Ep. 431 Stevie and Scienza call Monty ENGLISH

Okay. Are we ready to call, Monte? Hello? Hi, Steve. Yeah. I can hear him. You sound so enthusiastic. Hi, Monte. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This is an English translation of the interview between Professor Shenza, Monte Walden, and Stevie Kim. This is Margarita, and I'll be playing Stevie Kim. This is Yacopo, and I'll be playing Monte Walden. And hopefully you'll remember me, Rebecca, the BBC voice of Professor Shenza. Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Okay. Everybody. Welcome. Oh my god. He's all lying. He's a lie. Holy crap. What's popping, Monte? Surprise. Hey, Monte. Listen. What have you been up to? Really not a huge amount. Just catching up with lots of work, basically, and doing a lot of work for my websites mainly to do with, Italian wine, of course. Yeah. Of course. Listen. Do you know why we wanted to call Monte today? Because we always say hi to Monty on this podcast, but we never get an answer back. So today, we decided to actually call you in person. How about that? Me? Yeah. Oh my god. You're so English. A little bit of enthusiasm, please. Such a nice surprise. Of course. We actually don't get a lot of phone calls here at the house. Pretty frequently, actually. So when you call this morning, it was a really nice surprise. It's always nice to hear from the professor too. Surprise surprise. Did you know we were down in Montepulciano? Sorry. What now? We were in Montepulciano. Oh, really? Why? Because, the professor wanted to promote his books, San Juviso, and other vine stories. And why Monteepulciano? Why not? Montepulciano is not far from where I live. I'm in Montalcino, which is thirty, forty minutes from Montepulciano by car, even less, or maybe more. Actually, we're already back in verona. Yesterday, we have talk about meeting up at six AM to drive back to verona and at six AM this morning, the professor was already texting me that he was ready to leave. Okay. So that's why we're already back in Verona this morning. Whoa. Okay. That sounds wow. So are you in contact with any of the producers these days? Producers in multiple channel? Yeah. Wait. No. I mean, in general, producers in your area. Yeah. In Montalcino, just the other day, I took some photos of the harvest for a winery here in town, and I'm pretty happy with them. It's not an easy year this twenty twenty. No. What do you mean? The harvest? Yes. What are you talking about? The quality? What is the issue? The ripeness of the grapes was a completely uniform mirror in Montalcino. Sure. But the Montalcino harvest is done at elevation around six hundred meters. Sure. So it's common for grapes grown at that altitude to have a few peculiarities. This year, everybody in late ripening zones had issues. We're always talking about climate change and an anticipated phenomena, but this year we seem to have had the opposite effect from what I'd expect. The vines started their ripening process early then they slowed down all of their vegetative and reproductive activity, and the August drains were dramatic. It rained so much that the plants completely stopped storing sugars, they never got going again. They just stomped on the brakes. Full stop. This was especially true for places such as the higher parts of Montalcino. In the lower parts where there are soils from the plier scene and the pleistocene, the effect wasn't such a problem, but in the higher part, where there are the eocene soils, the ground retained lots of water, and the plants never got back to their seasonal processes. They accumulated water, but didn't produce much sugar. So this year, there were significant issues for San Jurazo. We just have to hope for the best. Well, we'll see. In English, we see the proof is in the pudding. So we'll see how the wines turn out. Definitely. Still, given the conditions this year, it's not looking good. That's all I'm trying to say. This year, the precocious vines did really well, but it was a rough year for the late ripening varieties. You know, the Cabones were a disaster too. They have very low sugars. Meanwhile, Sheraz went amazingly because it ripened sooner. You know, it's been a bizarre year, very curious We could say it goes counter to what we've observed in recent years. What? In the past few years, the maturation process was very fast and early. While this year, it was especially slow and late for the late ripening vines. So would you say that within Italy, there were zones that fear better than the others this season? I would say if we consider the area of Barolo, good. They're picking beautiful grapes. And in terms of Nebula, it could be a great year. Levenito not had a great year. And this goes for the areas of our policello, where Corvina's had a very difficult time ripening. I'd say the problem has been less serious for Clara and prosecco because of the earlier ripening phenomenon, even if the wine tends to be relatively late. But in short, these varieties don't suffer as much. Similarly, in Trentino, it hasn't been a grape vintage. They've had problems with the health of Pino Grigio. And here too, the red grapes like Cabanae and Merlo have not ripened very well. As it rains in late August and interrupted the ripening process. They're very green, herbal, maybe even a little raw, carbonate, merlot. So we'll see, like you say, how they hold up through VINification. In Romania, in Emilia Romagna, including Ultrapo, things went very well, and besides they've had excellent maturation and good production. In Tuscany, you probably know better than I what's going on there. Kianti had low yields, Kianti classical. Because this spring, there were a couple of late freezes. So San Juese ripened well because the plants had very few bunches. And in some environments, the grape production was basically halved. Good for Vermentino. Vermentino had good production and good maturation. Good for Bulgaria. Bulgery didn't really have any problems because it's a precocious zone. But even here, the cabernets didn't ripen as well as they have in the past, and they're not very concentrated. So we'll see how the winemakers deal with the somewhat herbaceous tendencies of this year's avenue. Good again on the Adriatic coast, as this side of the peninsula received less rain, multiple chiano grapes are very nice, white grapes too, the Pasadena turned out beautifully. Pulia had a great year, especially their primitivo, Sisti also had a good year. Even if some years were a bit spotty, overall, they had a good year, this includes Aetna regardless of the altitude. You know, Sicily's climate is certainly favorable, even though the complicated or difficult years come around, and I've gotta say things were very good even in Sardinia. All of the southern regions had better luck than the central and northern regions. The center of the country was up and battered by these waves of precipitation accompanied by less than favorable temperatures. This is why the later vines suffered so much more than the early ripening varieties. The precocious grapes ripened well, and got out of the way before the problem showed up. So let's imagine an Italy divided in half. The south has had a great year, even if we're obviously oversimplifying a bit, and then off did okay, even if it's been a bit more spotty. Things vary, of course, according to the local conditions and the great variety in question. In general, the earlier vines did well, and those that need a bit more time to ripen didn't do so well. So when you say that this see our south seem to fare better than the north in terms of climate and weather this summer. With respect to wine status, can we expect a fresher vintage of southern wines, with higher acidity? Sure. It's possible. This year hasn't been particularly look, there was a short period of hot weather. For around a month, it was quite hot, then everything else went well for the most part. It rained less than the south and the north. It also rained less on the Adriatic coast than the Terrainian coast. So Italy is not only divided between north and south, but between east and west. That is they are two completely different phenomena from a climatic point of view, and therefore, the consequences were also very different from a ripening point of view. And if we start to talk about the verification, sometimes with, difficult vintages, there can be problems with No. No. No. No. This year is not one of highly concentrated sugars. The difficult years are those where there is a lot of sugar and the possibility of reduction. That is during the fermentation, as there are remaining fermentable sugars. This year, the fermentation will be very fast, good color extraction, I'd say, but it should be pretty linear and without complications. And the pH? The plants, a whole other complicated topic. We basically have plants that No. The pH. Oh, the pH. The pH was high, unfortunately. It was high because the rains brought on a sharp increase in potassium. So potassium tends to hang out in the top twenty to thirty centimeters of soil, and this is the part that received all the rainwater after a dry spell. So the plants had the majority of their roots concentrated near the surface, and they used this to their benefit to drink deeply, but this meant drawing up lots of potassium along with the water. Hence, potassium made its way into the grapes and reacted with the tartaric acid. If you checked out any crushing and destemming going on this year, you'd probably see the tartrates accumulating on the walls of the machinery. So in this step of the process, we already start to see serious tartaric acid precipitation, and this naturally leads to a drop in acidity. So on the one hand, we have some must with low acidity. While on the other cases, we observe must with rather high acidity. So in the rainier such as this one, what can Bruno look producer do? For example, who, by law, must stage the wines for three year removed, Yes. Yes. I know. So to make a good wine, not for difficult vintage, while staying within the regulation that are in place, how will the white maker do it? The way I see it, The key was to thin the bunches early on, to remove a lot of the grapes from the plants. After the rainfall, it made sense to reduce the fruit load on the plants, leaving only a few grape bunches so that those remaining could complete their ripening. This thinning was also essential and would leave one or two months for the plant to recover. This was also a high production year, which added another layer of complexity. Then, of course, you always have to take care with your maceration and fermentation. Especially with this batch of grapes, it's important to pay attention to color extraction. This could mean macerating at relatively high temperatures in order to capture anthocyanins and tannins and also to allow for rapid polymerization of the anthocyanins. The name of the game is to extract enough tannins that they stabilize the anthocyanins. Otherwise, a grape like sangiovese will start to develop some orangey tones or start to yellow around the edges as it ages. You have to get your temperature up immediately in order to favor this process of polymerization. Finally, keep an eye on maceration time because with long drawn out macerations, bitter tones can develop in the wine. There's this whole slew of substances, let's label them polyphonetic compounds that are responsible for the bitter taste that shows up in a wine if the grapes are not perfectly ripe. And this bitter taste carries all the way through to the bottle. We see this on occasion with San Gervais and unfavorable vintages. And how do things go for the sparkling wines such as French Accord? Good. Really good. The same goes for Trentino, your chardonnay, your pinot noir, Bumante. But again, all the early ripening grapes did well whilst late ripening grapes suffered. The chardonnay and pinot narrow of Francacorta produced a lot of beautiful grapes this year. These vines were healthy and will produce a beautiful blend. I've gotta say it was a beautiful vintage for the sparkling wines, and I'm not just referring to Francia Corta, but sparkling wines in general, meaning Trento doc, prosecco. Including Lambrusco? Very good. For Amelia Romania in general, it was a good year. Why? Because the soils there are really different. In Amelia, they have these soils that do not retain water. They are well draining. Just think of all the soils toward the apennines that were deposited during the various rivers flooding. For example, Sabara and the lambrosco's of Moderna and regio, where they have these loamy sandy soils that don't stay waterlogged, and the lambrosco vines themselves are peculiar. These vines have been selected and they have evolved in much wetter environments where they were watered more frequently. Therefore, they don't tend to suffer the consequences of a wet growing season. The grapes have these hard skins and they are better adapted than other varieties to humid rainy conditions. Let's make ligurian mark against each other regional, opposite sides of the peninsula. Yes. Well, liguria has already done really well because it was mainly early ripening varieties such as Pigata, which is basically a Vermentino and Roseso. This goes for the whole area of the Chincuero, where there are soils derived from schists. They're fast draining. So even if it rains hard, the soils drain before they interfere with the grapes maturation. In liguria, any problems tend to be associated with the wind which can carry salts and can physically affect the vines. Also drought can be a problem because the soils are so well draining that they don't retain enough moisture for the plants. This year has gone well. The rainfall wasn't out of line, and they didn't experience these Libertio winds that carry lots of salt and damaged plant leaves. So here, they've had some decent harvests that could produce interesting batches of Chakra, for example, or in any case winds with high sugar, high alcohol content. Things look pretty good for the Marquay, too, although Vadicchio had some problems with maturation as its late ripening variety. If the vintage isn't great, this varietal can show a lot of acidity. You'll say, okay, it always has some green notes, but it can lack some elegance if the ripening isn't spot on. On the other hand, it may be that these wines will be suitable for longer aging with their higher acidity. Therefore, they could evolve with these hints of paraffin or oil that are often associated with Vericchio. But not bad overall, the Adriatic was favored over the Iranian Sea, the Adriatic in general, Abrozso, Marque Pollier, where they had much less rainfall, more favorable temperatures, better maturation in general. But, for example, in Polia, that is obviously a really warm region, but this year, all the rainfall, a lot, in this sense, for Salint, it was a wonderful year. It was an excellent year. I can say that Pulea was perhaps the most favored region in this year. So I must say it went well both in the area of Primitivo and the area for Negromaro or over Detroit. These varieties have benefited from this year's weather. Campania. Campania is always a complex region. For one, there are these territories of Alianico as well as basilicata. They are high territories, six hundred to seven hundred meters, but the advantage of the Alianico vine is this great pass sixty to tolerate rain and water. The only thing is that it takes a lot of patience as the bunches take a long time to mature. They're still harvesting Alianico in Campania. And also, it takes time to select the best grapes meaning taking the bunches that are fully mature and not the ones that are still unripe in parts. For the white wines, things went well, both for Fiannon and Valentino in particular, it was an especially great vintage for Valentino this year because it had good production and a beautiful chemical composition. You know there are at least two different types of phalangina. We have one of the campy f de grey, as well as the one from Openia. These two vines are called by the same name, but they produce very different wines with very different qualities. These days, Falangina has become very popular and it is probably the most important vine in Campania at the moment, similar to Greco. Falangina was harvest somewhat early, so it should have some good acidity, and avoid the risks of the vintage. It produces some magnificent bases, very straightforward, very clean. Can you tell us about Umbria? For Lumbria's somewhere in the middle. It has two sides. First, on the Grequettes side, maybe best represented by the town of Orvieto, things have gone fairly well. Overall, because being in the middle, it didn't receive the brunt of the rains coming out of the west, from the French coast and the Bay of biscay. I chalk this up as positive. Ombria's continental climate allows a certain amount of protection from the waves of harsh weather moving out of the west, but above all, early ripening grape varieties are often selected in this region, allowing them to escape most damage due to the poor weather late in the season. So good. In Umbria, white grape varieties are prevalent. Of course, the region produces red wines as well, but the heart of the production is made up of Trebiano's and Greco's. Let's just say they didn't have any major issues. And what about Auto Adige and Trentino? Really good in Arto Adige. In fact, they're still harvesting the white wine grapes in the Escaro valleys such as Sylvana, can, or even riesling, I'd say they have very loose soils, metamorphic shifts, well draining. Really, they just have to be patient. And those of the region are in fact patient. They know well how to wait and harvest at just the right moment. The other harvests have also gone well, the scavas, for example, they haven't had the problems with parasites or many of the difficulties that they have often faced in the past. Think of the Suzuki fruit fly that punches holes through the skins of the scava grape causing a phenomenon where bacteria introduced into the grape leads to oxidation and the production of acetic acid. These days, alto adige, like Trentino, is another region that is banking on its white grape varieties. Just think that in Trentino, Chardonnay and Pino Grigio make up eighty percent of production, and just twenty percent is reserved for some to roll the go, some Marzomino, and very little cabernet or Merlo. So I'd have to say production is really focused on the two primary varieties. Piena Griglier is often associated with cooperatives, the so called Cantine Sochale. While much of the chardonnay produced is destined for sparkling wines, But now, the territory is embracing its destiny, so to speak, pivoting towards sparkling wine. These being early ripening grapes that generally avoided damage. The red wines meanwhile experienced some losses this year, They had to complete the Teroldago and Mars amino harvests very quickly as they were starting to go bad. Not all of the grape cohorts matured satisfactory, and cabernet was still being harvests up until a couple of days ago. Here too, patience is needed because Cabinet is another variety that can remain on the vine and can resist imperfect conditions. So let's say in summary that Trentino fed well with two very important great varieties, Chardonay and Pina Grigio, While remembering that much of the chardonnay will go towards the production of sparkling wines. And what about Calabrio? Well, Calabrio always does well. I've gotta say it has the ideal climate. Here, they have a Turonian coast and an Ionian coast. The Aionian side is characterized by the Sheroko Winds, whilst the Turonian side has the Lemetsia Terame on consensus of weather patterns. In any case, Calabrio, they didn't have major issues this year. Really is just such a favorable climate. They never have excessive rains, problems with rot. The territory enjoys such great qualities for Viticulture. And oftentimes, they manage to dodge the most climate related problems. Have we covered all the regions? Did we already mention friuli? Here again, friuli started out well with their early ripening grapes. Then as the season progressed and they moved on to those that are slower to mature, such as frijolano or the red varieties, This is where we started to observe problems with the refoscos. Because after all, this region officially makes up part of the plains area. Maybe not so much around Colio or the Eastern Hills that Colly orientale, and, you know, ribola is sensitive as a variety. Though it's a heartier when grown in the soils termed ponker composed of alternating bands of Marl and sandstone, Here, the plants grow less vigorously, and the resultant bunches are more resistant. But there are excessive tracts of very high production, Ebola cultivation, even in the plain areas, and these parts they had to harvest very hastily to keep the product from going bad. These have to be essentially grapes destined for the production of spumante wines. Have we left anyone out? Don't think so. So did we cover the whole peninsula? So something like that, a giro d'italia back and forth. Are we sure we didn't leave out Melissa? Well, Meliza is very near to Campania and basilicata. Maybe it's a bit more continental in terms of climate. It's not really that different. Okay. Just one more question if you'll allow. After somewhat difficult tier, what do the one growers have to do, to prepare their vines for the next year? Unfortunately, oftentimes, we see that compacted soils result from heavy machines and tools moving around the fields after rain when the soil is damp. This tends to damage to some degree the soil structure. So it's prudent to wait for the soils to dry out and then they need to be worked to a certain depth so that the winter and spring rains are able to sink in without just running off. Because if we leave the tire tracks and combacted paths, water doesn't infiltrate into the ground, but runs off and we start to see erosion. This is the first item. Then, of course, we have to consider fertilizing. This is particularly true in a year, such as the current one where we have had heavy rains that wash the nutrients away from the upper layers of the soil. So we have to supplement the soil surface with more fertilizer. Naturally pruning is another important task. Very likely, the plants are stressed in terms of their starch reserves because with elevated production, If the vegetative growth of the plant has struggled to keep pace and support complete fruit maturation, it probably makes sense to reduce the vines bud load. Ideally, this will help alleviate some of the production burden for the next year. So we're done then. Yes. Now we leave the work to the farmers and winemakers and theologists. We may be wrapping up, but they're just getting started. Okay. I'd like to thank Professor Shenza for this tour around Italy and what basically turned out to be a a twenty twenty great harvest report. Thank you for this formation you've shared. It's been very interesting, and it's always a great pleasure to chat with you. Thanks, Monty. Until next time. Thank you. Chow. Ciao. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple podcasts, Himalaya FM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, This is my unit. I'm not a millionaire. Come on.