grandfather said. And this is the one that we suggested to start with because it's more pleasant, the more drinkable, it focus everything on the drinkability. And so then a second step, the busier can come. Interesting. It, like, you, how the way that you, the way that you describe them. Are there any particular dishes that you like with those, you have, like, a particular dish for each particular barolo or you're not fussy? No. Always, we say. Barolo, the the best pairing is with good friends. And then, you the best you have in the dishes, the more it pairs with the wine, because a very good or some meat with a good sauce. So you have the top of the you have these tenants and the acidity that cleans up your mouth so you can follow eating and drinking and the food is good and the wine is good. So it's really, you know, the best welcoming is to open a bottle and to put something on table. So the more you grow in the quality of the wine, the more you have to bring the quality of the food in the in the length of the of the eating of the meal because you need hours to arrive at the end. Okay. Let's talk about dolceto is every day. So dolceto is what the PMante is known for in a regular meal because it is pleasant, fruity. You can find that is a cherries and the nice color in the glass, and it is not too heavy so you can drink a glass for lunchtime and going working in the afternoon. So he's not talking about the Christmas Barolo. And is there a big difference between, I think, do you make two dorgette or no? Did you do the car lot? Yeah. We make a chudolcetti, but we'd like to end up with only one because, the Dolceto carlotta, that is the selection. We age it three months in Oak And, it's not the personality. It's not the style of the dulce to but talking about the dulce to dalba, not talking about the dulce on. So talking about our light style of dulce to a fresh one, a wine that can also put a half an hour in the fridge during the summertime. So avoiding, okay, it's our future project. What would you have to change Vitter culturally to make that real? The younger vineyards are the best ones. But, even if you have, also the old ones to put together, so to make a mix of the ages, at the end, it works because, you know, the chat is very delicate also as kind of a through it. So you need to harvest it better two days in advance than two days later because you risk to ruin the skin and then during the fermentation to make up a marmalade of everything together. So, also, the eldest of plants can give you the right quality to do that. Does Dolceto like a particular soil in your in your vineyards? See, our vineyards, they are on top of the hill where it is more fresh air. It's more windy. And, where it is a little bit more shadowy because it is at the border of an all the wild. And, underground, the soil is more sandy. So it has more or less the same behavior of the Arnese that it is plant they're really close by. Okay. Let's talk about the language. Do you have a passione? And the sun carlo that we were that we were talking before. The blends are now today in two thousand and twenty one a difficult subject because mainly abroad there's more a search for hundred percent something because Barberi is well known because Nebula is well known. The quality of the different graves are very well known. And so the blends we like as produced sir, because we can put in what we prefer. We can reason. We can try to change a little bit the blends, changing the different tanks where we fish the wines. So it's, the the expression of our will of our winemaking. Then, for the other, the opposite on the other side, it's much more balanced wise because you can really try to find the the point as so we like. We like to present them, but we know that it is much easier to sell them in our seller shop because we can explain the way I'm doing now and not just reading them on a wine list somewhere because Languer also says everything and nothing. That's interesting. I mean, that's very interesting how how people have preconceptions about, in certain regions in Bordeaux, for example, if it if it's only made with one grape, Maybe apart from Myrlow, people will start screaming and say, hey, that's completely wrong. Exactly. Exactly. It's exactly the opposite. And you never go to France to find one single grape. You say, why? Unless, let's just, let's say, like, obviously, in burgundy when it's kind of, it's a well known, but, I would have thought these blends would have been very versatile. You know, you with Nebiola Balbera Dolceto giving different aspects to the wine. And, but I can understand it on the other side, maybe it's just confusing for people. But, yes, I was talking with someone in the US only fifteen days ago and, about, again, the subject of the MGAs and the Barola single vineyard and so on and so on. So now PMonta reminds these small parcels and these very different soil composition in two kilometers. So probably this is the reason why also the other grapes, the nebula de Barbier are following in because it's something that confuses a lot. I needed a lot of time to explain what was written on the label because Langueros is a blend, but Langue favorita is pure hundred percent favorita, and the PMA and see a PMA is a fantasy name. Bousier is the name of an MGA. It's not that easy to understand. For us, it's normal because we know it's in server. But now I can understand how difficult it is, ten thousand kilometers away. Okay. Final wine or final question, Nebula de Agrestis, which is a hundred percent Nebula. Is that your best value wine? Yes. Because a little bit, we were lacking about the weather about the exposition of this vineyard because it is in a beautiful, place, again, in Madona Dicomo. So in our family farmhouse, it's all the vines, so they give us the right quality. And so in my opinion because then, cases are always subjective. I really think it's one of the best value for money that we have now on our shelves. And so, yes, I agree. I'm happy. Yeah. I mean, I I've I've tried it. I think it, I mean, for what it costs and the quality you get, it really over delivers, and it just shows how strange people are with looking at Naples. If you put that as a barolo people, a lot no. A lot of people would never know, you know, Yes. I know. I know what you mean. But also because the kind of activities done on this nebulae is exactly the same as for a barolo, and it's just the difference of soils that makes a difference of the wine because for the rest of the aging is only big oak and the talking a rock, so the same that we use for the barrel. And the twenty days, of fermentation in contact with the skins, like the barrel. So it's just a matter of fifteen kilometers of distance. That's it. Perfect. Okay. Well, that was a little whirlwind, explanation of the wines, that you and your, family make, and the way you've described them, you're very, very clear, and your enthusiasm absolutely shines through. Thanks very much Denise, from Agricola Maroney. I was to hear you, and, we wish you and your family every success. Thanks a lot. And we can't wait to see you all here, really. On Monday, next Monday, it seems we can open the doors again. So, cross the fingers. Fingers crossed. Okay. Thanks a lot. Take care and say hi to the family. 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